7-22-20 new member questions

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Bradshaw & Felix, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    My approximately 13 year old male cat was diagnosed almost a year ago. We rescued him in 2011 without any health background. We quickly found out he has a sensitive stomach and has been on a strict diet until we made changes due to his diabetes. Where can I find the "log" to enter his numbers and upload in the forum for advise? Thanks in advance
     
  2. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    WELCOME TO FDMB! We are so clad you found us.

    To set up a spreadsheet and signature go here and read the stickies (highlighted in yellow) they will guide you.

    Again, welcome to the best darn site to get ANSWERS!

    we loves questions!
    jeanne
     
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  3. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Hello and welcome!

    Here's the spreadsheet instructions and template: FDMB SPREADSHEET INSTRUCTIONS

    Sounds like you're already home testing blood glucose-- wonderful!

    What insulin are you using, and at what dose?
     
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  4. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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  5. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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  6. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    that's ok. I found it. I was able to complete the spreadsheet. Where do I post to have someone view it and give advice?
     
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  7. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    He is currently on Prozinc and his dose has fluctuated greatly as you can see on the spreadsheet. He was diagnosed in August of 2019. We trust and love our vet with all 6 of our current cats and many before now. However, we started testing at home and researching ourselves because we feel our vet is not too knowledgeable in regards to feline diabetes. Prior to home testing, our vet would set a dose and we were following that until we had a hypo episode. $1,000 ER trip later....we are now home testing...
     
  8. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    right here! ;)
     
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  9. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh I see you dont have a signature. Look at the bottom of Nans post. The words are in a light grey color. In that signature you find type of insuiln, meter being used, Food Felix eats...all the little particulars. This info is for our experts to see at a glance. That way they dont have to scroll through a thread or ask the same questions over and over.you can find that info in the same section.

    Its awesome you are home testing . As you've found, its the ONLY way to keep Felix safe GOOD FOR YOU!

    Vets get only a couple of hours of diabetes education when they are in school. They have SO many things (because of all thedifferent clients) to learn, its all they get.
    Its the vet that admits they are stymied that are the keepers. ;) If they are willing to learn along with you they can be the best guide., Sadly I havent met too many humble vets.
     
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  10. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    I have added a signature with his spreadsheet linked (if I did it correctly). Can you see his spreadsheet? I will go back and add food, etc
     
  11. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    I was able to get the food added but it will not allow me another line
     
  12. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yes the spreadsheet is great! one thing that sticks out...You only test before each shot. If you test in between those shots it will give you a better idea HOW the insulin is working. This way you can fine tune a dose and get to an optimum level. Here is a post from one of our members I copied:

    We do advise testing at home, after all human diabetics always test blood sugar before injections to be sure it is safe to do so, to track the blood sugar levels between injections and to prevent any hypoglycemic events (low blood sugar which can be very dangerous) Same applies to our furry kids. Protocols here are based on human glucose meters, but many do use a pet meter. However pet meters and strips are more expensive and you do have to order online. You can get a low cost meter and strips at Walmart, the ReliOn Prime. This will do if or until you decide to use something else. Testing is the best way to keep Big safe.
     
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  13. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    hmmm thats interesting. I am terrible with computer stuff so I will let another member help you with that. My signature hasnt changed in so long I barely remember having one lol
     
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  14. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You have found a safe place here for Felix. Its been a bit slow lately Hold on for more replies!

    And again WELCOME to the bast site on this planet to help you navigate this disease!
    jeanne
     
  15. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    Was finally able to get the food and meter used added and his spreadsheet appears to be linked correctly
     
  16. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    looks good! Boy you are doing better than I ever did lol
    Does Felix fight you at test time? I know my Trouble did he was strong too! It took two of us to test him.
     
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  17. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    And just look at Felix! Hes beautiful!:bighug:
     
  18. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Im going to delete the post requesting Marje help with your signature
     
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  19. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    Thank you. He’s one of our most well behaved kitties we have ever had. He doesn’t fight the testing at all.
     
  20. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Ooooohhh you are very lucky! :D
     
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  21. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I have to leave for a while but please hang on for more advice ok?
     
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  22. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    Ok. Thanks
     
  23. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I second Jeanne's comment about needing some between-shot tests. We evaluate doses based on how low they take the BG, and you can't really tell that from pre-shots.

    That said, we can squeeze some information out of the pre-shot numbers! Felix was looking very very good on 0-1.0U earlier in the year-- not at remission, but maybe getting pretty close. Fast-forward a few months, and we're seeing higher numbers-- pinks and yellows, even a red-- on the same doses. So, here are some possibile explanations:

    1) dose is too low because of changing insulin needs. It happens.
    2) dose is "too low" but for a specific reason-- there's something else going on causing discomfort, and that is raising BG. How are his teeth? Any possibility of some kind of infection brewing (UTI, etc.)?
    3) dose is too high

    Let me explain the last one, which seems very weird. Basically, there are safety mechanisms in a cat's body that try to raise BG endogenously when BG is perceived to be too low. We call this "bouncing"-- a cat goes low, and then the next thing you know, they are sky-high! The thing about bounces is that they can last for up to three days, so a bouncy cat spends a lot more time high than low. They're getting too much insulin (going low), but you have to get really lucky to catch that, and especially just testing at pre-shots, you'll almost always see high numbers.

    I kind of suspect that might be what is happening with Felix (especially since he started this run of high numbers with some green pre-shots), but there's really no way to tell without more data between shots. And of course, we want to be able to eliminate the other possibilities as well.

    One more thing going forward: although Prozinc is sometimes dosed on a "sliding scale" where the pre-shot determines the dose, we have found that a lot of cats do better (and have more easily understood patterns) if they get a consistent dose morning and night. In Felix's case, that might mean having to drop the dose to something you think you can shoot safely twice a day, maybe to 0.5U, and getting some of those between-shot numbers to assess the dose.

    Lastly, seconding Jeanne again: Felix is a gorgeous floofy guy!
     
  24. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    Thank you for replying with such helpful information. I’ve read up on the bouncing but I’ve never had it explained that well. I teach school so I won’t be home as much starting Tuesday but will start immediately with .5 morning and night and check pre and post. How long after the shot should I check post?
     
  25. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    Going to tag some Prozinc folks, @Deb & Wink @Panic , for some more thoughts on this.

    Two key times in insulin action that you want to keep in mind when deciding when to test are insulin "onset" and BG "nadir" (lowest point). For Prozinc, a typical onset time is 2-3hrs post-shot, and a typical nadir time is 4-7hrs post shot.

    In the beginning, while you're trying to figure out Felix's patterns, you would ideally want to sprinkle tests around at all different times. With your work schedule and (I assume!) your desire to sleep sometime, you'll probably be getting most of your tests in the first half of the cycle, which works well given the onset and nadir times given above. In the mornings, unless you get up and shoot really early, you'll probably be getting just a +2 or +3 "out-the-door" test that might give you an idea of whether Felix is likely to see an active cycle that day. In the evening, depending on your schedule, you might get to test a bit later and possibly be able to get a handle on his nadirs. You may also sometimes be able to get some tests in the later part of the morning cycle in late afternoons, depending on when you get home.

    Especially when working (and sleeping!) it's hard/impossible to get the full picture of a cycle on any given day other than weekends, but by sprinkling tests around at different times on different days, we can put together the puzzle pieces and eventually know where to focus the testing.
     
  26. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Thank you
     
  27. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nan Is one of our best and the people she tagged are in the same category!
    You are in good hands!
    j
     
  28. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    Hello Felix's mom! :) Waving at you from SC!

    Nan's given a lot of great advice already. With Prozinc, there are two methods you can choose from to help you with dosing, SLGS (Start Low, Go Slow) and MPM (Modified Prozinc Method). You can find info on them here. To summarize, SLGS has you adjusting the dose every 7 days (so unless kitty has earned a reduction by dropping too low, you keep the same dose all week), and MPM has you adjusting every 3 days. You do this to keep the blood sugar in check and prevent them from staying in higher numbers for too long. Take a look when you have time, it's a very helpful guideline for understanding dose changes. Think of it like a schedule to maintain. Of course you can ask for dosing advice here, but we reference the dosing method as well when we offer advice. :)

    Now Deb is definitely the one to ask about dosing suggestions, but I'm honestly really liking that 0.5 dose you had him on. It's easy to feel compelled to up the dose (that "sliding" scale Nan was talking about) when you see high pre-shots, but for all you know they're being caused by the dose being too much, again like Nan explained. What you'll want to do is pick a dose (maybe 0.5 unless Deb suggests something else) and hold it at least 3 days (unless he earns a reduction!). Then we can re-evaluate.

    As for testing, let's take advantage of the few days you have at home to find out his onset and nadir. An easy way to do this is take one day and test at +2, +4, and +6, and the next day test at +1, +3, +5, and +7. Rough guideline. You're just trying to fill in the blanks throughout a few days. You can also get later tests in maybe at +9 or +10 to see how high/low he is before pre-shot. Prozinc does tend to onset at +2 (give or take an hour) so you'll want to give a snack then. I don't see it mentioned here but diabetic kitties need lots of food availability. I'm assuming you can't realistically free-feed with six cats, so just make sure to offer him food a few times a day. Usually in the first half of the cycle, at onset and 2-3 times before nadir. We don't know what those are yet though but keep that in mind. I'd feed my girl at +2, +4, and +5 for example. You also should have food available during the night - it's very possible Felix is dropping lower at night and causing your high morning pre-shots. Most of us use an auto feeder so we can get our sleep and not feel bad about stepping out of the house LOL.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  29. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Elizabeth! Waving from P.S.Ca.!:D
     
  30. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    This is some really good information. We’ve had Felix since 2011. He was a rescue so his age is just an estimate. We think he around 13 give or take. He was having massive diarrhea and has longer fur so you can imagine. We’ve tried soooo many hard foods and canned foods with him for the first year and had too many tests to remember at the vet. My vet finally put him on hydrolyzed protein by Royal Canin (by prescription) bc it has a pretty simple protein chain that his stomach is able to digest and tolerate. He was on that food and only that food u til he was diagnosed. We knew we needed a lower carb food so the vet suggested several and they caused diarrhea as we tested small amounts with the hydrolyzed protein hard food. Finally, around maybe December/January we found a rabbit based canned food by royal Canin that didn’t cause diarrhea. It has a shorter protein chain. He eats that and nothing else. We feed all other cats in a different rooms from him so there is no chance he gets ahold of ANY other food. Any other food has always caused him diarrhea (including treats) even before his diabetic diagnosis. So, I have no idea what to offer him between meals. When I say he has a stomach issue, he really does. If he finds a human food crumb in our kitchen floor, he has problems. So we’ve been very strict with his diet which has been hard bc I’ve always free fed my cats or at least given treats (snacks) between meals. I am up for any suggestions...
    This is some really good information. We’ve had Felix since 2011. He was a rescue so his age is just an estimate. We think he around 13 give or take. He was having massive diarrhea and has longer fur so you can imagine. We’ve tried soooo many hard foods and canned foods with him for the first year and had too many tests to remember at the vet. My vet finally put him on hydrolyzed protein by Royal Canin (by prescription) bc it has a pretty simple protein chain that his stomach is able to digest and tolerate. He was on that food and only that food u til he was diagnosed. We knew we needed a lower carb food so the vet suggested several and they caused diarrhea as we tested small amounts with the hydrolyzed protein hard food. Finally, around maybe December/January we found a rabbit based canned food by royal Canin that didn’t cause diarrhea. It has a shorter protein chain. He eats that and nothing else. We feed all other cats in a different rooms from him so there is no chance he gets ahold of ANY other food. Any other food has always caused him diarrhea (including treats) even before his diabetic diagnosis. So, I have no idea what to offer him between meals. When I say he has a stomach issue, he really does. If he finds a human food crumb in our kitchen floor, he has problems. So we’ve been very strict with his diet which has been hard bc I’ve always free fed my cats or at least given treats (snacks) between meals. I am up for any suggestions...
     
  31. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    I hope this reply only shows 1 time. We had a bad storm here in Georgia and internet has been acting up. My reply showed up then it showed twice and now it’s not showing. This is some really good information. We’ve had Felix since 2011. He was a rescue so his age is just an estimate. We think he around 13 give or take. He was having massive diarrhea and has longer fur so you can imagine. We’ve tried soooo many hard foods and canned foods with him for the first year and had too many tests to remember at the vet. My vet finally put him on hydrolyzed protein by Royal Canin (by prescription) bc it has a pretty simple protein chain that his stomach is able to digest and tolerate. He was on that food and only that food u til he was diagnosed. We knew we needed a lower carb food so the vet suggested several and they caused diarrhea as we tested small amounts with the hydrolyzed protein hard food. Finally, around maybe December/January we found a rabbit based canned food by royal Canin that didn’t cause diarrhea. It has a shorter protein chain. He eats that and nothing else. We feed all other cats in a different rooms from him so there is no chance he gets ahold of ANY other food. Any other food has always caused him diarrhea (including treats) even before his diabetic diagnosis. So, I have no idea what to offer him between meals. When I say he has a stomach issue, he really does. If he finds a human food crumb in our kitchen floor, he has problems. So we’ve been very strict with his diet which has been hard bc I’ve always free fed my cats or at least given treats (snacks) between meals. I am up for any suggestions...
     
  32. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    Poor fella! Sounds like his tummy's gone through a lot.
    Concerning feeding between meals, just give more of his regular food. Cats in general (but especially diabetics) do better with multiple smaller meals rather than two big ones. It's easier on the pancreas. I would take a 3oz can of Fancy Feast and quarter it, give my girl half for breakfast, a quarter for onset snack, and then split the last quarter for her other pre-nadir meals. So for Felix I would just take his breakfast and break it up a bit - largest portion with insulin of course.

    I'm not great with understanding ingredients just yet, but does plain unseasoned meat bother Felix? Many people here feed their kitties PureBites which are single-ingredient freeze-dried treats, usually just made of chicken or turkey. Another thing I ended up doing (because while she liked them, PureBites gets a little costly) was just buying raw chicken and baking it, then pulling it into treat-sized pieces and freezing the excess.
     
  33. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    I would say it will probably bother him but we haven’t tried it. It gets confusing but it’s the length of the protein chains that cause him trouble. I will try to research and contact the manufacturer of purebites. Thank you for the suggestion.
     
  34. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    I have been getting lots of readings on felix and will continue as suggested today. In the meantime, I am trying to find out more in regards to the protein chain for purebites so he can get a snack between meals. I came across this product that has a short protein chain. Would anyone mind looking it up and seeing if it is low carb? https://www.chewy.com/royal-canin-veterinary-diet/dp/128014
     
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  35. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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  36. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    First ingredient is rice, so probably not, but I wouldn't worry too much about that. In general, when there are other major health or q.o.l-affecting issues such as this, we try to address those first and then dose insulin around them.
     
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  37. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    More thoughts: in terms of short protein length foods, I am not certain but my guess is that you're going to be limited to highly manipulated foods and treats like the ones you mention. That probably cuts out things like PureBites, which are just freeze-dried meats with very little processing. As I said, though, that's OK if you have to use treats or food that are higher carb than normally recommended for diabetics-- you do what you have to, and just take the effects on BG into account.

    Do the vets have any idea what might be causing this sensitivity? Seems like it might be a deficiency in digestive enzymes, is it possible to add those back in to his diet? (I am speculating here, I have no experience with this)
     
  38. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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  39. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    His normal vet and specialist have no idea what’s causing the stomach issue. They were just thrilled when we found a food that he could tolerate. Even more thrilled when we found the low carb rabbit based canned food with the shorter protein that is good for diabetics.
     
  40. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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  41. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    If anyone can look at Felix’ spreadsheet, we have a good many readings throughout the day (every 2 hours) for the past 3 days on .5 insulin morning and night. What next?
     
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  42. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations on the testing! I cannot give dosing advice tagging for ya.
    @Deb & Wink
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
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  43. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Bouncing. Felix has some ugly, ugly bouncing going on.
    But the drop from +2 (467) to +4 (263) is encouraging.

    Looks like 2U is too much. But 0.5U is not enough.
    Perhaps try 0.75U and then we can reevaluate in a bit?
    We want to try and find a dose that you can give for several cycles.
    3 curves in 3 days! Good test data for sure!

    More of regular rabbit based food is fine for treats. You don't need a lot, for a testing time treat. A small amount like 1/4 to 1/2 a teaspoon or less would probably be enough. Think the size of a kernal of corn or a green pea.

    p.s. Would you please capitalize the insulin so it looks separate from the meter? Like this: Prozinc. Missed it at first glance. Even a ; or | separator would make it stand out better.
    Yes, it's on the SS, but when we can look at the signature and see the insulin "at a glance" it's really helpful.

    @JanetNJ is another Prozinc user to tag.
    Bron has never used Prozinc and doesn't like to comment on dosing.
     
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  44. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'll remove that tag . Sorry I just couldnt remember.
     
  45. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Deb ...one of these days this stuff HAS to start sinking in this thick skull.:(
     
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  46. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Thank you. I have changed the Prozinc in the signature to be capitalized and added a period after the meter. We have ordered some purebites to “try” and see if his stomach will tolerate. I bet he can since they are 1 ingredient. They will be here Monday late afternoon. I will go to .75 starting tonight’s dose. Do I need to continue checking his blood every 2 hours for the next 3 days until we reevaluate? I also want to thank every single person who has graciously taken their personal time to give advice and help me through this.
     
  47. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    No, testing every 2 hours should not be necessary. Some tests in the middle of the cycle are helpful. Or get that +2 to tell you which direction the BG levels are headed. If you are a late night person, test around +4 or +5 if you are normally up then.

    If the +2 BG test is lower than the pre-shot, you might want to set an alarm to test later in the middle of the cycle. Just in case the BG levels take a nose dive.

    Jeanne, you are absolutely amazing as our "welcome ambassador". Remember, no need to apologize here. Just a heads up for you.:bighug:

    If we could all get everything right, all the time, we would never need this message board in the first place.
    Still seeking that "state of perfection" after 6+ decades of life. Will be seeking until my death. Long time off, knock on wood.

    I used to have so many little sticky notes by the side of my computer, that sticky notes would be buried in the next layer of sticky notes. ;)
    After Wink died, I hardly posted for 2+ years. Took time to get back in the thick of things and learn who the new players were.
     
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  48. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Jul 22, 2020
    move completed the 3 days at .75. The purebites came Sunday and so far so good, he’s not had any issues with his bowel movements. How many pieces should I leave out for him for daytime and how many for nighttime? I start back to work today so I’ll be leaving the house around 7:15 and will be home around 3:45. Starting tonight, should I increase his insulin dose? Thanks
     
  49. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Apr 10, 2019
    I think he needs an increase but confirm with Deb.

    If you're referring to his mini meals during the day/night you need to be using his regular food, not PureBites. There are no carbs/almost no calories in them so they're good as treats but not for mini meals.

    For mini meals you can do a couple tablespoons each time, basically just a few bites worth.
     
  50. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Even though I'm pretty tech savy, its taking me a minute to get used to a message board. This is my first mb I've ever used :(. I'm trying to get the hang of when and where to click reply so to get the right person/people. Felix is probably ready for an increase. Should I go to 1?
     
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  51. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    To tag someone you just type, example:
    @jt and trouble (GA)

    THE @ and first letter has no space then you just type the name you want. It must match the name on the avatar.
    Hope that makes sense Who did you want to look at your sheet?

    ALSO Start a new thread with "Need help with increase dosage" add a ? that way it will get our attention

    HOPE THIS HELPS

    Sorry I deleted the last sentence because I hadnt scrolled down to current readings. :blackeye:
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  52. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

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    Thank you for explaining the @name. I was going to ask @Deb & Wink since she was the one who suggested the last increase. I was only able to get 1 reading today between am and pm. I teach and started back today. He is on a 7am and 7pm schedule this week but will go a little earlier next week since the kids will be coming back to school. If I start a new thread, how will Deb or anyone else know what we’ve been doing the past few days?
     
  53. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You just link this thread from your task bar and state its continued.
     
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  54. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    @Panic she also talked about increasing. ;)
     
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  55. Panic

    Panic Well-Known Member

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    Can't believe they're actually sending kids back to school right now! :eek:
    I do think from the looks of it he's due for an increase, but hopefully Deb will be around this evening to confirm. She's really good at seeing things on the spreadsheets I overlook. :D
     
  56. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    me either. wow
     
  57. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Tag us.

    Yes, I do think that Felix is ready for an increase in dose. Up to 1U please. You'll probably want to be around to monitor on the dose increase. So if that means waiting until tomorrow night, 7/29 then wait.

    He's not getting out of the yellow BG ranges during the cycle. Of course, it's always possible that Felix is dropping lower earlier in the cycle, now that you are not there to test him during the AM cycle. It's also possible that Felix is still clearing the bounce. But I don't think either of those situations are happening right now.

    You want Felix back down into the blue number ranges again.

    Would it be possible for you to test later in the PM cycle, than that +2 test? If you are one of those people that have a hard time falling back to sleep, that might not work for you. Some people set an alarm. I did, when Wink was running in really low numbers, under 70-80.

    The other possibility is to shift your shot schedule to meet your new work schedule better. So for instance if you test, feed, shoot at 6 am and 6 pm now, switch that to 5 am and 5 pm. Try to get one more BG test in, before you leave for work. Find what works for you, these are only suggestions remember.
     
  58. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    @Panic @j
    @Deb & Wink thanks! We will gradually back him up so I can get something past +2 after his dose in the evening. If I do 5am, should I try to get one before leaving for work around 7:15 in the morning or just focus on getting one before I go to sleep?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  59. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I would suggest you do get another one before you leave for work.
    What a cutie Felix is
     
  60. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    A morning test also please. Before you leave for work.

    Each cycle (a cycle is basically 12 hours, so 2 cycles in a 24 hour period) has it's own quirks and can be different. So you want to test in both cycles.
     
  61. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    @Deb & Wink
    We have given the last increase amount of 1 unit am and pm for three days. Felix has been getting the mini-meals as suggested. We are noticing a drop at +8. This is when he is given his mini meal (no other time to give bc of work and an auto feeder will not work with wet food. At this time, we are unaware of ANY hard food that would satisfy his diabetic and stomach issue needs. As you can see on the spreadsheet his PMPS is pretty high. Could his mini-meal be contributing to this high PMPS? Do you suggest keeping him at 1 unit (since we have seen a few blue numbers during the day and maybe replacing his mini-meal with a few purebite treats?
     
  62. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, you can use the auto feeder with wet food. Depending on the auto feeder, you can put ice packs under the compartment with the food. If no space for ice packs, you can make "frozen hockey pucks", small portions of the wet food that would fit in the compartments.

    Instead of replacing the mini-meal with a few Purebite treats, try the wet food in the auto feeder for a few days instead. Wet food won't go bad that quickly. There are plenty of cats that graze, and come back for hours before they have finished off their wet food.

    The pre-shot tests are the last ones to come down. It's the mid-cycle nadirs that you want to see, to know what the dose adjustments should be.
    Feeding the mini-meal after the middle of the cycle, after about +6, could be part of the reason for the higher pre-shot in the evening. So see if you can shift that meal to earlier. If food is fed after the insulin is "used up" the food will simply raise the BG levels higher later in the cycle.

    It could be that the insulin simply doesn't last long enough for Felix. That can happen for many reasons, only 1 of which is the food. Cats are never the same from day to day. More active one day, sleeping more another day. It makes managing feline diabetes challenging.

    Some cats rise significantly in the last 30-60 minutes of the cycle. The only way to find that out, would be to try and test at that time. The +11, +11.5.

    It will also be useful if you could get at least 1 more PM cycle test, every day, before you head off to sleep is a good time.

    It's hard to "read between the lines" looking at the SS, but it looks to me like Felix is dropping lower in the AM cycle, before the +8 when you are able to get a test. Then, he is bouncing up from those low blues, because his body isn't used to those numbers. It would probably be ok to increase the dose to 1.25U. But please monitor that dose increase with a couple more tests. For several cycles, please.
     
  63. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi I was doing a search and found this about auto feeders and wet food posted by some members , hope it helps. This is what one member said I purchased the Pet Safe 5 compartment auto feeder to prevent the middle of the night awakenings for food. There is a small compartment inside for an ice pack. I put wet food in two of the compartments at night and place a large ice pack on top of the feeder to help keep it chilled. Some here freeze the wet food and place in the feeder so it takes a while to defrost at a later time
     
  64. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Here is another suggestion I found when I did a search on this forum. There are lots of people here that use the PetSafe 5 auto-feeder....it allows you to program up to 5 meals and works fine with wet food!!

    You can put an ice cube in with the food to help keep it cool and fresh....and then when the compartment opens, you've already added extra water to the food! (which we recommend anyway)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  65. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    If you ever need to find something you can go to the top right where it says search and type a few words about what you are looking for.
    For instance I typed in auto feeder wet food and post will come up about auto feeders and using wet food . Hope this helps
     
    Deb & Wink and Bradshaw & Felix like this.
  66. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
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    Found this on Amazon for wet food look like it got very good reviews
     
  67. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  68. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    @Deb & Wink
    Thank you. I had no idea they made such a thing but I’ve also never been in a position to look :bookworm: I see @Diane Tyler's Mom has added some info regarding that. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I will order something immediately and hopefully it’ll be here Monday for use starting Tuesday unless I luck up with a Sunday delivery. His new “schedule” will start Monday with new times and be much earlier so I should be able to get a test in before going to work, maybe 1 close to +10 or + 11 and a couple before going to bed. Y’all rock as I’m still learning...
     
  69. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    You are welcome :cat:
     
  70. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Glad the info about wet food being ok for an automatic feeder was helpful. Hope yours arrives on time so you get to start to use it before your new schedule kicks in.

    When threads get long, like this one, it's a good idea to start a new thread and link the old one into the new one.

    Would you please do that for us when you get a chance?

    @Diane Tyler's Mom is great at posting research on products.:bookworm: We are lucky to have her helping out here.:bighug:
     
  71. Bradshaw & Felix

    Bradshaw & Felix Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
  72. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Aww thank you Deb I appreciate it :bighug::bighug:
     

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