7/31 Oberon +8 356, AMPS 322, +4 272, +8 284, +10 341, PMPS 340

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Lisa & Oberon, Jul 31, 2020.

  1. Lisa & Oberon

    Lisa & Oberon Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2020
    yesterday's convo

    Pretty sure last night was a furshot; I didn't smell anything but it just didn't feel like it got in, and it doesn't seem like numbers dropped overnight at all. This morning was fine, though, and at +4 he's right about where he was yesterday at this time.

    The vet finally called back today. I told him that yesterday I started giving 0.5 U twice a day to see how it would go. What he'd like me to do instead is test every morning, and if BG is over 300 give 1 U. If BG is under 300, skip the shot. Test in the evening if he got insulin. He thinks I may end up only needing to give insulin maybe 2-3 times per week. Realistically, though, Oberon has been at or near 300 nearly every day, so he'd probably be getting it just about daily, and I've read that 1U once a day is a (maybe less preferable) alternative approach to 0.5 U twice a day, so it may really kind of all amount to the same thing. And since my syringes are marked in units, not half units, it would be easier to be consistent about the amount. Thoughts?
     
  2. Sue and Luci

    Sue and Luci Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    I'm gonna be blunt here. Your vet hasn't got a clue.

    Lantus is a depot drug. Best to give a consistent dose every day, 12 hours apart. The tell tale sign of the fact that the vet doesn't have a clue is to make a decision about whether or not to give insulin at pre-shot test. Absolutely the wrong time to decide what the dose should be unless of course it's below 50 on a human meter.

    So with that said, please read the stickies above about dosing, syringes, etc. It sounds like you may have an incorrect syringe. I use Relion syringes from Walmart - they're marked with half marks.

    Here's a great place to start reading: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/the-basics-new-to-the-group-start-here.18139/

    Keep posting your questions and you'll get help and advice from folks here about how best to steer your kitty to remission. :bighug:
     
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  3. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Let's give the 0.5 unit dose a chance to see how it's doing. It'll take 5-7 days for the depot to build and for you to really evaluate the dose. Unfortunately the fur shot restarted that cycle count. I am the author of many a fur shot - it happens. :bighug:

    The other time you tried 1 unit, you didn't shoot the PM cause you felt the PMPS was too low to shoot. If you are only giving one shot a day, you are letting Oberon be high for half the day - not a good situation. I think it's better to start with 0.5 units, get some depot going, then we'll evaluate if you need to increase the dose. In the mean time, you have time to get some of those 1/2 unit marked syringes. Cats are sensitive to small dose changes, so you'll need those syringes.

    I think your vet doesn't have much experience with depot insulins. Here we determine how to change the dose based on the nadirs, or how low the dose takes the cat, with little consideration to the preshots.

    The second time around on insulin, it can be harder to get them into remission again, which I presume is your goal. If so, you need to get him to a place where he is seeing healing green numbers so his pancreas can heal. One shot a day won't do that.
     
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  4. Lisa & Oberon

    Lisa & Oberon Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2020
    Thanks, you've both confirmed what my gut was telling me. I'll keep going with 0.5 U twice a day and see how things go.

    ETA: Also, I just ordered new syringes and they'll be here Monday/Tuesday.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  5. LindyNova

    LindyNova Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019
    Hi Lisa. I just wanted to pop in to welcome you and to assure you that you & Oberon--King of Fairies--(hope he doesn't eat any) are in the absolute BEST place for treatment assistance with Feline Diabetes. I also received a lot of misinformation from my vet, and...as much I like her (been going there for over 20 years with 4 different pets) I will not be taking her advice in treatment for Nova's diabetes. Your gut and the advice from the members above is SOLID. Keep up the good work. You should probably choose a protocol...SLGS or TR and when you decide, put it in your signature.

    Again...welcome & best wishes on your journey to remission, again...if possible. :):bighug:
     
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  6. Lisa & Oberon

    Lisa & Oberon Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2020
    Thanks! Sounds like you and I have about the same relationship with our vets (15 years, 6 cats, one iguana, and a sad bunny experience). I'm learning that mine tends to take a "wait and see" approach that may not work here. (Oberon is definitely the king around here... totally bullies his siblings Puck and Ariel.)

    284 at +8... not dropping nearly as much as yesterday, it seems. (I'll check again at +10.) Normal variation at this stage of the game, or did I somehow mess up this dose as well?
     
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  7. LindyNova

    LindyNova Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019
    Completely normal at this stage. Hang tight, the lantus takes a few cycles to build that depot. Read all you can, especially about the SLGS & TR protocols, and then read it again. There is SO much info here it is hard to absorb. Was Oberon sick when coming out of remission?

    p.s. Love the Shakespear references in the cat names! In my college days...many moons ago.... we would ALWAYS go see Midsummer Night's Dream at the outdoor theatres.
     
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  8. Lisa & Oberon

    Lisa & Oberon Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2020
    He had mild pancreatitis about 3 weeks ago and that may have kicked this off. From what I've read it sounds like the faster I get BG under control the greater the chance of going back into remission. Been reading like crazy and I think I've got the basics down, but there's a lot of detail. Still reading!

    We started with Ariel; my kid was 5 and liked Disney, but we decided it could also be Shakespeare, so when we got her brother Puck (same feral litter; took a little longer to catch him) and later Oberon we kept the trend going. They're also all moons of Uranus and my husband's degree is in Astronomy, so that worked, too.

    OK, 341 at +10... definitely ready to shoot in 2 hours.
     
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  9. LindyNova

    LindyNova Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2019
    Bouncing from the Blues. I suspect... as he heals completely....that his #s will come down. and..even tho the Zero dry is OK for diabetics, I would try to eliminate it from his diet. :)
     
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