New Member: Need Advice With Lantus Shooting & Dosing

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Lansry

Lansry

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My name is Mel, and my cat Felix was diagnosed in August 2024 and currently on Lantus treatment.

For more than 3 months, I held off home testing because he was still eating high carb dry food at the time. We have multiple cats at home with different health issues and dietary needs so I had to carefully plan on how to separate Felix from others and change his diet. I also felt I wasn't ready yet to do the testing so I took my time learning about it and diabetes management in general. Felix does go to the vet for glucose curves. His last glucose curve was December 16, and his numbers stayed in the 300s so his vet increased his dosage from 4 units to 5 units twice a day. To be honest, I was a little concerned with the dosage increase because we know that stress can also be a reason for the high numbers, and Felix really hates going to the vet (LOL), but since he was also eating high carb food at the time, I didn't bother to question his instruction and has been giving Felix 5 units twice a day since then.

Finally I felt I was ready to do the testing myself and yesterday I was successful in getting his glucose numbers using ReliOn Premier. At the same time, I changed his diet entirely to low carb food, both wet and dry. Now here comes my dilemma:

  1. Felix's AMPS this morning dropped down to 85 mg/dL (to my surprise!) so I decreased his dosage to 4 units and tested him again +1 (59), +2 (55) in which at this point I got worried that his number would go lower than 50 so I fed him a little of high carb dry food. Was I wrong in shooting him this morning? What should have I done in terms of shooting in my case when the PS numbers are in normal range?
  2. At +3 (71) and +6 (125) testing, his numbers went up again thankfully but should I give him the same 4 units later if his PMPS is between upper 120s and 200s? Or should I decrease his dosage to 3 units because overnight he had a BIG drop down? At the moment, I don't have syringes with half unit labels so I can only change the doses to 1 unit increments.
Sorry if this post turned out long but I really hope that someone can give me an advise on what to do. Thanks in advance!
 
Lansry said:
My name is Mel, and my cat Felix was diagnosed in August 2024 and currently on Lantus treatment.

For more than 3 months, I held off home testing because he was still eating high carb dry food at the time. We have multiple cats at home with different health issues and dietary needs so I had to carefully plan on how to separate Felix from others and change his diet. I also felt I wasn't ready yet to do the testing so I took my time learning about it and diabetes management in general. Felix does go to the vet for glucose curves. His last glucose curve was December 16, and his numbers stayed in the 300s so his vet increased his dosage from 4 units to 5 units twice a day. To be honest, I was a little concerned with the dosage increase because we know that stress can also be a reason for the high numbers, and Felix really hates going to the vet (LOL), but since he was also eating high carb food at the time, I didn't bother to question his instruction and has been giving Felix 5 units twice a day since then.

Finally I felt I was ready to do the testing myself and yesterday I was successful in getting his glucose numbers using ReliOn Premier. At the same time, I changed his diet entirely to low carb food, both wet and dry. Now here comes my dilemma:

  1. Felix's AMPS this morning dropped down to 85 mg/dL (to my surprise!) so I decreased his dosage to 4 units and tested him again +1 (59), +2 (55) in which at this point I got worried that his number would go lower than 50 so I fed him a little of high carb dry food. Was I wrong in shooting him this morning? What should have I done in terms of shooting in my case when the PS numbers are in normal range?
  2. At +3 (71) and +6 (125) testing, his numbers went up again thankfully but should I give him the same 4 units later if his PMPS is between upper 120s and 200s? Or should I decrease his dosage to 3 units because overnight he had a BIG drop down? At the moment, I don't have syringes with half unit labels so I can only change the doses to 1 unit increments.
Sorry if this post turned out long but I really hope that someone can give me an advise on what to do. Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
I Do not know what I am doing here because my cat takes ProZink, and I am not allowed to give dosing help. However, I have had a diabetic cat that takes Lantus. You need to go to the top of the Lantus forum and read the different articles on Lantus dosing, syringes and anything to do with this. I do not know for sure which 1 you need to read, but please read these and it will tell you what to do. I know you need help and that will help you. Please, do this for you and for your kittys sake. I am hoping you and Lansry have a safe and Merry Christmas.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I Do not know what I am doing here because my cat takes ProZink, and I am not allowed to give dosing help. However, I have had a diabetic cat that takes Lantus. You need to go to the top of the Lantus forum and read the different articles on Lantus dosing, syringes and anything to do with this. I do not know for sure which 1 you need to read, but please read these and it will tell you what to do. I know you need help and that will help you. Please, do this for you and for your kittys sake. I am hoping you and Lansry have a safe and Merry Christmas.
Click to expand...
I got the wrong cat's name, but it is all still the same.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I Do not know what I am doing here because my cat takes ProZink, and I am not allowed to give dosing help. However, I have had a diabetic cat that takes Lantus. You need to go to the top of the Lantus forum and read the different articles on Lantus dosing, syringes and anything to do with this. I do not know for sure which 1 you need to read, but please read these and it will tell you what to do. I know you need help and that will help you. Please, do this for you and for your kittys sake. I am hoping you and Lansry have a safe and Merry Christmas.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for responding. I have been poking around and found some helpful tips. It's Christmas Eve and I know everyone is celebrating so I understand if I don't get a reply fast. For now Felix's numbers are going up leading to his next shooting time so I can breathe a little. Merry Christmas to you too.
 
Lansry said:
Thank you very much for responding. I have been poking around and found some helpful tips. It's Christmas Eve and I know everyone is celebrating so I understand if I don't get a reply fast. For now Felix's numbers are going up leading to his next shooting time so I can breathe a little. Merry Christmas to you too.
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I will tag members that are familiar with Lantus and can help you with dosing, however, it is very important that you home test, especially before ever shot of insulin (AMPS/PMPS)
it is important for a diabetic cat to consume a diet between 0-10% carb , below there is Drs Food list where you can find many brands, the third column contains the % of carbs, you should not feed kibbles or dry food that contain between 20-30% carbs including treats, we are here to help you, any concern of yours is important, so ask, ask, and ask
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/


@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
 
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Lansry said:
My name is Mel, and my cat Felix was diagnosed in August 2024 and currently on Lantus treatment.


  1. Felix's AMPS this morning dropped down to 85 mg/dL (to my surprise!) so I decreased his dosage to 4 units and tested him again +1 (59), +2 (55) in which at this point I got worried that his number would go lower than 50 so I fed him a little of high carb dry food. Was I wrong in shooting him this morning? What should have I done in terms of shooting in my case when the PS numbers are in normal range?
  2. At +3 (71) and +6 (125) testing, his numbers went up again thankfully but should I give him the same 4 units later if his PMPS is between upper 120s and 200s? Or should I decrease his dosage to 3 units because overnight he had a BIG drop down? At the moment, I don't have syringes with half unit labels so I can only change the doses to 1 unit increments.
Click to expand...


General rule of thumb for newbies and those who don't have much data in their spreadsheets: never give any insulin if the PS is under 100. Some people feel that numbers under 150 is a no insulin number. The cat will be fine with a skipped insulin dose. Better to have a higher number at the next PS time than to risk a very low number mid-cycle and a possible hypo. If you're unsure, just skip.

You don't change the dose based on the PS. Keep the dose consistent regardless of the PS and only skip insulin if the PS is under 100 (or 150 if you want to err on the side of caution). Dose adjustments are based on a bg curve.

You can eyeball half units with your syringes. It won't be totally accurate, though. Somewhere between the whole unit marked lines is good enough. Definitely get some half unit marked insulin syringes and keep the whole unit ones for whenever your cat needs a whole dose.

Can you not feed any dry? Even low carb dry can keep blood glucose levels high for some carb sensitive cats. I know with multiple cats that can be hard. Can you feed the diabetic separately from the others and not leave any dry food out for snacking? You can leave low carb canned food out for all the cats to snack on if hungry.

Lantus users might be sparse over the next few days so have patience. Read the stickies at the top of the Lantus page for now: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
 
@Teresa & KitKat - Lantus dosing is not based on weight with the exception of the starting dose of Lantus IF you are following the Tight Regulation Protocol. None of the dosing methods here are based on a cat's weight.

I would be very cautious about dose given that you changed Felix's diet to low carb food. You've already seen a marked response. There's a good chance that Felix's blood glucose numbers will reflect a bounce given that he dropped considerably lower than what you've seen. We regard a "bounce" as how a cat's liver and pancreas react when numbers drop low, drop fast or simply drop into a range that you're cat is no longer used to spending time in. The liver and pancreas release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones that cause numbers to spike upward. Don't be surprised if you see higher numbers for several cycles. You PMPS this evening is a good example of a bounce.

In general, we start cats that are new to diabetes management either at a dose of 0.5u (for the Start Low Go Slow -- SLGS -- method) or at a dose of 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms. This usually is in the range of 1.0u and this formula is used if you opt to follow Tight Regulation (TR). The two dosing methods are described in this post. I'm not suggesting that you drop Felix's dose back this much. However, I strongly suspect that 4.0u is way too much insulin given the change to a low carb diet. I'm thinking that you may want to drop the dose back to 2.0u at most. It will be easier on your nerves if Felix's numbers are a bit higher than desirable than too low.

In addition to reducing the dose, you will need to monitor carefully. Lantus typically does not start working for about 2 hours after you give a shot. It reaches its lowest point at about mid-cycle -- 6 hours after a shot. This is a "typical" cycle but many cats do not follow the rules. You will want to test immediately before giving your cat his meal at shot time. (Do not feed Felix within 2 hours prior to shot time.) You will also want to test around the middle of the cycle. I'd also suggest getting a test at around 2 or 3 hours after you give Lantus. For the PM cycle, it's helpful to do the same providing the mid-cycle test isn't in the middle of the night.

The dilemma with Felix is that the high carb food was balancing out the dose of insulin. Now that you've reduced the carbs, it's looking like he needs less insulin. We just don't know where that balance is.

Please let us know if you have questions. We're here to help.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
@Teresa & KitKat - Lantus dosing is not based on weight with the exception of the starting dose of Lantus IF you are following the Tight Regulation Protocol. None of the dosing methods here are based on a cat's weight.

I would be very cautious about dose given that you changed Felix's diet to low carb food. You've already seen a marked response. There's a good chance that Felix's blood glucose numbers will reflect a bounce given that he dropped considerably lower than what you've seen. We regard a "bounce" as how a cat's liver and pancreas react when numbers drop low, drop fast or simply drop into a range that you're cat is no longer used to spending time in. The liver and pancreas release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones that cause numbers to spike upward. Don't be surprised if you see higher numbers for several cycles. You PMPS this evening is a good example of a bounce.

In general, we start cats that are new to diabetes management either at a dose of 0.5u (for the Start Low Go Slow -- SLGS -- method) or at a dose of 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms. This usually is in the range of 1.0u and this formula is used if you opt to follow Tight Regulation (TR). The two dosing methods are described in this post. I'm not suggesting that you drop Felix's dose back this much. However, I strongly suspect that 4.0u is way too much insulin given the change to a low carb diet. I'm thinking that you may want to drop the dose back to 2.0u at most. It will be easier on your nerves if Felix's numbers are a bit higher than desirable than too low.

In addition to reducing the dose, you will need to monitor carefully. Lantus typically does not start working for about 2 hours after you give a shot. It reaches its lowest point at about mid-cycle -- 6 hours after a shot. This is a "typical" cycle but many cats do not follow the rules. You will want to test immediately before giving your cat his meal at shot time. (Do not feed Felix within 2 hours prior to shot time.) You will also want to test around the middle of the cycle. I'd also suggest getting a test at around 2 or 3 hours after you give Lantus. For the PM cycle, it's helpful to do the same providing the mid-cycle test isn't in the middle of the night.

The dilemma with Felix is that the high carb food was balancing out the dose of insulin. Now that you've reduced the carbs, it's looking like he needs less insulin. We just don't know where that balance is.

Please let us know if you have questions. We're here to help.
Click to expand...
@Lansry, Make sure you read what was posted By Sienne & Gabby (above).
 
squeem3 said:
General rule of thumb for newbies and those who don't have much data in their spreadsheets: never give any insulin if the PS is under 100. Some people feel that numbers under 150 is a no insulin number. The cat will be fine with a skipped insulin dose. Better to have a higher number at the next PS time than to risk a very low number mid-cycle and a possible hypo. If you're unsure, just skip.

You don't change the dose based on the PS. Keep the dose consistent regardless of the PS and only skip insulin if the PS is under 100 (or 150 if you want to err on the side of caution). Dose adjustments are based on a bg curve.

You can eyeball half units with your syringes. It won't be totally accurate, though. Somewhere between the whole unit marked lines is good enough. Definitely get some half unit marked insulin syringes and keep the whole unit ones for whenever your cat needs a whole dose.

Can you not feed any dry? Even low carb dry can keep blood glucose levels high for some carb sensitive cats. I know with multiple cats that can be hard. Can you feed the diabetic separately from the others and not leave any dry food out for snacking? You can leave low carb canned food out for all the cats to snack on if hungry.

Lantus users might be sparse over the next few days so have patience. Read the stickies at the top of the Lantus page for now: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for responding. I am planning to switch him to all wet food overtime but I guess I am just transitioning him slowly because he is used to having dry food since he was young (he's 6 now). He actually eats more Fancy Feast wet food now and the dry food I am giving him is Dr. Elsey's, which I believe has about 4% carb (?).

The insulin that the vet prescribed us is Lantus Solostar Pen so it's impossible to get a half unit with it but I will definitely buy half unit marked syringes.

His PMPS went up to 327 so I put him back to the original dosage (5 units). If tomorrow morning he gets under 100 PS, I will skip and monitor.
 
Welcome Mel! Sienne laid out some nice advice for you.

My guy hates the vet too so I can relate there… we also switched recently from dry food (Elsey’s) to LC wet food, and did see a noticeable shift down in the numbers just from food.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
@Teresa & KitKat - Lantus dosing is not based on weight with the exception of the starting dose of Lantus IF you are following the Tight Regulation Protocol. None of the dosing methods here are based on a cat's weight.

I would be very cautious about dose given that you changed Felix's diet to low carb food. You've already seen a marked response. There's a good chance that Felix's blood glucose numbers will reflect a bounce given that he dropped considerably lower than what you've seen. We regard a "bounce" as how a cat's liver and pancreas react when numbers drop low, drop fast or simply drop into a range that you're cat is no longer used to spending time in. The liver and pancreas release a stored form of glucose along with counterregulatory hormones that cause numbers to spike upward. Don't be surprised if you see higher numbers for several cycles. You PMPS this evening is a good example of a bounce.

In general, we start cats that are new to diabetes management either at a dose of 0.5u (for the Start Low Go Slow -- SLGS -- method) or at a dose of 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms. This usually is in the range of 1.0u and this formula is used if you opt to follow Tight Regulation (TR). The two dosing methods are described in this post. I'm not suggesting that you drop Felix's dose back this much. However, I strongly suspect that 4.0u is way too much insulin given the change to a low carb diet. I'm thinking that you may want to drop the dose back to 2.0u at most. It will be easier on your nerves if Felix's numbers are a bit higher than desirable than too low.

In addition to reducing the dose, you will need to monitor carefully. Lantus typically does not start working for about 2 hours after you give a shot. It reaches its lowest point at about mid-cycle -- 6 hours after a shot. This is a "typical" cycle but many cats do not follow the rules. You will want to test immediately before giving your cat his meal at shot time. (Do not feed Felix within 2 hours prior to shot time.) You will also want to test around the middle of the cycle. I'd also suggest getting a test at around 2 or 3 hours after you give Lantus. For the PM cycle, it's helpful to do the same providing the mid-cycle test isn't in the middle of the night.

The dilemma with Felix is that the high carb food was balancing out the dose of insulin. Now that you've reduced the carbs, it's looking like he needs less insulin. We just don't know where that balance is.

Please let us know if you have questions. We're here to help.
Click to expand...

Ok, I need to breathe and not panic. I did put him back on 5 units when I saw his PMPS is 327. So is it safe to jump down the dosage to 2 units tomorrow, or should I lower the dose 1 unit at a time while monitoring his levels? I will get the half unit marked syringes but for now I can only change his dose to 1 unit increments.
 
Your spreadsheet says you gave 5 units tonight. Is that correct? That dose has proven he to be too much insulin. You will need to monitor him closely tonight. I'd start with a test 2-3 hours after the shot.

We determine how to change the dose based on how low the dose takes the cat, not the preshot value.

Given how busy all of us (including you) may be during the holiday, I agree with dropping the dose. But first a question, do you know if he tested positive for ketones, or the vet mentioned DKA at all when he was diagnosed?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Your spreadsheet says you gave 5 units tonight. Is that correct? That dose has proven he to be too much insulin. You will need to monitor him closely tonight. I'd start with a test 2-3 hours after the shot.

We determine how to change the dose based on how low the dose takes the cat, not the preshot value.

Given how busy all of us (including you) may be during the holiday, I agree with dropping the dose. But first a question, do you know if he tested positive for ketones, or the vet mentioned DKA at all when he was diagnosed?
Click to expand...

Yes, I did give him 5 units :(. I will monitor him. For ketones, Felix tested negative for ketones when he was diagnosed.
 
Good morning and Merry Christmas everyone. Last night was a stressful night for me. I felt so bad for my mistake giving Felix 5 units at his PM shot :banghead:. I tested him at +2 and I meant to test him at +6 but I couldn't stay up that late so instead I tested him at +5. Thankfully, Felix didn't get a big drop and went to bed feeling a little better. This morning he got 174 with his AMPS and put him back to 2 units. His next glucose curve appointment is on December 30 so I am gonna stick to 2 units until then unless something changes. I really THANK you all for your advise :bighug:.
 
Mel - you didn't make a mistake and no harm, other than your not getting enough sleep, was done. The bounce gave you some bandwidth. Keep in mind that the Lantus dose can build on itself. Right now, you're in data gathering mode so you're able to understand how Lantus works for your cat. One of our more popular comments is "ECID" -- every cat is different.

Please take a look at the dosing information I linked above. Because Felix is still getting dry food, you will want to use the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) dosing method. (You can't use TR if dry food is still in the picture.) I'm mentioning the dosing method because there are parameters for both reducing and increasing the dose. If Felix's blood glucose numbers drop below 90, you reduce the dose by 0.25u.

You are going to need to get syringes. You are correct in that the pens do not dispense insulin in less than 1.0u amounts. That may be fine for humans but it is too big of an increment for a cat. In addition, you need to prime the pen every time you need to give a dose. As a result, you are wasting insulin. You can purchase syringes from Amazon without a prescription. You want U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings.
 
Lansry said:
Thank you very much for responding. I am planning to switch him to all wet food overtime but I guess I am just transitioning him slowly because he is used to having dry food since he was young (he's 6 now). He actually eats more Fancy Feast wet food now and the dry food I am giving him is Dr. Elsey's, which I believe has about 4% carb (?).

The insulin that the vet prescribed us is Lantus Solostar Pen so it's impossible to get a half unit with it but I will definitely buy half unit marked syringes.

His PMPS went up to 327 so I put him back to the original dosage (5 units). If tomorrow morning he gets under 100 PS, I will skip and monitor.
Click to expand...


You don't use the insulin pen the way a a Human diabetic does. Use an insulin syringe to draw out the insulin from the rubber tip at the end of the pen. There are pictures here on how to use insulin syringes with any pen: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/

Fancy Feast is good. Later on you can try other low carb brands that are available in larger sized cans so all the cats can share.

Wendy and Sienne have given you good advice :) They're both long time members who have helped many members over the years. Always keep your vet in the loop on what's going on with your cat and the dose and food. Some vets aren't great at managing diabetes so if you feel you need a new vet, the board can help.
 
Lansry said:
Ok, I need to breathe and not panic. I did put him back on 5 units when I saw his PMPS is 327. So is it safe to jump down the dosage to 2 units tomorrow, or should I lower the dose 1 unit at a time while monitoring his levels? I will get the half unit marked syringes but for now I can only change his dose to 1 unit increments.
Click to expand...

I was recommended to step back, breath in and breath out, that cats are very sensitive to stress, so we stress, they feel it too!:bighug::cat::cat::D
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Mel - you didn't make a mistake and no harm, other than your not getting enough sleep, was done. The bounce gave you some bandwidth. Keep in mind that the Lantus dose can build on itself. Right now, you're in data gathering mode so you're able to understand how Lantus works for your cat. One of our more popular comments is "ECID" -- every cat is different.

Please take a look at the dosing information I linked above. Because Felix is still getting dry food, you will want to use the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) dosing method. (You can't use TR if dry food is still in the picture.) I'm mentioning the dosing method because there are parameters for both reducing and increasing the dose. If Felix's blood glucose numbers drop below 90, you reduce the dose by 0.25u.

You are going to need to get syringes. You are correct in that the pens do not dispense insulin in less than 1.0u amounts. That may be fine for humans but it is too big of an increment for a cat. In addition, you need to prime the pen every time you need to give a dose. As a result, you are wasting insulin. You can purchase syringes from Amazon without a prescription. You want U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings.
Click to expand...

Felix's number dropped below 90 again at +2 and has been going back up after that, same pattern as yesterday. Does this mean I should decrease his dose at PM, assuming his number is high enough at PMPS? (Sorry if I'm being repetitive). I did find the syringes you suggested at Amazon and ordered it but it won't arrive til Saturday so I will have to decrease his dose to 1 if needed.
 
squeem3 said:
You don't use the insulin pen the way a a Human diabetic does. Use an insulin syringe to draw out the insulin from the rubber tip at the end of the pen. There are pictures here on how to use insulin syringes with any pen: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/

Fancy Feast is good. Later on you can try other low carb brands that are available in larger sized cans so all the cats can share.

Wendy and Sienne have given you good advice :) They're both long time members who have helped many members over the years. Always keep your vet in the loop on what's going on with your cat and the dose and food. Some vets aren't great at managing diabetes so if you feel you need a new vet, the board can help.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the link. I was actually thinking about how to use syringes with pen this morning, then I saw this message (LOL). This has been really helpful. I do plan to talk to my vet next Monday because Felix has to go for his glucose curve. I just hope that he would be open minded with me using a human meter and not a pet one because last time I mentioned about home testing to him he pointed out that I will get inaccurate reading. He also insisted in doing glucose curves at the vet and not at home. But we'll see on Monday what he will say.
 
Lansry said:
Thank you for the link. I was actually thinking about how to use syringes with pen this morning, then I saw this message (LOL). This has been really helpful. I do plan to talk to my vet next Monday because Felix has to go for his glucose curve. I just hope that he would be open minded with me using a human meter and not a pet one because last time I mentioned about home testing to him he pointed out that I will get inaccurate reading. He also insisted in doing glucose curves at the vet and not at home. But we'll see on Monday what he will say.
Click to expand...
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)
@squeem3
Lansry, Considering decreasing dose to 1u you might have advise for her?:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
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squeem3 said:
There are many published articles in veterinary journals that support home testing and compare pet meter vs a Human meter and home curves vs office curves. You can share these with the vet. https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...ournal-of-feline-medicine-and-surgery.286543/
Click to expand...
For me and my Corky, nothing like home testing!! and human Meter ReliOn Premier Classic, no Vet bills, not putting
him thru stress, and I always know his BG!! is a game changer!! And Corky is Happy!!:D:joyful::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
I would suggest calling a local pharmacy and see if they will sell you enough syringes to last until your Amazon order is delivered. Explain the issue with the pen. Also, do not be surprised if they tell you that you can't use a syringe with the pen. It's a lack of knowledge on their part. Show them how you can insert the pen into the rubber gasket at the same place where the needle tip is screwed on. You use the pen as a mini-vial.

If the vet gives. you a hard time about a human meter, the original research on the Tight Regulation Protocol with Lantus and Levemir was done both with a pet specific meter AND with a human meter (see the Roomp & Rand 2009 article). Pet meters were not all that popular until the last several years when the meter manufacturers realized they could make buckets of money selling a pet meter and encouraging vets to promote the use of those meters with diabetic animals. If your vet has been in practice for 20 years, I'd ask how they measured blood glucose. Vets were using human meters unless they were sending samples out to a lab. The lab values you get when blood is sent out is from a serum chemistry analyzer. However, recent articles on managing diabetes encourage home testing and note that values from a curve at the vet's office frequently reflect stress hyperglycemia -- Felix's numbers will be artificially inflated due to the stress of being at the vet's office. The result is that vets will raise a cat's dose only for the owner to find out that their cat's numbers drop quite low once the cat is back in his normal environment where there is less/no stress to inflate the numbers. This is an article from the American Animal Hospital Assn on diabetes management and they note that especially for cats, home testing is encouraged (see p. 10). They also recommend the use of a pet-specific meter. I'd point out to your vet that the cost for AlphaTrack strips is $10.. each. The cost for strips for a Relion meter is $0.17 each. These costs mount up. The difference at low numbers is relatively small with the human meter running lower than the AlphaTrack. It's not so much that one meter is inaccurate. They use a different form of measurement. One sneaky alternative is to get a curve at home with the AlphaTrack and send it to your vet. The rest of the time, use a human meter so you're not breaking the bank with the cost for strips.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
I would suggest calling a local pharmacy and see if they will sell you enough syringes to last until your Amazon order is delivered. Explain the issue with the pen. Also, do not be surprised if they tell you that you can't use a syringe with the pen. It's a lack of knowledge on their part. Show them how you can insert the pen into the rubber gasket at the same place where the needle tip is screwed on. You use the pen as a mini-vial.

If the vet gives. you a hard time about a human meter, the original research on the Tight Regulation Protocol with Lantus and Levemir was done both with a pet specific meter AND with a human meter (see the Roomp & Rand 2009 article). Pet meters were not all that popular until the last several years when the meter manufacturers realized they could make buckets of money selling a pet meter and encouraging vets to promote the use of those meters with diabetic animals. If your vet has been in practice for 20 years, I'd ask how they measured blood glucose. Vets were using human meters unless they were sending samples out to a lab. The lab values you get when blood is sent out is from a serum chemistry analyzer. However, recent articles on managing diabetes encourage home testing and note that values from a curve at the vet's office frequently reflect stress hyperglycemia -- Felix's numbers will be artificially inflated due to the stress of being at the vet's office. The result is that vets will raise a cat's dose only for the owner to find out that their cat's numbers drop quite low once the cat is back in his normal environment where there is less/no stress to inflate the numbers. This is an article from the American Animal Hospital Assn on diabetes management and they note that especially for cats, home testing is encouraged (see p. 10). They also recommend the use of a pet-specific meter. I'd point out to your vet that the cost for AlphaTrack strips is $10.. each. The cost for strips for a Relion meter is $0.17 each. These costs mount up. The difference at low numbers is relatively small with the human meter running lower than the AlphaTrack. It's not so much that one meter is inaccurate. They use a different form of measurement. One sneaky alternative is to get a curve at home with the AlphaTrack and send it to your vet. The rest of the time, use a human meter so you're not breaking the bank with the cost for strips.
Click to expand...
My 1st diabetic cat Buddy went to his vet for a curve, when he got home it was getting close to meal time. I had never ran a test on him and it was with a human meter, he ran from me I had to chase him all over the house, he got behind the furniture. By the time I got him, I had a mess. But, the real mess was when I ran a test, his BG was 20. If I had given him a shot without testing he would have had died. I would never give a dose of insulin without testing first. That went for Buddy and now KitKat.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
My 1st diabetic cat Buddy went to his vet for a curve, when he got home it was getting close to meal time. I had never ran a test on him and it was with a human meter, he ran from me I had to chase him all over the house, he got behind the furniture. By the time I got him, I had a mess. But, the real mess was when I ran a test, his BG was 20. If I had given him a shot without testing he would have had died. I would never give a dose of insulin without testing first. That went for Buddy and now KitKat.
Click to expand...
Teresa & KitKat said:
My 1st diabetic cat Buddy went to his vet for a curve, when he got home it was getting close to meal time. I had never ran a test on him and it was with a human meter, he ran from me I had to chase him all over the house, he got behind the furniture. By the time I got him, I had a mess. But, the real mess was when I ran a test, his BG was 20. If I had given him a shot without testing he would have had died. I would never give a dose of insulin without testing first. That went for Buddy and now KitKat.
Click to expand...
You got it right on!!!!!:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
If your vet office is open tomorrow, see if you can get a written prescription for U100 3/10 cc insulin syringes with half unit markings. Then take the prescription to any pharmacy to fill. WalMart's Relion brand is fairly inexpensive and what many people here use. There are other brands available. Ask the pharmacist what the cost is. Some brands are pretty expensive. For future orders, most people buy insulin syringes online from various places. Amazon is one place, (Human) diabetic supply web sites, even Chewy. A prescription may or may not be needed depending on the website and your state law.

There was at one point a thread on where to buy supplies for less. You can start a new thread to ask.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
If the vet gives. you a hard time about a human meter, the original research on the Tight Regulation Protocol with Lantus and Levemir was done both with a pet specific meter AND with a human meter (see the Roomp & Rand 2009 article). Pet meters were not all that popular until the last several years when the meter manufacturers realized they could make buckets of money selling a pet meter and encouraging vets to promote the use of those meters with diabetic animals. If your vet has been in practice for 20 years, I'd ask how they measured blood glucose. Vets were using human meters unless they were sending samples out to a lab. The lab values you get when blood is sent out is from a serum chemistry analyzer. However, recent articles on managing diabetes encourage home testing and note that values from a curve at the vet's office frequently reflect stress hyperglycemia -- Felix's numbers will be artificially inflated due to the stress of being at the vet's office. The result is that vets will raise a cat's dose only for the owner to find out that their cat's numbers drop quite low once the cat is back in his normal environment where there is less/no stress to inflate the numbers. This is an article from the American Animal Hospital Assn on diabetes management and they note that especially for cats, home testing is encouraged (see p. 10). They also recommend the use of a pet-specific meter. I'd point out to your vet that the cost for AlphaTrack strips is $10.. each. The cost for strips for a Relion meter is $0.17 each. These costs mount up. The difference at low numbers is relatively small with the human meter running lower than the AlphaTrack. It's not so much that one meter is inaccurate. They use a different form of measurement. One sneaky alternative is to get a curve at home with the AlphaTrack and send it to your vet. The rest of the time, use a human meter so you're not breaking the bank with the cost for strips.
Click to expand...

The vet is actually young and new. I think he started working at the clinic beginning of this year or maybe last year. I wouldn't be surprised if I discovered that Felix is his first diabetic patient (LOL). I did think of using pet meter at first but when I saw the price it will cost me in the long term, I backed down. I don't mind taking Felix to the vet for glucose curves and follow his prescribed dosages but if I didn't start home testing when I changed Felix's diet and continued the 5 unit dosages blindly, I could have killed him! Yes, the process is overwhelming and stressful, especially in the learning stages, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
My 1st diabetic cat Buddy went to his vet for a curve, when he got home it was getting close to meal time. I had never ran a test on him and it was with a human meter, he ran from me I had to chase him all over the house, he got behind the furniture. By the time I got him, I had a mess. But, the real mess was when I ran a test, his BG was 20. If I had given him a shot without testing he would have had died. I would never give a dose of insulin without testing first. That went for Buddy and now KitKat.
Click to expand...

That's pretty scary! This is why I also want to test Felix myself.
 
Lansry said:
The vet is actually young and new. I think he started working at the clinic beginning of this year or maybe last year. I wouldn't be surprised if I discovered that Felix is his first diabetic patient (LOL). I did think of using pet meter at first but when I saw the price it will cost me in the long term, I backed down. I don't mind taking Felix to the vet for glucose curves and follow his prescribed dosages but if I didn't start home testing when I changed Felix's diet and continued the 5 unit dosages blindly, I could have killed him! Yes, the process is overwhelming and stressful, especially in the learning stages, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should ask him if he knowledgeable in Feline diabetes, in many instances, even experienced Vets, treat FD as it were a dog, and is not the same, and it is stressful and overwhelming at first, I know we were all in your shoes, but you know your cat better than anyone, and you have this Forum, trust your instincts is the best medicine!!:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
CORKY said:
Perhaps you should ask him if he knowledgeable in Feline diabetes, in many instances, even experienced Vets, treat FD as it were a dog, and is not the same, and it is stressful and overwhelming at first, I know we were all in your shoes, but you know your cat better than anyone, and you have this Forum, trust your instincts is the best medicine!!:bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
Click to expand...

Yes, I am so thankful that I have found this forum. You all give me confidence that I can do this.
 
squeem3 said:
If your vet office is open tomorrow, see if you can get a written prescription for U100 3/10 cc insulin syringes with half unit markings. Then take the prescription to any pharmacy to fill. WalMart's Relion brand is fairly inexpensive and what many people here use. There are other brands available. Ask the pharmacist what the cost is. Some brands are pretty expensive. For future orders, most people buy insulin syringes online from various places. Amazon is one place, (Human) diabetic supply web sites, even Chewy. A prescription may or may not be needed depending on the website and your state law.

There was at one point a thread on where to buy supplies for less. You can start a new thread to ask.
Click to expand...
I buy syringes at Walmart for myself with no prescription, they ask what they are for and that is all. I ordered U40 With a 1/2 unit mark from CarePoint VET with no prescription. As a matter of fact, I have never needed a prescription for syringes and i give myself 1 shot a week.
 
Teresa & KitKat said:
I buy syringes at Walmart for myself with no prescription, they ask what they are for and that is all. I ordered U40 With a 1/2 unit mark from CarePoint VET with no prescription. As a matter of fact, I have never needed a prescription for syringes and i give myself 1 shot a week.
Click to expand...
I believe this is the one Teresa is referring to

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@Lansry
Hi Mel
Also, if you live in the US and have a Walmart, you can get U100 insulin syringes with half unit marks for $12.58/100.

Either of these 2 boxes are the ones you want (with a purple stripe). You have to go into the store , can't buy them on line
upload_2024-4-22_23-37-23-jpeg.69946





This was posted by a member and copied it for you
If you're going to Walmart, ask for Relion 3/10ml, 31 or 30 gauge insulin syringes. (Don't mention half unit marks because this tends to confuse them and they think you don't know what you want and will try to convince you that you need 1/2ml syringes---you DON'T)

ALL of the 3/10ml Relion syringes at Walmart have half unit marks. Trust me on this. You will want one of these boxes of syringes (the difference is the needle length...blue box are shorter needles than white box but both work fine). As long as the box has the purple stripe, they are the correct syringes.


Can you please add SLGS to your signature and spreadsheet up top since you are feeding any dry food.
In the future I would do the 12 hour curves at home . My vet didn't care if I used a human meter at all. You can tell your vet you can't afford the price of the strips for a pet meter
Even though my Tyler has passed from cancer if it wasn't for me taking the advice from the experienced members here I know Tyler would have never been in remission for 3 years and 4 months.
You couldn't have found a better group to join

You can read about the dosing methods here
They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed , so read about SLGS

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/


I would read all the yellow stickys here about Lantus
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
 
Last edited:
Teresa & KitKat said:
I buy syringes at Walmart for myself with no prescription, they ask what they are for and that is all. I ordered U40 With a 1/2 unit mark from CarePoint VET with no prescription. As a matter of fact, I have never needed a prescription for syringes and i give myself 1 shot a week.
Click to expand...


It depends on individual US state law. Some states require prescription to buy insulin syringes from a store pharmacy. OP should check with both a local pharmacy and the vet's office and get a written prescription if needed.

This is why many people in the US prefer to buy insulin syringes online. No prescription is required although I think Chewy does ask for the vet's phone number or a faxed prescription for confirmation.

There's a better picture of syringe markings in this Lantus sticky: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/

There are many brands of U100 insulin syringes that can be used. It's really just preference and what works best for you. Some brands are expensive so that's why many choose an inexpensive brand that costs no more than $15 a box or so. I have tried several brands of syringes with 2 diabetics and have found that only BD works the best with Lantus. No sticky stubborn bubbles, no insulin leaking out of the needle tip, consistent syringe line markings. Of course only something expensive works for my cat :rolleyes::p
 
squeem3 said:
It depends on individual US state law. Some states require prescription to buy insulin syringes from a store pharmacy. OP should check with both a local pharmacy and the vet's office and get a written prescription if needed.

This is why many people in the US prefer to buy insulin syringes online. No prescription is required although I think Chewy does ask for the vet's phone number or a faxed prescription for confirmation.

There's a better picture of syringe markings in this Lantus sticky: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...info-proper-handling-drawing-fine-dosing.151/

There are many brands of U100 insulin syringes that can be used. It's really just preference and what works best for you. Some brands are expensive so that's why many choose an inexpensive brand that costs no more than $15 a box or so. I have tried several brands of syringes with 2 diabetics and have found that only BD works the best with Lantus. No sticky stubborn bubbles, no insulin leaking out of the needle tip, consistent syringe line markings. Of course only something expensive works for my cat :rolleyes::p
Click to expand...

You might want to search with www.Allisonmedical.com look for where to buy in your area, their the CarePoint.VET syringes u-40 3/10cc 29G x1/2" half unit markings, these are the syringes I have used since Corky was diagnosed, they are very convenient to increase and reduce by .25 if needed they cannot be too expensive, the DCIN supplies me with them, you can also go on the MAIN FORUM, SUPPLY CLOSET, every now and then, members give free supplies, or ask for postage for them, I have used them as well, and no prescription needed:bighug::cat::cat:

here is a member giving away ProZinc and syringes, you do not need the ProZinc since you use Lantus , but you can take the syringes, she only ask to cover postage
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-and-syringes.296536/
 
Last edited:
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
@Lansry
Hi Mel
Also, if you live in the US and have a Walmart, you can get U100 insulin syringes with half unit marks for $12.58/100.

Either of these 2 boxes are the ones you want (with a purple stripe). You have to go into the store , can't buy them on line
upload_2024-4-22_23-37-23-jpeg.69946





This was posted by a member and copied it for you
If you're going to Walmart, ask for Relion 3/10ml, 31 or 30 gauge insulin syringes. (Don't mention half unit marks because this tends to confuse them and they think you don't know what you want and will try to convince you that you need 1/2ml syringes---you DON'T)

ALL of the 3/10ml Relion syringes at Walmart have half unit marks. Trust me on this. You will want one of these boxes of syringes (the difference is the needle length...blue box are shorter needles than white box but both work fine). As long as the box has the purple stripe, they are the correct syringes.


Can you please add SLGS to your signature and spreadsheet up top since you are feeding any dry food.
In the future I would do the 12 hour curves at home . My vet didn't care if I used a human meter at all. You can tell your vet you can't afford the price of the strips for a pet meter
Even though my Tyler has passed from cancer if it wasn't for me taking the advice from the experienced members here I know Tyler would have never been in remission for 3 years and 4 months.
You couldn't have found a better group to join

You can read about the dosing methods here
They will tell you when an increase or decrease is needed , so read about SLGS

https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/


I would read all the yellow stickys here about Lantus
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-levemir-biosimilars.9/
Click to expand...

Thank you for this! At the moment I am liking the ReliOn brand so this is good thing to know. Also I did the changes on my signature and spreadsheet so thanks for reminding me!
 
Lansry said:
@Sienne and Gabby (GA) Thank you for pointing this out but I have a question about the 'bouncing' that you mentioned. When does it usually go away?
Click to expand...
I can tell you what bouncing means , I copied this from what one of our members said and when it might clear

  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
@Lansry
 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA said:
I can tell you what bouncing means , I copied this from what one of our members said and when it might clear

  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
@Lansry
Click to expand...

Thank you @Diane Tyler's Mom GA :bighug:. So I should expect it to go away soon. Cool!
 
In general, bounces can last up to 3 days. As your cat gets more comfortable with spending an increasing amount of time in more normal numbers, the bounces are less frequent and are shorter. However, that's a theoretical statement. Cats hate to be predictable and not all cats follow the rules. Some cats are just bouncers. Other cats, bounce for the equivalent of 5 minutes in cat years and are done with it. There's no way to know. The worst part of bouncing is that it frustrates us. No one wants to see their cat in high numbers. It is a form of protecting your cat from low numbers so at least there's something positive to say about a bounce!
 
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