10/29 Ming + 1 = 12.6 PMPS = 86 or 4.8 (AMPS = 142, +2 = 50) reduced to 5u in PM with MC meal

You read my mind! I've been wondering what karo is but always just never took the initiative to find out. Thanks

I think I'll make another tab for his feedings just so it isn't all so crowded in the main SS.

And here's a photo of the guy that is driving me insane:



He is currently grooming himself. He also twitches all four paws and mouth sometimes when he sleeps. I'm assuming he's just dreaming. It scares me because I think it's a SEIZURE! When I first saw him do it, I looked up so many videos of cats having seizures which scared me even more.

Wow, 2 pages already. I talk too much.

 

hmm.. no accounting for taste , of course, and you do as is most convenient
but I'd rather you have entered foods either in the Remarks or right there in the cell (along with the BG reading). For some time, at least.
If you open Ducia's SS and scroll down to April 2018 - that's how it looks. It was useful for me back then.
Sorry about Karo confusion. It helps w/ hypo but such a toxic substance, imho.

 

Ok, yeah you're right. It'll be faster and easier to look. I'll keep everything in the main SS.

 

You have very lovely boy!
After Ducia's Hypo I was soooo paranoid about seizures and hypos
All turned out to be imagined, but boy, didn't it give me the gray hair?
You'll get used to it with time.

 

One housekeeping note, could you keep the main subject line updated with the latest test data. That way, at a glance, we know that Ming isn't in immediate danger. It's possible the high carbs will wear off - HC/honey combo can take a couple hours to wear off, and the numbers may come down again. Or not.

 

Ok! I hope it wears off a little so he's flat but not too much that he's low again. I shall quote Mulan's grandma to Ming: "An apple for serenity, a pendant for balance.... beads of JAADDE for beaauuty!"

Thanks *tear* I need to stop freaking out at 80. Seeing it converted to US is less scary but in world - 3 seems AWFULLY close to 1!!!!

 

225 or 12.5 at +4.5

Bounce??

I feel ok to wait to test him at +6. Yeah?

 

Yup, bounce. Feel free to go 2 or 3 hours without testing.

If you look at the other subject lines, it's good to keep key data there, such as preshot number and his lower numbers.

 

Looks a lot like it.

make it at +7 if times allows.

 

Alright. See ya'll at +7!

 

@Crista & Ming

So, your new PS time is 8:30 PST, right?
If he is high and you need to go back to your previous shot time then you can give the shot 30 min earlier - it might "increase" the dose a little, good for high BG.

What is your new dose is best talked over with @Wendy&Neko .

I'll stop by tonight to see how are you doing.
Well done both of you!

 

I might have to test around +7.5 though because I need to pick up my sister.

And yes, new shot time would be 830 PM.

 

As usual, I thought of another question: Ming's been on steroids for a week now. If the steroids are affecting his numbers, will we have seen it already at play? Or will it suddenly kick diabetes' butt sometime in the future and throw us all into havoc?

Edit: Also, I hope to one day marry a man that makes lots of money and I can work from home and be a full time cat-mom. These are my thoughts as I think about my work week. Sigh... I just hope we can find a nice SAFE dose before I need to work days again. It sucks because I work 11 hours plus commute. Also a safe dose before I go on vacation for a WHOLE month. I'm going to need to get my sister super involved in all of this while I'm away. OKAY. I'm gonna stop thinking so much now. Back to work (I also do some photography work at home but it's just not enough to make a living.)

 

any other BG reads ?

 

I’m out but will be home within the half hour

 

6.7 or 121 at + 7.25

 

Do you think we can do a conservative dose? I’m just concerned that when I go to work tomorrow, something might happen.

 

I read the TR and how to handle lows. But my mom and my sister are now going to have to give him his shot when I'm at work tomorrow night and other times. What's the protocol with Lantus?

Can they do chicken shots or half dose shots like PZI? They aren't able to monitor him like I would be able to because of school and other commitments.

 

lets see how the rest of the cycle plays out.

 

Ok. I'll do a test in another hour.

 

well well well
BRB

 

I guess he likes being at 121 because he woke up and is now rummaging through my clothes.

I fed him a LC snack (freeze dried raw)

 

I think that 121 you just took is your +9, not +7.

Am I wrong?

If not there is still some time to take tests and then decide.
I understand how worrisome that is but I am glad to see another Blue #.

 

Oops! It's my +8. I did it around 4:45pm

 

Lantus is a different animal.
I'm thinking folks who use a pet sitter ( @Sienne and Gabby (GA) comes to mind ) may have a workable strategy like establishing a 'no shoot' number and/or a slightly lower dose for the entire range of time you can't be available. I myself never had a pet-sitter manage BKs insulin....(they would have taken one look at his doses and schedule and run from the house as fast as possible)

The thing is he has not yet settled on a dose...and keeping the ketones at bay is a real concern.

 

from your actual shot time this AM at 8"30AM?

I hope I won't confuse you but do you count +8 since your actual shot time this am at 8:30?
Or since 7am, that would have been your shot time WO stalling?
(Sorry, not good with numbers)
@Crista & Ming

 

He's rising. 7.8 or 140 after technically 40 mins. I just wanted to do the test at the half hour mark.

UHH it's okay. I suck at numbers too.

This is how I usually count:
AMPS = 830
1: 930
2: 1030
3: 1130
4: 1230
5: 130
6: 230
7: 330
8: 430
9: 530 (now)

Is that how to do it? Cuz that's what I've been doing.

 

The clock always starts when the shot is given.

 

You got it

 

yes, that right.

 

right..
I saw the 121 only a few minutes ago and thought it was taken just now. That's why I got confused.
Some more , perhaps

 

I'm wondering if what we are seeing might be the high carb hangover wearing off , and if he might be heading for a bounce...

@Wendy&Neko - thoughts?

 

I laughed so hard when I saw that in Black Kitty's Tribute video

 

It's hanging in my kitchen

Did you get a ketone reading today?

 

No, I either missed him going to the bathroom or he hasn't gone yet.

 

Yep, I missed it. He should go again some time tonight.

 

you don't think it could be food bump from 1 oz raw?

 

Full party at Ming's SS! lol

 

Could be.

 

6.3 or 113 @ +10

I guess it was a food spike. Interesting.....

 

Interesting indeed...
I've tugged on a few peoples sleeves for input.
Ive got to go feed my cottage kitties - I'll be back in about .5 hour

 

very nice!
make sure you record all of the foods w/ time & amounts. Unless he decides to bounce later on you maybe busy testing the next cycle.
And I think that 113 is another point in favor of Ming being late nadir cat.

 

I also gave his cerenia pill if that makes a difference. In a pill pocket. I shall record that too.

 

I never used myself but I've heard that some pil pocket contain some additive that may raise the BG. I do not remember which brand.
Do record in the Remarks as well.
How is his appy today in general?
Do you think he'll be hungry by the next shot? less than 2 h away?

 

Greenies pill pockets chicken flavour.

I think he'll eat. Not sure HOW much. I feel like he won't eat all of his food within the hour but will eventually within 2-3 hours.

 

The kitty pill pockets contain corn syrup as an ingredient. The dog allergy free duck and pea are more FD friendly.

I see two explanations for today’s numbers. But I have some question about the SS first. In some of the first few cell this morning you have a reading followed by @2.5. What does that mean? To me it means at 2.5 hours after the shot but that can’t be right.

 

Ah god. sorry lol. I mean half hour after the hour it's taken. I'll fix it now.

 

I guess I can feed Ming pill pockets next time haha!

 

NN just texted me this but I haven't shown her Ming's numbers since he was at 225 in the morning: "Im wondering if... and yeah thus far my suggestions have been ****... if when hes hi u give him 4-5 and when hes under 14 give him 1-2 so hes still riding some of his hi dose but will keep his BGs kinda controlled??"

 

Oh, I'm gonna give him his pred with his pill pocket.

Hey... that explains this morning... why he was higher for a little bit after 7 am. I gave his pred at 7 and then 45 mins later, he was a bit higher. then back down

 

83 or 4.6 at +11..........

I don't understand anything right now. The 1-2 units sound nice.

 

let's wait to hear from Wendy or Sandy
I don't think reducing THAT much is good idea due to DKA...

 

would be able to take another test in 30 min without any food?

 

Yes, I can.

I'm getting so... anxious. I want to cry.

I'm also worried about tomorrow night. But who knows, I had such a bad night with Ming on Saturday but it was pretty nice and steady on Sunday. Then today... sigh. Worst case scenario for tomorrow night: I bring Ming with me to work. It'll stress him out but at least I can watch him.

 

don't .... it's good and safe number and the problem at hand is to figure out how to reduce.
The Wise Ones will help with that. There is nothing dangerous at the moment, honestly!

 

What’s the carb % of the LC you use?

 

I know it's not dangerous. I think everything from the past 2 weeks is hitting me hard again. I'm just so frustrated that this is so complicated and every option I have has some risk to it.

 

...actually, ......if he can be near you in the facility that probably equipped with Dextrose Drip machine...... you might feel so much better if the dose remains relatively high such as right now...
imho casts a different light a little.

 

The Primal Freeze Dried raw.. is 0? I looked at the food chart. It only has Beef and Salmon flavour.

And I don't see FF Classic Turkey and Giblets but they're 5-7% carbs

Probably but I'm the only one staffed and I don't know how to put in a IV catheter so.. lol. I would have to call a doctor but Ming's technically not a patient tomororw night so I don't know how it'll work.

 

And also why we went a bit higher after his pill pocket this afternoon. I get my pred compounded into a chicken flavour chew treat. Very easy to give.

I see two possible explanations for today’s numbers. Which by the way, were a gorgeous cycle so far. Option 1 is that he got a sugar high from the HC and it took longer than usual to wear off. Typical is two hours, it was still going up 2.5 hours later. Option 2 is that Ming is a late nadir cat with a late onset and he came back down later after onset. This one is hard to wrap your head around at first.

Remember, we dose based on nadir, not the preshot. If you are following Tight Regulation, he didn’t technically earn a reduction today. But given circumstances, I think it’s best. Tanya is right, you don’t want to reduce too much because of ketones. You just want to reduce to being the nadirs up a bit higher,

 

I seeeeeeee. I'm just stuck in PZI again, of course.

Okay. What dose do you suggest?

 

I guess you'll know better once I test in 15 minutes but he also had a pill pocket so that number might be the pill pocket talking.

 

4.4 or 79 at +11.5

Do you think he'll drop to 2.8 again? Should I feed him a little bit of HC food with his regular meal?

 

Also, I guess I'm stalling again..??? lol His shot time is in half an hour.

 

Hang on, Sandy and I are discussing options. How long until shot time now?

 

Cross posted.

 

Half an hour

 

he won't drop because you are there and you will test and feed and prevent that from happening.
4.4 is ok, safe.

Hang on for a little while - I hope someone will chime in soon.(My PC freezes as I type ).

 

Thank you T_T THIS is now the lowest I might shoot lol

And that's annoying that it freezes!!!

 

Technically PMPS = 4.8 or 86

 

I dont know if you recall the recipe for ketone formation I mentioned on Saturday...
not enough calories + not enough insulin + infection/systemic inflammation/stress
There is a delicate balance that needs to be maintained until a ketone prone kitty is out of the woods.
In order to maintain an insulin dose that will metabolize enough food to prevent ketones from forming, the extra insulin may need to be offset with food that is higher carb. Something maybe in the 6-12% range.

How do you feel about bringing the dose down to 5u while simultaneously kicking the carb content up?

 

I haven't done anything. I'm assuming we need to stall..

 

Sorry, cross posted. When is a ketone kitty out of the woods? He hasn't had ketones since the 20th.

I feel.. scared still just because he's so low right now. But as I'm typing this, I understand I'll be giving him something more carby so his 4.8/86 reading will go up after I feed him. So a little bit okay with it? I only have the 20% carb FF gravy cans that are high in carbs.

 

I used to use it all the time - does awesome job bringing the BG up quickly.
Use the gravy part only.
Reserve meat and gravy for very stubborn low BG - IF you have them.
ETA: mixing equal parts of gravy 20% and LC solid food would make the total carbs count closer to the range Sandy posted above - 6-12%. @Sandy and Black Kitty @Crista & Ming

 

Do you feed on a schedule?

If you have the 5-7% some 22% can be mixed in to boost the carbs up (I'm not sure of proportions)

 

Not really. Just for sure I will feed when it's shot time and then randomly in between whenever he's hungry. But at night, he doesn't really ask for food.

 

What if I did 4.5 u lol. I know it's small.. but... I kind of want to sleep tonight even though I know I probably can't.

 

keep in mind the results of a reduction this cycle will likely not affect this cycle (the 6u depot will see to that) but rather its more likely to affect tomorrows cycles. Know what I mean?

 

He's at 110 right now. Have not fed.

Okay. I'll try the higher carb food. I'll mix about 20% of gravy FF with normal classic FF. And give 5 units.

Oh. So because we shot late this morning so it was sort of like a reduction, that's why he didn't go to 2.8 / 50?

 

Same drill as this morning. Get a +1 and a +2.

 

don't make his portions too big - he may need his appy for a while tonight.
Good luck with with the decrease, I hope works well for Ming.

 

That IMHO is way too close for comfort, particularly since you are still trying to find a dose you can shoot consistently for a couple days. It seems when a kitty develops ketones to the point of DKA, they are vulnerable to a recurrence.

 

Why do I always think I did a furshot... I keep sniffing the spot and I smell Lantus. Is that normal

Ugh..

 

Another question: If I took him to work tomorrow night, how much will it screw with his doses?

I think I just might do it. I just don’t feel comfortable with my family taking the reigns already.

 

add FS? to the unit column -it'll help evaluate this new dose later on.
Do not attempt second shot .

 

When you stall, assuming the previous shot has worn off, the depot starts draining in an attempt to restore equilibrium and keep things smooth.

It looks to me like he hit 50 at AM+2...

Good luck tonight. You have control. Take good notes-they will be very valuable as you continue on your quest to find the right dose for Ming.

I'll say goodnight (I'm on the east coast) Wendy will keep an eye on you for a while.
I do have terrible insomnia so I may pop back in...

 

Good night @Sandy and Black Kitty . Thank you @Wendy&Neko for checking in with me tonight. Thank you @Tanya and Ducia for being here all day and for the emotional support. And thank you all for putting up with me. I’m such a wreck.

I hope Ming stays nice and safe tonight.

Since the 5 units is gonna affect his nadir later. I should wake up around 6 am to check him, right?

 

@Crista & Ming
can you please take +1 and then +2?
This dose is still 6U depot talking.
Better make sure he is safe.

 

High probably because of the food. 12.6 or 227 at +1

 

At least he’s not dropping. The next test will be telling.

 

not too high...
what did feed - LC +gravy mix? How much?
take another test in 1 hour. I'll check in to see.

if higher - feed some LC and have some sleep. Probably a bounce.

I would take +9. What are your thoughts, @Wendy&Neko ?

 

About 80% FF turkey and giblets. And then 20% of the gravy from this morning. I tried to only get mostly gravy but... not very successful. I think next time maybe I’ll put water in it so it’s easier. I didn’t think about it until after haha.

I feel better.

Saturday night, I was beside myself looking at those black numbers. And today I’m panicking over the blues and greens before the shot.

Hindsight is really 20/20. I sat down with my mom in the last hour and just talked to her and explained everything which helped me understand things more. I really need to knock PZI out of my head.

 

Also he suddenly has a lot of energy.... god this cat. I’ve been through some traumatic things this year and it was horrible (I’m okay now) but this hurts/distresses me even more and it’s not even happening to ME. It’s happening to HIM!!!

Sigh. Sorry and thank you again for putting up with me everyone

 

Now that I’m less of a hot mess...

Is it because he didn’t go through 6 cycles?

If he went through two more cycles, would he have learned not to go so low?

 

If following TR with a newly diagnosed cat, a reduction is earned either by going below 50, or a week in normal numbers. It’s possible the 6.0 unit depot would build more and he would have earned a reduction, or he could have just bounced for those two cycles. Guessing what a cat would do is not easy.

 

Oh I seeeeee. Would not the stalling mess that up as well?

 

Stalling does have some impact too. A short stall is fine. You can think of 18 hour cycles as extreme cases of stalling.

 

+2 is 18.7 or 337.

Is this the food talking?

I’m assuming since his nadir is later... his onset might be later??

I really hope I shot him lol

I wonder if he’s not used to being so low because he’s been more energetic than he’s been all day.

 

Another thing I learned: less of the FF gravy or at least just the gravy lol. Maybe 10% next time.