High BG Advice

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CalicoEvie

CalicoEvie

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I had a glucose curve done for my cat Evie on Friday 1/24 and she was in the 300s. The vet told me she didn't want to increase her dose yet (one unit twice daily) because she wanted me to monitor this weekend on how she does with current dose. I was getting high readings with the Libre 2 monitor last night with Evie - the monitor just showed "HI" because it was over 400. She was 341 in the morning, but she didn't eat her food right away, so I gave her morning insulin a bit late. Since then, she's been hovering between 350 to HI. I'll be sending the charts over to the vet tomorrow morning, but should I be concerned in the meantime? She doesn't seem to have signs of DKA besides drinking a lot, but she's been doing that since she got diagnosed with diabetes.
 
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Evie is such a pretty girl! I'm sure some of the regulars will advise soon. Did she have DKA when diagnosed? Did the vet test for ketones? You'll want to work on setting up your spreadsheet and adding key info to your signature, it helps the experienced folks answer questions more efficiently. DKA is always a risk for diabetics but I was told it can take awhile to develop so do all the things to keep working to get those numbers down.

Petey rode the red and black numbers for while after he was first diagnosed and I was sooooo worried he would end up in the ER again if we didn't get them down quickly. But quick is not safe. You've come to the right place.:bighug:
 
Thanks! She is so pretty :)

No, she did not have DKA but ketones were too high for Senvelgo. There were no ketones in the urine on Friday when vet tested. Oh, I didn't know about the spreadsheet and signature. Thanks for the info! Petey is so cute I hope he is doing better now :)
 
@CalicoEvie
Here is the link on how to set up our spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

How to use the spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/

If you can't set it up yourself tag me and I'll tag a member to set it up for you

Please read all the yellow stickys here about Lantus especially the 2 dosing methods to choose from.
They will let you know when an increase or decrease is needed

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

Did you get the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings? On your previous post which I posted above we have you some places where to get them
 
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Given that you noted that Evie was showing some level of ketones, I'd suggest that you get Ketostix at any pharmacy and test your cat's urine for ketones. The risk for ketones developing increases with higher numbers. Also, what your feeding Evie is high in carbs. Are you able to feed her something other than the renal diet? Most of the canned Royal Canin renal foods are in the neighborhood of 20% carbs. We consider a low carb diet as under 10% and most caregivers feed their cat a food that's around 5% carb. The carbs in your cat's food are driving the numbers up.
 
CalicoEvie said:
I had a glucose curve done for my cat Evie on Friday 1/24 and she was in the 300s. The vet told me she didn't want to increase her dose yet (one unit twice daily) because she wanted me to monitor this weekend on how she does with current dose. I was getting high readings with the Libre 2 monitor last night with Evie - the monitor just showed "HI" because it was over 400. She was 341 in the morning, but she didn't eat her food right away, so I gave her morning insulin a bit late. Since then, she's been hovering between 350 to HI. I'll be sending the charts over to the vet tomorrow morning, but should I be concerned in the meantime? She doesn't seem to have signs of DKA besides drinking a lot, but she's been doing that since she got diagnosed with diabetes.
Click to expand...
@Wendy&Neko

@Bron and Sheba (GA)

I gave her the link so she can set up our spreadsheet and told her if she needed help with it to tag me and I would tag a member ,
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@CalicoEvie
Here is the link on how to set up our spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

How to use the spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/

If you can't set it up yourself tag me and I'll tag a member to set it up for you

Please read all the yellow stickys here about Lantus especially the 2 dosing methods to choose from.
They will let you know when an increase or decrease is needed

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

Did you get the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings? On your previous post which I posted above we have you some places where to get them
Click to expand...
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@CalicoEvie
Here is the link on how to set up our spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

How to use the spreadsheet
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/

If you can't set it up yourself tag me and I'll tag a member to set it up for you

Please read all the yellow stickys here about Lantus especially the 2 dosing methods to choose from.
They will let you know when an increase or decrease is needed

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/

Did you get the U-100 syringes with the half unit markings? On your previous post which I posted above we have you some places where to get them
Click to expand...

Thanks! Yes, I got the Relion syringes with half unit markings.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Given that you noted that Evie was showing some level of ketones, I'd suggest that you get Ketostix at any pharmacy and test your cat's urine for ketones. The risk for ketones developing increases with higher numbers. Also, what your feeding Evie is high in carbs. Are you able to feed her something other than the renal diet? Most of the canned Royal Canin renal foods are in the neighborhood of 20% carbs. We consider a low carb diet as under 10% and most caregivers feed their cat a food that's around 5% carb. The carbs in your cat's food are driving the numbers up.
Click to expand...

Oh okay. Unfortunately, the vet internist I was referred to (considering that she has kidney disease and IBD) thinks she needs to stay on this diet.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said: ↑
Given that you noted that Evie was showing some level of ketones, I'd suggest that you get Ketostix at any pharmacy and test your cat's urine for ketones. The risk for ketones developing increases with higher numbers. Also, what your feeding Evie is high in carbs. Are you able to feed her something other than the renal diet? Most of the canned Royal Canin renal foods are in the neighborhood of 20% carbs. We consider a low carb diet as under 10% and most caregivers feed their cat a food that's around 5% carb. The carbs in your cat's food are driving the numbers up.



CalicoEvie said
Oh okay. Unfortunately, the vet internist I was referred to (considering that she has kidney disease and IBD) thinks she needs to stay on this diet.

@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

Hi Sienne , Wendy and Bron I don't know if Weruva Pates are ok to feed for cats with IBD because I know nothing about it but I did give Evie's mom a list of the Weruva Pates for kitties with kidney disease below

Update the food she is feeding is dry food
She just created a spreadsheet right now can you please take a look at it ,since the BG's are so high do you think she should increase and not wait 7 days

Rachel said
I'll have to look into the food alternatives.
I gave her the Weruva Pates but her cat won't eat wet, gave her the Dr Elsey's which is low carb and low phosphorus but she said the protein is too high , hard on the kidneys. Any thing else you can suggest .
I feel bad for her Evie
Here is the chart from Dr Elsey's that lists all the values

Click on this
https://www.drelseys.com/faqs/what-is-the-phosphorous-level-in-a-dry-matter/

Then click on where it says
Kibble Values Chart


@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Wendy&Neko
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
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@CalicoEvie
I assume the food you are feeding is dry food?, I googled it and I don't see that it comes in wet food ?
If so
From the Chewy site
What % are the carbohydrates ?
Answer by • May 27, 2021
This recipe contains approximately 36.28% Carbohydrates on an As-Fed basis (approximately 41.99% Carbohydrates on a Dry Matter basis).


I don't know anything about IBD if you can feed Evie this ,but for kidney disease

Low carb and low phosphorus for kidney disease

if you tap on this link and look at post #32 I listed some Weruva pates for another member that's low carb/ low phosphorus with kitties with CKD
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-11-8-and-i-am-tired.283363/#post-3124085

You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts. This is where I was told where to look by a member


You can even check out the soulistic pates
https://www.soulisticpet.com/pate
When you click in one of the flavors then click on
COMPLETE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION (link to page)
and look at the same two places like on the weruva
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@CalicoEvie
I assume the food you are feeding is dry food?, I googled it and I don't see that it comes in wet food ?
If so
From the Chewy site
What % are the carbohydrates ?
Answer by • May 27, 2021
This recipe contains approximately 36.28% Carbohydrates on an As-Fed basis (approximately 41.99% Carbohydrates on a Dry Matter basis).


I don't know anything about IBD if you can feed Evie this ,but for kidney disease

Low carb and low phosphorus for kidney disease

if you tap on this link and look at post #32 I listed some Weruva pates for another member that's low carb/ low phosphorus with kitties with CKD
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-member-11-8-and-i-am-tired.283363/#post-3124085

You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts. This is where I was told where to look by a member


You can even check out the soulistic pates
https://www.soulisticpet.com/pate
When you click in one of the flavors then click on
COMPLETE NUTRITIONAL INFORMATION (link to page)
and look at the same two places like on the weruva
Click to expand...

Yes, it's dry food unfortunately. I made a spreadsheet! I'll have to look into the food alternatives. Thanks!
 
CalicoEvie said:
Also... back when I was on the Hill's Prescription CKD food, I tried the wet food options and Evie just did not like them :( she likes crunchy food
Click to expand...
That stinks :(

Rachel Click on this
https://www.drelseys.com/faqs/what-is-the-phosphorous-level-in-a-dry-matter/

Then click on where it says
Kibble Values Chart

These are low carb dry food and the phosphorus levels are low for kidney disease. Ask your vet about this and show him the chart

These are about 5 or 6% carbs

If you do try these you will have to do the switch slowly and really monitor her good . Going from a high carb food to a low carb food can drop the numbers by 100
@CalicoEvie


They are not cheap
You need to order them online they are not cheap
Dr Elseys you can buy on chewey site
https://www.chewy.com/dr-elseys-cleanprotein-chicken/dp/146269?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12791446238&utm_content=Dr. Elsey's&utm_term=&show-search=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0PvU2Zj79wIVRIdbCh3JawEkEAQYASABEgIInfD_BwE





Dr Elsey's also at Walmart
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dr-Elsey...ViI3ICh0suwO_EAQYAiABEgJrOPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Dr Elsey's Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FCJHDPR/ref=twister_B09GHFJY65?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

the Dr Elsey's comes in different size bags
None of these can be bought in stores
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
That stinks :(

Rachel Click on this
https://www.drelseys.com/faqs/what-is-the-phosphorous-level-in-a-dry-matter/

Then click on where it says
Kibble Values Chart

These are low carb dry food and the phosphorus levels are low for kidney disease. Ask your vet about this and show him the chart

These are about 5 or 6% carbs

If you do try these you will have to do the switch slowly and really monitor her good . Going from a high carb food to a low carb food can drop the numbers by 100
@CalicoEvie
Click to expand...
Oh, the other concern with CKD is that high protein is hard for the kidneys :(. I appreciate you finding these but I don't think they're an option.
 
CalicoEvie said:
Oh, the other concern with CKD is that high protein is hard for the kidneys
Click to expand...

That is "old school" thinking. A low protein diet just leads to muscle wasting and it's hard enough to keep weight on a CKD cat without losing muscle too. What's more important is that they eat a high quality protein.

Do you know what stage of CKD she's in?

What's more important for CKD is to feed a low phosphorus food, and with the diabetes, you really need to keep working on getting her onto a low carb canned or raw food. Kibble is dehydrating, very hard on the kidneys and the most important thing to keep kidneys healthy is water!

The perfect food for a cat is a mouse which is about 80% water....just like canned food! Most of us even add extra water to the canned food to make our own "gravy" (which a lot of cats like).

If she's in late stage 2 or higher, you may need to add a phosphorus binder which keeps the phosphorus from breaking down into the bloodstream. It must be added to every meal, which again, is much easier with canned food.

Here's some Tips on transitioning the hard core kibble addict .

Another thing that has been helpful is 1. to feed only on a schedule. Do not leave a bowl of kibble out all day. 2. at each feeding, put a teaspoon of wet food on a plate next to the kibble. Eventually, curiosity gets the best of most cats and they give it a try. It can take weeks (or months), but your cat will be healthier eating canned food, as nature intended. Whoever developed kibble in the first place didn't do our cats health any favors!

TANYA'S COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO FELINE CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE is the "Bible" for treating CKD but there is a LOT of information included. Don't let it overwhelm you and keep asking questions!
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
That is "old school" thinking. A low protein diet just leads to muscle wasting and it's hard enough to keep weight on a CKD cat without losing muscle too. What's more important is that they eat a high quality protein.

Do you know what stage of CKD she's in?

What's more important for CKD is to feed a low phosphorus food, and with the diabetes, you really need to keep working on getting her onto a low carb canned or raw food. Kibble is dehydrating, very hard on the kidneys and the most important thing to keep kidneys healthy is water!

The perfect food for a cat is a mouse which is about 80% water....just like canned food! Most of us even add extra water to the canned food to make our own "gravy" (which a lot of cats like).

If she's in late stage 2 or higher, you may need to add a phosphorus binder which keeps the phosphorus from breaking down into the bloodstream. It must be added to every meal, which again, is much easier with canned food.

Here's some Tips on transitioning the hard core kibble addict .

Another thing that has been helpful is 1. to feed only on a schedule. Do not leave a bowl of kibble out all day. 2. at each feeding, put a teaspoon of wet food on a plate next to the kibble. Eventually, curiosity gets the best of most cats and they give it a try. It can take weeks (or months), but your cat will be healthier eating canned food, as nature intended. Whoever developed kibble in the first place didn't do our cats health any favors!

TANYA'S COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE TO FELINE CHRONIC KIDNEY DISEASE is the "Bible" for treating CKD but there is a LOT of information included. Don't let it overwhelm you and keep asking questions!
Click to expand...
Oh I had no idea. She's in stage 2. I've been feeding her on a schedule. I'll have to read more about CKD it seems. Thanks for the tips!
 
CalicoEvie said:
Oh I had no idea. She's in stage 2. I've been feeding her on a schedule. I'll have to read more about CKD it seems. Thanks for the tips
Click to expand...
@CalicoEvie
Hi Rachel , now that Chris explained about the protein hopefully you can feed the Weruva Pates , the link I gave you above or the Dr Elsey's dry chicken since Chris said low protein leads to muscle wasting
 
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Ya'll I didn't even think about that Evie takes Purina Calming Care and that has maltodextrin... I think on 1/25 I didn't give it because she wasn't eating well and I was just trying to get her to eat. And her levels were better that day. Does anyone have good options for probiotics? I tried Entero Tru Benefits and Visbiome when she was first diagnosed with IBD two years ago, but those didn't seem to help her - she continued having soft stools and throwing up. Calming Care is the only one I've tried that actually seems to help :(
 
Hi Laurie! She's doing a little better, I think. She's actually playing a bit! The 157 reading when I woke up yesterday freaked me out a bit (I know it's a good number, but it just seemed sudden because she's been high for so long) but talked to the vet and all is well :)
 
CalicoEvie said:
Hi Laurie! She's doing a little better, I think. She's actually playing a bit! The 157 reading when I woke up yesterday freaked me out a bit (I know it's a good number, but it just seemed sudden because she's been high for so long) but talked to the vet and all is well :)
Click to expand...

Totally know the feeling! I panicked Petey's first few low preshot tests and had to ask the group for help. Glad to hear she's feeling a little more herself. Hope you are doing a little better too :)
 
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