2/12 Tasha's PMPS 171 +3=72 +8=90 (fat 0)

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Linda and Tasha

Linda and Tasha

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I will be home to check today. Hopefully all will continue to go well. How long do you need to support the pancreas with insulin and good/low numbers before going OTJ? Is there any rule of thumb in regards to being successfully in remission on this?
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 Questin about OTJ in future.

I believe this is mentioned in the (ETA) "Phase 4: Reducing the dose" and "remission" section of the Tilly's protocol which we follow here in the Lantus forum:

http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

hope that helps, but others will be along to give you some more feedback thru the day, in the meantime, yes, getting more spot checks will help determining the future steps.

have a good day!
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 Question about OTJ in future.

Linda..Dont worry so much about going OTJ--Having a well cat should be your major concern right now--Read the stickys suggested. but
Look at your Whole cat! 5 P's and eating well, being happy! That's what we want here--
If OTJ comes, It's a great gift.
Many of us here may never attain that, but we have made our cats well again and acting like they did before dx..
I hope with all my heart that Tasha goes into remission, but take it one day at a time..It is a process!
You are doing great!
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34

just took +2 and Tasha is 34 (only on.1 unit) wouldn't eat HC gave karo and waiting 15 mins to check again
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 Question about OTJ in future.

Linda:

Let me suggest that you put "+2=34 OTJ Question" in your subject line. Jill, one of the most experienced people here, has been on and off the Board. (I think Carolyn has been around, too.) They may suggest the infamous, "fat 0" dose (pretty much one drop of insulin), but I think that given where Tasha's dose is, it would be helpful is an experienced person could give you some input. The way your subject line reads, you probably won't get all that many people responding since it seems rather theoretical. Given the +2 number, it would appear you are looking for a more practical reply.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 Question about OTJ in future.

Sienne and Gabby said:
Linda:

Let me suggest that you put "+2=34 OTJ Question" in your subject line. Jill, one of the most experienced people here, has been on and off the Board. (I think Carolyn has been around, too.) They may suggest the infamous, "fat 0" dose (pretty much one drop of insulin), but I think that given where Tasha's dose is, it would be helpful is an experienced person could give you some input. The way your subject line reads, you probably won't get all that many people responding since it seems rather theoretical. Given the +2 number, it would appear you are looking for a more practical reply.
Click to expand...

WIll do, just didn't have the time under the circumstances. her 15 min check 72 :smile:
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

What to do for PM Shot she is only getting .1 as it is?? I didn't think she was ready to go OTJ but a 34 at +2!!! (Gave Karo nd waited 15 mins. BG 72) feed LC.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

Jojo always said you couldn't hypo on a .1u dose.

Most of the kitties I've seen go OTJ usually take .1u for 5-14 days.
Miriam? muses often that maybe she didn't give long enough at the .1u and that's why remission didn't last.

Heather had a 42 at +2 with Jasper and just rode it out. Tasha could be one of those kitties that is going to sit n the 30's/40's after food.
The one thing I have noted is you tend to have higher preshots than most when considering coming off TJ.

Did Tasha seem lethargic or anything when you tested her at +2?
Are you around to monitor her in the first few hours after insulin for the next few days?
These will all feed into you making a decision.

If you want to try a trial, it's just that her preshots are that tad on the high side.
See what others think.
As Sienne said you could try the fat0.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

kate and lucky said:
Jojo always said you couldn't hypo on a .1u dose.

The one thing I have noted is you tend to have higher preshots than most when considering coming off TJ.

Did Tasha seem lethargic or anything when you tested her at +2?
Are you around to monitor her in the first few hours after insulin for the next few days?
These will all feed into you making a decision.

If you want to try a trial, it's just that her preshots are that tad on the high side.
See what others think.
As Sienne said you could try the fat0.
Click to expand...
She was asleep in the sun when I took her bg. She fought me when I tried to give Karo. Then ran away when i tried to catch her for the 15 check. Maybe a touch lethargic, but hard to tell. No other symptoms.

Tasha is a grazer and never eats very much. She does tend to eat before the pre shots in the PM but not this morning or last. I took food away at 8AM (what was left) and fed her after her shot at 10 AM. She went to the food and ate at 10, but not a lot.
She is such a picky eater that if I with hold food, she just wont eat later.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

In my own experience, it isn't something u wanna rush, like Kate said, the preshot numbers are a bit high.

u wanna make sure Tasha has the best chance to go in remission.

Looks like Tasha is coming back up, if u could remove the 911, you will still have eyes on u today, watching the numbers.

We'll see how the numbers go thru the rest of the cycle, but yeah, that 34 does earn her a decrease. Hang in there, others will come by thru the day.
just keep doing what you're doing.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

I appreciate the if she can't eat on her own terms :roll: :lol:

Worth noting things like that if it's a feature.

I've been trying to find a definitive answer other than what Jojo has said in various threads over time about kitties not hypo'ing on .1u.
I may go and see what I can drum up on FB :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

I don't know how much more I can decrease. It is already at the 0 line for .1
I don't feel good about giving her a shot this evening. Maybe her pre shots were higher from a rebound? I may just skip the evening shot and resume in the morning. I will see how the numbers go. and how she eats. Yesterday she ate a lot for her. A full 5.5 oz can of wet food and 2 tiny shrimp. I am lucky if I can get 2/3 of a can (5.5oz) in her a day.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

honestly, see how the day goes, and post your numbers, you will get your answers soon enough.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

Linda & Tasha said:
Maybe her pre shots were higher from a rebound?
Click to expand...

If you think the numbers represent rebound then you've answered your own question about whether Tasha is ready for an OTJ trial. Why not take a look at the SS of the kitties that are currently undergoing an OTJ trial. I think you will see a much flatter green cycle with green, or very low blue, pre-shot values. It may be that for Tasha, you need to use the version of the protocol that recommends 3 below 50 BGs to earn a decrease -- or, in Tasha's case, an OTJ trial. The yellow at last night's PMPS also suggests that maybe she's not yet ready.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

Sienne and Gabby said:
Linda & Tasha said:
Maybe her pre shots were higher from a rebound?
Click to expand...

If you think the numbers represent rebound then you've answered your own question about whether Tasha is ready for an OTJ trial. Why not take a look at the SS of the kitties that are currently undergoing an OTJ trial. I think you will see a much flatter green cycle with green, or very low blue, pre-shot values. It may be that for Tasha, you need to use the version of the protocol that recommends 3 below 50 BGs to earn a decrease -- or, in Tasha's case, an OTJ trial. The yellow at last night's PMPS also suggests that maybe she's not yet ready.
Click to expand...
I am not sure what caused it (218). According to the protocol it says any number in the 30s and reduce dose. That 34 is a low 30s. It also said numbers could be as high as 220. I am just not sure how to proceed. She may have eaten before the bg. That would cause a rise in a non diabetic. If you read my other remarks you can see Tasha is a problem eater and I let her graze. Perhaps she can be controlled by diet alone. I have no clue. I would not feel so concerned if she dipped into the 40s, but the low 30s are scary.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

I'm a tad reticent to say go for an OTJ trial, but ultimately Tasha is yours and it's your decision Linda.

I have had it confirmed that Jojo has said she has never seen a symptomatic hypo with Lantus or Lev.

I wonder if there's anyway you can get Tasha to eat something between 30mins and +1-to slow the drop. Your getting the right kind of numbers after +2/3 but it's the preshots that as I said earlier look too high for a trial.

You've still got 8-9 hours? Ithink till PMPS.Others may well have chimed in by then.

You've done an awesome job in such a short time. :mrgreen:

pa-remember the 20% variance on meters
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

I wish I could control when she eats. I wait to feed her after her morning shot and she is anxious to eat but eats maybe a teaspoon full or 2 at the very most. Even when she ate HC food before being dxd, she never was excited by any foods. She is much less enthusiastic now. If Tasha's AM bg was in the green instead of the blues, I could just imagine how low she would go in 2 hours if she tanks to a 34 from a 128.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

Tasha is a tough one to figure out. Any number in the 30's is a reduction number. Maybe the preshot numbers could be higher because there is too much insulin?
I do think that I took Putty off insulin too soon because I was afraid to shoot low.......but his low numbers were in the 70's and 80's not 30's. I also went from .5u to to two shots of 0.1u to OTJ which was not long enough.....but again Putty's numbers were much higher.

Did Tasha eat before or after her shot this morning?
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72

hi linda. nice catch this morning!
sooooooo, what should we do? we have a newly diagnosed kitty dropping to 34 on 0.1 unit. it doesn't "look" like tasha is ready for an OTJ trial, but dropping to 34 is too low to continue shooting the same dose. normally, we would resort to using food manipulation as a tool in a case like this, but from what you've said... it doesn't sound like tasha would cooperate.

as i see it there are a couple of options... none the norm, but tasha's not responding like what we're used to seeing:

1. start an otj trial either tonight (if she doesn't bounce to the moon) or tomorrow morning and hope for the best. if she can't handle things on her own, we'll know soon enough.

2. try shooting a "fat zero", which is basically shooting a single drop. it would take some practice, but many here have learned to draw the dose.

i wouldn't make a decision until seeing how the day plays out.
fwiw, just my thoughts...
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34!!! karo +15=72 +4=72

Jill, those were pretty close to my thoughts too. However I think this morning she got a fat 0. It was right on the line kind of. No clear showing but right on the edge.
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34 (karo) +4=72 +7=126 +10=99

PMPS is a couple of hours away although it looks like Tasha is coming down. JIll did give you a couple of options......how about if you test Tasha 15 minutes before her regular shot time and post for some help. :mrgreen:
 
Re: 2/12 Tasha's AMPS=128 +2=34 +4=72 +7=126 +10=99 PMPS 171

Looked like a nice pm cycle.
I'm intrigued as to what her amps will be. :-D
 
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