Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Goose, Sep 11, 2020.
Do Daa's PZ Dosing Thread7
Above link is to previous discussions.
Following along with Do Daa and Goose in their progress, so I'm commenting to put a "Watch" on the thread.
Yellows before the break .... ?
I sure hope so. That often holds true, and it's good that you recognize and remember that.
Lower yellows too. I would not be surprised to see some blues and greens this PM cycle, 9/18/20.
Maybe your saying this about the "yellows before the break" will help someone else to see that pattern on the SS of their cat when a bounce is clearing.
We figured it maybe a late night/early am with Daa with some blues and maybe greens. We started to mitigate the numbers with food @pmps as to try and even out and slow the drop. I hope others look at Daa's SS and hopefully can find some pattern there that might help them learn to spot these situations and adjust accordingly with their feline.
Edit: a 61 point increase from 2cc gravy, 10 purina dry food pieces and 4 temptation pieces. 30.5 pts per hour rise to help mitigate a later possible larger drop.
A larger "buffer number" for a +4 reading as the insulin for Da starts to ramp up.
(His @pmps was 203, and @+2 was 264)
Pinks all day. I think we'll up the dose back to 3u in the AM. We have 2-4 more days left on this bottle of insulin after almost 2 months of use.
It definitely gets harder to draw up the insulin into the syringe when the level of insulin in the vial drops really low.
Hard to keep the air bubbles out of the syringe.
We back the syringe out of the bottle depending upon the depth of the pool that's left, always keeping the tip within the middle of the pool of insulin and have rarely had bubbles in the syringe.
The last of the old insulin (bottle #7) has been given tonight. We'll start the fresh (bottle #8) in the am.
I'm sure you will watch Do Daa carefully, as he starts the fresh bottle.
Seems that 3u is doing a better job at the moment with the new bottle of Prozinc, at least there are some blues and a green.
He was Reduced to 2.75u because of the 65 on 9/27 @pmps +5. He is now on the new bottle (#8) of insulin as of 9/26.
You're doing great Goose.
Sometimes you have to come to terms with the fact that you have to follow the numbers no matter how early in the AM it gets if you want to catch the low's and reduce the insulin (if in your Reduction Zone) as soon as they appear. If you don't catch the lows you could very well get stuck in a loop that is entirely frustrating.
Yes, but you've learned how to do that Goose, and learned very well.
You've come to really know how Do Daa responds to not only the insulin, but the food and what you need to do to support him during the 12 hour cycles. As Jill used to say "Know Thy Cat" and you know Do Daa very well.
I know it's hard, since you have several other special needs cats if I'm remembering correctly. Plus your own human family and all the responsibilities of daily life we all need to contend with needs to fit in there somewhere. Some days, it's a real juggling act.
A lot of times, there is nothing that I can say, except a few words of encouragement. Keep up the good work and I'm hoping that Do Daa clears this latest bounce of his into the "red zone" and gets back in the blues and greens real soon. (Latest data on SS is from 9/28 PM cycle, so he may have done that already).
I will say that if it wasn't for this board full of great people with many, many more years dealing with feline diabetes than we have, Do Daa would likely not be in as good of health that he is currently. There are now 7 cats here as Do Daa's mom died a couple of months ago, it was very sad. One of Do Daa's brothers has bowel issues, the rest are ok.
Sometimes words of Encouragement are all that's needed as motivation with this issue can easily slip from time to time.
Looks like that bounce may be breaking, with those string of yellows (and a blue!) yesterday AM cycle.
Did Do Daa go low after that 267 at PMPS on 9/29/20?
He ended up @ 127 @ pmps +4. We've been trying different levels of food to try and mitigate the drop around/and past pmps +4 so we can catch some Zzzz's... a work in progress this is.
He was a touch higher at amps today (9/30) but he seems rather stuck in higher am and pm pre-shot numbers. However, he had a Green today followed by Lots of Blues, so I'm callin' that a good day for Daa.
I'd call that a good day too!
Had a 491 @ pmps, highest pmps in awhile. So that was either from the 218 to 77 drop from +2 to +4 or the overall drop to 70...
Other than that, some Greens today!
I'm still thinking you could drop the dose another quarter unit (0.25U). I say that because you were giving Do Daa a lot of temptations to keep his numbers as high as they were. So my feeling is that Do Daa is a bit overdosed at the moment.
Numbers might be higher until he settles into the new dose. But I think a reduction is worth a try.
Nice job of getting Do Daa to "surf" in those nice green numbers today.
How did he act when he was in those green range BG's?
Ok, we'll try the new dose of 2.5u in the AM.
He does get a little "loaded" up depending on the pmps# to affect the pmps+4 number (1am) so we get some Zzzzz's. Like tonight's number at pmps is 254, (we gave him 8 temps), so no room to drop safely from pmps to +4 without giving him his regular food plus the necessary treats to mitigate a sudden drop at pmps+4. We are looking for a safe drop not a sudden one.
He was in the blues all afternoon today. He is a rather sedate cat anyway, but he does become less active when his numbers are higher. So it's hard to tell if it's just the low numbers that make him feel better and more active, or if it's the Zobaline, or a combo of both.
Nice string of blues yesterday, 10/4/20.
Did Do Daa do ok on the first cycle of his dose reduction?
A mix of yellows and pinks, with a touch of red.
Steady as he goes. Do Daa seems to take a few cycles to react with better BG numbers to a reduced dose.
Will do, hopefully he likes it!
Just surfin' yellows today, maybe it will break into blues or greens tomorrow.
It doesn't seem that the Reduction to 2.5u worked. I think we'll bump it back up to 2.75u on Saturday am.
Increased the insulin back to 2.75u. I think the 564 Bounce # was from the huge drop @ last night's PMPS to +3, the 406 to 212.
Looking back at the SS, the 2.5U dose really wasn't working well for Do Daa.
You have to look back to around 10/4/20 to see a better trend in the BG levels.
Paws crossed that the increase back to 2.75U brings those good numbers back to Do Daa.
It was worth a shot. I also hope 2.75u brings back better numbers!
Some red amps #'s , but today a nice string of Blues. Hopefully he'll re-settle into 2.75u...
Go Do Daa! Go lower with the new dosecrease.
VERY nice string of blues. Very NICE!
If he could talk, I'm sure he'd take all the credit and adulation you could give him!
He can talk, but he speaks "cat" and I speak "human".
Yellows all afternoon.
Question: He's been having a lot of Red's @amps lately. Do the Yellows (more or less) indicate a break is more likely tomorrow into Greens, thus he's accepting the 2.75u level; or should he go up to 3u?
Steady yellows usually mean a bounce is clearing and he could drop lower, back into more normal numbers during the next cycle.
So you may want to hold the dose steady until the AM cycle.
Ok, that was my thinking but I wanted you opinion. I wasn't going to change the dose until Saturday am anyway. It just gets frustrating not seeing the numbers react (lower) fast enough! I know that sounded like a newb question above, but just wanted to re-affirm my thoughts. I won't up the dose yet.
Hey, we all like to double check our thoughts sometimes. No worries on asking as many times as you need to Goose.
Didn't see this as a newb question at all.
Yellows and Blues for Da.
He had some late blues this afternoon/evening and the bump from 146 @ amps +9, to the pmps @ 436 was partially from giving him too many treats, and he loved everyone of them! It's a matter of adjusting the treats at those moments per the lower reading, but not overdoing it, as I mentioned before, a work in progress. Having him @ 146 at +9 (6pm) is a little too low and too close to (9pm) pmps to not have to help the numbers up.
I'm sure he did!
Another big bounce from a green BG level.
No, I don't think the mayo on his paw caused the bounce up to the black BG ranges either.
p.s. Now I'm thinking about a chicken salad sandwich. Next time, no mayo on Do Daa's!
Too many black pmps #'s lately
I know this seems counter intuitive, but Do Daa seems to be bouncing up to the blacks more on the 2.75U dose than he was on the 2.5U dose.
He also gets more greens on the 2.75U dose, which is good.
What was different or what did you do different on 10/18/20? AM cycle. Any notes on what you did that day, but did not enter on the SS?
Usually, Do Daa bounces high when he hits BG's below 100. But he didn't for that days PMPS and he stayed in the pinks for PMPS that day.
Trying to find a pattern here. Maybe the pattern is that there isn't a pattern.
Usually when I don't write down anything in the remarks section, nothing of note happened. He was given 2 temps @pmps +9, that was it for the day for extras.. (added into SS.) Nothing special happened on 10/18/20 in the AM, just a normal day = wet food at amps, then wet food again at amps +1.5, test at +2, maybe a little dry at +3, test at +4 , then the afternoon tests. Various times throughout the day with Cleanprotein dry for in-between snacks. (maybe he cleared the bounce really quickly from the night before #'s?)
I'm not sure what's up with the blacks at pmps... I hope he gets out of this little rut.
Any ideas on maybe we should try a reduction to see if it will clear this black mess he's in?
I just don't know Goose. When you said that there really wasn't anything different about the AM cycle on 10/18/20, it left me stumped on how you should proceed.
I'm not always clear in my responses. After a long day outside, working in my gardens, my answers can be "clear as mud". Sorry about that. I thought that the 2.75U dose was a better dose for Do Daa than the 2.5U dose.
Do Daa has been at this 2.7U dose for quite some time. I'm thinking about a 1 time INCREASE in the dose, to see if that kicks his body into high gear. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. You'd have to closely monitor, and bring any low BG numbers up with food. One cycle only.
It's another idea for you to try. So you would give Do Daa a 3U dose one time only, and then drop back down to the 2.75U dose again.
Or you could try the dose DECREASE to 2.5U as you suggested and hold that for a few cycles to see how Do Daa does.
It's a tossup in my mind on how you want to proceed with the dose.
Sorry I'm not much help here.
I appreciate the fact that you take the time to help everyone here, including us. Since ECID, everyone's experiences with their cats are unique and your experiences with Feline Diabetes will likely be different in some way or another, than ours. I can't, and don't, expect a definitive answer to all the situations we encounter with Do Daa.
His PMPS was 296, so just barely yellow, but better than black. I'm going to wait one more day to see if the black PMPS's maybe clear. If not, we'll up the does to 3u am/pm for just Sunday to see if that can unblock this log jam.
He had a 569 @ amps after staying up pmps +6 (3am) with those blues.
We started 3u the amps and also at pmps. Thoughts? Maybe try 3u for a couple more days? .. or as we talked about, just one day at 3u and then back to 2.75?
Just the one cycle at the 3U dose was my suggestion. Then back to the 2.75U dose.
If that doesn't work, then try the increase back to the 3U dose for a couple more days.
It looked like he was budging out of those black BG numbers, but then Do Daa dropped into those low blue ranges again and bounced sky high for the next cycle.
I just have the feeling you are going to be see-sawing up and down on the dose for a bit longer.
The pre-shot tests do factor into the decision on what to do with the dose, but the nadir carries a bit more weight.
I think you made the right decision to increase the dose to the 3U for both AMPS and PMPS for today, 10/24/20, not just the 1 cycle I had suggested.
Now I hope that Do Daa stays out of those low blues for the rest of the evening, because his body still hasn't adjusted to those blues and he'll be sky high again at AMPS for tomorrow 10/25/20.
So it might not be a bad idea to keep him a little on the high side, say now through pmps +4 to keep him out of the low blues overnight and to help prevent a sky high AMPS in the am on 10/25/20?
Well pink am/pm pre-shots are better than black! He had 12 temptations over a 4 hour period, enough in his system to keep him @304 @pmps +4 and a amps of 329. While these are not great numbers, they are much better that black. Hopefully this little detour was enough to break the log jam...
Another black pmps. Should we consider upping to 3u for 3-7 days to try and get back to lower numbers?
I created a new thread, Do Daa's PZ Dosing Thread9.