2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, PMPS-210, +2-395

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carolynandlatte

carolynandlatte

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WOW! I seriously cannot believe this. :shock:
Nothing different with her food - type or amount.
Other than the affect of high numbers, she does not seem to have anything 'going on'...yet

Switched cartridge Thurs 2/4 pm cycle
Increased dose Friday 2/5 pm cycle (fattest 1.5, 1.75, skinny 2..whatever you want to call it...its more, and what would normally be the most logical step...now I wish I had increased it even more).

I am really at a loss and I feel bad for her that I cant figure out what to do.

Wuz hoping for a more postive, upbeat Saturday condo....hard when all you see, no matter what you do, is your cats numbers going UP, UP, UP. I know you are suppose to wait a few cycles for some action, but Latte is usually overly reactive in the first cycle on the smallest possible increases. This is not a normal reaction for her to go up despite it all. :sad:

She is not hungry and I didnt realize until I took her off my lap to give her shot that she had poop hanging from her butt! :? Well, no longer..it ended up in my lap.

last condo:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=5224
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401

Morning Carolyn...it's nice to see you ! Just stopping in for a ~O) and to chat.
You are doing so much and I have no ideas for you....but I am sending happy Saturday thoughts
to you and your girl...
Come on Latte...tell us why you are doing this sweetie...barely red but still not very pretty on you.... :YMHUG:
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, +2-315

Not her usual drop...though none of it has been usual the last week. Its both good and bad..
good- no BIG drop!
bad- is this insulin even working?! This is why I mentioned in my last condo, if all this is worth it. Her numbers were lower w/ no insulin (and on pred..and eating even more kibble) 6 months ago than they are now. Its like the longer she is on insulin, the worse she gets.

First successful ketone test. If I did it right...negative. Shouldnt be hard to get more. She is peeing a lot and none of it IN her box...all onto the peee pads. Ive gone through over 50 pads this week.
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, +2-315

(((Carolyn))). LL needs a group hug today, that's for sure. If she had that "cling-on", maybe she's a bit constipated, and that is affecting her BG?
Only you can know if it's worth it, but you love her, she loves you, and I think you still can have some good time together. I'm the worst one to give advice, as gloomy as I am this week, but treasure the good things, and try to let go of the bad feelings. :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, +2-315

I wonder if the tinkering with the dose from cycle to cycle is what's causing the jump in numbers?
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, +2-315

A magical poop is needed maybe!
I know what will fix that! Get a little kitty treadmill and get Latte up there and exercising!

Seriously. Look to the good, not the bad. Why? Because there are always going to be both, and never only one or the other.

Negative ketones? Awesome; add that to the good side.
Not reacting to the changes? Too bad for you; add that to the good side - Latte is being a good kitty and mucking with the bean's expectations.

It could be a combination of lots of things so just go with it and see where Latte leads you. I am sure she will let you know what she needs and wants.

With the change in dose comes adjustment, so with your changing up then down or tweaking, it could be that Latte has to adjust her shed and will be a bit slower at responding.

No matter what else, I try to stick to the dose for those 6 cycles and then make changes, unless someone spots something that requires a change sooner.

Who knows? Maybe she has just decided that the meals you are giving her are not to her liking today :smile:

If Latte seems to be kind of ok, then just watch and see if she finds those better numbers and appetite later on today.
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, +2-315

Gayle and Shadoe said:
No matter what else, I try to stick to the dose for those 6 cycles and then make changes, unless someone spots something that requires a change sooner.
Click to expand...

Help me understand...I've not been intimately involved in dosing for a couple of years since Winston passed, until meeting Carolyn last Sept. I've been learning a lot hanging in LL again after so long! The one thing I know for sure, and have been clearly shown upon my return, is that the protocols and research on FD treatment change quickly...it's actually really fabulous. I wish I knew then what I know now... so I really am trying to learn the new stuff.

I'm confused by the comment from Gayle, and Sienne also said "I wonder if the tinkering with the dose from cycle to cycle is what's causing the jump in numbers?" As I look at Latte's sheet, I see she kept the dose 7 cycles beofre she upped it last night. And from what I understand, at that type of micro changes you're talking a drop or so of insulin. How does holding the dose for 7 cycles and adding a drop cause her numbers to climb?
I totally get that the last time she added a drop, it seemed to show 2 shots later, and then she likely bounced from the green, but she reduced the dose and held it, so the bounce seems very likely to have cleared, so why would that increase back then cause this now? Or is the 'tinkering' because she didn't hold the higher dose longer after she hit the green?
confused_cat
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, +2-315

With her peeing outside the litter box and a lot more: could be that she has an (bladder) infection (again).

A vet also told me this:
"Diabetes can damage nerves in time...since you are hearing the bones in her pelvis grinding and the xrays have revealed the arthritis, this diagnosis is not in doubt. Her pain experience, however, may be complicated by tingling and sharp stabbing sensations in the feet and legs.
Bladder infection may be a "side effect" of the body's diabetic condition, but I wonder if at least some of her bladder leakage is related to nerve damage from the diabetes or arthritis in the spinal cord."

I've read that she also walks bad. Maybe it's not only arthritis but also neuropathy. You could give B12 for that.
Nerve damage is likely. And infection as well. And the last one give's rise to the bg's.

Just my 2cents.
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, PMPS-210

First- Latte's day! It's just one cycle, but I'm feeling a little hopeful. And, a big sense of relief to get her down, if even for a short time. I tested a lot...because I could! ;-)
amps-401
+2-315
+3-238
+4-218
+5.25-205
+6.25-175
+7.75-152
+10.5-177
pmps-210 (pred cycle, on our way up for the evening)

Next- Quick reply about UTI/bladder infection/peeing outside box. Latte is on pred, so she drinks a lot and retains some of it with an urgency to release very quickly sometimes. She has crf, so she drinks a lot. When she has high numbers, she drinks a lot. She cannot get in her box and turned around fast enough as soon as she realizes she needs to go. I put pee pads on the outside (instead of a mat). She pees from inside her box to the outside. It is very rare for this to happen when she has lower numbers. She is not leaking, dribbling, or straining to urinate. She has plenty of it! At the very moment I am not feeling she has the usual symptoms of a UTI/bladder infection.

Regarding doses- Im not justifying the tinkering or dose hoping as right or wrong. Just wanting to explain my reasoning behind it...Maybe someone can point out my faulty thinking so I dont make a mistake again...or maybe there is something to be had here, that can be worked with.

I increased to an extra fat 1.5 on 1/21. I had asked for feedback on whether or not I could just bring it up the next morning (sooner than 6 cycles) to the ful 1.75, and it was suggested I could.

1/22- I increased to 1.75 and she earned a decrease. I was not sure what to give...the old 1.5 dose or the fatter 1.5 that I had given the night before for her pm shot. I played it safe with her old 1.5 dose that she had been on forever. That dose was obviously not working..thus the increase that didnt stick. But there was room inbetween her regular 1.5 dose and the 1.75 - so that is where I put her the next a.m.

I did ask for feedback on this in a condo a week ago. I did not get a response one way or another. Here is the link:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4596

There are two times when I tried a staggering dose. I did not continue the second night because she was refusing food for a good portion of the day and well past her p.m. shot. I resumed the third night, with the intention of actually raising it accross the board...but she vomited that a.m. and I was to be gone all day. Not an ideal cycle to start a full increase. At that point I decided to abort the entire mission, let her clear the bounce she was getting in the a.m. from the increased pm dose, and get her tummy settled. As I saw she continued to stay high, I tried to change cartridges with little results, thus the increase today...the one I wanted to do early in the week.

I guess thats all I can really say about it. I felt like I had to try something different, because what I was doing didnt seem to be working. I didnt get any noodles thrown at me, or resounding NOOOO's! So, I figured might as well give it a shot.
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, PMPS-210

hi carolyn. just wanted to stop by to say hi. latte is not the textbook case as far as diabetes goes. you're juggling several issues and trying to find whatever works best for latte... and doing an awesome job at it!
:YMHUG:
 
Hi Jill,
Thanks! I just wish I felt like i was doing a good job...with the FD, anyway.
Do you know of anyone on the board or beyond who might be able to assist us with creative/safe ways of approaching her FD?
 
Re: 2/6 Latte AMPS- 401, PMPS-210, +2-395 Hey, Jill?

I hope you don't think I was being critical of the tinkering with dose. I know you are experimenting and it may be a reasoned way of addressing Latte's BG levels in light of all of the other medical problems. I was raising it as a possibility in response to your question. What I do wonder, though, is if the dose shifts will have the desired effect due to shed and overlap. Lantus doesn't give instantaneous results and I think there are times that you are understandably worried and are looking to address a dose issue with the hope that the response will be within that cycle.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
I hope you don't think I was being critical of the tinkering with dose.
Click to expand...
No, not really feeling like you were being critical. Well, okay... I felt a little bad at first, but Im also ultra sensitive right now. :? Im pretty good at stepping back and trying to understand the intent behind someone's comments. I know you meant no harm, and it was likely just an observation - no more, no less. It's one that Ive kicked myself many times in the last few days over whether its possible or not that MY actions of tinkering with her dose did this to her. Seeing it in writing just made me want to kick myself upside the head one more time! :roll: (is that actually possible :lol: ) I was also a little afraid it might open a can of worms in my condo, w/o folks understanding WHY I was doing what I was. I do think Amy has a good point though...how could it be affecting her so many cycles down the line?

Mostly why I wrote out what I did is so people can hear my rationale. Not everyone reading my condo today has read my posts leading to the decisions I made. And, IF any of my rationale was totally wackadoodle...then I would like to know. Better late than never, right?

I understand what you are saying about the shed, and it affecting the next cycle, not the one you are shooting. I knew that could be an issue. Honestly, I dont think the few times i did it (and not back to back days) gathered enough information to say it would work or wouldnt. I saw something that could backfire (the shed releasing on the next cycle). But I also saw the potential of keeping her days low...but not too low and setting us up for a good pmps with a microscopic higher dose to keep her lower in that pred cycle. Do I still think it has potential? POssibly..but only if you are adding a small drop or two at a time. And no...this is not something the average cat should try.

She showed great improvement today...rewarded with an amazing bounce between pmps and +2. *sigh*
+4- 391 - lethargic, not hungry. She doesnt like these numbers anymore than I.
 
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