5/10/22, AMPS 165 after stalling to 12.50. Token dose. 35u given. 179@+9.5, PMPS 207, 132@+9.75

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/

Spike seems to be doing OK with his new prescription for benazaoril 2.5mg x1/day for his rising BUN numbers (on labs tab of SS). I'm still very fearful as the websites that sell it specifically state that it could cause a hypo in cats who are on insulin or the oral bg meds.

He is still very bouncy but now he bounces down to the mid blues. Today at +8.25 he got down to 122bg which for him is low as he seems to like the yellows...lol

The Vet situation still concerns me as she said there was no danger in giving this drug with Spike being on Prozinc, especially since I home test bg. She also said that we could stretch out his next visit for a month, yet I read that felines on benazapril should have followup blood work done in several days as it can raise some levels.

In better news, my boy has GAINED half a pound since 3/2/2022 (diag. date), so YEAH!♡!

I'll give him his dose of benazaoril this PM, but I'll sweat bullets because I must sleep tonight and go back to work tomorrow after AMPS.

Any advise or general thoughts would be awesome.

 

You know that I am new and can't give advice but I will say GREAT job! Spike is in good hands. Also .

 

You still have quite a bit of room for safety - remember all the way down to 50 is technically ok.

From what I've read it's a more rare side effect. His numbers look good for now. You could try skinny doses or a temporary reduction if you would be more comfortable, but I fear that's more like shooting yourself in the foot

 

He'll get full q.5u tinite. He got to 307 at PMPS as I just got home from church.

Do u think it would be safe to crush it up for his food....he's not easy to pill and he can find it and spit it out like 4 times b4 I'm successful.. lol

 

I always thought that you should wait to repeat bloodwork because of exactly that reason… that there can be a temporary elevation of the numbers when first starting Benazepril - and that those numbers should drop back down later.

 

I replied to this in the PM.

 

I can only say that I never had a hypo with Darcy on Benazepril. I didn’t really notice any change in his BG when starting the Benazepril. But it pays to be very cautious and I am very happy that you will be.

Such a great thing that Spike has gained weight.

 

You could probably do a compromise and check blood work at two weeks? I would have his blood pressure checked though- after starting the Benazepril and on a regular basis after that to ensure it does not drop too much (not likely in a cat as the BP lowering effect of Benazepril is mild - but just as a precaution.)

 

I would also ask the vet about putting it into food. It may be okay. I believe it can be compounded into a liquid and therefore that means it should be okay to crush and mix with food. Don’t you think? You may want to get some compounded liquid if that is easier for you.

As I said, I put Ginger’s little benazepril tablet into a small gelatin capsule. This makes it easier to give it to her in case she spits it out. It won’t dissolve. And I get another chance to get it in her.

 

I use a small size 5 gelatin capsule for Ginger’s 2.5 mg dose of Benazepril— but I know the size of the pill depends on the manufacturer. Darcy’s 5 mg capsules were larger tablets. I gave it once a day in the morning.

 

A pharmacist may also be a very good source of information on the pill crushing question. I think if it’s not an extended release formula it’s probably okay as long as it’s not specifically formulated to be an extended release pill — but I am not a pharmacist.

 

Good morning. I'm just stopping by to let you know I was thinking of you and Spike. I see you got a yellow number on him last night and no low numbers. I believe you gave the Benazepril.

 

That's why I started the gel cap system with Ginger -- see my previous post up there somewhere

 

Gosh, I hope so. That's what I've read in some of the earlier material.

Thank you so much. I've been having a very busy trucker day and should be home in a couple hours. I feel a Lil better about it now based on your experience and what you've said about it. I also hope it eventually helps him live a much longer and happy life.

Thank you for everything.

 

What kind of truck route do you drive? I guess it’s not long-haul stuff? I hope you didn’t have a bad day… just a busy one.

 

Let us know how Spike is when you get home. I will check back in to see how his BG is.

 

He was 396 @+10.75 and thats so dang high. However, I left his wet food down and placed about 8 temptations treats on my bed for him in case he got low while I was gone. It's possible it was a food bump as I kinda feel he sleeps until about an hour b4 I get home then eats anything he can find. That's kinda his "m.o." whenever i have an off day.

I haul logs locally from the woods to a couple of lumber mills and paper mills in the Texarkana area.

 

Probably was NOT a food bump, as it rose to 421 by PMPS time. I gave his usual 1.5u dosage and his 2.5mg.benazapril. I've got to start checking him @+2 since that's when the med supposedly really kicks in.

It's weird that it causes higher Creatanine and potassium levels, at least for a while, but is used for kitties that are going through this.

 

Isn’t it weird!

 

Make sure Spike stays hydrated since he’s started the Benazepril. Also make sure they check his Potassium.

 

Got home late from shopping and as usual on Saturdays, Spike was down at 117 at PMPS+13.50. Stalled until +14.75 & he went up to 184. I shot .75u or half dose. Hope i did the right thing, but I can monitor for the next few hours.

 

Don’t you think he’s going to go pretty high with only that half dose? Anyway, just keep track for a bit, as you said, and we will find out, right? Did you feed him when you got home and got the 117?

 

Yes, a tbsp of 3 carb wet to give the Benazapril. I didn't finish feeding him until after the 184@+14.75 reading. Did i mess up. I swear he does this every Saturday when I go shopping and don't get home til +13-ish.

 

Nothing wrong. I was just trying to figure out about the 184 number.

 

He dropped down to 74 at AMPS +6 today. I fed him a little 14 carb friskies prime filet chicken & tuna and now he's back up to 140@+7.75. It's now up to 236 @+10.

@FrostD this is fyi, and if you see my SS, you can see what the past 48 hours have been like and maybe give me some pointers for the future. My lil buddy is up to his usual Saturday night hijinks...lol. I thought I would shoot him a half dose last night to keep him out of the red overnite and he got his usual 1.5u dose this AMPS.

This boy is hard for me to get my mind around when it comes to his ever-changing numbers. It's a hot afternoon here in East texas and he just demands to sit on the back porch and survey his domain of the meadow and watch the birds come and go...lol. I'm keeping a close eye on him but plan on going to evening church for about 1.5 hrs at around 5-7pm...+10&+11ish.

 

It sounds like Spike is having a good day!

I hope you can shoot the full 1.5 units tonight (despite that 74 today). I really don't think a reduction is going to help him. Of course, we will see where he is when you get back home this evening. I think what is really needed here is consistency in the doses of a.m. and p.m. as well as timing. That's not a criticism. If you work late or have to go shopping... it is what it is. I just hope you can because he needs to even out a bit. Technically, you are supposed to take a reduction because he dropped below 90. It's up to you. I have another thought -- Maybe reducing to 1.25 units would allow you to shoot the same amount in the morning and the evening and then be as consistent as possible as to shot times as well. Melissa what do you say? @FrostD since I know you have been advising Lee a lot.

 

I'm a little torn because I'm not sure what he did on the 3rd or 5th as well ...I don't think a reduction will help either, but with you gone all day I'd rather err on the side of caution.

I think I would take a reduction to 1.25U. We usually try not to do uneven dosing, but he may still need 1.5U above 300. I would give the 1.25U 1-2 weeks to see, then we can see if he needs a little extra juice.

 

Good call, I think... especially since you don't get home until later in the cycle.

 

Well, he was up at 427 at PMPS so I gave the 1.5u full dose tonight. I don't know what Spike is doing between yesterday and today. Maybe I can get a couple tests in b4 I fall asleep tonite. Do you think I need to reduce to 1.25u tomorrow? Regardless of his AMPS number or what?

 

Well I am glad you shot 1.5 but I do worry about him being alone so much tomorrow. But you can see how he does tonight and in the morning.

 

I assume that I should probably reduce to 1.25u in the AM since I'll be gone until about 5:30-6pm. He has done nothing but go up and down like a Rollercoaster since 3-2 (dx date). I can't let him get that ow while I'm gone tho. I'm gonna guess that in the am, he'll be in the yellows at least since he was 427 tonite...but with him, there is no telling until we get there. I will get a +3 and hopefully a +6 tonite.

 

I think so, yes. I am hoping it will allow you to shoot that 1.25 both a.m. and p.m. without altering the dose ((unless of course he goes below the reduction point)

 

@FrostD I gave the 1.25u reduction this AMPS. It's now +10.50 and he is already up to 331.i totally don't know what's going on with him. Anything you can tell me would be appreciated. He is one hard cat to figure out, it seems. We've been down to 1.25u a couple times before and went back up to 1.5u. I know that I need to be more consistent with exact shot times, and I do the best that I can, but there is room for improvement. Shooting .25 unit increments is sooo hard to eyeball with these larger barreled syringes too. Insit there studying where the plunger is forever b4 I'm convinced that it's on 1.25u...lol

 

Well, we know that the 1.25 is probably not optimal. I said last night that I didn't think a reduction was really going to help Spike, but considering he's dropped low-ish while on the 1.5 units ... and you're not going to be at home a lot during the day... we decided on the 1.25. I am sorry. I hate seeing the higher numbers. I thought we had kind of agreed that we would try to see if shooting 1.25 consistently would help smooth things out... you can always go back up after giving it a try. If you go back up to 1.5 and you're not at home... we don't know what would happen. Have you considered getting digital calipers for fine dosing. You may want to give something between 1.25 and 1.5... I am not the guru on digital calipers since I have never used them, but there is a lot of information on how to use them on this Board.

 

Anyway... I am sure Melissa will come along soon tonight and she's the one you really want to hear from anyway...

I am sorry about the higher numbers though... I know what that is like...

 

I enjoy hearing from everyone here. Yes, I can't have him drop too low while I'm at work, so I went to the 1.25u to see what will happen and will keep him there until we decide what to do next. I love hearing from you, but im just am so used to Melissa giving advise and being familiar with Spikes issues.. It would be great if he would stabilize there...lol

 

Melissa is great. I admire her very much. I do hope Spike will smooth out. I understand the anxiety about what may happen while you are away!

 

Sorry nightmare getting kids down tonight

My true thoughts are 1.25U if he's 200-299, 1.5U if over 300. He never seems to steep dive from 300s to green like some cats do, so the split dosing may help (now watch me have to eat my words, looking at last night's tests). But I strongly suspect each of those other days he went fairly well below reduction threshold.

I will review spreadsheet about doses below 200...

 

I think somewhere between 0.5-0.75U if 150-199 is good, it's what you're comfortable with

 

And wouldn't you know it, he popped a 150 at PMPS+11.75. I fed a tbsp of 3 carb wet mixed with his AminAvast just now (HE WAS DESPERATELY STARVING), and will retest b4 I leave for the day. I'm torn between .25u and .5u as I know I fed and corrupted the AMPS #.

 

Did you get an AMPS?

 

165. I gave .35u, kinda as per a dosing guide from Melissa. I split the difference of .25.and .5 u.....can't monitor today azs I'm walking out the door now.

 

Melissa @FrostD are you talking about pre-shot numbers in this above post- or nadirs? You are talking pre-shot, right?

 

Gave token dose of .35u and going to have friend visually check in on him around +5 or +6.

 

If he was starving your friend could feed them?

 

I was referring to early this am. He woke me up raising cane starving, so I checked him and he had bg of 150 at +11.75. Then I gave a teaspoon of 3 carb. Rechecked at like +12.5 and he was at 165, so I gave the token dose as I had to leave. Just told my friend to check-in on him and if he don't act/look right, she knows where and which wet food to give him. She and her mom r type 2 Dia, so she is semi familiar with how it looks and feels...lol

 

Yes preshots

 

Par for the course! Lol

 

I thought so, but I am so used to reading that doses are based on the nadirs and not thepre-shot numbers that I started questioning whether I was interpreting correctly.

 

Yep! We usually try not to dose based on preshots (unless they're lower than usual but you know that lol) but I think in Spikes case it's worth a try to help even him out

 

Yes. I think so too!

 

Yep. I knew you meant he was hungry this morning (that’s why you fed him a bit before AMPS time). I just meant if he seemed really hungry when your friend came over that she could feed them. What a good friend. How many cats do you have, Lee? Just two?

 

Indoor kitties are Sophie who I brought with me to Moms house, then Mom's kittie Minnie. These two are exclusively indoors. Then there is Lucky, Camper, and Traveller, who go in and outdoors. Then there is Pretty Boy, who is exclusively my porch kitty. I feed two barn kitties who come up to eat twice daily whose names are Momma Kitty & Leo.

Traveller is the youngster who showed up as a kitten in Feb 2020 and is a zoomie wildchild. He spends the day getting into all the trouble he can find, then wants to come inside and sleep with me and Sophie. All the others are chilled out senior citizen kitties. All have been spayed or neutered. All are also lil family members who've always been spoiled rotten by my Mom. Sophie knows she is "Daddy's Lil Princess". I rescues Sophie from a shelter when she was a baby and I'm the only daddy she's ever known...lol They all keep me busy and are dearly loved. Lucky is a child of Momma Kitty who decided that life is better inside with the hoomans...lol

I've got copies of all Vet files for all kitties except for the barn kitties and they are updated as each one sees the Vet. My Mom was a VERY thorough person when it came to documentation of all things. I've kept up that tradition on the kitties records.

Spike I call "Senior Kitty in Charge". He has been kept indoors with food since diagnosis, goes to the porches and lounges and I put him back indoors before bed, so he can wake me up if he gets low bg, hungry, or wants to cuddle.

Mom trusted me to take care of "the babies" and that's what I WILL do. I just thank The Lord that you ALL are HERE to guide me through this part of it with Spike.

 

You have your hands full! I enjoyed reading about your kitties. Thanks. This made me smile. We have a lot of cats here, too, but I have help from my kids taking care of them. Where did you get Spike? Or was he your mom’s cat? So you moved into your mom’s house? Did she pass away? I am very sorry if that is the case.