? BG curve times

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Gill & Mac (UK), Oct 10, 2020.

  1. Gill & Mac (UK)

    Gill & Mac (UK) Member

    Aug 19, 2020
    In the past we had severe problems doing a full BG curve on Mac - not techique now just a "not having that" cat and after the time we did it he was so spooked \ annoyed that we had trouble doing his shots for several days.
    After we finally got him settled back down we didn't want to risk having the shots issue again so we decided to have his BG curve done at the vets.
    We realised that these can be a bit stress affected but it was better than nothing. He has now had 2 BG curves done there (10 days after his change to prozinc and then 10 days after the next dose change). The issue is that he refused to eat at all while he was there so had his breakfast with us then nothing all day whereas he usually has several meals throughout. The 2 curves worked ok I suppose purely as an indication for seeing the difference the increase made. But I feel they are not a true indication of his real life.
    Interestingly the day before the last curve was done we tried for a start, middle & end of cycle BG reading and managed to get them. This showed up the difference
    +6. Thurs home 15.6 Fri vets 15.6
    +11.5 Thurs home 30.3
    +10 Fri vets 8.5 (which was still dropping from their +8 of 10.3).

    I'm assuming the difference was that he had no food at the vets but had with us?

    Having seen this discrepancy we are going to try to do the next 10 day curve ourselves. We are still unlikely to get every 2hrs from him and don't want to send him back into shot issues.
    But having managed one of every 4 hours last time we think we could get every 3 hours so 0, +3, +6, +9 & +12. That way we will hopefully get more of a curve but also hit the lowest part for a reading? does this seem a reasonable plan? Or would different hours be better? I'm not sure when nadir on prozinc hits so any advice would be very gratefully received
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2013
    Most cats on Prozinc nadir somewhere in the +5 to +7 hour time frame. But ECID (Every Cat is Different) and ECID (Every Cycle is Different) meaning the nadir time can change a bit from cycle to cycle. It's not set in stone.

    Do you think you could add a +15 to your proposed curve test? A curve can be every 2 hours for 12 hours, from one pre-shot to the next pre-shot. Or a curve can be done over an 18 hour stretch (or as close as you can come), testing every 3 hours.

    Random tests during the cycle can also be done, in lieu of curves. So a +5 and +7 one cycle, a +4 and +6 another cycle. Mix it up a bit, to get a clearer picture of what is going on with Mac.

    That is one issue with a curve done at the vet. Cats don't eat on the same schedule as they do at home, and many cats refuse to eat at all when they are in a strange place like the vet clinic. Too stressed out by all the strange people and the surroundings and maybe even strange animals and barking dogs.

    Do you use "bribes" (rewards) to get your cat to cooperate? If Mac is food driven, a special food treat that he ONLY gets at test time can be effective. Or some brushing, playtime, special attention, hugs, what ever your cat really, really loves can gain you some cooperation.

    No link to the SS in your signature?
  3. Gill & Mac (UK)

    Gill & Mac (UK) Member

    Aug 19, 2020
    Hi Deb
    Thanks so much for your reply it's really useful to know roughly when the nadir falls I thought it may be +6ish. It's interesting at the vets last time that it was still dropping at +10 - shows the difference food makes.

    We can certainly try for +15 but we'll see on the day as he may be rather grumpy by then both through already having been tested several times so far and because it will be 11.45 pm so even a foodie like Mac won't be interested in food or treats at that time.
    Yes we do use treat and fusses as bribes at test time and shot time.

    We're doing a full curve this time because the vet asked for one to get a true reflection of his life on the increased dose as the vets one was distorted due to not eating(but did show the difference going from 1iu to 1.6iu had made as they did the last one too).

    Once we've done that curve I do like your idea of throwing in a couple of random time tests on odd days so could always try for a +15 then if this time is a no go.

    If the vet does want a dose increase after the curve then I may ask about trying swapping his food instead. His wet food was already low carb (5.3% and 2.02% - he has only 1 pouch of the higher one then akk the rest are the lower one) but the urinary dried food that is left down is very high (37%). Reading the makers website they are only supposed to need this for 6months after the crystals clear but the vets never told us that (we have mentioned several times over the years that all 3 cats eat it) so they've been on it for approx 11 years. So it would be no medical problem changing it and I am a bit concerned of the effect it may be having on my two civvie girls eating that high a carb food now that I know that is a bad thing.
    I have hesitated so far to make the change because a)Mac was already on his insulin and I read that making the change whilst on it would affect his BG so make it more difficult to judge the effect the insulin was having b) the vet wasn't too concerned about making the swap - actually did not try to sell me diabetic food either (nice to see) and was happy to keep food as it is as Mac eats little dried c) main reason at the moment one of my civvies eats 99% dried (ex-stray so doesn't turn up for wet food or want it), my other eats 80% wet 20% dried. Mac probably eats about 95% wet:and only 5% dried so I am worried that by changing to Thrive dried that it may tempt him to eat more dried ? So I decide it's not worth it then worry about my girls and Mac and go back and forth in my mind so just do not know what to do for the best.......

    I haven't set up a spreadsheet because we have done very few tests whilst he has been in such low doses as when we tried we nearly couldn't give him his next several shots as he was so wary & unhappy. His 2 BG curves have been at the vets so didn't seem worth that much to put on. On the plus side we did manage to do those 3 tests ourselves that one day. But still hardly any info to put on.

    Thanks again for your help Deb and sorry for the very long answer to your questions!
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
    Deb & Wink likes this.

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