Buddy's Mom always needs help Part 11

I have been ordering YA dry food for Buddy, he loves kibble but never cared much for this. I have been ordering 54/26 Cat & Kitten Formula, just noticed the bag was getting low so I ordered another bag, while on the phone I asked the order person to send me a sample of 54/24 Mature Formula. When it came to the house Buddy started getting excited, but it was about the sample, he could smell it. I had given him his Royal Canin Glycobalance wet food (he loves)w/FortiFlora (on top-which he loves) and he would not have anything to do with it, YEA! YEA!(cost me too much money) all he wanted was the YA Mature Formula. The only thing that came out of the box was the sample, while Buddy was going around & around my legs meowing, I could not do anything else because of him, I gave him some of the sample and it was love at first bite. Now, at least I could move away from him to keep from falling down, my only problem now is I have an unopened sack of the Cat & Kitten Formula and an empty sample bag. Any suggestion's on how I could some how get my money out of the unwanted bag of YA, so I could buy a bag of the Mature Formula (Buddy loves) before I need to order another case of Royal Canin.

 

You could try to sell it on Supply Closet and just explain Buddy prefers his YAZ Mature so you want to at least cover cost of the other bag.

 

I had thought of that and I may just do that. When you order from them the shipping is free, so I would probably need to pay the shipping and sell for a reduced amount. I would not buy it on Supply Closet unless I got it for a reduced amount.

 

You might contact YA and see if they'll take it back/refund your money. If Buddy doesn't like it, some companies will guarantee it. Never hurts to ask.

 

Thank you, that is a good idea.

 

Whoops I misread and thought the cat and kitten was EVO. Otherwise I would've said what Djamila said

 

Talked to person at YA on Monday, there are going to refund my CC and I ordered the one that Buddy liked.

I am going to the vet today to pick up script for Lantus, if you order from Mark's Marine Pharmacy would you let me know how long it took to receive your meds . Does anyone have an opinion which would be best deal the pins or vial.

Yesterday, out of the blue Buddy's #73, had hard time getting numbers back up. I don't think he is feeling well either. I have an appointment this morning, I am worried about leaving Buddy.

 

Hey Teresa I believe the pens are the best deal but I'll let the others speak to that more. When do you plan to start the Lantus?

How's Buddy acting? I know you said he didn't feel well...what makes you think so? Is he eating?

 

I think it can take only a few days, Teresa. You'll want to pay the extra bit for a special container to keep it cool until you receive it.

People order the 5 pack of pens. They're 3 mL each and the unopened ones are good until their expiry day if stored properly in your fridge. That can be up to 2 years ahead. The top part of a pen can be removed so the rubber seal of the insulin cartridge is exposed. That allows you to put a syringe into it as you would a vial. The difference with these is that you don't inject air into the cartridge. Post for info when you have the Lantus and are ready to start.

Those spikes and dives can make them feel ill. Teasel is still bouncy but much less so on Lantus. He feels better as a result.

Did you have a problem getting your vet to agree to Lantus? I highly recommend that you go read the yellow info stickies about Lantus. There are quite firm guidelines on how best to use it. Ask a lot of questions and introduce yourself on the Lantus forum when you're ready to go. It's a very large, very busy forum and can be overwhelming at first.

 

He was not eating and his bowels were loose. When I would try to pick him up he would try to get away from me.

 

We can help you with all the details of using Lantus pens when you have them, Teresa. Many people here order Lantus from Canada because the cost saving is huge. It's a reputable Canadian pharmacy that ships to the US all the time.

 

I just did not know how my vet would feel about me ordering Buddy's meds from outside the U.S., he might not care.

 

Could it be his pancreatitis flaring? I hope he feels better soon!

In regards to Lantus, I kept reading how the pens were better than the vial so that's what I got. I think it took 4-5 days for me to get mine from Mark's. Only downside was it was signature required so I had to ask my Mum to hang out with Maury for the day since I was working. You can request them just to leave it but it was kind of warm so I didn't want to do that. If I can't get next order from the Supply Closet, I might have to do no signature and leave a cooler outside asking post to put it in there

 

Pain? Panc flare?

 

I have been gone and getting ready to go after Buddy's script, which is in the next town over. I am not for sure what is wrong. Seems like the left side is the side he does not want to be touched. This happened back several months ago and his doc saw something on an ultra sound, then when we went back he said it had not grown and he has not lost any weight so let's leave it alone.
This worries me.

 

I could order from supply closet, but I really want to get his Lantus from a pharmacy. The reason I want the pens is because there is more insulin in 5 pens. What concerns me is that you cannot put insulin back in the pens if you draw out too much, which I always do. I don't know for sure, hopefully it will pass.

 

It's quite easy to draw out only a tiny bit more than you need and expel the extra onto a tissue. You'll get good at it in no time.

 

Just got script from vet, script is written for lantus insulin, not vial or pens. I asked him about it, he said it is written that way so I could get the vial or pens. I don't think he liked it that I asked him about the script and he only gave me 1 refill.

 

I called Mark's Marine Pharmacy and they said that I could get either the vial or pens. The pharmacy said I would only need 1 pen because if I gave my kitty more than the starting dose of 1.5 units twice a day, it would kill him. They said I would not want to buy 5 pens because they would ruin on me. The vet acted like I was crazy when I said Buddy would be using more than 1.5 units twice a day, surely I am wrong not them. If anyone knows would you let me know before I order the wrong thing.

 

Most people with established diabetic cats order the 5 pack of pens because the expiry date is usually 2 years down the line. As for what Lantus dose to start on, post on the Lantus forum for advice. I dropped Teasel's dose only a small amount when I switched from ProZinc to Lantus. It's quite likely that Buddy's Lantus dose will be in a similar range to his ProZinc dose now. That can change over time once he becomes better regulated.

 

My prescription was written the same way so I ordered a box of 5 Lantus Solstar pens from Marks Marine Pharmacy
From their website, I ordered what is squared in green:

 

Thank you.

 

You're welcome .

 

Hi Teresa,
I don't see Buddy's SS numbers for yesterday. Is everything OK?

 

I just have not had the time to put them in yet. I hope everything is alright.

 

Just checking, Teresa. Before you switch to Lantus, take the time to read about the two main dosing methods, TR and SLGS. You'll want to choose one as the basis for dosing Buddy. They're both very methodical and give clear instructions on how to keep or change doses depending on BG numbers. It's quite different from the way we do things with ProZinc.

 

I guess I forgot the whole day

 

No worries, Teresa, it happens sometimes. With all your test lately, are you getting enough rest? Remember to take care of you too!

 

I read both of them at one time, but I need to read everything again. The reply I got from the Lantus forum said I could start Buddy at 5 u. The vet yesterday and the pharmacy at Mark's Marine Pharmacy, both said to start at 1.5 u. The pharmacy said if I gave him more than 1.5u, it might kill him. I think my vet was upset with me.

 

@StephG is a really good one to consult since Chuck was around 8.0U (I think) of Prozinc before switching to Lantus.

 

I can never get enough rest.

 

Thank you, I will get in touch with him.

 

Steph is a regular on here, Teresa. Her kitty is Chuck.

When I switched Teasel he was at a 3 u dose of ProZinc and I only dropped it to 2.5 u and began slowly raising it from there in the days after. The pharmacist at Marks might be mistakenly thinking that Buddy is a new diabetic, in which case you would start at a much lower dose. However, as the Lantus folks said - and you can trust their judgment - you can try a 5 u dose to start.

If your vet doesn't prescribe Lantus he might tell you to start low because he has no experience of kitties' reactions to it when they've been on another insulin for many months before. He might be upset because you're choosing to do something different. The hope is that you'll get Buddy doing better and then you can talk to him about his progress.

 

Chuck was at 8.2 units ProZinc (barely hitting blues on that dose then bounced) and we switched to 8 units lantus because it's easier to measure whole and half units on u100 syringes.
He did ok on the dose. Stayed pretty flat until the Depot filled up and then we started increasing by half units. We are now up to 15.5 units twice a day but that's because i think he has one or both high dose conditions.
After a quick glance at your SS I think Buddy would do fine on 5 units for the switch. I wouldn't want to go all the way back to 1.5 units.

 

Thank you, I really appreciate your reply. I do not want to go back to 1.5u either. Of course I am always afraid of giving too much insulin, but I want to make sure I am giving him enough. Which do you think works the best for you and chuck Lantus or Prozinc. How do you know depot is filled.

 

I think he did not like it because I was questioning him, hopefully he was busy and will forget.

 

You have to do what's best for Buddy, Teresa. I understand not wanting to upset your vet though. You need his help with all the other stuff.

 

He told me that he did not prescribe ProZinc, that the other doctor did and she was the one Buddy saw at first. Buddy does have another vet that he can go to, but this takes after hours call, you can always get in touch with him and he operated on Buddy. When I told his other vet about his surgery, she told that they were not prepared to handle something like that.

Maybe, I was just too concerned about getting the script correct, so the pharmacy in Canada would not call him. I don't know if U.S. docs would mind if you got meds from Canada.

 

What insulin does he prescribe usually? Vetsulin? There are a lot of people here whose vets write scripts for Lantus from Canada.

 

My vet didn't care where I got it from as long as it wasn't expired and unopened. She's really cool though. She actually said, "you've got this handled. You only need me for insulin refills." I nervously agreed and added for all other medical issues too. She was impressed by the SS.
Chuck is doing WAY better on lantus. He still bounces but not in the reds and blacks as much and stays blue longer than he did on ProZinc. By +8 on prozinc chuck was already on his way up and fast. He seems more awake and playful on it too but that could be from better numbers and smaller bounces.
I'm very happy we switched. It's more affordable too. I was paying $110 for 400 units of prozinc and you can get lantus from marks for about $160-175 (+/-) for 1500 units. I once figured out I was paying around $0.27 per unit of prozinc and around $0.11 per unit of lantus. At over 5 units that adds up! I have a private connection where I can get a vial for $45 so that's $0.045 per unit. My bank account is doing much better on lantus too!
Edited to add:
It is less stressful overall for me too. The drops are slower and not much guess work for the dose. It is absolutely stressful when your shooting full doses on green numbers! I thought I was going to have a panic attack over shooting 15 units on a 64! But I have a lot of data and could monitor so it turned out just fine.
As far as the Depot. I really don't know how long it takes. We stayed on the starting dose for 5 days. Then started increasing. Chuck isn't normal in any way so his depot action is probably not normal either!

 

Teresa, my vet was fine with ordering from the pharmacy in Canada. It's a legitimate and reliable place. Remember also though that you could try that discount card at a pharmacy here in the US if it makes you more comfortable. You don't have to order from Canada - it's just that many of us find it less expensive and quite convenient to just get it delivered. But it's absolutely fine to go with what makes you comfortable.

 

I should have asked him which insulin he prescribed, but I did not. He might be fine with me getting insulin from Canada. I will find out, he only wrote me a script with 1 refill and at first he wanted to call it in, so the next refill he will get to call in.

This doctor is very busy, he owns this clinic and is always coming in after hours for emergency's. Maybe he had something else on his mind.

 

I did enter info on that discount card, but it asked for age, when I entered a date for Buddy, it said you must be 18 years of age to belong to that program. I did enter a date to make him 18, but on his prescription it has dob, which is not 18. I cannot enter my name because I am on medicare and that can be checked really easy.

I feel comfortable ordering from Canada, I have just heard on TV over the years people saying you should not order from Canada. I guess I was afraid he would not write me a script. I cannot afford to buy Lantus from a U.S. pharmacy, and I think lantus will help Buddy. His vet agreed Lantus was a better insulin

 

Buddy is getting to the point he is using a vial of ProZinc in a month and a couple of days. I cannot afford this, I am hoping it cost me less and also helps Buddy's little pancreas.

Have you ever had any problems when you buy from the Supply Closet. I know that there is 1 person everyone trust, do you know of any more.

 

As far as reputable Canadian pharmacies go, Teresa, no need to worry about that. The controls on our drugs, dispensing, etc. are every bit as stringent as yours in the US. You won't be getting some expired knockoff made in Timbuktu.

 

I'm not worried about it being a reputable pharmacy. The U.S. charges too much for medicine's, I cannot figure out why this country cannot give it's citizen's health coverage, like every other country in the civilized world.

 

Well, that's a whole other ball of wax!

 

I know.

 

I have bought from a couple members but they aren't selling a lot. Usually just getting rid of their supply after remission or .
The prices aren't much different than Mark's. So whichever way you're comfortable with should work. You probably have more of a "guarantee" on the insulin when ordering from Mark's.

 

If it was someone on the forum that I had correspondence with, I would be more comfortable purchasing from the Supply Closet. Guess we are lucky to have more than 1 way to purchase Lantus.

How long does it take for your kitty to use a 10ml vial of Lantus.

 

Chuck is getting 31 units a day now so 10ml vial lasts about 32 days.
A pen last about 10 days.
Just divide the number of units in the vial (1000) or pen (300) by the number of units your cat is getting a day and you'll get a rough estimate of how long it will last.
I didn't really have much conversation or interaction with the people I bought from. I just decided I'd go for it and trust them. It was around $90 (with syringes) the first time and $50 the second.

 

Thank you. I really appreciate that you would take the time to give me this info. This will really help me make a decision.

 

Buddy has not been feeling well for a few days, I have been trying to take care of him at home. I have been giving him 1/4 of a pill of an appetite stimulant at AMPS & PMPS. I have several times lowered his dose because of him not wanting to eat. He has not thrown up, his stools are a little loose. I have been giving him 1/4 of a Cerenia pill daily, one day I gave him a syringe of Bupe. the rest of the time I have been giving him what the doctor gave him for pain after surgery.

 

I'm sorry Buddy is not feeling well, Teresa . Do you think it's a pancreatitis flare? Just being precautious, have you tested for ketones?

 

I have been testing for ketones, it has been coming back negative. Yesterday, I went out and bought ketones strips, this brand is different from what I have been using. Hopefully, with this brand it will still come back negative.

It is a strong possibility that he might be having a pancreatitis flare, I have been treating him like it is a pancreatitis flare.

Have you started your new job, if not when are you starting. Is this something you have done in the past, I hope you like your job.

 

Something relatively new, starts next Tuesday . I'm more anxious about not being here with Maury of course but I will be doing the full time job testing and he will probably be OK

 

I worry so much about all my cats it is awful, but I do worry about Buddy the most. Buddy has been sick so much and then he ended having the partial pancreatectomy in February 2017. My Mother tells me you better start taking care of your self, because if something happens to you, their is no one to take care of them.

I understand your concerns about Maury, I would be the same way. When ever I look at his SS , it looks as though you have everything under control. He will probably sleep all day, my mother says when I am away Buddy will sleep until I open the door, then he gets up.

 

I have to remind myself to take care of myself too, if anything happened to me my Mum could not take care of Maury like I do. I think you are amazing with Buddy and your civvie's! But please do take care of yourself, we care about all of you

 

Thank you, that is very sweet of you. You need to get more rest and take care of yourself with a new job, sometimes a new job can be very stressful. You put a lot of time in helping other people on this forum, you may have to pass this on to someone else. When I worked I did not make lots of money and I still had to put up with the stress.

When I first get up and when I go to bed, this forum is on my mind. Wondering if everybody is doing alright and all the kitty's are OK. Then I have to take off to start giving medicine to the 3 cats who are taking meds.

It would be nice if you had a nanny cam, where you could see Maury at home, while you work.

 

1. I'd need a real smart phone to use it, and
2. No mobile phones allowed while working

I am thinking I will still be able to check in, maybe not respond right away, before and after work though

 

Maury, has been doing great and I am sure he will continue to do great. Maybe if 1day you were concerned your Mum could stop by and give Maury some extra food, or whatever could help Maury.

I have been trying to read the Lantus guidelines could I ask you a couple of questions.
1. If using a regular syringe with a pen, do you still need to hold the syringes in for a few seconds while giving a shot.
2. How do you ever get the right amount in your syringe, if you cannot shoot the excess back in. When I try to shoot out excess I always shoot out too much. I do not like the Wal-Mart syringes as well as the ones from ADW.
3. Do you think Maury is more level in numbers since he went on Lantus.

 

I can answer some of these, Teresa,

1. You open the pen and put the syringe into the cartridge's rubber seal to draw out insulin the same way as out of a vial. You don't push any air into the cartridge nor do you push extra insulin back into it. You'll quickly learn to pull out only a tiny bit more insulin than the dose you want. Then, you inject the insulin from the syringe the same way as you've been doing with ProZinc.
2. You'll learn to draw up only a tiny excess of insulin. You can turn the plunger end like a screw to carefully let out the excess onto a tissue. If you just push on the plunger you can easily expel too much. The screw turn allows much better control.
3. I can tell you that Teasel is less bouncy on Lantus than he was on ProZinc.

 

I am trying To read read the Lantus sticky's again, have not got very far. I will be glad to get Buddy's numbers on an even keel.
Do you know if you are to hold the injection for a few second when using Syringe with pen.

 

I always do that, Teresa.

 

I never have, I am sure there is some reason for this.

 

I think the idea is to give it time for the very last tiny drop of insulin to leave the syringe inside kitty'e skin. i'm not sure how effective it is, though.

 

He seems to have gentler drops on Lantus. I still inject the same way, tent skin, insert needle, push plunger in then push it hard to get the rest out. I push the plunger in as far as it will go before I put it into pen vial too so when I depress, the needle fills before I draw up amount plus a little extra.

 

Have you already stalled, Teresa?

 

I am having a dosing problem tonight, if you have time look at Buddy's SS and see what you think would be a good dose for Buddy tonight.

 

No, what Kris has me to do is test, feed, the wait 45 min., then test again. What I am looking at is his AMPS dose, which is lower than normal and at 1 point he was at 238 I believe, then came back down again. I have read if they go low at the end of a cycle, the dose needs to be lowered.

 

That's what I'm analyzing but this is only his 2nd blue PS . My gut was to say 5.0U but I hope Kris comes to chime in

 

I was thinking either 5.2U or 5.0U, it would be nice if his dose was getting lower.

 

I think either of those would be fine Teresa. Have you reached the 45 min mark yet to retest?

 

I am going to retest now.

 

Ok! Let us know what you get. I'll be here.

 

Any update, Teresa?

 

Hi all,
Checking in. I like 5.0 u or 5.2 u depending on what the next BG is.

 

Oh good! Kris is here!

 

He was @222, I gave him 5.2U. Gotta go.

He was at 222, he was higher than this morning, but I gave him 5.2U

 

It is hard telling what PMPS will find Buddy's numbers at, I may be on the forum asking for ideas. I don't know what happens with him, but he has not been feeling well. When he is not feeling well he does not eat as much. I do have appetite stimulants, but I give him 1/4 a pill 2x a day, not 1/2 a pill the bottle says. I do have other meds at home to give him and he is still drinking water. Last night when I was trying to think what dose I should Buddy, I walked into my bedroom where my older blind cat Red stays. looked down and while trying to get to her litter box she had dribbled very loose stool on the carpet. This happened two times yesterday. Anyway, be expecting to see me posting for help.

 

Sorry Buddy is still not feeling well and Red . Any chance they both eat the same food?

 

Red doesn't come out of my bedroom because she is blind, we feed her FF in my bedroom. We always put her food up when my bedroom door is open so Buddy won't go in and eat her food. Buddy eats Royal Canin and YA, Red is never around Buddy's food.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions on a dose for Buddy tonight, he is 211 @PMPS, @ AMPS he was @212 and I gave him 5.4U.

 

I'd say hold the 5.4U, he might give some blues tonight again

 

I hope so, he never got under 200 all day, he was higher earlier than the end of his cycle.

 

He's done that before though

 

He was kind of flat today, but that can happen. It could be for any reason too..hairball, stress, "Oh look at squirrel" syndrome. You said he wasn't feeling great, right? That may be why.

 

Buddy has not been feeling great for several days, but with the help of some appetite stimulant's I have kept him eating. He started out having loose stool and no appetite, his stools have firmed up, it might be about time to take away his appetite stimulant. The directions call for 1/2 pill every 12 hrs., but I gave him 1/4 a pill every 12hr.

He was very flat and that worried me, I was unsure because of being high during the day, but for some reason at AMPS or PMPS he comes down. Some things are hard to figure out.

 

Kinda does sound more like he's having a P-flare , poor baby, but you know how to handle it Teresa

 

But they are very painful.

 

Lots of times, but never that flat before.

 

This morning I gave Buddy some scrambled eggs, scrambled with olive oil spray in the skillet. I must admit I think I put a small amount of salt in the eggs, if the eggs had no salt, does anyone know if this would be alright for Buddy To eat.

 

I think cats can eat eggs as a treat or to entice them when they's not very hungry. Maybe no salt is better though. We always say whatever they'll eat when they're unwell. It's only for a short time.

 

Buddy is eating, I have been giving him 1/4 of an appetite stimulant for several days, tomorrow AMPS I will see if he will et on his own.

 

@Kris & Teasel , @Rachel , @Djamila , @Yong
If anyone gets a chance would they look at Buddy's SS. I am wondering if I made a mistake by raising his dose. Yesterday Buddy's dose @PMPS was 5.4u, today @AMPS was 5.5u. His numbers for yesterday look better than today's numbers. Any suggestions please let me know, do I need to back up to 5.2u.

 

I think he's just bouncing a little from the blues at night (but it's not a lot so you're probably in a good dose range! ) I'm going to suggest we wait to see your PMPS before making a dose suggestion but hoping we can hold it . PMPS time is about 3 1/2 hours away right?

 

I agree with what Yong has said, Teresa.

 

Ditto!