6/14 Mouzer pmps +11 51

@Marje and Gracie
I will be sure to check here in the morning before I give the shot, in case you suggest any lower -
If he wakes in the upper pink - the 1u went well today, minus my personal fear of leaving the house, anyhow

 

Ok, it's important for you to feel comfortable with what's going on. I probably would have waited longer to test, but I have a tad more experience and high numbers scare me more than low numbers. LOL!

 

LOL NO! I aint sleepin til he goes to 130 or 150 on his own. I just thought to surf before the green heehee

 

Those reds and blacks do scare me but I am learning these lower ones now and they are scary, but fear of the reds and blacks is what pushed me to do that shot tonight.

 

Haha! Ok then... hold off on the HC unless he drops lower. Oh, and those green surfs are where his pancreas will have a chance to heal. I know they can be scary, but they're good for him and you have to remember... YOU are in control! You have all the tools necessary to keep him safe.

 

Ohhhhh OK! Green
I am in control (you should see my face)
I do have all the tools, as long as they work

 

Cherryl, I have a few other things I have to do, but will check in later. I believe Marje will also.
You can do this... remember that! I've watched and you know more than you think you know. Plus, you have good instincts. That goes a long way around here.

BBL!

 

My goodness! Mouzer sure is giving you a ride! Those blues are beautiful! You're going to be a pro in no time!

 

@Mandy & Rex
Thank you for taking time out over here today and this evening!!
I appreciate it very much!

 

OK! I am not scared - at this time - I got over giving the shot and now I am just comfy watching test and kind of guessing what to do, so I hope I am not doing wrong stuff.
I am looking at the number and making a decision hahahha

 

I thought the blue day was pretty -- I am learning I am supposed to let him go green for healing, so I have to let this go down some and keep it up above 50.
If I become a pro, it is only because Mouzer is forcing me to learn

 

Yes greens are good!

 

I gave him 2tsp hc at +3.5 with 102
I am not sure how much that will raise the number but I expect green at some point

 

@StephG
I just read Chuck Norris aka Satan hahahaha I never noticed that before!

 

+4 coming up soon?

 

Haha yeah! He was the spawn of Satan as a kitten and that's how he got his name. I was his "toy" that he stalked and attacked when he felt like it. So many stories... So little time! Some people are uncomfortable with his name, including DH so he calls him "Chuck Norris" because "he's a bada$s"...

ETA: we can chat later. I'll let y'all focus on his numbers!

 

+4 81 green

 

It is ok - I am focused lol I got this -
I think I got this unless if some freak stuff happens that I am not aware of that would make him flip off of the board and slam to the bottom or somethin.
I figured Chuck Norris bada$$ hahaha

 

Ok. Just stay steady and keep Mouzer away from the 50's if you can. You are now good at "Know Thy Cat." You knew he was going to get a green.

I'm wondering if you're yet willing to try TR now that you're more confident with steering Mouzer's numbers and you are testing enough. He's not eating any dry food, right?

 

I am not comfy with TR yet
I am not ready to do shots below 100
The 153 was most unpleasant lol

 

That's fine. I was curious. I need to sign off soon. Were you planning to get a +4.5? In saying that, I remembered that you were half an hour late so I can't hang around until +5.

 

It is ok - I can holler for Jill & Alex if I have to
I will be getting half hour test until he comes up to 130 to 150 for the night
Which I will slow up the test if he gets up to 110 and do hourly til 30 or 150

 

+4.5 78

 

Good luck! I'll check in on you in the morning.

 

okie dokie - night night hahaha I do not know if I will get to bed at all tonight

 

Hey, Cherryl... You've had some long nights lately. It's ok if you want to get his numbers bumped up so you can get to bed sooner rather later. It's one of those times for caregiver decisions. Only the caregiver knows how much more they can take as well as the need to weigh sleep versus what they have to do the next day. Taking care of you is just as important as taking care of Mouzer!

If you want to get him bumped up with HC... do it.

 

+5/82

 

I am concerned if I bump him up - heck I wont sleep lol I will still be concerned enough to test hahaha
So, I am letting him stay green, because I wouldnt sleep, knowing it was food holding him up.
I will figure it out tomorrow. I do have some things to do on Friday, during the day, so I might have to consider bumps for tomorrow night and then some on Friday, but tonight is - I am up I have let one of my cousins know what is going on and she will be able to check kitties at mom's place, as long as I get over there long enough to bulk up their food - and mom knows I am not going to be there, at where she stays with the alzheimer's friend, til Friday.

 

Ok, it's your decision. I just wanted you to know you have the option of aborting the cycle for no other reason than you're beat. I remember there were times I was sooooooooooo tired... I called it "hitting the wall"... when I just couldn't function and had to sleep so I skipped a shot and went to bed. Gasp! Sometimes you just have to recharge the old batteries!

Have you been feeding since +4 or is he surfing on his own?

 

+3.5 102 2tsp hc
I think food wear off is next test at +5.5, so might have to feed
Maybe Thursday night I consider skip shot, if he is going like this

 

I'm around now @Jill & Alex (GA) if you need to go.

Just post his BG here, Cherryl, as you have been doing.

 

Ok, good to know. He's been doing pretty well... holding his own without food since +3.5. You're doing great!

 

As I walk by him, he is snoozing, so I call his name - he opens his eyes, jerks his head and looks me in the eyes, so I know he is ok.
He prolly sayin, it is past bedtime, woman! hahaha

 

Thanks, Marje! I will bow out now. Like I mentioned earlier, I haven't been feeling too well.
As you can see, Cherryl's doing great!

Cherryl, I'll stop by again sometime tomorrow!

 

bbiab (be back in a bit - thought I better make sure ya know what bbiab means hahaha doin test)

 

Thank you for comin to watch and you have a good night's sleep!
Oh! I am editing to add - I hope you feel better soon!!

 

You're welcome! Feel better

 

+5.5/74/2tsp hc all juice, left most fud

 

He's basically surfing. That's an easy meter variance from +5. When do you want to test again?

I'll post the feeding info after he comes up a bit.

 

I am testing every 30, afraid not to
next test in 13 minutes, unless you think I dare wait

 

I am all for you deciding to fit your comfort level. At some point, you'll know when you can wait an hour.

 

Maybe I will go with the every 30 til I feel comfy - and then I have tonight's every 30 for the next time - a guide to let me know how to decide when to let it go for an hour.
I am prolly being over-cautious, but I am getting data lolololol laffin so big!! It is Mouzer's poor comfort I think is being more intruded upon with the ear poking haha

 

Sounds good. It will be a good reference for you.

See you at +6.

 

Okie Dokie!!

 

+6 88
12:30am est
*CG yawns widely**coffee or no**yes, coffee*
juice from fud might last less than til +7.5
going to wait til +7 for next test at 1:30am est
give Mouzer a poke break for 30 xtra

 

Just wanted to add something here.....Nobody shoots under 100 until they're ready to, whether they're on TR or SLGS

Even those of us that started on TR don't shoot until we have enough data to know our cats and know what we need to do to get their numbers up (and keep them there)

At first, your "no shot" limit is 150....and that's not actually a "no shot".....it just means the first few times you shoot under 150, we want someone online and able to commit to watching out for you until everyone is comfortable that the cat is going to stay safe.

Gradually, as you gain more experience and data, the number starts to come down....Only once you've got enough data to truly know your cat would anybody suggest shooting those really low numbers like "anything over 50"

 

Just passing time, reading through the thread for the whole day, I got to this part, what you said in the quote...and...
If I know more than I think, then a lot has been soaking in that I did not realize and that is thanks to you, for grabbing me when I got to this board, and consistently providing information, causing me to even realize the vet started Mouzer off way too high, continuing to provide information, that I did read and re-read and still go back and read, and Marje & Gracie for the information she has kept putting out to me, and Gill & George for spending an entire day with me, walking me through each step, giving me something to document and go by for the future, and with my getting over balking all of you and that balking was fear and worry coming out in another form, and all the while, everything you have been putting out to me has been seeping into my subconscious hahaha And so it is there for me to dig out, when it seems called for. And that is a good foundation you all have built for instincts to have something to fall back on --- So, again, I thank you all for everything, including your patience!!

 

He's looking good. Let's hope he keeps surfing without food so you can go to sleep.

If he isn't headed up, remember that Jill said you can give him carbs to abort the cycle.

Here is what I'm thinking for tomorrow. He dropped below 90 again tonight and it's been three cycles since his last reduction. Normally, with three cycles, I'd suggest waiting to reduce the dose but one of those cycles was a skipped shot which means the depot drained a bit more than if you had shot 1u.

How would you feel about reducing the dose to 0.75u?

 

I think that sounds good as long as you think it is good to try. I dont want to reduce if you think it is not a good thing, like you did mention before, but if you think to try another reduction, I feel safe with your decision and maybe tomorrow I can get some rest lol and tomorrow night get to bed But only if it wont hurt Mouzer in the long run for the double reduction.

 

I can't predict whether it will be too soon, unfortunately. Without the skipped shot, I'd say wait one more cycle. SLGS is a more conservative approach to regulation and so reducing in this situation is consistent with that conservative approach.

If you reduce and Mouzer does not either stay in blue/green or come back down to it if he bounces, then you'll want to take the dose up right away.

Just some thoughts for you to consider. Of course, if he bounces in the morning, you can shoot through the bounce with 1u and take the reduction tomorrow night.

 

+7 80

 

Very good and no food since 5.5.

You could feed him a couple tsp of low carb only. I'm not sure how long you want to be up.

 

This + 7 80 - do you think I can go another hour, instead of 30 - or will the juice from hc be wearing off at +7.5 from the +5.5 and I should test at +7.5?
And I still havent picked up enough to know if I am shooting through a bounce - he was 351 this morning, morning after shooting through bounce - when shooting through a bounce, he was 377 - so how do I know what is a bounce hahaha I will shoot through it but I cant determine what is the bounce to shoot through.

 

Oh Ok! I will wait for an hour, if you think he wouldnt drop big between now and then.
And I do have that post up there asking about shooting through a bounce.

 

I'd try and go an hour.

There's no hard and fast rule about what number would trigger you to shoot through the bounce. For some cats, the CG might know enough and the cat might typically be more in normal numbers that they would shoot through the bounce at, for example, 150 (because that might be a bounce for some cats).

If you were concerned he might come back down quickly in the morning, you could decide that for anything over 300, you would,shoot through the bounce. But you'd have to be attentive. If you have something to do tomorrow, use a higher number or just give the reduction.

 

I can be attentive tomorrow - I already spoke with my cousin and tomorrow is arranged. I will shoot through the bounce if he is over 300 - he has shown two days in a row to come down quickly from upper 300's. If under 300, I could only wish, I will take the reduction then - I would love to see him wake up in yellow, at least, but I dont know if that will come at this time. It is tomorrow night, I really need to get to bed, so I can tend to things on Friday - SO, if I do shoot through a bounce (over 300 bg) in the am, I will take the reduction for pm. For now, Mouzers bounce is upper pink, as far as I can tell hahaha

 

@Marje and Gracie
I have to ask...
Yesterday, I shot thru bounce of 377 with 1.25u
Today, I shot at 351 with 1.0u
Does this mean Mouzer is bouncing over night, each night?
Are these lows to the highs, all considered bouncing?

LOL I quoted my own quote in this one up there

Dear Diary - CG g2gp

 

Cherryl

I'm going to leave the info about food management for you to read when you have time.

First, not all cats need the curve managed with food. The ones that typically do are the ones that like to dive and bounce or ones that are really carb sensitive. What do we expect when we manage the curve with food (i.e. what is the goal?):

manage the curve with food -----> flatten the curve -------> adjust the dose (if necessary)

Managing the curve with food often results in flattening the curve at higher numbers. This allows you to then safely get more insulin in the kitty. Rather than recreate a discussion on managing the curve with food, I’m just going to link an excellent one: Managing the Curve with Food and scroll down to post #15 (see posts numbers in a condo in the bottom right corner).

Here are a few things you need to know about Mouzer to effectively manage his curve with food:

• when is his onset, nadir, and what is his duration (you can review these terms at New to the Group Sticky. If you need any further explanation of these terms, please let me know).
• does he get any carryover or overlap (also in the New to the Group sticky)
• how does Mouzer react to different %carbs of food and does he react differently during the cycle (i.e. early as opposed to late)

Here are some basic guidelines that might help you but remember....ECID!! While many lantus cats that need food management do well with food at PS, +1, +2, +3, some need a different plan or different portions at each time. You will have to experiment to find what works for Mouzer.

• consistency helps; I’d try to find a feeding plan that works every cycle and remember it can take time to see results so be patient
• The goal is to be able to feed his LC food as much as possible to manage the curve (see caveats below)
• feeding after nadir puts the brakes on the action of the insulin which results, often, in a shorter duration, which (in turn) means the PS will be higher
• bounces can be caused by low numbers but also by big drops (in fact, my girl always bounced harder from a big drop than a low number)
• it helps to test a little more early in the cycle on the cycles you are home for a short time so you can find out when he dives. Is it always, for example, at +2? Does it change? Does he only do it on a bounce clearing cycle?
• don’t assume that he will drop the same mg/dL each hour; in other words, if you test at +2 and he’s down 100 from PS, don’t assume he came down at a steady rate of 50 mg/dL an hour; he might have dropped 30 mg/dL to +1 and 70 to +2

And here are some of my recommendations for Mouzer right now based on his SS (other members....please do not follow this advice; it is only for Mouzer at this point. It might change for him as his curves change. Your cat might need something totally different...or no management at all).

• Determine how many calories a day he needs to maintain his weight, if he's at a good one, and then determine how much food that is in ounces
• Divide the total ounces for the day by two and feed half in the morning and feed the other half in the evening cycle, dividing each into four minimeals
• because cats that dive, typically do so early in the cycle (+1, +2, +3), I’d front load the cycle at AMPS and +1 to start and then see how you need to adjust it. As an example, if you feed a total of 8 oz a day, then you would feed 4 oz each cycle. Breaking it down into four minimeals, you might feed 1.5 oz at AMPS and +1 and then 0.5 oz at +2 and +3. That's just an example for illustration purposes but you get the idea.
• Keep track of what you feed when, how much, how many carbs and if you put it in the remarks on his SS, it also helps us.
• if he gets hungry later in the cycle, leave him LC freeze dried treats like chicken; these usually will not impact the BG when fed after nadir; just be sure you don’t go overboard because they are used as a snack and should not be a meal
• on cycles when you are home, I’d try and test as much at PS, +1, +2, and +3 for several cycles (especially if it looks like he’s coming down instead of going up) and see if you can catch when he drops. Also, does he get a food spike at +1? All of the time? Some of the time? Never?
• as you do these tests from above and you see him start to drop, decide what food is best to control the drop. Remember that the amount of drop and how significant it is depends on the cat. With my Gracie when I knew she was going to come down fast early and I checked hourly, if she had one test that was 50 mg/dL less than the hour before, I applied the brakes with 10-12% but that was for her. And it also depends on where they start from......the higher they start, the bigger the potential drop. A cat that starts at 300 has a lot more room to drop than a cat that starts at 100 (i.e. starting at 300, they could even drop 100 in one hour whereas the cat starting at 100 might just drop 40 in one hour).
• you might see some members tell you to not use HC unless he’s below 50 mg/dL. I, personally, disagree specifically if it’s early in the cycle and he’s dropping fast. If you know how much of a drop will cause a bounce in Mouzer, use the carbs you need to slow him down but not send him back up or demolish his duration. This is a tough one to figure out but if you know how carb sensitive he is, it can become a fine art to know how to balance the carbs with the action of the insulin. If you feed an early drop with MC or HC to slow him down and then he shoots back up fast ( e.g. Blue to pink in 1.5 hours), it’s not a bounce starting....it’s his duration being nipped by the carbs. A bounce might start on top of the lack of duration, though. Don’t worry if this happens at first....it’s a learning curve. All data is good.
• once you figure out a feeding schedule and have gathered the data from above, I would religiously get a +2 every single cycle that you are home; you can get so much info about the cycle with a +2
  • if the +2 is more than meter variance higher than the PS, it’s likely to be a quiet cycle
  • if the +2 is about the same or within meter variance of the PS, it’s likely to be an active cycle with onset at +2/+3
  • if the +2 is more than meter variance below the PS, it’s most likely going to be a very active cycle

There will be cycles, like you've been seeing, where you might have to toss the curve management out the window and feed the lows. Hopefully, aa you manage the curve with food each cycle,he will flatten and you won't have to feed so much throughout the cycle.

I’ve dumped a lot of info on you above plus what is in the post I linked. When you have a chance to read through it, please let me know what makes sense, what doesn’t, what questions you have. Sound good? As you absorb and understand that, I can post more info on what happens when you get the cycle flattened.

 

Please be sure and read the long post I left you above when you have time tomorrow.

Yes, he has been bouncing overnight but he might not do that every night. Also, some cats will go lower at night for a while and then go lower during the day for a while. Or both. Or neither. The point is that, until they are well regulated, cycles change.

And yes, the lows to highs you've been seeing are bounces.

How are you doing and are you feeling comfortable on your own now? It's almost 30 mins past my bedtime and I have to be early tomorrow if you think you are ok.

Meter + Food = you in control

 

+8 84

I feel ok and good on my own now - If anything crazy took place, I would put up a question or 911 if I thought that crazy, so you get your rest and thank you so much for all of this information. I have read the post but am going back to read tomorrow, as I pass time on Mouzer hahaha

I do have one thing already...
I had bought some of those dried chickent treats but I was not thinking about Mouzer's stomatitis and he cant eat them, they are too hard.
Do you have a soft food suggestion in the way of treat? Would cooked white meat chicken breast be such a treat? Or is that with no carb at all?

 

Yes....China's "pokey treat" for about the first 6 months was just plain baked chicken. I'd get it on sale, back one piece and freeze the rest. Once baked, I'd chop it into bite size pieces ....enough for 3 days or so and freeze the rest

 

Thank You!! I have used white meat chicken breast for Mouzer in past, when he couldnt even eat the pate.
I also use it for my other stomatitis kitty, when he gets near depo shot time and cant eat his food.
They seem to be able to eat the chicken - or make themselves eat it because they love it hahaha

 

Yes, like Chris, I also fed Gracie chicken as a LC treat. I would buy the breast tenders because they were small, freeze them, and then take one out at a time, boil it, and then keep it in a glass jar in the frig. She would get a little as a snack each cycle.

I'm off to dreamland where I can visit with my sweet baby girl.

You are doing super and so is Mouzer. Sleep well when you get to bed.

 

Okie Dokie again haha
Sleep well and tell sweet baby girl hello from me and Mouzer...
I am not sure when I will get to sleep - that depends on Mouzer's amps hahaha
And even if he doesnt go above 300 and I shoot 0.75u, I am going to be monitoring, at least long enough to see what it does, so I can know if I need to do a full day monitor or if I get a break in the day - or have to wait for pm haha
Night Night To You!

 

Great Job Cheryl.

Sorry I wasn't about, had a busy day, was on line shortly before your pmps, (in bed with my tablet), wrote a post but wifi conked out, DH was sound asleep didn't won't to wake him with me rattling about trying to get the dam thing working, so annoying.


I'm glad you shot, that was a good move, glad you had some company yesterday to with Mandy, Jill and Marje.
I'll try to look out for your amps in the morning.

Hope you get some sleep.

 

+9 74

LOL Is Mouzer going to even need an am shot haha

 

I do not see sleep to come haha I have to wake up in 30 mins LOLOL
Look at Mouzer +9 74
Is he even going to need an am shot?
Where is the darn bounce time hahaha What in the heck does he do? +11.98 jump from blues and greens to upper pinks hahaha
And Marje had once said, there could have been blues in the night but I had no data, so that could not be confirmed..... He may very well did have blues, when I was sleeping haha

 

Oh boy! I think he is just loving the attention

Some cat's experience a second dip at around this point, that might be what you are seeing. (referred to as the double dip). Then they pop up for the next preshot.
He's pretty flat anyways, don't think you have anything to worry about. You could give him a little LC snack if you want or just leave well alone at this point.

 

I was hoping to leave it alone and see when he comes up -
I was trying to determine if much difference with 84 and 74 - as in can I wait another hour before test or is it time to go back to the half hour.

 

Frome the new to the group sticky

I think you are fine to wait an hour, if that's what you want to do. I also think it fine not to give him any food. That 74 is within meter variance of 20 %. So he's pretty flat.

from the new to the group sticky

+0 - PreShot number.
+1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
+2 - Often similar to the PreShot number. Onset begins around +2 for most cats. You'll probably see an active cycle if the +2 is the same/similar OR lower than the preshot number. Continue testing!
+3 - Often lower than the PreShot number.
+4 - Lower.
+5 - Lower.
+6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle. NOTE: ECID. Not every cat has a mid-cycle nadir. Adjust the hours on this example to fit your cat.)
+7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
+8 - Slight rise.
+9 - Slight rise.
+10 - Rising.
+11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
+12 - PreShot number.

 

With the double dip, they don't dip as far as they did with the actual nadir, so you don't need to worry about him dropping too low.

 

OH! I will save this stuff! LOLOL This is all some good stuff put to me tonight and I know I have seen it in the stickies but I have read so many stickies and it gets hard to remember specific things - having it pointed out in sectional post - I clip it and make note!
So, +9 - Mouser is actually doing another dip - instead of +11 --- OR more dipping to come?

 

I've got some gardening chores to do, I'll be back in an hour to check on you in case you have more questions, but I won't worry if you've decided to go to bed and catch some zzz's

 

TBH he looks more flat than anything else to me.

But in the same way as some cat's can onset earlier than other it is possible that if they do the double thing that can be a little earlier or later. So you are in the ball park for him to have dipped already.
It's not anything to worry about, just a peculiarity of Lantus curve in some kitties. George would dip at around +10, but usually just around 10-15pts and then he would head back up for PS.

 

I will be awake. I have to get up in four mins lol I cant go to sleep hahaha
It will take me from 4am til around 10am to tend to the animals for the morning.
I am hoping Mouzer will calm down today, so maybe I can grab a nap at the 10am
See you when you get back!!

Oh Yeah! I did pm shot 30 mins late and want to do it at 6am est, making up the 30 minus.
That shouldnt be much difference in numbers, I wouldnt think, anyhow, but if I am wrong, let me know.
LOL Unless Mouzer is so low that I put it off for 30 mins hahaha

 

+10 65 test1
+10 58 test2
3tsp lc

I remember being told feed no later than +10
Hope no more is needed

Feed Now?? I did not want to do that LOL

This cat aint comin up LMBO!
I am goin to trip out if this cat goes from this number to upper 300's in two hours
Is he even goin to make it to a shootable number LOL
LOL He might make it to two reductions in 12hrs time hahaha j/k of course

 

+10.5 61
I aint shootin in green haha Mouzer comes up or no shot
You can keep your balls of steel lolol

Eyes like that due to flash
But Mouzer has never had his tongue out before, except for when I shared his photo the other day in his low greens lolol Mouzer is stoned again!

 

LOL
the +10 food was ok, but no more food now, unless he drops below 50.
I'll pop back in 30 min.

Trying to get some gardening done before it gets too hot.

 

+11 51 2tsp hc

 

I did not see this - I already ran back inside LOL
He slapped my hand when I poked him and made it do something where he was bleeding and it wouldnt stop haha And I had to stand there with pressure and a paper towel and finally a darn bandaid on his ear but it wont stick lol blood all over his ear, runnin down, gettin on his paws and some how it got on top of his head, prolly his shaking his head due to feeling blood drops lolol but I think it is not bleeding now and I already fed him and came back out here to laptop
+11 51 2tsp hc

LOLOL OK I have now gone insane due to being awake since 4am est yesterday morning LOLOL It is now 5:42am est today
Meet you in the new condo