2/28 Buddha +9 42 to snack or not to snack

Hey, TID'ers out there, set up a summer camp for nonregulated diabetic cats and I'll send you Buddha.

 

On Lantus they say to give a small amount of low carb food (1 Tb). Then Buddha will still be hungry if you have to give more later. Are you going to check again in a half hour?

 

Buddha!! Stop screwing with your Mama!! That's one heck of a roller coaster drop from 417 to 42!! Holy mackerel! When Ari gets that low I tend to become Mama with the plate of food following around to wherever she decides to sleep. She wakes up and there's food, she finds a new spot, wakes up and there's food.

 

It was a 42 at +9, so I wasn't terribly concerned (like I would at +6 or like I would have been a few months ago). At +12 he's at 91. He had a small snack at +9, when I also left the house. That's when he usually gives me the low numbers; I check because I am about to walk through the door and won't be home to monitor.

Buddha has been acting pretty happy and healthy lately, though you might not think that from his rainbow colors on his ss. I have caught him in the litter box at least every few days or so, and never a trace a ketones despite the sometimes HI bg. (Oh, please no jinx)

He's purring for his dinner now. Guess I'll feed him and see where he goes from 91. Getting pretty low on test strips, so I'll probably be really conservative on his dose tonight.

I'm really at a loss what to do. Some of you have been so successful with your kitties, OTJ in just a few weeks, tightly regulated with TID shooting and extra vigilance, or just keeping your diabetic alive year after year. I just keep plugging at it. I suppose I should go back to 1u and go slow and see if I can find that magic amount of juice, but I hate to step back that far.

I know a few have struggled with PZI/ProZinc. Some have switched to the Ls. Some have said they were frustrated and then disappeared. Where do they go?

 

LOL Hope that is too funny! Seriously made me laugh there. You have to wonder what goes through Ari's head at those times! "Wow! the food fairy came again! I like her!"

 

Ele struggled for quite some time with PZI and switched recently. I haven't heard the latest on Blackie... any word?? :smile: And of course Sarah switch before that and I assume Buzz is doing well?

Molly was having a very difficult time and I'm not sure what she decided. Meatballs SS ended on 3/27... :? I hope Meatball is ok. I can't remember any others right now.

My only caution about another insulin would be if Buddha had a history of keytones? If not then I would expect things to go well with one of the Ls. You don't seem to be getting traction with PZI - and I'm not aware of your stich in full but on the face of it *I* would be thinking about the potential of other insulins.

 

donna you have to wonder where he was at +6 if he gave you that +9 #. you may have a rebound # on your hands in the morning. obviously he has some pancreatic action. you should shoot very conservatively on a rebound # (if you get one)

 

yikes,,,just looked at your ss. that Jan. 1st where he went down to 21, i think that was your rebound # after that.

 

+13 is 143. Wish I knew what to shoot him now, before I turn my back and he's zoomed in the 400s again.

 

Those are some whacked numbers! nailbite_smile I'd need Xanax if Buddha were my kitty. :lol:

Looks to me like it may be time for a serious decrease in dose and a full 12+ hour curve with about 5 glucose tests in that time frame to really see what is happening. I would wait a few cycles to see where Buddha is after decreasing in order to rule out any chance of rebound numbers showing up in the curve, tho. That would all depend on his susceptibility to ketones as well. If you're sure you aren't overshooting after the curve, then I may try another insulin type.

Good luck - I'll be peaking in at your SS.

 

215 at +14 and I'm down to 3 or 4 test strips. Ebay has let me down this time, I ordered over a week ago when I opened my last bottle of 50. No all night pharmacies within an hour's drive.

I just hate to lose momentum. I did try to decrease back to 1u a couple of months ago, but Buddha's symptoms came back and I just couldn't stomach it.

I'm going with a .... 1.4u didn't kill him last night. Ha. But that 417 this morning could have been rebound. Or not enough insulin. Ha.

Going with .... 1.2u. What have I got to lose?

 

Last time I used 'Buy Wholesale Prices' store through Amazon.com and had my strips in 2 or 3 days - no shipping charge.

 

Donna, I just looked at your profile again and saw DKA. I searched it before for "ketone" and word search did not find anything. That will teach me to go the fast route! I did look back and seems Molly did decide to stick with PZI [Meatball had keytone issues too]. Again, I haven't followed that super closely so I'm probably not filled in on your details - so not sure the roll keytones may be any recurrent issue.

 

Chickened out when I was drawing insulin and went with 1u.

Also, am back to the U100 syringes that are funky. The company had sent me a replacement box and there were great! Now I've started using another box of the same lot number as the old defective box. Found another gimpy syringe (the needle was not ... hard to describe, not straight. Looked at it magnified and it looked like it had been shredded almost.) So a call back to those people tomorrow too.

Gator, would consider changing insulins, if I had vet support. I'm in a little town (if you follow football, I live in the town where big bad boys come to bang unwilling coeds in bar bathrooms. Shhhhhh, don't say it outloud.)

 

Looking at Buddha's SS. To me.. it looks like he's been getting too much insulin. Definitely decrease in dose. I was going to suggest 1.0U for the next few cycles, but I see you've given 1.2U. See what numbers look like and maybe stick(if you can) with what works for the mean time.. at least a few cycles. I just find that when I switched back and forth my doses.. it gave me wacky numbers b/c Pru's system couldn't adjust. Another thing to maybe keep in mind are the shoot times. Are they always 12/12? I've seen a pattern with Pru if I had to shoot around somewhere between 8 & 10 am, her numbers were higher. This could be b/c of the Dawn Phenomenon Effect.

 

I'm pretty sure the Lantus if not the Lev folks have done a pretty good job putting together selling your vet on L&L literature? I wish I had some more creative input for you. Maybe if you post over in Lantus they might be able to guide you to the right info or come up with some more creative thinking for you. There ARE studies that have been done on Lantus with great results. Ultimately, if you are stuck and your only vet option may be antagonized... I can identify fully with felling beholden to a certain vet and not wanting to push things too far.

 

Hi Donna,
It looks like the high numbers could be rebound from the low numbers, so I agree that 2 is too much. I don't know how much too much though. From your ss it looks like it's somewhere between 1.5 & 2. I was never one to use a sliding scale like you're doing, so I'm not sure.

Just an update on Blackie's switch to L. We've been on L for for about 1.5 months now and Blackie still gets high numbers, but I'm not sure I've found the right dose. We moved pretty quickly from 1 unit to 4.25 units (he was on +3 on PZI) and then back to 4, but we strictly followed the Lantus protocol. I'm kind of a left brained person and I like rules, so the protocol made me feel better. Blackie has also had some good numbers once we went over 4 units, but he also rebounds, which seems to be common with Lantus, at least in the beginning. This is all just my own observations.

Donna, I don't know if you should switch. I also live in a small town/city and I called about 5 vets before I found one that would prescribe L and he wouldn't prescribe Levimer. So I understand your dilemna there.

I wish you the best with Buddha. I know you love him and you are doing the best you can.

Ele

 

Steve -- thanks, I think I've seen my test strips cheap on Amazon too. What I've liked about Ebay is that I know the expiry dates of what I'm ordering. And usually I get them within a couple of days. But this time I ordered from someone clean across the country. Wasn't paying attention.

Ele -- thanks for the encouragement. I think I would like a set of rules to follow too. BTW, I've never had a cat live to 17 before. Blackie looks so young and handsome (if not too happy) in his party hat.

Michelle -- you knocked Pru's numbers down with TID shooting, I can bring Buddha's down with a single 2u shot. Ha. But once his bg is lower, how much will keep it low? I did go with 1u. I'm going to test now at +2 and then get some sleep. I like sleep too much to TID. Yawn.

Gator, if I was 100% for switching, I'd find a way. I think mostly that if I screw up ProZinc, I'd probably just screw up Lantus too. So what's the point.

Ugh. I'm tired. Time to stick the cat.

 

ECID. And they are different insulins. I would hardly look at yourself as a cause of Buddah's wacky numbers - I think that's more than a little unfair. Sometimes just a change of scenery can set the stage for success :smile: Anyway, I don't want you to feel I'm pressuring you or anything - I just wanted to raise the topic. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be.