I massively overdosed my cat, she's in the hospital

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Hi Melinda...I am very new to a diabetic cat situation also. I am learning as I go along. Please remember that what they say is true..."hindsite is 20-20" and what seems so obvious to you now was unknown before. We learn by our mistakes. I carry mistakes I made too and sometimes the guilt is overwhelming but if we learn and carry that knowledge with it, we benefit. Best wishes to you and your lovely cat....Carol
 
Hi Ms Melinda and Sweet Sasha,

I have 3 girls and all have their issues...... Slappy will not (as of now) touch any wet food either.....we watch her while she eats so my Sugar Bean does not sneek into her food (which she does every once in while :cry: ).

Sugar Bean is in REMISSION!!!

And Gumpy is the worst off.... She is CRF and very high blood pressure.... I have found that she will eat friskies special diet - good for her and Sugar Bean as she may sneek into it and she will be fine.
I also take the Friskies Classic and mix it with their food, that way Gumpy gets what is good for her and so does Bean. I know it would be best if Gumpy just at the special diet, but she likes it and will eat that better mixed. We also do the fancy feast mixed in as well.

Sure wish Sasha would give in to wet as I do with Slappy, but omg! we are goin on 3 months and I think she would starve if she did not eat the dry......I will try sticking some in her mouth tho.... who knows, she will either hate me for the day, or it might work! :-D

I am SOOOOO glad your baby girl is doing better! I was helped by many during our first couple of weeks here, as I was not home testing yet, shooting Bean blindly. Then finaly, I "got my big girl panites on" and tested, got the testing to actually work (as I had tried 2-3 times before, and could not get the process down). We were +2 hours after shooting and my beautiful Bean girl was only 26! LORI LORI LORI stayed on the phone w/ me for 4 hours, folks here posting, etc...... WE MADE IT!!! And I promised my girl I would NEVER shoot before testing again!
And..........by testing, and adjusting her diet, MY BEAN IS IN REMISSION!!!!!! YEA BEAN... Just wanted to share my testing story and how important it is to me to test before I did any shooting.....
Now we only test 1 a week. She is wonderful! Playing again, eating good, doing her 10 min outside time. She really seems back to normal!

I wish you all the luck with the testing... as many have said here...it really is easy. Bean and I have a special chair, special loving, and special treats that we go to ONLY for pokey poke time. She knows when I get my little basket of goodies out, it is going to be just her time for at least 5 min. or when she decides to be done with after-love.

Welcome and sorry this is soo long...have a great bond day w/ Sasha - btw...she is gorgous!
 
Lisa dvm - I've been reading all the great info you have on your site. I'm pleased to say that I have been following literally every litterbox guideline you listed since day 1 with Sasha! (finally, I did something right :) The transitioning to wet food page was very interesting with some really good tips, and I'm going to go for it. I've known for years that wet food is better than the dry, and that's the one thing I got universal vet consensus on, but I just didn't think there was any way I could convince Sasha of the same. Once she's back to normal and fully relaxed after her terrible stay at the hospital I'm going to slooooowly start the transition. I know it doesn't have to happen overnight, thank goodness... and I still need to figure out exactly what I'm going to feed her once I've weaned her off the dry kibble. I've been reading these forums like crazy, there is a LOT of information here and it's a bit much to take in all at once. I am willing to try the higher protein diet, especially since she has been expressing her disgust with the k/d, but would like to find out what the ideal protein (easy to digest for the kidneys) might be. And please don't say mouse -- I might live in NYC and all, but I am not going to go hunting for my cat's dinner in the subways!

Deb415andNikki - I'm not extremely familiar with the geography out here, I moved to Brooklyn about 5 years ago and only take mass transit when I'm not on my bike, which makes learning about where I'm going a bit difficult for me (I always learned by driving myself and consulting maps along the way). I don't go to Jersey very often, but I do visit Jersey City on a semi-regular basis. Are you anywhere near that area?
 
Melinda, I've heard you can buy these things called "pinkies' which are frozen, skinned, mice.
Gross, perhaps. Ideal food, Yes!
 
lori and tom said:
Melinda, I've heard you can buy these things called "pinkies' which are frozen, skinned, mice.
Gross, perhaps. Ideal food, Yes!
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Yeeergsh... I've seen frozen rats (skin, heads, tail, etc. all still attached) at my Petco. If we eventually start going in that direction I could do it. And if I'd need to cook them first Sasha is getting her OWN frying pan!
 
I promise to make this a quick one for once :) I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that has posted on this thread, this time specifically to the folks that I haven't responded individually to. There's such an overwhelming response of support and advice that I want to thank all of you. Everything has been read and appreciated and every single post has helped! Thank you all so very very much!

Sasha is resting now -- not the 'scary' resting where I check on her every minute to make sure she's still breathing, but a nice peaceful resting. The twitches are completely gone. And anytime I come into the room she perks up and seems quite alert and well. I've attached a photo I took of her just a few moments ago, we all love sharing photos of our kids :)
 

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Melinda and Sasha said:
Let me add here that for Sasha's entire life she has refused any kind of soft cat food, or even people food. She turns her nose up at tuna, chicken, beef, anything I have offered her. She only wants dry kibble, and it's impossible to get her to eat anything else. Of course I am willing to keep trying, and I'm also willing to try cooking for her, but my hopes are very low that she'll actually eat it.
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I fully understand this, Melinda. My Maggie was the same. She turned her pretty nose up at any wet food. She wouldn't eat any people food. In fact she and her brother would actually leave the room when we ate - I think the smell of people food bothered them. I know dry isn't good for cats, but Maggie was fed dry and honeymooned twice on it.

So get Sasha to eat. You can see if she will adapt to wet food after she gets better.

PS: I love Johnny Depp, too, but how did he come up in this thread? I'm dying to know!

PSS: Sasha is so cute in that picture!
 
She's not so bad that she'll leave the room -- she will happily put her nose on whatever it is I'm eating (I'm forever pulling her nose out of omelettes), and will occasionally lick the food (like water off blueberries). But when it comes to actually putting the food in her mouth and eating it I can't get her to do it. If I get her those cans with the shredded meat in them, she'll lick all the gravy off but leave the solid stuff behind. Maybe it won't be such a long process to wean her after all... once she's better I'm going to start the process. This should be fun :)

Johnny Depp was the subject of our movie night last night! I've got 2 of his films via Netflix sitting here, once I got her home from the hospital we had a lovely night in.
 
Here is the crf link that floats around here sometimes:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=46673

It has links to food charts ordered by phosphorus content (which is hard for taxed kidneys to flush out). High meat content is usually linked to a high phosphorus content, which is also where the low protein diet comes in too. You can cross reference flavors from that chart with Janet and Binky's food charts to see which ones are lowest in carb content and within your budget.
 
Oh Melinda - so good to hear things are looking up for Sasha. Glad she is home, and the twitching has stopped and you are seeing improvement.

I read all the posts on this thread with great interest, especially Dr. Lisa's. (Thank you Dr. Lisa!!!)

Crash has been off Lantus for over two years, and has early kidney disease. Vet wanted him on KD, but I knew that was wrong for sugar cats. The search was on. I found that phos was the problem, so researched all the FF and Wellness and Proplan he was eating - all was over 200 phos. The Wellness Turkey and Wellness Chicken along with Royal Canin LP Modified is what we settled on. He needs the protein, but lower phos.

He has not lost weight, but his BG numbers have gone from 60's to 90's, but still in range, but higher than I want. He is still drinking ~8oz of water per day, and pees alot, but is still a happy cat. After reading Dr. Lisa's post, I think I will keep some of the 250's FF just in case a flavor module needs to be added to the meals. Royal Canin smells good, but not as palatable as he likes. And he now gets raw and cooked chicken and occasional eggs. Maybe you can get Sasha to enjoy some of these foods after she is convinced they taste way better than the dry food.

Give your precious girl a scritch from us, and so glad things have turned the corner for you both. Don't forget to eat some chocolate as you study! :)
 
Dearest Dr. Lisa,

Lisa dvm said:
Ah...but Giz...and Clara...were never in my personal clutches. :-D
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That's because Chet and I were saving you from two black cats with extraordinary palettes...

Lisa dvm said:
I truly believe that it is 100%.
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It is 100% in my book. I lived with and loved Giz... Chet lived with and loved ClaraKitty... They were both beyond extra-sweet cats. They were both extra special -- particularly when it came to food!

Lisa dvm said:
ducking for cover now
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You never have to duck for cover from me, dearest Lisa. I'm a pacifist. And, I'm eternally grateful that Giz, in her infinite feline wisdom, sent me Nikki who actually eats canned cat food!

Much love and countless grateful hugs for every single thing you teach us every single time you post,
Deb and Nikki -- and, Giz, no doubt sharing catnip tea with Clara whilst discussing Ralph Lauren and Calvin Klein at The Bridge... Okay, Vera Wang too...
 
On another note, let's not just focus on carbs. As I have typed many times on this board, it is *not* just about carbs.

It is also about *water*.

Feeding a water-depelted diet of dry food is very hard on the urinary tract system - including the kidneys - the most important organ when it comes to water balance and keeping us hydrated.

Cats with kidney insufficiency are better served with a diet of 78% water - not one that is only 8-10% water.

Melinda, can you get Sasha to read this? :-D
 
Melinda and Sasha said:
Lisa, thank you so much for your lengthy and informed reply. There is a lot of confusing and conflicting information out there as to what to feed a cat depending on what their issues are, and the trouble I'm now running into is the two issues requiring two completely different diets -- the diabetic diet should be high protein, while the kidney diet should be low protein. It's impossible to do both, so the question then is which is the more pressing concern?

Let me add here that for Sasha's entire life she has refused any kind of soft cat food, or even people food. She turns her nose up at tuna, chicken, beef, anything I have offered her. She only wants dry kibble, and it's impossible to get her to eat anything else. Of course I am willing to keep trying, and I'm also willing to try cooking for her, but my hopes are very low that she'll actually eat it.
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Unfortunately I can't give you any advice on dry diets for cats with kidney disease, but I can give some good canned food recommendations that I used with my Gabby, who was diagnosed with renal insufficiency a few years ago. Because my other cat was diabetic, I hunted for foods that they could both eat, which meant good for Gabby's kidneys and low carb for Bandit. My vet also put Gabby on Purina NF canned food. Gabby hated it and barely ate it, even though she always loved canned food.

After some research, I discovered that there's a lot of controversy in the veterinary community over this issue. Check out the articles in the middle of this page: http://www.felinecrf.com/managd.htm. Low protein diets are successful in some cats, but diets low in protein are also low in phosphorus because of their low protein content, and it's debatable whether what's really helping cats on the low protein diets is the low phosphorus content. Some experts believe that a high quality protein/low phosphorus diet is better in treating a CRI cat. After reading about the incidents of muscle wasting that Dr. Pierson referred to in her post, I decided to go with a high protein, low phosphorus, low carb diet for Gabby. I bought her premium foods with no byproducts and low phosphorus. These were PetSmart Chicken & Beef, EVO 95% Venison and Beef flavors, Wellness Turkey, and Merrick Cowboy Cookout. The diet change pretty much stalled her kidney disease in it's tracks. She had her kidney values tested right before she passed away earlier this year (she was diagnosed with stomach cancer in July 2010), and they showed no signs of any progression of the CRI.

Of course, every cat is different, but I wanted to share my experience. I also took Gabby's quality of life into account when making my decision. She was 14 years old when she was diagnosed, and I just didn't think her body would stand up to a low protein diet. I thought that even if I was wrong on which diet was better, I'd rather have her strong and healthy for a shorter period of time than wasting away for longer. As it turned out, I 100% think I made the correct decision because the low phosphorus diet did work for her.

Of course, you also have the problem of transitioning Sasha to a canned diet, and I know how tricky that can be. My best friend's cat Calvin, has kidney disease that had progressed much further than Gabby's had, and he just refused to eat canned food. She went out and bought him EVERY canned food low in phosphorus she could find, and for months he would touch anything. Finally, she found one food he would eat (Friskies Special Diet Chicken in Gravy), and slowly got him mostly eating that food. Once the dry food finally was out, she mixed the chicken & gravy with other lower carb/low phosphorus pates that she had tried with him before and he refused. He eats the mix, but still won't eat the pates on their own. My friend is ok with that, and Calvin is doing well.

*edit--Gabby was on canned Purina NF, not Hills k/d. I got a little mixed up.
 
Sasha's never been much of a reader, she only flips through the tabloids in line at the supermarket. Her reading is much like her food - all junk.

One thing that is probably good is she has always been a very heavy water drinker. She drinks water like it's made of candy, which is also why I've stayed on top of her litterbox duties and kept it very very clean. Even catsitters have remarked on the amount of water she consumes, it's probably 2-3 times what most cats drink. As a result, for her whole life vets have made the assumption she must be diabetic and have tested her on a pretty regular basis, and they were always surprised when the tests came back negative. Well, up until a week ago, that is...

Another bit of history about Sasha - she was morbidly obese when I adopted her. A whopping 26 pounds, but through careful dieting and an iron will I slowly got her down to her current weight, 14 lbs. And if I can get a fat cat like that down to a reasonably healthy weight, I think I can eventually get her switched over to a healthier food. I'm not going to start right away, she's still got a few more scary vet visits coming up (as well as being boarded at the vet when I go on vacation later this month), and I want those to be over and done with before we start the food transition so that she only has positive associations with the food - another great tip from your article, Lisa DVM!

Julia & Bandit - thank you very much for the recommendation! Sasha is also 14 years old, and is a little wobbly to be honest. She's never been an energetic cat, even when I first got her at 4 years old, but she's definitely showing her age a lot more these past few years and I want to keep her in top shape. If I can get her feeling great at a reduced life span, I think that is way better for us both than having her stick around forever while feeling like crap the whole time :(

And brand names are really helpful, thank you for mentioning those - of course I will eventually do my own research, but right now I've got so much to learn just on the diabetes front that having someone say "This stuff is good!" is a big relief.
Have I mentioned how awesome all of you are? Because you are :) And being able to talk out these issues with everyone has given me so much hope and a much more positive outlook on the whole situation. I didn't know how I was going to deal with this before, but now I kinda feel like if I stay patient I can provide her with really good care.
 
Melinda and Sasha said:
S If I can get her feeling great at a reduced life span, I think that is way better for us both than having her stick around forever while feeling like crap the whole time :(
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I always leaned towards that mindset with Gabby every step of the way. While the diet change did end up working in regards to her kidneys so we were in a win/win situation with the choice I made in food, I did end up having to make that choice again. When she was diagnosed with cancer, it was a very, very difficult decision on whether or not to pursue treatment. I ended up not pursuing treatment with her, because the odds were against it getting rid of the cancer, there was a good chance of her not surviving it, and if it didn't help I didn't want her to spend months recovering from surgery when she only had months left. I wanted her happy and comfortable as long as possible. I also tried to look at it from her point of view, on what she would want if she could tell me. I know she would have wanted to live out the time she had left as comfortably as possible. Even if the surgery had given me a few more months with her, I would give up those months in a heartbeat if it meant she was unhappy the whole time. As it was, she lasted 8 months without treatment when all the vets originally thought she had no more than 3 months, so something can be said about keeping your cat as happy and comfortable as possible throughout the course of the disease.

And of course, you never know. A high protein/low phos/low carb diet could be the thing that both makes her both feel great and extends her life. That's how it would have been with Gabby the cancer not shown up.
 
If I can get her feeling great at a reduced life span, I think that is way better for us both than having her stick around forever while feeling like crap the whole time :(
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Absolutely.

Quality of life always trumps quantity of years lived.
 
another inexpensive canned food option is:

friskies special diet - pates, don't get the gravy ones as those are higher in carbs.

my girls like turkey & giblets, beef & liver - these are lower in phosphorus, while still being low carb and relatively decent canned food.
 
Hillary & Maui said:
friskies special diet - pates, don't get the gravy ones as those are higher in carbs.
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The special diet chicken & gravy is 14% carbs, but I would say if she's being stubborn transitioning to the pates and will only eat gravy foods (as was in the case with Calvin), you can try mixing it with lower carb foods to help transition, and then gradually removing it if you can. I only mention this because you said she won't eat any people food like tuna, chicken, or beef, which makes me think you may need a gravy food to help her transition if she doesn't take to the different pates right away (all the foods I listed in my previous post were pates as well). Fortiflora is another option to help try and get her to eat the pates, and that won't mess with the carb content.

Gabby also ate the Friskies special diet Turkey & Giblets and Salmon when I went through some financial trouble and couldn't afford the premium foods for about a 4 month period. Keep in mind that Friskies does contain byproducts, so the protein quality is going to better in the premium foods. But what it comes down to is feeding the best thing that she'll eat and you can afford, so the Friskies special diet foods aren't a bad choice if that's what she wants. My friend went through about 8 different kinds of premium foods with Calvin, he will only eat the Friskies.
 
Looks like I've got a larger pool of choices than I thought I would, that's great news! Getting her switched over will be tricky for sure, but I can be sneakier than she can be and I'll figure out a way :)

I have yet another unrelated question for everyone here -- I tried searching on the forum for an explanation, but every search term came up with 'too many results to display'. I also tried the glossary, and no dice.

I've been looking at the spreadsheets everyone keeps, and there's a couple of things I don't understand...

1. What are AMPS and PMPS?
2. I understand the BG numbers at the top of the spreadsheet and figured out they're a color coding/legend for the BG numbers, but I'm confused by the +1 +2, etc., and why those numbers would reset themselves.
3. Does u = units? Ex: 1u = one unit of insulin, .75, etc?
4. What is a fur shot?
5. How did you figure out how to adjust your cat's dose of insulin based on these numbers? Is this something your vet told you how to do?
 
1. What are AMPS and PMPS?

AM (morning) preshot test and PM (evening) preshot test

2. I understand the BG numbers at the top of the spreadsheet and figured out they're a color coding/legend for the BG numbers, but I'm confused by the +1 +2, etc., and why those numbers would reset themselves.

+1, +2, etc., are the number of hours after the shot (+1 is one hour after the shot, +2 is 2 hours after the shot, and so forth). I'm not sure what you mean about the number resetting themselves. They restart after each shot; is that what you mean?

3. Does u = units? Ex: 1u = one unit of insulin, .75, etc?

Yes, u = units.

4. What is a fur shot?

A fur shot is when the insulin goes into the fur instead of into the cat. But you never assume that *no* insulin got into the cat, and so you don't give another shot. Wait until the next shot time.

5. How did you figure out how to adjust your cat's dose of insulin based on these numbers? Is this something your vet told you how to do?

Experience, advice from the vet, advice from people on this board; protocols for the particular insulin you are using may give some help (such protocols are usually findable in the stickies at the top of the section of the board for that particular insulin - different insulins can have very different protocols). Different people learn this from different sources.
 
1. What are AMPS and PMPS?

AM = morning
PS = preshot
PM = evening

So what this means is the morning or evening BG number prior to shot time


2. I understand the BG numbers at the top of the spreadsheet and figured out they're a color coding/legend for the BG numbers, but I'm confused by the +1 +2, etc., and why those numbers would reset themselves.

It's a clock with 12 hours - the 1 point is the AMPS and clock going 1 hour after shot, 2 hours after shot, up to 11 hours after shot, then you're at 12 o clock again and pm time.

We talk about it this and color code because people are in different time zones and this makes it easier for everyone to understand what's going on.

If I said well at 8 pm I did this and then at 10 am I did that, nobody would understand what I meant and whether those are vital times. But if I say 2 hours after getting shot, this happened, then people know what it means and how crucial it may be.

3. Does u = units? Ex: 1u = one unit of insulin, .75, etc?

yes u = unit

.75 = 3/4 unit of insulin

this is why getting syringes with 1/2 unit markings helps.

and honestly, it's a bit of a guessing game, cause my .75 may not look exactly like your .75 and yet we will call it that - the importance here - is to be consistent on your syringes with each one.

4. What is a fur shot?

anytime you screw up and don't get the insulin all the way in, some of it ends up on fur - or somehow something went wrong -it's called a fur shot - you can sometimes feel wet in the area or even smell the insulin on the fur.

5. How did you figure out how to adjust your cat's dose of insulin based on these numbers?

this is where the lantus board will come in handy, by tracking the BG's on the spreadsheet, you can start to see patterns and movement, and know what is going on and when you need to adjust dose - with guidance from the lantus board peeps!

Is this something your vet told you how to do?

nope - my vet didn't teach me any of this, all I learned I learned here.
 
Melinda and Sasha said:
5. How did you figure out how to adjust your cat's dose of insulin based on these numbers? Is this something your vet told you how to do?
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Sasha is still on Lantus, right? Here is a link to the Lantus protocol: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581. You can print this out to give to your vet to help advise you with dosing, if it's not the protocol they are already using: http://felinediabetes.com/Roomp_Rand_2008 dosing_testing protocol.pdf. This protocol has been proven to be incredibly safe and effective. The big advantage with it is that the dose is raised in quarter and half unit increments instead of whole units, so you don't miss your cats ideal dose. If you skip over the right dose for the cat to a dose that is too high, it can cause all sorts of problems. The protocol allows you to determine the best dose from the beginning.

Here's a post describing how to set up a spreadsheet and post it in your profile:http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207&start=0

If for some reason that does not work, follow the instructions in this post: http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=46476

I'm sorry it's a little confusing to have two sets of instructions, but a lot of people were having trouble accessing the template in the first post and I want to make sure you can get started.
 
I brought her in yesterday for a follow up, she's anemic which is a brand new diagnosis.... need to keep an eye on that for the next week or so and update my vet if she doesn't start showing a little more pep.

Her BG was somewhere in the 360s (sorry, I have it written down at home, haven't started my spreadsheet yet) yesterday at the vet's office, and she received her first shot of insulin this morning since being hospitalized. We put her on 1.5u to start off with.

I have to have a BG for my vet by Friday, either by providing it myself or by bringing her back into the office. I haven't done this before so I'm a little nervous, and I really don't want to bring her back in if I can avoid it!
 
Dearest Melinda
1.5u! I am sooooo not liking that dose. Please test thru out the day. be high carb ready...not just karo or honey, but high carb food.
This is just not right...the highest should have been 1u, but even a fraction of that would have suited me.
Get that high carb food ready ok?
Call me if you need high carb choices;;;;;or quick help, altho i'll be at work most of the day.
Lori
and tomtom
 
Just realized you likely do not have your kit yet .... hopefully this afternoon or tomorow.
I have to tell you... I am a little worried.
Keep a very close eye on Sasha.
That hospital number you got yesterday could be 100 or more points higher than her non stress # at home.
And the insulin sensitivity after the overdose....
 
Oh Jeez... I really wish I knew what I were doing here. 1.5 is the number my vet told me, and she is aware of the insulin sensitivity. Can I trust her opinion anymore?

I will go home at lunch and check on her. What are some good high carb choices I can bring home? I don't have a meter yet, I'll get one at lunch as well.
 
Melinda, do you still have my number? i can pm you. i'll look on my list and name them for you if you are going shopping.
sorry to alarm you...just that vets are famous for prescribing too much insulin
 
Anything in gravy is a great HC food for a kitty, alot of the time you can just give them the gravy off it because that is where the carbs are, and it won't fill them up if you need to keep them eating.

Just remember to breathe it will all come together, baby steps for now.

Try not to be too hard on your vet, they have to know a lot about a lot of different species and all the things that can go wrong with all of them. It just isn't humanly possible to stay up to date on everything and diabetes is one of those things they probably don't see a lot of, so it may not get the same updating of information that other things that they see on a more regular basis.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Melinda and Sasha said:
Oh Jeez... I really wish I knew what I were doing here. 1.5 is the number my vet told me, and she is aware of the insulin sensitivity. Can I trust her opinion anymore?

I will go home at lunch and check on her. What are some good high carb choices I can bring home? I don't have a meter yet, I'll get one at lunch as well.
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I agree that 1.5 is too high after what Sasha was through. I would drop the dose down to 1u tonight. Your vet seems to be dosing too high--she started Sasha out on 2.5u when 1u is the recommended starting dose. That doesn't mean she's a bad vet, but it does mean she's not following the Lantus dosing protocol. It's possible she doesn't know the protocol, because many vets don't. I had to print it out and give it to my vet, and say, "This is what we're following for dose adjustments." Vets have to have a general knowledge base for different animals, so it can be difficult for them to know the specifics for one disease.

For high carb, grab anything with gravy. I keep Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers food on hand for high carb.
 
Melinda and Sasha said:
... I really wish I knew what I were doing here. 1.5 is the number my vet told me, and she is aware of the insulin sensitivity. Can I trust her opinion anymore?...
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She may not have had the experience of actually living with a diabetic cat, monitoring it, and seeing the consequences from dosing errors. Without seeing good data, it may be difficult for a vet to understand what that is like, especially the absolute terror of seeing your cat in convulsions.

You are allowed to be assertive here and say to the vet you aren't comfortable with that dose, and that you want to be very cautious because of the recent overdose situation (or any time you have concerns about treatment, tests, etc). You are allowed to negotiate, for example, trying a lower dose first for 3-5 days, and home-testing to see the results, then sharing the data with the vet, and then adjusting the dose as needed (aka, the Tilly protocol). It may be helpful to you to read the "Convert A Vet" stickie post.
 
Well Sasha and I made it through our first home testing run, and the results were less than optimal. I had to lance her three times to get any blood out. The first two tries were with this little cap over the lance which made seeing where the needle was going impossible, so on the third attempt I removed the cap and just freehanded jabbed her. That produced some results. I put the test strip up to the blood and saw the countdown start, but then it ended with E-4. Which means nothing to me. I looked in the manual and see nothing about that code, which I'm assuming is an error of some type.

She's hiding in the closet now, but she did eat a little bit of the gravy in a can of Fancy Feast (while leaving the actual solids alone). I hate that she's in hiding, especially since we're going to have to go through this again in a couple of hours. :sad:
 
Couple of things that may help, try warming her ear up, either by rubbing it really good, you can do that while deguising it as just lots of head rubs. Or using a rice sock, baby socks work great for this, but any small sock that is fairly thinnish and cotton, fill it with about 1/4 to 1/2 cup of plain white rice or lentils, toss in the microwave for about 20 seconds. I got Musette use to it by rubbing her all over with it first, she liked the warmth.

Also make sure you are backing the ear with something fairly sturdy. I personally just use the same rice sock that I used to warm Musette's ear. Others use a makeup sponge, folded paper towel etc. Just don't want the lancet to bounce off the ear, plus it keeps you from getting poked too.

If your lancing device has a clear cap option use that option makes it easier to see where you are poking. If free-handing try going at a 45 degree angle.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Thanks MommaOfMuse! I tried warming her ear for a little bit beforehand, but she's so skittish from all the pokes and prods she's been getting at the vets that she was already trying to squirm away when I was doing that. I figured to cut that portion of it short to just try and get a reading today.

The lancing device did have the clear cap option, that's the part I had to remove in order to hit what I was actually aiming for. I think I'm going to stick with the cap-off method, it was just too difficult to guess where the needle was about to go. I backed her ear up with some folded up cotton pads to prevent from sticking the needle straight through to my skin.

I'm going to try again tonight around 7:30 to see what I can get, and dose her again at 1u. I really want to get at least one reading before tomorrow, otherwise I have to bring her back into the vet for what will probably be another inaccurate reading that'll confuse me even more. And if I fail doing that, I'll start a new thread (or find an older appropriate one) on the topic since this one has started encompassing all things Sasha-related, rather than any one specific problem :) I certainly don't want to be the cause behind good information getting lost under a misleading headline!
 
Melinda...you can always call for a walk thru. sometimes using the strip in a non-sipping way, or poking in just the slightly off spot can reduce blood drop.
there is a way to be set up so it all goes smoothly.
 
Couple other tips is if she is really squirmy, if you get a good blood droplet but she is squirmy, catch the droplet on the back of your thumb or fingernail and test it from that.

Musette is easy because she is a small cat...6lbs so I can stick her under my arm like a football. Maxwell on the other hand is BIG BOY, 16lbs, long and tall at first he was tough, so I would put him on a large beach towel and wrap him up like a kitty burrito, with just his head showing. And always remember the treats, something special that she only gets at test time...for my kids that is little bites of water packed sardines. And Sasha gets the treat whether you get a successful test or not, she has held up he end of the bargin for letting you try, its not her fault that it didnt work, so she is rewarded either way. Maxwell figure it out so well that he now comes when he see the test kit, even though he has been in remission for 8 months...lol. So now when I test Musette, Maxwell has to have a treat too and about half the time when I'm done testing Musette, Maxwell will crawl in my lap looking for his test too.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Thanks Lori! I'm going to try it one more time tonight and pray I get it right, if that fails I'll PM you to arrange a good time for a phone call.

MommaofMuse - Maxwell sounds so sweet! That is an adorable response for him to have, I hope that one day I can get Sasha comfortable enough with the process to have a similar reaction. I gave her treats after the attempt today, but I think I should come up with something special for test time rather than the same old Temptations I always give her.
 
Hi guys, I just read through this thread and can't believe everything you two have been through! I'm so happy Sasha has made such a nice recovery .. getting the blood out of her ear will come in time .. I know you will get it ... Again, so happy the outcome is good!!
 
'Nother tip
Pick up some neosporin ointment (not cream) with topical anesthetic in it.
Apply a very small amount before testing.
This will slightly numb the ear, plus the ointment version helps the blood bead up into a drop.
Apply a few minutes before you intend to poke (perhapsright before you warm and massage the ears)
After words, you may wipe off any residue.

A low carb treat after testing rewards the kitty and helps reduce resistance too. (Spitzer gets a piece or two of dry kibble and voluntarily comes into the bathroom for testing, though he is a bit squirmy at times)
 
Hillary & Maui said:
another inexpensive canned food option is:

friskies special diet - pates, don't get the gravy ones as those are higher in carbs.

my girls like turkey & giblets, beef & liver - these are lower in phosphorus, while still being low carb and relatively decent canned food.
Click to expand...

My girls eat this as well. To be honest they go between the special diet flavors that are low carb and regular flavors that are low carb (around 7%). Both Margaret (sugar kitty but she's off insulin) and Julia (civie) get tested just to be on the safe side though and as long as numbers are good and they're eating, I'll stick with it. For what it's worth, they both stick their noses up at Fancy Feast but love Friskies. Both girls love gravy in their food but with the lower carb foods you don't see that as much so I make them "gravy." I think part of it is the gravy makes the food soft & mushy for them. So, I simply mix their food with water (a fork or spoon to mix it works fine) until it's mushy. It's somewhat like a thick soup and they love it. Margaret was another dry food cat and I actually got her to transition to wet food by making a "cat shake" which was recommended on this board. I blended a can of cat food in the blender with a few tbsp of water until it was creamy. I gave it to Margaret next to her dry food. She ignored it. The next time she came over she tried it and never went back to dry again. Just an idea...The funny thing is that is the only time I ever used the new blender...for cat food. :lol: Oh the things we do for our fur babies.

I'm so happy to hear Sasha is doing better!!! She's adorable.
 
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