My Biscuits has developed Diabetic Neuropathy

Hello everyone,
I have been MIA for a few months because I was unable to post here, especially replying to previous posts from other members. I don't know if that issue has been fixed or not but I'm hoping it has. I have 2 diabetic cats, brother and sister. Biscuits, the female, was diagnosed with neuropathy in her back legs/feet and possibly up to her spine on Thursday last week. I had suspected this for a few weeks but wasn't 100% sure that's what it was. Skittles, her brother, has been a diabetic for 6 years and he's doing great for the most part. His worst problem is that he's developed cataracts but he can still see well enough to function normally for the most part. Biscuits was described as a "fragile diabetic", meaning she's not responding well to anything we do including the insulin.
Just a few minutes ago I tested her blood sugar and it clocked in at 400! Why?????? All she has eaten today is 1/2 a can of Fancy Feast pate. The vet told me NO on the Fancy Feast and wants her strictly on Hill's Prescription Diet m/d. I am frustrated because here most people are saying no to the kibble, any kind of kibble and the vet says no to the canned stuff. I had all 3 indoor cats on Weruva Cats in the Kitchen canned food for a few years. They weren't crazy about it and I was spending a ton of money on food they didn't like. I read the posts here suggesting that I put them on Fancy Feast and they love it but the vet thinks that is the culprit.
Now, to be fair, this was a new vet at the clinic I use, she is not familiar with me or my cats yet, so I'm trying not to lose my cool but I am inclined to think that it's the kibble and not the wet food causing this problem.
Someone at the clinic told me months ago "don't worry if her numbers are high, it will just stress you out, as long as you give her the m/d and her insulin she'll be okay". Except she's not. My baby can no longer jump on my bed to come sleep with me at night, she can't get on the windowsill without being picked up, she can't get in her favorite chair to sleep with her brothers - and I'm not supposed to worry about her numbers being high??????? This is what not worrying got me. I have been worried for months, trying everything I can think of to help my baby and I'm getting so many mixed messages that I don't know what to do.
I just want her sugar to come down, I want her to be able to walk and jump like she used to and I feel like if I don't fix this issue fast, I'm going to be putting her in a little wooden box very soon to add to my collection of cremated cats.
These cats are my soulmates, I rescued them 11 years ago, it's what I do. I have 27 cats in total, 24 of which live outside in my yard - all ferals and strays. Thank God none of them appear to have these issues, but regardless, my cats are my world and I just want to help my sweet Biscuits before it's too late.
She's due for a curve test at the vet on Wednesday. I really hate doing those and it stresses her out, costs me a ton of money I don't have and really doesn't tell me anything I don't already know.
What do you suggest? With 2 diabetics, this is costly and making me crazy. I just want my baby to feel better and right now I am at a loss on how to make that happen for her.

 

Your vet is wrong. M/D is not a great option for diabetic cats, even the wet M/D is too high in carbs. Weruva products (not Cats in the Kitchen pouches which are a bit higher carb than you should feed) and Fancy Feast below 10% carbs are good options. The catinfo.org website is a good one to read on feline nutrition. This food list from there, lists many foods commercially available. You want foods below 10% carbs.

Which insulin are you giving? What is the dose? If you are home testing blood sugars regularly, you don't need to go to the vet for a curve.

Once you get her better regulated, that will help with the neuropathy. As will methyl B12 - Zobaline is one option. Here is more on Feline Diabetic Neuropathy

 

Hi Karen you might want to set up your signature, it's at the end of everyone's post, information about our cats ,so we don't have to ask you the same questions over and over again, look at mine and you will see what info I am talking about
Here's the link to helping us to help you.

 

It would be good to set up our spreadsheet to keep track of your kitties BG in order for us to help you with dosing. It's at the end of everyone's post , mine says Tyler's spreadsheet.
You can also look at other members
I will give you the link and also tag
@Bandit's Mom Bhooma to help you
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

This link will also explain how the spreadsheet works

 

Most of us feed the Fancy Feast Classic Pates, please look at the food list that Wendy gave you above.
Trying to save you money, you can do your own curve at home and send it to your vet.
I don't know what kind of meter you have but almost all of us use a human meter from Walmart
The Relion Prime it's 9 dollars
17.88 for 100 test strips
Our numbers are based oh human meters
Alpha Trak Pet meter, the test strips are way too expensive
For the neuropathy you can buy Zobaline but it's expensive for only a qty of 60
Most of us buy the Vitacost Brand I'll give you the link
It's a capsule , open it up and sprinkle it on the wet food, it's tasteless
Mix it in good and add water to the wet food.

 

https://www.vitacost.com



14.49 for 100 capsules , give 1 a day
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
Once you get her better regulated the Methyl B-12 will help
I saw a big improvement in about 2 months
Tyler is back to jumping on things and back to normal

 

Thank you all for your replies and all the amazing information. I have been giving Biscuits the Fancy Feast pates for the past couple of months and she loves them. I did read through the list of foods you provided and the information for each type of wet food, such as the fat, carbs, protein content etc. and I was amazed at how some of the cheaper brands, like 9 Lives and Friskies actually can be good for them as far as carb content goes. That is at least affordable.
I have a page on facebook that is quite helpful with food donations for my outdoor rescues, the strays and ferals, and they have been known to help with the indoor cats too, particularly my 2 diabetics but knowing this information will be much easier to get the help needed because the food is more readily available and much cheaper. The Weruva food I gave them was ridiculously expensive and yet my vet approved that food for them so I felt I had to stick with that for the sake of the cats. When I read that I could give them Fancy Feast pates, and started doing that, she bucked it. I have a brand new bag of Hills Prescription m/d that has not been opened yet. I think I'm going to take that back to the vet and see if I can wean these 3 off of the kibble. They love it of course, but if using only wet food will bring the sugar levels down on both of my diabetics, I will be more than happy to do that.
Please give me a couple of days to read through all of the links you provided above, so I can familiarize myself with everything and then I'll probably post with a load of questions for you about all that. I have to do whatever I can to save my babies from this ridiculous disease.
Some of you asked what insulin they are on. I use Vetsulin, again vet recommended, and Skittles does pretty good with that but Biscuits is not. She gets 3 units twice a day (using U-40 syringes) and Skittles gets 4.5 units twice a day, same syringe. He is also a bigger cat but his sugar stays around 200 or less and aside from temporary blindness a couple of years ago, he has not had any major issues from the diabetes. He is also taking amlodipine once a day for blood pressure, as the vet said the blindness was caused by a spike in blood pressure but as soon as the medication kicked in, he got his sight back within 24 hours. He does have cataracts but he can see well enough to know where's going and he can look at me directly and still see me just fine. He can also see small bugs on the floor or a wall so I don't think the cataracts are bothering him too much. Biscuits was tested for that last week and she has not developed any eye issues yet, thankfully. Right now her biggest issues are her sugar levels staying above 300 and her neuropathy in her back legs.
I so appreciate all of you taking the time to give me pointers on what to do for her and also about the glucose meter. I do use the Alpha Trak and I wish I had known I could use a cheaper human meter. However the Alpha Trak was a gift sent by one of my page members last Christmas via facebook, so I have that until the strips run out. I may invest in the Walmart brand later. My vet told me at one point when I did use a human meter, that the glucose levels were going to be off by at least 100 points either up or down so it couldn't be trusted to give me an accurate reading, hence the reason I wanted the Alpha Trak. Sigh.....anything to make me spend more money right?
I will provide answers to all of your questions as I can over the next day or two. Thank you again for all this helpful information. I hope that we can get Biscuits on track with her blood sugar once I go through all of this and figure out where he "sweet" spot is. Have a blessed week everyone!

 

Your welcome, just keep asking questions, we are happy to help .
We can also suggest better insulins, vetsulin is actually used for dogs
Will talk to you soon

 

Any updates on Biscuits? How are her neuropathy and her numbers?

 

Hi everyone! My apologies for the lack of updates the past week. Things have been crazy over here and I just haven't had a block of time to get on here. Biscuits is currently at the vet. She has been there for 2 days on the verge of ketoacidosis. The vet has run every test they can think of to find out WHY she's not responding to insulin. They did a test for fructosamine and that told them that she's on the "bad" end of glucose control - well duh....I could have told them that! They tested for acromegaly, that came back negative and she's not showing any obvious signs of that anyway. She was vomiting profusely on Monday and was just miserable and worn out afterwards. She did eat but it didn't stay in her tummy long before she got nauseated and sent it back up. My poor girl was a hot mess. I checked her sugar and it was 500! Why???? I've been giving her about 1/3 of a can of Fancy Feast pates, the classic flavors and was under the impression that these were good for her according to all I have read on this site about that. She does have the Hill's Prescription diet m/d but she had not had any of that since the night before and even when she does eat it, she has a few pieces at a time and that's it. I cannot figure out what is causing her sugar to be so high because according to her diet, she's not eating anything bad. I gave her 4 units of insulin at that point and about 2 hours later her sugar was down to 392. Still not great. She continued vomiting after the shot, so I finally decided to get her to the vet because I was worried that maybe she was in ketoacidosis and needed more help than I could give her at home. I was right as far as her being on the very edge of going into ketoacidosis, but they managed to at least get her out of that and also gave her anti-nausea meds and fluids as well. Her neuropathy is not getting any better for obvious reasons and it's breaking my heart to see this cat who was so strong and independent for the last 11 years, suddenly need me to pick her up to get into bed with me or to get on the windowsill where she loves to look outside and also eats up there because we have dogs who eat her food. She can't even walk across our linoleum floor in the kitchen without her back feet sliding everywhere. I watch her two brothers walk with her and they do not have any issues at all. Skittles also has diabetes but he has zero problems with neuropathy, for which I am grateful, but he's been dealing with this for 6 years already. Biscuits has only had it a few months and she's getting hit so hard despite all my efforts.
What do I do?
I told the vet about this page and she kinda brushed it off as "don't google stuff or you'll get false information". I tried to explain to the tech who cared for Biscuits, the last 2 nights about this page and she was very receptive as she has her own diabetic cat, and I told her what the vet said about this and how I can't rely on something I saw on the internet. The thing is, I know all of you here have dealt with diabetic cats for years and have some intense studies about diet, insulin, etc. and how it can affect a cat with this diagnosis and it was like she just didn't seem to get it that I'm not talking to some google search forum, that this is a real website dedicated to cats with diabetes and that maybe she needs to look at this deeper to find out WHY I'm asking the questions about the food, questioning the "glucose control" of Hill's Prescription m/d when my cat's sugar shot up to 571 the day I withheld the Fancy Feaset and gave her only the m/d, questioning whether Vetsulin is the culprit and maybe she's not responding to it the way her brother does. She bucked that idea completely and said that while there are other options for insulin, she feels it would be more stressful on Biscuits body to change the insulin now because it's like starting over with a new diagnosis. Ugh!! To be fair, she's a very new vet, she doesn't know me or my cats at all, and maybe she's not very educated on diabetes in cats. I don't know. The one I was dealing with before who took care of Biscuits from the beginning has been on farm calls the past several days so she hasn't been available for me to talk to about all this. Thankfully today Biscuits is in the hands of a vet I know very well, he's very receptive to looking at different options and he knows I question everything and that I'm very pro-active when it comes to the health of my cats. He is open to new ideas and when I go pick her up this afternoon I'm going to talk to him again about all this and maybe we can make some progress.

One thing I want to know more about is this "zobaline" that was mentioned. What exactly is that? How does it work? Is it something I can order through amazon, Etsy, or does it have to be prescribed by a vet?
I'm going to print off the spreadsheet about all the various foods with the carbs and other info in each of them to PROVE to the vet that the m/d has more carbs than it should to be considered glucose control effective. The thing about that is Biscuits and her brothers really like that food and changing them to something else is going to be tough. I'm talking about the kibble, not the wet food. They will not eat the m/d wet food at all. When I told that to the vet she said she noticed Biscuits was scratching the floor of the cage next to the bowl of wet food as if she was trying to cover litter LOL. I told her to give her the dry kibble and she will eat that without issues. I was right.
I just want my baby girl to get better so she can get back to the way she used to be. I have a hunch that the neuropathy has caused a lot of numbness in her back legs because she was so caked with litter on her feet that it was painful for her to walk. I tried to shave it off, cut it off, pick it off, brush it off and nothing was working. She must have enough feeling in her feet to notice pain because she would pull back when I attempted any version of those things to get her feet cleaned. I finally asked the tech if they could get the groomer to maybe clean her feet somehow because I was worried it would cause infection if that stuff was left on her paw pads too long. I don't know yet if they did that but she said she would definitely get them to try.
Sorry this is so long, just trying to fill you in on everything going on with her.
What do I do now? My sweet girl is supposed to come home this afternoon and I just want her to feel better and I feel like I'm letting her down because I can't seem to make that happen.
Thank you in advance for reading this and for your responses. Looking forward to some solid advice and hopefully a way to resolve this. Have a blessed day everyone!

Karen

 

Hi Karen! I'm sorry to hear everything you and Biscuits are going through. It is really tough when our babies aren't feeling well.

I'm fairly new, but just sharing my experience in case it helps. Nico had a hard time metabolizing Vetsulin. Sadly, I didn't know that until about two months into his injections. He'd drop low around 130, then shoot all the way up into the 600's. Gave this mama a heart attack just about! I could not for the life of me figure out why. On top of that, he ended up also developing horrible neuropathy and cataracts... My poor beautiful boy.
I continued to push and question my vet, and finally just came out and told her "we're switching his insulin." I'm sorry (not sorry lol) but I think 2 months was enough patience and proof that it just wasn't what he needed.

We're now at almost 2 months post switch, along with Zobaline (I bought mine on Amazon - it's just a name brand of methyl B12 that's dosed specifically for diabetic cats.) Nico is back to mostly himself. Still some weakness in the back legs, but he can jump again, plays, purs, the whole 9 yards!

Sending thoughts and prayers for Biscuits. Hopefully she starts to feel better soon!!

 

The wild BG swings is why Magic just left Vetsulin and transitioned to ProZinc. He's going to need a dosage adjustment but the 200+ rises/drops are gone and things are more stable.

Zobaline does NOT require a prescription and you can buy it online: https://www.ilifelink.com/zobaline-for_diabetic_cats-3_mg_x_60_tablets.html

Magic has been on it for a month and even with his wacky blood sugar I can already see a significant different in his walking ability when he comes into the kitchen. Before I started him on it he walked like his hind legs were on rollerskates.

 

Hi Karen - sounds like you have been through the wringer lately.

The newbie vet is wrong - you probably guessed we say that. In addition to acromegaly (so glad that was negative), there is another condition called IAA or insulin auto antibodies that can cause a cat to be resistant to insulin. You can think of IAA as being like an allergic reaction to injected insulin. My Neko had both IAA and acromegaly. Also a condition called Cushings, but that is less common, and you'll often see some skin issues with that condition. Though 4 units is actually not that high a dose yet. Did the vet test for pancreatitis too?

Vetsulin is definitely not the best insulin for a lot of cats. Neko started out on Caninsulin (what it's called in the rest of the world) and it was in and out it too short a time, leaving her high a good part of the time. I switched her to Lantus on recommendation of a locum vet, who by the way, recommended I go to FDMB at the same time. I was already lurking here. Just like all cats are different, so are all vets.

 

Zobaline is a feline version of Methyl B12 that includes another vitamin that helps them absorb it. It's a little pricy, but you do NOT need a prescription for it.

This is what I bought when my girl was showing signs of neuropathy:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IQB2UYS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So long as you get a version of Methyl B12 without any added ingredients, that should help. These are capsules I could open and mix the vitamin into wet food. It's water-soluble as well, so any thing her body doesn't use just gets peed out.

I would also think that switching to one of the AAHA-approved cat insulins would be better for both your sugar kitties (link provided in case you need it to argue your case). ProZinc is cheaper than Lantus, although Semglee was recently approved as a generic version of Lantus, and that is much cheaper than the brand name.

Best of luck talking to this other vet. Unless they specialize in it, many vets only get cursory instruction in how to deal with diabetes in ALL animals. At this point, I'm certain I've read more on the subject than my current vet. Sadly, I tend not to talk to her about Chloe's condition because I get a similar response to finding information online. Nevermind that I am a librarian and I literally have a Master's degree in information literacy.

 

Thank you all so much for your thorough replies to my questions, especially regarding the Zobaline/methyl-B12 and the Vetsulin. I am really, really frustrated with Biscuits blood sugar levels right now. My poor girl is fading and I can feel it. When she came home from the vet last week, I managed to get her sugar down to 190 ONE time. Since then it has remained in the 300-550 range and I cannot figure out why. She's getting 5 units of Vetsulin twice a day. It comes down to about 300 after about 5-6 hours and shoots back up quickly before her next dose at the 12 hour mark. I don't get it. She's eating about 1/2 a 3 oz can of Fancy Feast pates, in the morning and nibbles a little on the Hill's m/d throughout the day but she doesn't eat a lot of it. I have been watching her carefully the past week and she only eats less than 1/8 of a cup in a day, which shouldn't blow her sugar out of proportion like that.
My next thought then is pain. I know in humans, pain can cause a rise in blood sugar levels and perhaps that is what she is experiencing. She is presenting worse symptoms of neuropathy in her back legs and she walks maybe 5-10 steps and just plops down wherever she is because she just can't go further. This is NOT my Biscuits. She has always been a strong cat, very independent and spunky and now she just sits down or sleeps all day. It's like she's lost her drive and I know that she's either depressed, in pain or both. If she is in severe pain, the gabapentin isn't working very well. We started her on that a few weeks ago and she's just lethargic now and I notice if I give her half of a 75 mg tablet, she's more responsive, so I'm thinking it makes her sleepy. That being said, it doesn't seem to be helping with the pain. She doesn't want to cuddle much either now. I feel a bit like she's pulling away from me because she knows she's not going to be around much longer. That's my gut feeling anyway.
It's breaking my heart because my vet doesn't want to listen to me when I tell them what I've learned on this board. It's like automatic resistance and yet I'm the only advocate for my cats. I know these babies better than anybody and I know I'm just seeing a shell of what Biscuits used to be like. On a comical note, one of her weird quirks, is smelling people's breath. It's been a thing with her since she was a kitten. I don't know why, but it's funny to say the least. She doesn't even do that anymore. My best friend comes over and she loves "Auntie Jean", and her breath but now she won't go anywhere near her. She will come for a quick pet and that's it. I'm losing my cat in the emotional sense, she is pulling away and I can't let that happen.
I'm looking at the Zobaline, just can't really afford it right now but trying to at least get a little bit to try on her. What about colloidal silver. Has anyone here ever found that to be effective with diabetic cats when put in their food or water? I have plenty of that but I'm afraid to try it for fear of making matters worse. I don't know how it would affect her blood sugar or even if it does.

I apologize for my slow responses to all of you - I am a caregiver to a disabled person, I have a colony of 26 cats, 6 of them are 4 month old kittens, and 4 dogs on top of that. Life just gets in my way sometimes and I can't get on here as much as I'd like to and need to. I do sincerely appreciate all of your responses though and I have been reading them as time allows. I also haven't had a chance to work on the spreadsheet for Biscuits or Skittles, but hope to do that sometime in the next few days. Wishing you all a blessed rest of your day!

 

I have to agree with the other posters who have not had any luck with getting their kitties regulated on Vetsulin. That was my experience also. I think Librarianista gave you some really excellent advice about switching to one of the AAHA-approved cat insulins. Is the vet you're using opposed to trying another insulin? I believe you have given Vetsulin more than a reasonable trial on poor Biscuits. Has she been tested for pancreatitis? That is a very painful disease for cats and perhaps something else to ask your vet about although he/she doesn't sound like they are very welcoming of your input. You are right--you have to be your cat's number one advocate. She is yours and you care more about her than any vet ever will. Is another vet a possibility?

 

@feralcatmama ,

I just had a battle with my vet last week to get Magic switched. I basically told him that what we’re doing isn't working and we’re switching him to ProZinc now… period. He wasn’t too happy but did as I asked. When he started pushing back and I told him the matter wasn’t up for discussion. Things aren’t perfect but I do see significant improvements in his AMPS and PMPS.

In my case the main cause of the resistance was because the patients he had tried ProZinc on it didn’t work well… The patients were DOGS! I told him that from what I had read ProZinc was built from the ground up for cats.

 

Before we switched to Lantus, I went through the entire grief process over Chloe… twice. She was a lethargic mess, not at all the cat I remembered, obviously feeling unwell and I couldn’t just make it go away.

A few ER visits later because of high BG and not eating, we switched both insulin and food, and a little B12. I noticed her having more energy within a couple of weeks, and her BG started normalizing. I thought I was going to have to put this cat down and now she’s hanging out on my lap, cuddly as can be.

I am so sorry this vet is one you have to be firm with when you’ve got so much else on your plate. Hopefully once you have a new prescription, you won’t have to discuss it with them further. I hardly ever talk about Chloe’s diabetes with mine because she seems less than interested in what I’ve learned.

 

I don't think Biscuits has pancreatitis, but it's good to know that's a possibility and something to watch for. I appreciate you mentioning that. The problem with the vets right now is that they work in rotation, so the one I saw that discharged Biscuits last week, is a bit more open to discussing other options. The new one who treated her when I first brought her in, doesn't know me or my cats very well at all, and we are still dancing around each other trying to figure out what is best. I know she means well and she's very nice and seems genuinely concerned for Biscuits but like the others, she prefers to keep her on Vetsulin. I don't understand why! The only thing she mentioned about that is starting her on a new insulin would be like starting from the beginning when she was first diagnosed and that it's quite stressful on a cat's body. Fine, I get that but isn't it more stressful on her having super high sugar levels constantly and being poked and poked over and over to keep tabs on her sugar all day? I hate it for her and I know she's stressing about it. I just took her sugar again a few minutes ago and we had a battle. She moved every time I tried to get blood from her ear, so I end up poking my fingers instead. Once I finally got that, her sugar was reading 595. Now here's the thing. Earlier this afternoon, around 4 pm, her sugar was reading 199 - that's the lowest it has been since the day I got her home from the vet last week. I was cautiously optimistic. Zoom ahead a few hours and Skittles is making me crazy with his whining and carrying on while I was cooking our supper. I couldn't figure out why he was doing that because that's not the norm for him but awhile later I came into the livingroom and he was sitting by his food bowl which was empty - of the Hill's m/d. I filled the bowl a little bit and Biscuits tore into it right away - now at almost 11 pm, her sugar is 595. IT IS the m/d, I'm sure of it because she's not reacting that way to the Fancy Feast wet food. Why can vets not see this? Glucose control???? Right!!! I don't know what Hill's is smoking but something stinks in those ingredients and I know many of you have said that it's not good for diabetic cats at all. I am inclined to listen to you over a vet who is probably getting paid to promote Hills products. No disrespect to our vets, they are usually awesome until Biscuits got sick like this and now we're not agreeing on a form of treatment.
Unfortunately, where I live, this is the best vet clinic available and they know me well there, as I'm constantly in there with one cat or another week after week it seems and most times I have no issues with them or the treatments given to the cats that I bring in. I have been using them for years and never had issues until now with Biscuits.
I'm going to call them back tomorrow and talk to them a bit more about changing to ProZinc perhaps and seeing what they say to that. Something has to give because my sweet girl is miserable and I'm miserable for her. I love that cat with my whole heart and I just want to see her feeling good again and being happy like she used to be. This isn't working the way things are. Thank you again for your input, I am writing down what you all suggest so I can present it to the vet and show him/her what others with diabetic cats are saying and what has worked. Maybe that will change some minds over there. I can hope right?

 

That's very interesting about ProZinc not working on dogs and therefore the vet resisting your request for Magic. I don't know much about it either except from what I have read here from those of you who are using it and the results being more positive for your cats. Is it cheaper than Vetsulin? I get mine for $35 a vial from a local cat sanctuary who orders it wholesale for me, which is nice, but when I can't get it from them, it costs me $60 at the vet. Plus I have to use u-40 syringes. I don't mind them but the only place I can get them quickly is through the vet for $16 for 100. I tried a cheaper brand through the sanctuary and they were horrible. It was $13 a box for 100 and they were bent in some cases, or the plunger didn't work properly, some of them moved up and down too fast, others were too tight - it was weird. I used them up because I hated to waste my money but at least 10 of them went to the trash before ever administering the insulin because of those issues. Can you use U-100's with the ProZinc or still the U-40's?
Thank you for your reply, I'm interested to know about how Magic is doing going forward and if his blood sugar stabilizes for him. Please keep me posted. I hope it works for him because if it does, I can use that as more proof that another cat has had success with it as well. Sending positive vibes for him!

 

Prozinc is a U40 insulin, and more expensive than Vetsulin. However, if left in the fridge, a vial can last for 5-6 months. Just keep an eye on signs of deterioration.

Both ProZinc and U40 syringes can be obtained from Chewy, if that’s a resource you use. You could check prices there. You could also see if the rescue sanctuary could get it for you, since it is a pet-specific insulin.

 

ProZinc through my vet was $100/vial. It uses U40 syringes. I get mine through my vet but our local Walmart has them for like $13/100 also.

They had to special order the ProZinc so I ordered two vials so that way I can always call and have them reorder when I start on the second vial.

 

I'm definitely interested in the ProZinc but that is super expensive compared to the Vetsulin. I might be able to get it through the cat sanctuary here, I'd have to check with them but it's already hard enough with 2 cats on Vetsulin and using 2 vials a month between them, or every 6 weeks if I'm lucky. With Biscuits having 5 units now twice a day, it's draining that vial a lot faster. Skittles gets 4.5 units twice a day as well, but he's been stable there for a few years and doing fine with that so far. I'll have to definitely do some researching on prices for the ProZinc if I want to head in that direction.
Another thing that concerns me is gabapentin. Do you or anyone else here use that for a diabetic cat and does it cause a rise in blood sugar? With Biscuits it seems to make her really lethargic but I also find that her sugar goes up when I give her a whole 75 mg tablet. If I give her half of a tablet it isn't quite as bad. I know some medications can do that to humans so I'm curious if anyone knows if gabapentin has that effect as well.

 

Thank you for that info, I definitely do use Chewy for food and have gotten the Hill's kibble from them in the past. I don't do that anymore but I will compare prices with them and the cat sanctuary. I believe they use Drs. Foster & Smith for a lot of their meds and other supplies, so I'll call them to see if they can do a price check on it there as well. They can get it a lot cheaper because they are a 501 (c) 3 non-profit sanctuary and therefore a lot of stuff they get wholesale and if someone like me needs those items as well, they will only charge me what they pay for it. I think that's a fair deal so I'm interested to see what they would pay for the ProZinc. I know the vet at the sanctuary very well and I'm sure she would write a prescription for Biscuits if that was necessary if my current vet doesn't agree to this.
It's good to know the insulin lasts quite awhile though, that's a big plus. Is it the same size as a vetsulin vial? I know those are pretty tiny so I'm curious if the cost difference might also mean more insulin per vial.

 

"Gabapentin Side Effects In Cats
The most common side effects seen in cats with gabapentin are lethargy and abnormal walking/movement, which is called ataxia. It is important to note that some of these effects may be expected or even desired when gabapentin is used intentionally as a sedative. Effects typically start to wear off within 12 hours.

Gabapentin should be used cautiously in cats with liver or kidney disease, as we may see it take longer for the effects to wear off. Its use should typically be avoided in pregnant queens."

The vet site this came from didn't say anything about a rise in blood sugar but that's not to say it isn't possible. It did say also to make sure the formulation used doesn't contain xylitol.

Many of us use buprenorphine for pain in our sugar kitties. I hope you see an improvement in Biscuits' high numbers soon. It is so worrying and heartbreaking when you feel they are slipping away and you don't know how to help. This is the best place to be for help, I will say that. Many of us who were lucky enough to find this forum had already been at our wits' end with unhelpful and sometimes downright bad advice from our vets and our beloved sugar kitties were suffering for it. So keep asking any questions you have. We are all pulling for you and Biscuits and are so glad your other sugar cat is stable.

Another thought--maybe if Biscuits were switched to another insulin to which she is more responsive, there could be a chance that she wouldn't need as large a dose. That's what happened to my kitty

 

Christianna - I did mention to the vet that I was wanting to switch Biscuits to a different insulin because she doesn't seem to be responding to Vetsulin very well at all. She immediately bucked that idea telling me that switching her to a new insulin would be like starting all over as if she was newly diagnosed and put a lot of stress on her body. While that may be true, the current insulin is not working, we've upped the dose from 3 to 5 units now and about 30 minutes ago I took her sugar and it was 371 - almost 5 hours after her dose this morning. This vet is new and she doesn't know my cats nor me, so part of me thinks she's just "doing as she's told" so to speak because she is so new to the clinic and maybe under probation for awhile so she's not wanting to deviate from what is expected. I don't know, it's just a thought but my cat is not acting normal anymore and it's killing me to see her like this. Her inability to walk properly and jump on my bed or up to the windowsill where her food bowl is, is heartbreaking. She doesn't want to be held much anymore, she'll tolerate it for a few minutes and then she "needs to get down" and she'll crawl off alone, not even hanging out with her brothers like she used to. She is very bonded with both of them so it makes me think that she knows she's sick and maybe she's preparing for her death by detaching herself from all of us. I don't know what to think about that. It could be she's just feeling so miserable that she just wants to be left alone.
I plan to call the vet back on Monday and speak to one of them that I know well and that knows my cats and talk about moving her to a different insulin. I am not convinced that the Vetsulin will ever work for her and I also don't like the Hill's m/d and need to wean all 3 cats off of it and get them on a strictly wet food diet. It's really aggravating seeing how much she loves that food and then watch her sugar spike when she eats just a few nibbles of it. I mean why not just let her eat Meow Mix or Cat Chow then? I cannot fathom how Hill's has the audacity to tell us that the m/d is for glucose control when it's full of carbs and fats! I am thankful that I found this group and for the wealth of information given here because I have learned far more in the few weeks I have been talking with all of you than I ever have in the years I've been dealing with the vet and Skittles having diabetes. Thankfully he's doing pretty good but Biscuits is a whole different ball of fur and she's got me very worried about her.
I appreciate your reply and the info about the gabapentin. I don't think this one has the xylitol in it, as she seems okay with it, but it does make her very sleepy so I've been giving her half of a pill instead of a whole one each day and that does seem to help a little with reducing her lethargy. One thing I have noticed with it is that her muscle spasms are worse now. She's been spasming for a few months now since she was diagnosed but it's become a lot more obvious with the gabapentin. Is that something your cat has dealt with along with the diabetes? Biscuits started having muscle spasms that almost looked like seizures at first, when she started with the diabetes but I think it bothers me more than her. She does it asleep and awake but it's more pronounced when she's asleep. Skittles has never had that happen. He had one mild seizure about a year after his diagnosis, and just his head was shaking but it didn't last long, maybe 2 minutes and he's never had another one. The vet couldn't explain why that happened but since he hasn't had more since then we chalked it up to just a random seizure without known cause and left it at that.
This is definitely stressful but I'm determined to find a fix for my baby. She doesn't deserve to live out her life like this. I miss the kitty she used to be and I want her back. I will stop at nothing to make that happen if it's within my power to do so. Thank you again for taking the time to reply to me. Have a blessed day!

 

This is 100% NOT true!

I just made the switch with my vet. Magic was on 4u of Vetsulin and transitioned directly to 4u ProZinc. If your vet was concerned they could start with 3u and go from there but you don’t have to start from ground zero.

Look at Magic’s spreadsheet and you can see how we did it. It wasn’t hard at all.

I had very similar arguments with my vet and finally said this is what we are doing… PERIOD. I made it crystal clear that it was not up for debate or discussion.

He wasn’t too happy but just the change in numbers in the week since the switch got me an apology and he acknowledge that for him it does seem to be working much better.

Just because they have a title after their name doesn’t make them God. Your cat, your rules.

 

I agree totally with what Denver said (see above). It is absolute nonsense to say that switching to a new insulin is "starting all over again!" One of my cats (Donut) transitioned straight from Vetsulin to Levemir and improved almost overnight and had no bad effects whatsoever. But I did, like many others on the forum, have to state to the vet that switching was what I was going tp do. I didn't ask permission. I stated it. Period. I got no end of valuable advice here on the forum and the experienced members helped me every step of the way, as they will for you. I wonder if your vet is familiar with the quote that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If you have been treating Biscuits with Vetsulin for months and she is continuing to decline, what do you have to lose in switching immediately and monitoring her closely, as you are clearly doing anyway? On the flip side, if you continue to go on with the Vetsulin, the damage from her high numbers is going to be cumulative and I'm very sorry to say that the end result will be very heartbreaking if you lose her. You will likely be asking yourself why you didn't at least try the switch while you still could. I do feel, from what I've read of your posts, that time is being wasted with the ongoing resistance and stupid advice from your vet and that the best thing you can do is put your foot down immediately while there may still time to turn this thing around. Monday morning, I'd be on the phone. Time is of the essence, especially if Biscuits is crawling off to be alone. That is never a good sign

 

I have gotten the vet to agree to switch Biscuits to ProZinc in 2 weeks if upping the dose of Vetsulin to 6 units twice a day doesn't work. I don't think we'll make it two weeks though. The higher dosage isn't working. Yesterday, (Friday morning), her sugar was 226 in the morning, the lowest it has been since I got her home from the vet. I was optimistic but not stupid because I know that it means nothing unless it stays there. When I checked her sugar last night before giving her the 2nd dose, she was at 619. What is going on with my cat???? She didn't eat anything out of the ordinary and she's not eating a lot anyway, so that brings me to think that she's in pain. As I said in a previous message, I know pain causes a rise in blood glucose levels in humans. I take care of a diabetic woman in my household and she has chronic back and knee pain. When it gets bad, even without eating anything and taking her insulin (she's on Levemir and Novolog pens), her sugar goes as high as 500 sometimes. I asked the vet if he thought this was possible and he said definitely but not common in animals though he is not ruling that out for Biscuits. He also mentioned something concerning that she may not be dealing with neuropathy but possibly Cushings Disease. They did a senior blood panel on her when she was at the vet a few weeks ago and also a fructosamine test and there was nothing said about Cushings Disease during that discussion when the results came back. That being said, it was a different (and new) vet dealing with her then so it was either missed or just not a concern at the time. The vet I spoke to the other day knows me well and I've been dealing with him for years. He at least listens to my concerns and he agrees that ProZinc is definitely the next step for Biscuits but without seeing her he's not sure what to think about neuropathy and/or pain levels.
She is taking gabapentin for pain. I got 75 mg tablets for her but when I give her a whole one, she becomes very lethargic, so I have been giving her half a tablet in the morning and she seems to do better with that.
I also got a shipment of Weruva Cats in the Kitchen food today, not the foil packs but the cans, so I'm going to put her back on that and see if her sugar comes down. The vet is so convinced it's the Fancy Feast that's causing this problem but she's getting less than a can of it every morning and just in the morning, but eats the Hill's Prescription m/d dry food as she wants to. She doesn't eat a lot, I'd say about 1/8 of a cup over the course of the day but it seems that is what causes her sugar to go up because of the carb content. I'm giving her Fancy Feast pates, not the gravy or creamy types, and she loves them. I split 2 cans of it between her and her 2 brothers since Skittles is also diabetic and they all go crazy for it. I don't think less than a can of FF is the issue because there's just not that much food in one serving for her sugar to go so high. She gets no treats at all, like Temptations or Friskies etc. so that's not the problem either.
I am still trying to get my hands on some methyl-B12, just can't afford it right now. I am currently doing a fundraiser on my facebook page, via an online auction, to help with her vet bill and hopefully out of that I can get some Zobaline or similar product and try that on her. Wish me luck as the auction isn't doing that great. Facebook blocks a lot of my posts when it comes to auctions so I'm having to work extra hard to get the word out. If we can net $1000 or more on the auction I can get her bill paid, spay one of my strays and get the ProZinc and methyl-B12. Hopefully it will work out that way.
Thank you again for all your advice, suggestions and feedback. I look forward to resolving this problem in the near future and hope that Biscuits will feel a lot better and get back to her normal self again. Have a blessed weekend everyone!

 

I’ve been following this thread. My girl, KittyLou is having a terrible time getting regulated also. She had hyperthyroid along with diabetes. She was never too close to being regulated with the diabetes, but on August 31, she had I 131 to correct the hyperthyroid. Since then her BGs have been in the 400’s and 500’s and I been upping the Lantus to no avail. Added to that, in the past 2 days she has very quickly developed neuropathy, and can’t even jump on the couch. She will only eat dry food and right now is on Royal Canin Glycobalance.
It breaks my heart to see how bad she walks. The vet thinks that things will eventually level out and improve but after seeing her decline with the neuropathy the past few days, I’m wondering how much more she can take.

 

I'm so sorry to hear about your kitty struggling with her diabetes and neuropathy too. It is heartbreaking to watch them deteriorate like that and feel so utterly helpless. Mine is doing pretty much the same thing as yours, so I understand. The difference is that Biscuits will eat both wet and dry and she's loving every bit of it, but she drinks excessively and urinates every drop she drinks. I go through more litter now than I ever have because of that. She's also on Vetsulin, which is affordable but not working as well for her as it does for her brother, Skittles. He was diagnosed several years ago and has done pretty well with his diet and insulin but haven't gotten him reversed yet. Biscuits is a whole other ball of fur (wax?). She isn't responding to the Vetsulin like he did at all and she's on a higher dose than he is and her sugar is still running in the 400-600 range. It seems worse in the evenings for some reason, can't figure that out. I am hoping to get some methyl-B12 tablets for her this week sometime and maybe that much will help with the neuropathy but I'm still at a loss on the insulin issue. Vet is okay with changing her to ProZinc but my wallet isn't. That stuff is way too expensive for my budget on a fixed income. I'm hoping that changing foods may help with this and we just have to figure out her sweet spot to get the right balance. Best of luck with your kitty, I sure hope you find some answers for her too. Feel free to "talk" here, if nothing else we can swap stories.

 

I have having a bad time of it lately. It was not even a month ago that KittyLou was on 2 units of Basaglar (Lantus but cheaper) twice a day. The vet keeps upping her. Her numbers aren't really budging. The vet told me tonight to up it to 5. It just does not seem right to me that she needs that much insulin. She does not feel good on all this insulin and I dont really think its working on her for some reason. I would like a really experienced vet to look it over. I wish I could find more people like you who are in a similar situation, and how they resolved it.
My other cat died suddenly on Sunday night. She was hyperthyroid and went down really fast last weekend. I feel like I have PTSD with all that is going on!
Anything new with Biscuits? Have you tried the methyl-B12 yet?

 

Hi @Diane Tyler's Mom !
I love this site,!
I found out about Vitacost B12 here. It’s been a miracle cure for my SugarLou.
My question is this…. Do I really need to give him the Folic Acid that was in the Zobaline?
I’ve been buying it separate and crushing the pill. If it’s not truly necessary I’d rather not give it to him
TIA
Lynda and Lou

 

Hi @Lynda and Louis
I know there were some members that didn't add the folic acid and still got good results
Louis is so adorable !

 

When you can afford it get the vitacost brand much cheaper
https://www.vitacost.com



14.49 for 100 capsules , give 1 a day
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-100-capsules-6
Once you get her better regulated the Methyl B-12 will help
I saw a big improvement in about 2 months
Tyler is back to jumping on things and back to normal

 

feralcatmama said:
I am hoping to get some methyl-B12 tablets for her this week sometime and maybe that much will help with the neuropathy but I'm still at a loss on the insulin issue. Vet is okay with changing her to ProZinc but my wallet isn't. That stuff is way too expensive for my budget on a fixed income. I'm hoping that changing foods may help with this and we just have to figure out her sweet spot to get the right balance. Best of luck with your kitty, I sure hope you find some answers.

Have you tried contacting DCIN (Diabetic Cats in Need)? They are a wonderful group that often can help people on fixed incomes with insulin that they might not be able to afford otherwise. I know they have a Facebook page that explains the procedure for applying for assistance.

 

I am so very sorry to hear of the sudden loss of your hyperthyroid kitty. So very heartbreaking, especially combined with the struggle you're having with KittyLou. Sending prayers...

 

Hi Christianna, thank you for your reply. I have not contacted DCIN yet. I have heard about them but just never got around to checking out their page on facebook or contacting them. I probably should do that though, as I am seriously considering moving Biscuits to ProZinc but after talking with the vet and a friend of mine who runs a local cat sanctuary, the price was astronomical. Even though my friend can get it at cost, because the sanctuary is a registered non-profit, it was still running $85.00 a vial and that's just way out of my budget. I appreciate the reminder about DCIN and I'll make a point to look into that now for Biscuits. Thank you!!

 

I did not get the Vitacost brand, someone on my facebook page sent me Nutricost Vitamin B-12 but it says 2000 mcg. Since you're giving your kitty 5000 mcg, I assume I would have to use 2.5 capsules to equal that for Biscuits right? Would just 2 capsules be okay making it 4000 mcg? I've been a bit paranoid about trying this, as Biscuits is so fragile that I don't want to make matters worse. I am hoping with everything in me that this will help her with her walking and jumping abilities again. I miss my sweet girl playing with me when I make my bed up and she would wait for me to spread the sheets/blankets out and jump under them before they landed on the bed and then dart around under the sheets. We used to play "Where is Biscuits" when she would do that and I'd poke around on the blankets or sheets and try to "find" her. Comically, she would always let out a squeak when I got close enough and then I would pull the covers back really fast and say "There she is!" and she'd roll over and wait for me to rub her belly or shower her with kisses. She doesn't do that anymore and while it's such a simple thing, it was "our" little playtime. I hope that the B-12 will get her back to wanting to play with me again soon.
Do you have any idea how long it takes before you start seeing results?
Thank you for your reply and I hope you have a blessed day!

 

Thank you Lynda.
I do use the Alpha Trak II meter. I got it as a gift from one of my page members last Christmas. It was intially meant for Skittles because Biscuits had not yet been diagnosed. I agree the strips are ridiculously expensive but one reason I got this one was because one of my vets told me that human meters were not designed for animal blood and that the readings would be off by 50-100 points either higher or lower and that I couldn't really get an accurate idea of where his sugar was at back then. (what did I know?) Now that I'm more familiar with how this works I can see why the Reli-On meters would be more economical. I am going to look into that once my Alpha Trak strips are gone. Might as well use them while I have them right?
I got a bottle of Nutricost Vitamin B-12 also from a member of my facebook page. It is not as strong as the Vitacost, as it's only 2000 mcg so from what I am reading here from others using B-12, I should give her 5000 mcg once a day. Getting 1/2 a capsule might not be that simple as they are quite small, so I'm thinking of starting her on 4000 mcg which would equal 2 capsules each day. Do you have any idea how long it takes for this stuff to get into their system and produce results? Is it a few days or weeks? I've never done this before so I'm trying to do the best I can for Biscuits. I appreciate your reply, and I will definitely look into the Walmart meter in a few weeks when my strips are used up for the AT meter. Wishing you a blessed day!

 

I'm so sorry to hear about your kitty that passed away. That is so sad. I've never had a kitty with hyperthyroid so that's totally new to me but sounds like it was pretty scary too that she went downhill so quickly. That must have been so hard for you! Thank you for asking about Biscuits in the midst of your pain with losing your furbaby. She's about the same, not better, not worse. Her sugar is still running between 350-590 most days. Evenings seem to be worse with high glucose levels and I can't figure out why. She doesn't eat that much so the only thing I can think of is that she's in more pain than I know of and that the gabapentin isn't doing much to combat that. I am hoping the Methyl-B12 will start helping her with pain and maybe bring the numbers down that way. I know with humans that pain can raise glucose levels quite a bit. The lady I live with and take care of has chronic pain and her sugar stays high even when she has not eaten anything for several hours. She's on 2 types of insulin and even that doesn't work sometimes. I sometimes think it's the same with cats, but it's so hard to know because they can't tell us anything.
I'm going to start Biscuits on the B-12 tomorrow morning and hopefully it won't be long before we start seeing some positive results.
May your beloved kitty rest in peace at the Rainbow Bridge until you can see her again. I understand the heartbreak all too well. It never gets easier no matter how many times we go through it. All I can say is that you gave her an amazing life and without you, she may have had a very different life that wasn't so good and that she left this world on the wings of your love. She knows she was loved and she's smiling down on you now and thanking you for giving her the best life she could have hoped for! Sending big hugs your way!

 

Hi yes you can just give 2 capsules a day,
Just want to be sure that the one you got is the Methyl B-12
Once Biscuit's BG is regulated the Methyl B-12 should help, you can start giving it to
her now. I saw a big improvement in about 2 months, each week or so I started seeing an improvement.
You don't have your spreadsheet set up yet,would you like someone to set it up for both your kitties so we can see how the insulin is working for them and give you advice if needed

What an adorable game she played with you

One thing I notice you are also feeding the Hills M/D Dry which is very high in carbs, around 17% carbs. Too high, since you don't have a spreadsheet set up we don't know both cats BG numbers. There is nothing special about the prescription food.
There is nothing wrong with feeding them the Fancy Feast
Your vet is wrong saying that the FF is the culprit raising her BG
If you decide to take it away and only feed the FF you have to do it slowly because it could drop the BG by 100 points. You will have to monitor closely
@feralcatmama

 

Hi there, thank you for your reply! The capsules I got says Methylcobalamin Vitamin B-12. Is that the correct type? I assumed it was with the "methyl" in it. I think it came off of amazon via my wish list as my facebook page members frequent that page to send us food and other supplies and since this was a new addition someone jumped right on it. I am grateful for it but I was paranoid about trying it since my last supplement with Skittles almost killed him. It was a completely different product, called Blood Sugar Gold, meant to help cats regulate their blood sugar and it did help his numbers come down but also severely affected his kidneys, heart and liver to the point that they were calcifying and the vet said one more dose of that likely would have caused irreversable damage. Oddly enough, a different vet in the same clinic approved it the week before and didn't see anything harmful in it but he did say to start slowly, half of the recommended dose and only once a day and even that proved to be too much. That's why I have been a bit hesitant to put Biscuits on the B-12 because I don't want a repeat of that scenario and sure don't need the vet bill that came with it.

You mentioned the Hills m/d as being high in carbs. I agree, after studying the food spreadsheet that was provided here, but the thing is, the cats love it and are grazers, all 3 of them. My Purrcey doesn't have diabetes (yet), but he's a chonky boy so I won't be surprised if he gets it at some point too. Biscuits and Skittles are his littermates and both of them got it so I'm wondering if it's hereditary. I know nothing about their father(s), but the mother was here for a short time. She was sick with rabies so we had to euthanize her back then, that was almost 12 years ago. There were 2 more kittens that were adopted out at the time, and I have no idea if they ever developed diabetes either. It's a mystery on how this happened as I have never fed them horrible foods. Friskies, Fancy Feast and for dry food they ate Cat Chow until the diabetes happened and now they eat the Hills. I know kibble is not good for them but getting them off of it is going to be so hard. Purrcey especially will be difficult to deal with as he loves his kibble. Skittles is a lot like him in that regard. He comes to tell me when the bowl is empty LOL. They are not picky about kibble, so I'm wondering if there is something less expensive that is not such a huge threat to the blood sugar that they can eat instead. I don't like paying $53 a bag for this stuff, especially knowing it's not good for them and not helping keep their sugar down.

As for the spreadsheet, I would love for someone to help with that. I have so little time to focus on things like that with my colony of 29 cats (6 of them kittens), and one of my cats is showing neurological issues that needs to be addressed asap. The mother of the kittens got spayed a week ago and had a few issues with her incision. The lady I live with is disabled and requires a lot of care 24/7 and now her husband is also sick and scheduled for surgery on the 21st, so I kinda have a full plate. I am also running another auction on my facebook page to raise funds for the colony of cats to get winter supplies and that takes up a lot of time as well. If someone can do the spreadsheet for me, that would help tremendously. What do I need to do for that? Please tell me what is needed and I will be happy to provide the info. Obviously the glucose meter readings with dates and times of course and I assume insulin dosages and times? What else? Thank you for offering to help with that, I truly appreciate it.
Have a blessed rest of your week. I'll get back in here as I can.

 

I am following your posts since I have a cat with a similar situation.
I see you don’t have a spreadsheet. What are your cats numbers like?

 

@feralcatmama
Hi I will tag Bhooma @Bandit's Mom to set up your spreadsheet, she will send you a private message look for it in your inbox up top
Thank you Bhooma
Oh about the Methyl B-12 what you got is fine and you can start off with the 2 capsules a day

 

@feralcatmama after Bhooma sets up your SS here is the link explaining how it works, you can always ask questions about it
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-use-the-spreadsheet.241653/

Also I see you said you are spending a lot of money having 2 diabetic cats
I see you are using the ALpha Trak pet meter, the strips must be costing you a fortune especially with 2 kitties, I suggested switching to a human meter in my post #5 above

 

Hi, Welcome to FDMB!
I can help set up your spreadsheet. Will send you a PM with the details I need. Look for it in the Inbox at the top right corner of this page.

 

The only Dry Carb Kibble are Young Again Zero, Dr. Elsey’s Cleanprotein (chicken flavour) and Wysong Epigen 90 are all 5% carbs or less. but they are expensive