4/2 Petey AMPS 171 +2 192 +4 163 +6 104

Laurie&Petey

Laurie&Petey

Very Active Member
4/1 Post

Happy Wednesday!

Trying to wrap my head around how the same dose can drop BG 150+ points or keep them surfing within 20 points. That's where my fear sits, he starts out low but it's not dropping him the same 150 points (anti-jinx) (anti-jinx). Very superstitious now too hahaha.

Also if you're regularly in the greens, would love to know your snack schedule and total calories (I think I'm feeding Petey too much, overall).

Thanks, FD Friends.
:bighug:
 
Laurie&Petey said:
4/1 Post

Happy Wednesday!

Trying to wrap my head around how the same dose can drop BG 150+ points or keep them surfing within 20 points. That's where my fear sits, he starts out low but it's not dropping him the same 150 points (anti-jinx) (anti-jinx). Very superstitious now too hahaha.

Also if you're regularly in the greens, would love to know your snack schedule and total calories (I think I'm feeding Petey too much, overall).

Thanks, FD Friends.
:bighug:
Click to expand...
Wishing I had a good answer! It all still baffles me, Laurie.
Good luck with TR! You both will do great.
He had very nice numbers yesterday!
Have a safe day! :cool::D
:bighug::cat::bighug:
 
Tim & Pookey said:
Others will have a better answer but I think it’s just how Lantus works, at least in the cats.

How much does Petey weigh again? Maybe your vet could help with target calories too? Our stuff is in row 75 in the sheet.
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Thanks Tim, I'll check it out. He has been consistently gaining weight, up to 14.6 now.
 
I always wonder the same thing! Different results on the same dose, how can we ever predict where it'll take them :facepalm:
Curious to see what others are doing for calories. I've always thought Binx's were too high (300/day) but his weight is stable and consistent, so it must be right?? He's 11.7 lbs.

Safe surfing today :bighug:
 
Good meowning Laurie,

Nestle gets half a can of FF at shot time and another half a can @+6 (both cycles) plus whatever Peanut doesn't finish (as they eat the same thing).
Calorie wise I'm not sure.

Wishing you and Petey a peaceful day
:bighug::cat::bighug::cat:
 
Nestle said:
Good meowning Laurie,

Nestle gets half a can of FF at shot time and another half a can @+6 (both cycles) plus whatever Peanut doesn't finish (as they eat the same thing).
Calorie wise I'm not sure.

Wishing you and Petey a peaceful day
:bighug::cat::bighug::cat:
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Thank you! Petey is getting a total of about 12oz of food per day -a solid two 5.5oz cans.

Petey enjoyed a pee and poo in the great outdoors, then he thought he'd try his old tricks of running and jumping onto a tree. Then scaling a fallen tree trunk and stopping to sharpen his claws, then practicing his escape route with a beeline under the sunroom. All the while Mama is yelling no running, no running. don't climb the tree, go easy! hahaha

Vet: do you think you can keep him confined? Me: Yes, sure thing. Petey: :woot:

Leg is feeling good today. :nailbiting::facepalm::confused::smuggrin::bighug::cat: Hope you're enjoying time with the boys!
 
Laurie&Petey said:
Thank you! Petey is getting a total of about 12oz of food per day -a solid two 5.5oz cans.

Petey enjoyed a pee and poo in the great outdoors, then he thought he'd try his old tricks of running and jumping onto a tree. Then scaling a fallen tree trunk and stopping to sharpen his claws, then practicing his escape route with a beeline under the sunroom. All the while Mama is yelling no running, no running. don't climb the tree, go easy! hahaha

Vet: do you think you can keep him confined? Me: Yes, sure thing. Petey: :woot:

Leg is feeling good today. :nailbiting::facepalm::confused::smuggrin::bighug::cat: Hope you're enjoying time with the boys!
Click to expand...

Sounds like his leg is definitely feeling better meow. Oh silly boy. Cats eh???? :rolleyes::smuggrin::p
 
Laurie&Petey said:
4/1 Post

Happy Wednesday!

Trying to wrap my head around how the same dose can drop BG 150+ points or keep them surfing within 20 points. That's where my fear sits, he starts out low but it's not dropping him the same 150 points (anti-jinx) (anti-jinx). Very superstitious now too hahaha.

Also if you're regularly in the greens, would love to know your snack schedule and total calories (I think I'm feeding Petey too much, overall).

Thanks, FD Friends.
:bighug:
Click to expand...
I wonder the same thing myself quite a bit. I've noticed this pattern with Charlie where it seems like his pancreas release the insulin to keep him near a "target number" that his body chose (unbeknownst to me, lol). For example, let's say his made-up target number is 315. If his preshot is ~400, he drops a bit more significantly to get there. But if his preshot is already low 300s, he just kinds stays flat around there. That said, it seems like that "target number" is what's lowering over time--it was low/mid-300s just a few weeks ago, now it seems like its mid-high 200s. Could just be me reasoning with myself, but that's how I've been measuring his progress at least haha.
 
Good luck wit TR Laurie! You've already made an excellent start :)
It's really worked for Noogi and hope it does the same for Petey.
I had a chuckle at his escapades in the garden!
 
Petey's almost in the greens with that last test!

Jude's a grazer, and thankfully, his grazing is fairly evenly spread out through a cycle. He and Hazel share two cans of FF in the am and pm, and I try to make sure he has food in his bowl before I go to bed (in case they have eaten all the pm food). The bowls are typically not empty when I get home from work or up in the a.m. So I'm going to say Jude eats about 2.5 cans of FF per day (he eats more than Hazel). Jude's a big boy: 15 lbs. He could probably stand to lose a little. Interestingly, last night when Jude's bg dropped to 50, little dude was suddenly starving--he probably ate an entire can by himself at +3, which is highly unusual (as I said, he typically grazes). In the past, when he's dropped low, that has not been his response.
 
Marielle said:
Petey's almost in the greens with that last test!

Jude's a grazer, and thankfully, his grazing is fairly evenly spread out through a cycle. He and Hazel share two cans of FF in the am and pm, and I try to make sure he has food in his bowl before I go to bed (in case they have eaten all the pm food). The bowls are typically not empty when I get home from work or up in the a.m. So I'm going to say Jude eats about 2.5 cans of FF per day (he eats more than Hazel). Jude's a big boy: 15 lbs. He could probably stand to lose a little. Interestingly, last night when Jude's bg dropped to 50, little dude was suddenly starving--he probably ate an entire can by himself at +3, which is highly unusual (as I said, he typically grazes). In the past, when he's dropped low, that has not been his response.
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Thank you! Those are 3oz cans right?

Look at Jude go after those greens! Not too low, little buddy.

I've seen a few kitties on here that are actually less hungry in lower numbers... Petey will eat any time of day as often as it's offered -which is likely why he needed a diet when I got him. But he seems to be eating twice as much as most kitties and the extra weight is harder on this leg and joints etc. Definitely don't want him to get any bigger, he's still pretty flexible.
 
Laurie&Petey said:
Thank you! Those are 3oz cans right?

Look at Jude go after those greens! Not too low, little buddy.

I've seen a few kitties on here that are actually less hungry in lower numbers... Petey will eat any time of day as often as it's offered -which is likely why he needed a diet when I got him. But he seems to be eating twice as much as most kitties and the extra weight is harder on this leg and joints etc. Definitely don't want him to get any bigger, he's still pretty flexible.
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yes, 3 oz. tins. The last time Jude had a run of low numbers, he experienced inappetence, so I'm not sure what the deal is: is he hungry in low numbers or not. I honestly have never seen him as hungry as he was last night.
 
Laurie&Petey said:
4/1 Post

Happy Wednesday!

Trying to wrap my head around how the same dose can drop BG 150+ points or keep them surfing within 20 points. That's where my fear sits, he starts out low but it's not dropping him the same 150 points (anti-jinx) (anti-jinx). Very superstitious now too hahaha.

Also if you're regularly in the greens, would love to know your snack schedule and total calories (I think I'm feeding Petey too much, overall).

Thanks, FD Friends.
:bighug:
Click to expand...

Niko isn't quite yet regularly in the greens but he has been seeing some optimal range numbers recently as he gets more regulated. It's weird because he used to eat 2 cans of FF pate and then half a cup of Stella and Chewy's freeze dried morsels no problem. Now, I'm lucky if he gets half a can of the pate in the AM cycle + a third of the freeze dried. His hunger has decreased quite quickly as he has spent more time in the lower numbers, but his weight (somehow) shot back up to how it was pre-DX. He was barely 9.5 pounds before insulin, 13.2 pounds before diabetes in general, then recently is back to 12.8 (I don't want him to get any bigger but his food take has lowered so idk what's going on lol).

Following this to see what other say! I know Niko's inappetance isn't really a concern because he is still a glutton for treats and tubes but I was very surprised to see the change. Peak DX Niko/pre-insulin was almost eating 5 cans of FF a day....
 
Marielle said:
The last time Jude had a run of low numbers, he experienced inappetence, so I'm not sure what the deal is: is he hungry in low numbers or not. I honestly have never seen him as hungry as he was last night.
Click to expand...
Right now I am observing/thinking about the same thing with Noogs. Up til recently I haven't really tried to restrict the overall amount of food, just been careful about how much carbs he gets and when he gets fed. Although I haven't been measuring as such, I have had a sense of how much he was eating at a meal, how much to put in his feeder. Now he's in green numbers I've noticed he's much less hungry - not finishing all the food in his bowl for example, or not waking me up for breakfast at first light. In his case I wouldn't call it inappetence, just a lack of fixation on food. It is probably a more normal attitude to food and just feels weird because I have got to used to his hyper-fixation. Despite this normalization there is still a spot somewhere in the low 50s where he suddenly gets super-hungry again. On Monday when he was 52 when I got home he was ravenously hungry. I could barely get him to sit still for an ear prick. And as soon as food was put down he hoovered it up, and whined for more. I've had the same, altho a little less dramatic, at numbers just above hypo. It's like his body is demanding food to stop him going low. I've also noticed he is bouncing less, and I'm wondering if his body is getting better at using food to maintain BG and not immediately having his liver release glucose? I don't know. Just noticing that this is one area where a more regulated cat seems different to one that is not there yet.
 
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Helen + Noogi said:
Right now I am observing/thinking about the same thing with Noogs. Up til recently I haven't really tried to restrict the overall amount of food, just been careful about how much carbs he gets and when he gets fed. Now he's in green numbers I've noticed he's much less hungry - not finishing all the food in his bowl for example, or not waking me up for breakfast at first light. In his case I wouldn't call it inappetence, just a lack of fixation on food. It is probably a more normal attitude to food and just feels weird because I have got to used to his hyper-fixation. But there is a spot somewhere in the low 50s where he suddenly gets super-hungry again. On Monday when he was 52 when I got home he was ravenously hungry. I could barely get him to sit still for an ear prick. And as soon as food was put down he hoovered it up, and whined for more. I've had the same, altho a little less dramatic, at numbers just above hypo. It's like his body is demanding food to stop him going low. I've also noticed he is bouncing less, and I'm wondering if his body is getting better at using food to maintain BG and not immediately having his liver release glucose? I don't know. Just noticing that this is one area where a more regulated cat seems different to one that is not there yet.
Click to expand...

Totally echo this actually, the couple days ago where Niko was at a 45, he was RAVENOUS. I mean, sniffing for food on the floor like he was trying to vacuum up non-existent crumbs, eating everything I was giving him (usually he will eat then walk away with leftovers in the bowl).

I do like that last sentence, that the body is using food to maintain BG instead of depending on the liver to over-react... interesting to think about.
 
Niko's Mom said:
Totally echo this actually, the couple days ago where Niko was at a 45, he was RAVENOUS. I mean, sniffing for food on the floor like he was trying to vacuum up non-existent crumbs, eating everything I was giving him (usually he will eat then walk away with leftovers in the bowl).
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Yes, this exactly how Noogi was as well. It was a bit disturbing!

Niko's Mom said:
I do like that last sentence, that the body is using food to maintain BG instead of depending on the liver to over-react... interesting to think about.
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I have no idea if this is correct, science-wise. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable members can advise. Or I need to do some reading up :)

Ana, looking at Niko's SS again just now it seems we have been in similar places at the same time with our little guys!
 
Laurie&Petey said:
Trying to wrap my head around how the same dose can drop BG 150+ points or keep them surfing within 20 points. That's where my fear sits, he starts out low but it's not dropping him the same 150 points (anti-jinx) (anti-jinx).
Click to expand...
That is the beauty of Lantus. It does a GREAT JOB at keeping lower numbers in range but it does have a more erratic effect on larger BGs.

Laurie&Petey said:
would love to know your snack schedule and total calories
Click to expand...
What is Petey's ideal weight? That is what you base the total caloric intake on. Here are some great posts on exactly this topic.

Laurie&Petey said:
Petey is getting a total of about 12oz of food per day -a solid two 5.5oz cans.
Click to expand...
How many calories are in each can?

Helen + Noogi said:
In his case I wouldn't call it inappetence, just a lack of fixation on food. It is probably a more normal attitude to food and just feels weird because I have got to used to his hyper-fixation.
Click to expand...
This is so TRUE!!!
Helen + Noogi said:
I've also noticed he is bouncing less, and I'm wondering if his body is getting better at using food to maintain BG and not immediately having his liver release glucose?
Click to expand...

Look at this Post for an eloquent explanation of insulin being like a key to unlock the body's cells so that it can get proper nutrients from food. Its one of my favorites.
When their bodies get the nutrients it needs, and they maintain normal BG ranges, the liver stops panicking because the new normal are normal BG ranges.

I hope I didn't miss anything :facepalm:
 
Laurie&Petey said:
I'm just worried I am feeding WAY too much.
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This is on my mind with Noogs too. He had put on a little weight at his last weigh in. Now at 5.7kg (12.5lb) and eating equivalent of 3x 3oz cans per day I would guess. As he has been leaving food in his bowl (sometimes, not always) I've been giving him slightly smaller portions. Food is probably something I should pay more attention too and keep records about. I admire those who do so, but it has felt like too much for me up up til now. Now that his numbers are better I can obsess less about BG readings and doses, and can start obsessing about calories instead :)
Maybe you are in much the same place as me Laurie? :D
 
Helen + Noogi said:
I admire those who do so, but it has felt like too much for me up up til now.
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Exactly the same place. Sounds like they are both at a heathy weight and we just need to figure out how the maintain it.

As Ana mentioned, with their body using food better, it is likely to start storing the excess away. Petey has been consistently gaining. Don't need to make it any harder for them.
 
Helen + Noogi said:
Yes, this exactly how Noogi was as well. It was a bit disturbing!


I have no idea if this is correct, science-wise. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable members can advise. Or I need to do some reading up :)

Ana, looking at Niko's SS again just now it seems we have been in similar places at the same time with our little guys!
Click to expand...

I like your theory though, definitely wonder if it's true! I might do some research too.

And yes :) I have been browsing Noogi's SS from time to time, nice to see our little boys surfing the blues/greens!
 
Angela & Cleo said:
That is the beauty of Lantus. It does a GREAT JOB at keeping lower numbers in range but it does have a more erratic effect on larger BGs.


What is Petey's ideal weight? That is what you base the total caloric intake on. Here are some great posts on exactly this topic.


How many calories are in each can?


This is so TRUE!!!


Look at this Post for an eloquent explanation of insulin being like a key to unlock the body's cells so that it can get proper nutrients from food. Its one of my favorites.
When their bodies get the nutrients it needs, and they maintain normal BG ranges, the liver stops panicking because the new normal are normal BG ranges.

I hope I didn't miss anything :facepalm:
Click to expand...

I have a weird question but wondering if you know or have any potential research about this. Niko was diagnosed with a URI as a kitten along with his littermates at the shelter I volunteer at. As a result, he had chronic nasal discharge (red) and boogies. When he got steroid shots for his allergies, they went away (obviously, assuming it targeted inflammation in the body).

But then, when we got his DM DX, we obviously didn't get any more steroid shots but his discharge remained gone. Now, as he is getting better regulated, his discharge started again (almost the exact same time as we got those green nadirs in his cycles).

Is there any explanation for that? Technically, he is getting better but now his chronic URI symptoms are back. I'm stumped. My assumption was maybe his body went 'one problem at a time, buddy!' but I dont know lol.
 
Niko's Mom said:
I have a weird question but wondering if you know or have any potential research about this. Niko was diagnosed with a URI as a kitten along with his littermates at the shelter I volunteer at. As a result, he had chronic nasal discharge (red) and boogies. When he got steroid shots for his allergies, they went away (obviously, assuming it targeted inflammation in the body).

But then, when we got his DM DX, we obviously didn't get any more steroid shots but his discharge remained gone. Now, as he is getting better regulated, his discharge started again (almost the exact same time as we got those green nadirs in his cycles).

Is there any explanation for that? Technically, he is getting better but now his chronic URI symptoms are back. I'm stumped. My assumption was maybe his body went 'one problem at a time, buddy!' but I dont know lol.
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Just a guess here, but doesn't unregulated diabetes suppress the immune system... which is what steroids do as well? Maybe?

Any diet changes, that could cause a flare up?
 
Laurie&Petey said:
Just a guess here, but doesn't unregulated diabetes suppress the immune system... which is what steroids do as well? Maybe?

Any diet changes, that could cause a flare up?
Click to expand...

that could be it! it's just weird that as he gets more regulated, he now has the discharge again. he didn't have it when he had his depo medrol shots (for about a month until they wore off), then the DM DX came into play and he just stopped having them.

no diet changes recently. maybe the spring time?
 
Angela & Cleo said:
I'm not very knowledgeable about URIs. What kind of allergies does Niko suffer from? Are they seasonal? I've read of some CGs giving Zyrtec. You can try doing a search on this forum. @tiffmaxee @Wendy&Neko ?
Click to expand...

I'll take a look! Niko had 'food allergies', we suspect, because he was itching like crazy and balding himself. It's what the steroids reduced for a while... then he got diabetes. But we did a low carb high protein diet shift (before insulin) and the allergies went away. URI went away at the same time as the diabetes diagnosis. Now he just has the discharge again.

Maybe they are all related but we saw his 'food allergies' as separate from his 'URI issues'.
 
Niko's Mom said:
that could be it! it's just weird that as he gets more regulated, he now has the discharge again. he didn't have it when he had his depo medrol shots (for about a month until they wore off), then the DM DX came into play and he just stopped having them.

no diet changes recently. maybe the spring time?
Click to expand...
I don't know anything about URI, but I was giving Petey lysine every day for his stuffiness, sneezing etc. Got diabetes and it went away... Last few weeks I've noticed some sneezing but no discharge/crustiness. I was wondering if it was a food allergy or a spring time allergy for him... guess we'll see soon enough.
 
Lots here on the Cornell Feline Health Centre on URI's. Kitties who are immunocompromised have URI flairs. My main experience with URI's is in taking care of kitties at the shelter I volunteered/part time worked at. I've had a couple kitties get very occasional herpes flares from pred, which can cause compromise the immune system.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Lots here on the Cornell Feline Health Centre on URI's. Kitties who are immunocompromised have URI flairs. My main experience with URI's is in taking care of kitties at the shelter I volunteered/part time worked at. I've had a couple kitties get very occasional herpes flares from pred, which can cause compromise the immune system.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for this, I'll take a look!
 
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