New Member- Puddy: Newly diagnosed; did not do well on glucose curve yesterday

Hi there. New Member here. I want to thank everyone on this forum already; it's been extremely helpful & I am hopeful that perhaps we can get on track with the assistance of this community.

Exactly two weeks ago my Pudd was given his diabetes diagnosis (I brought him in because he seemed excessively thirsty- every time I turned around he was at the sink with me, which is not his usual behavior). Knowing what I know now, I would have handled this differently, but I did exactly as the vet instructed:

We switched food immediately-
Royal Canine Glycobalance 1/3 C dry & half can wet.
I space these twelve hour apart.
I was instructed to give 4 U of Prozinc at each feeding.
Removed all treats & extra food. He gets nothing but this (whereas before he had more dry & wet food & lots of greenies.)

Background: Puddy is a big boy (large cat regardless) with a low metabolism (I've tried to help him lose weight for years to no avail. He's quite picky & actively seems to prefer junk food.) He is 8 yeras old and he's currently 20 lbs but the vet thinks he should be closer to 15. The vet has justified the dose of insulin based on the cat's size, but it still seems extreme to me.

I took him in yesterday for his glucose curve test. He didn't get below 400 all day long. She suggested bumping up to 5.5 U which I refused to do. We settled on 5 U but I'm still concerned it's a lot. I haven't liked the way he's been acting since on insulin, seems more lethargic than ever. Anyway, I'm sure he was extremely stressed at the vet, which I feel influenced his numbers. I want to start home testing even though the vet did not encourage this; I also am looking for a new vet. I feel overwhelmed about ketones & insulin & diet & so many other variables. I'm really concerned about this sweet boy. Why would his numbers still be so high given the rapid diet change and prescribed insulin doses? I've been trying to follow everything to a T. Not sure what to do now.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so very much.

 

Welcome Steph, Puddy is so adorable! I know it's overwhelming but we are all here to help you, in no time you will be a pro at testing. If it wasn't for the members here Tyler would not be in remission. I have to say they know more than most vets do
We have a lit of experienced and knowledgeable members here
I am not a Prozinc user but I will tag a few members that are ,for now
That does seem like a high dose to start with, let's see what others say

The dry food is probably high carbs, most if us feed Fancy Feast Classic Pates or Friskies Pate, no need for prescription food
I will post the food chart in a minute, we like to stay under 10 % carbs
The FF Pates are either 2 or 3 %
What was Puddy eating before his diagnosis?

You definitely want to start home testing, it's the only way to keep Puddy safe, you want to see how the insulin is working and how low it's dropping him
We always test AMPS ( AM Pre/Shot) to see if the number is safe to shoot
Same with PMPS ( PM Pre/Shot)
Then we test multiple times during each 12 hour cycle
Get a test in around +3 ( 3 hours after giving insulin) then maybe +6 ( 6 hours after giving insulin)
Same goes for the PM cycle
Like/I said I'm not a prozinc user but I have seen with Prozinc they can drop lower around +7, +8 or +9
You want to scatter the times around when you test

We feed the larger meals in the morning and at night when you give them the insulin
Then feed smaller meals during the cycles ,maybe around +3 and +6

You want to withhold all food 2 hours prior to testing his AMPS and PMPS so it's not food influenced, , you don't have to pick up the food while giving the smaller meals

A lot of member feed freeze dried treats for treats

About meters
Most of us use human meters ,that's what our numbers are based on, plus the test strips are much more affordable than pet strips
Most of us use The Relion Prime from Walmart. 9 dollars
17.88 for 100 test strips
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets any brand will do
Cotton rounds to put behind Puddys ear
Plus you can always run to Walmart and pick up more test strips
With pet meters such as the Alpha Trak which most vets use you need to order the strips from the internet, plus they are about 54.00 dollars for 50 strips

Just tell the vets you can't afford them

You need to fill out your signature it's at the end of everyone's posts in gray, info about Puddy

 

For your signature

Go all the way up top to you name tap on it and a drop box will appear , you will see the word signature, tap that and just add all your information about baby girl and hit save.
If you are still having trouble setting things up we can have someone help you just ask
Take a look at my signature all about Tyler all signatures are at the end of everyone's posts in gray

Add info we need to help you:

• Caregiver & kitty's name
• DX: Date
• Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
• Name of your meter
• Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
• Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
• DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
• Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
• Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of yoursignature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.

 

We also use a spreadsheet that we enter our cats BG on.
If you need help with dosing we need to look at your spreadsheet and the tests you have done in order to give you some advice
I will give you the link on how to set up the spreadsheet and it will also explain how it works, if you have trouble with setting it up just ask , we have a member here who will set it up for you in no time



https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/




Also here is the food chart
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

 

@JanetNJ

@Panic
Hi ladies , we have a new member here , her cats in Prozinc, it's in her profile, so I asked her to set up her signature and spreadsheet
Looks like vet started him off on 4 units when he was diagnosed, the vet did curve yesterday and wanted to raise his side to 5.5 units, but Step is only giving 5 units

I gave her some info if you want to look it over and read her post
Thanks Janet and Elizabeth

 

Always aim for the sweet spot warm the ears up first, you can put rice in a sock and put it in the microwave, test it on the inside of your wrist to be sure it's not to hot, like you would test a babies bottle. You can fill a pill bottle with warm water and roll it on the ears also.Just keep rubbing the ears with your fingers to warm them up

6. As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try. If he won’t stand still, you can get the blood onto a clean finger nail and test from there.
When you do get some blood you can try milking the ear.
Get you finger and gently push up toward the blood , more will appear
You will put the cotton round behind his ear in case you poke your finger, after you are done testing you will fold the cotton round over his ear to stop the bleeding , press gently for about 20 seconds until it stops
Get 26 or 28 gauge lancets
A lot of us use the lancets to test freehand
I find it better to see where I'm aiming

VIDEO: How to test your cat's blood sugar
Here is a video one of our members did

 

So sorry for the diagnosis. You've done to the right place. diabetes is not a death sentence and they can live long healthy lives with it. Dogs are dosed by weight but not cats. That food is not diabetic friendly. You want low carb wet food. Most feed fancy feast classic or Friskies pate foods. 4 units is a Huge starting dose. Raising it based on one curve may not be a good idea. It's possible the number was so high be a use it was bouncing from going too low the day before. The recommended starting dose is 1 unit twice a day. If you switch to a lower carb food make sure your testing because the bg may lower.

Had to Walmart and pick up

1. A glucose meter. Many here use Walmart Relion Prime because the strips are cheap

2. Box of 100 extra test strips

3. Box of 100 26 to 28 gauge lancets

4. Cotton cosmetic rounds to go behind the ear and protect your fingers

I have a video in my signature showing how I tested my cat CC at home.

 

@Diane Tyler's Mom
Thank you so very much for getting me started on here. I really appreciate everything you have linked in the replies.

 

@JanetNJ Thank you so much for this list, advice, & encouragement. Heading to Walmart today to pick up everything on this list. I might also add on some ketone strips (today he has had zero appetite so far, which is making me nervous!) He ate a good dinner last night (FF mixed with water), but this morning was a no-go at breakfast. I even offered him several choices. Any thoughts on that?

 

Thank you! He is a pretty sweet boy. Very laid back & friendly.

Before his diagnosis he was eating Purina dry food- Select salmon flavor I believe. He also would have FF on some days. He was also eating greenies for treats. Any idea what type of treats he can have now? I wasn't familiar with the freeze dried option you mentioned.

 

You are very welcome

 

You can try PureBites freeze dried chicken, if Scout likes these you can buy the bigger bag for dogs and just break them up into smaller pieces, you'll get more for your money



You can also just Google Freeze Dried Treats , there are a lot of different brands
You can also type in where it says search at the top of the page freeze dried treats and you will see other members post saying what they give their cats.
Look for treats that include just meat as the ingredients, either freeze dried, air dried or dehydrated.

 

I did a search on the sit and found this posted by some membets
When testing you can give them a treat so they will associate after testing they will get a reward, any freeze dried treats are ok such as
PureBites Freeze-Dried Cat Treats with Chicken Breast 2.3 oz ()https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071P7M2HG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_RF84WK64Y994AJKC3GVT?psc=1. I


The freeze dried treats you can get at petsmart, petco and order from chewy. Purebites is popular (cheaper if you buy the dog food ones). My crew like vital essentials it's dehydrated freeze dried raw comes in flavors

freeze dried minnows, made by Vital Essentials. I also buy the ones made for dogs. They're the same as the freeze dried minnows for cats. just cheaper. They also carry other freeze dried treats. I ordered mine through Amazon.

I think the vital essentials are more of a crunchy texture than the purebites

If you cat likes any of these you can buy the bigger bags for dogs they are the same , you will get more for your money just break then up into smaller pieces

 

Esp if he's not eating well I would not give the full 4 unit dose. Maybe do 2 units since you are also lowering carbs until you get the hang of testing. Picking up ketone strips is a good idea. It's he eating yet today? He might t need you to tradition the food slower... Switching can give a tummy ache

 

He has started eating more in the last twenty four hours. He's definitely not ravenous. I give him two big meals; he tends to eat a little at this feeding time & then generally finishes the rest of the food throughout the day. I have not been picking it up as I want him to get more glucose if/when he needs it. Does that seem like an okay strategy? That's similar to how he operated before this all came on anyway.

 

Thank you! I just ordered PureBites & Vital Essentials. Yesterday I did give him 1 Greenie because it's all we had here & I was attempting to take his blood sugar. I did poke him twice, but no blood so far

 

Are you using 26 or 28 gauge lancets and warming his ear,
What meter did you buy, can you add that to your signature also

 

I bought the exact list that the members mentioned on here (Relion meter). 26 gauge lancets. I warmed his ear with both my fingers & a warmed rice sock. Not sure what I'm doing wrong... I might be too hesitant with the lancet for fear of hurting Pudd.

 

keep at it. It will be easier to get a reading once the capillaries start growing in. In the beginning i'd sometimes have to poke 2 or 3 times in the same spot to get a drop. the first couple weeks it can be tricky. don't be afraid to poke through. Try different areas along the edge of the ear. Most find feeding several meals a day works best. I always fed morning, afternoon, dinner and before bed. You can let him eat whenever he wants, except 2 hours prior to the preshot test so the number is not food infuenced.

 

Thank you for the encouragement & advice. <3 I really appreciate everything here on this forum.

 

When you look at the lancet one side will be curved upward, poke with that, just keep trying you will get there Thanks for adding your meter to your signature

 

I'll take a closer look at the lancet. Thanks! & thank you for all your guidance & patience with me!

 

your cat is lucky to have an owner that is trying so hard to help him.

 

No problem we all have been there ask all the questions you want

 

When you start to get some tests on n we have a spreadsheet that you will record Puddys numbers on. This enables you to see how the insulin is working for him and how low he's dropping. We then can help you with dosing when needed.
I can give you the link on how to set it up and it also explains how it works
If you have trouble setting it up we have someone who will do it for you, just ask and I will tag her. The spreadsheet is at the end of everyone's signature

I'm looking at your pic of Puddy he's so darn adorable!
Did you ever watch the show Seinfeld, Elaine's boyfriend's name was Puddy

 

You are doing amazing!! It's wonderful that he's even letting you poke him I will say I found I had to poke harder than what I expected to get blood. I ended up poking myself to get a feel for it haha You will probably "pierce" his ear quite often, but that's okay.

So happy you found this forum. We've been dealing with all this for less than 2 months now and it definitely does get easier. I was so stressed at first I made myself sick, but the people here are amazing and you will learn super fast! Home testing really makes all the difference. I feel so much more in control of what's going on with my kitty when I know what his numbers are.

 

Thank you so much! He's a very sweet, cute boy. Such a friendly cat.
I've only seen some of Seinfeld. HAha! I had no idea there was another Puddy!

Just love Tyler's photo! Orange cats are superb.

 

Thank you! This is so encouraging to hear! I still haven't gotten blood from his ear, but I will continue trying.

 

Still haven't had success with the home testing. I will continue trying. Is there any benefit to using the lancet in one of those poking devices? I can see how the noise might be far too disruptive. I just can't get myself to poke his ear hard enough so far. I will definitely start entering information in the spreadsheet as soon as I am able to do a home test successfully.

 

I did better with just holding it. It's ok if you poke through. When i was filming the video in my signature I poked all the way through and you can see it didn't bother her a bit.

 

Thanks! I really appreciate your video.

 

I forgot to give you the link for the spreadsheet when you're ready
It also explains how it works, if you have trouble with we have a member who will set it up for you just ask
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/

 

@Diane Tyler's Mom @JanetNJ

Oh my goodness! We did it! Granted he had about 3 purebite treats by the time we actually got the blood drop, but WE DID IT! Okay. A little concerned though- 57 was his reading. He had breakfast at 7 & his shot of Prozinc at 7:30am... he got 3.5 units (which is lower than what the vet wanted me to administer- she had prescribed 5.5 U- ugh!) Anyway, is this too low? This is his very first home reading. Thanks!

He's been seemingly quite hungry in the last twenty four hours. Gobbling down Wellness wet food & a little of his Royal Canine Glycobalance (which I am gradually trying to shift out of entirely.) Also wondering if it's alright to give Puddy a variety in terms of his diet (Rotating TikiCat, FF, Wellness- all wet food, of course)? Or is it important to stick with the very same food? Thanks again!

One more thing that's been on my mind: I tried in the search bar (nothing came up)- has anyone used Dr. Marty's raw freeze-dried cat food? It's a little expensive but I was wondering if getting in some raw food would eventually be an important aspect of a healthy lifestyle for Pudd. It's the kind you rehydrate before serving.

 

57 is a little low. I would reduce to 2.5 until you really get the hang of testing. and keep testing! 5u could have been deadly quite frankly. I am so glad you were able to do it!! Co gratulations. As long as it's under 10 carb the food is fine... Some cats get an upset tummy with a lot of switching but some it doesn't matter.

 

Oh I see you got a second test too!! Well done.

 

Thank you thank you!

So, I plan on testing him again (preshot) tonight. I will post his number in here if it still seems low ish. I feel like I might need more advice. Thank you for getting back to me today. <3

 

Also, a question about testing @JanetNJ : what is a good rotation to do (in terms of placement of the poke) on the ears to easily get blood but not cause undue pain/irritation? do most people use a consistent spot on each ear? do they move around quite a bit? just trying to get a feeling for that. thanks!

 

How many hours until the preshot test? I'll set a timer and check in with you.

 

If you see a mark switch ears or move up or down.

 

Oh my goodness. you are too kind! seriously. THANK YOU!

I fed him at 7 AM & gave him the insulin around 7:30 AM. Can I do a preshot test a little before 7pm CST? Or does it need to be 7:30 PM exactly. Thank you!

Also: if that's too late for you (due to time zone differences) I completely understand!

 

You can test a little early if you need to. I'm on the east coast so I'll check in at 8 pm my time.

 

Perfect! Thanks again.

 

im so sorry @JanetNJ ive been trying but was unsuccessful tonight

the one drop i got, the cat moved & it smeared rendering it useless.

 

Without a test I wouldn't do more than 1 unit in case she's still low.

 

If your cat is squirming, you can try to scoop the drop onto the back of your nail so that you can test from there.

 

okay. is there any danger in that? anything i need to watch out for tonight? in reference to lowering the dosage so much?

 

Nope. It's a lot more dangerous to get too much insulin. 1 u is the recommended starting dose.

Your cat didnt have have ketones when he was diagnosed, did he?

 

No, he did not (that I know of). I know they tested his urine for UTI, etc. Hopefully, they tested for ketones. I bought strips for that as well, but we have clumping litter so I have not figured that one out yet.

 

@steph_frances I see you were successful with getting 2 test, congrats it will get easier. Don't forget to fill in the cell for tonight in the units cell if you gave 1 unit
Hang in there it will get easier

 

I looked up the ingredients, I have never fed raw , a lot of members do ,you can start another post and ask what they feed
The ingredients in Dr Marty's have sweet potatoes and veggies in it ,I don't think this would be a good choice
INGREDIENTS:
Nature’s Feast contains: Salmon, Turkey, Whitefish, Chicken Liver, Chicken Heart, Chicken Gizzard, Sweet Potato, Flaxseed, Egg, Pumpkin Seeds, Peas, Carrot, Apple, Blueberry, Cranberry, Ginger, Salt, Kelp, Sunflower Seeds, Spinach, Broccoli, Kale, Mixed Tocopherols (preservatives).

I did a search for you and found this posted by a member
Then there are pre-mixes you can use that add the necessary ingredients to make any protein into a complete diet
Then there are pre-mixes you can use that add the necessary ingredients to make any protein into a complete diet like EZ Complete that just requires water and protein, orAlnutrin

 

Thank you! I really appreciate the encouragement. I was feeling down that I couldn't get that last BG test in.

 

Thank you for looking that up. Seems like a lot of veggies.

 

Found this also
It you opt for a raw diet, the pre-mixes (FoodFurLife and TC Complete) are very helpful so you don't have to source all of the supplements to add. You add water to the pre-mix and then combine it with the raw food
Like I mentioned if you wanted to try a raw diet ,start another post something like
? Who feeds a raw diet, want some suggestions

This may also help you out
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...ng-freeze-dried-raw-food.249941/#post-2819263

 

That's ok
As the ears get used to bleeding and grow more capilares, it gets easier to get the amount of blood you need on the first try.

 

Ha ha well you could get a long handled ladle to catch it in action.

I used a blood ketone meter. Just more convenient.

 

@JanetNJ @Diane Tyler's Mom

Hi. Well, I was able to do it again. Except too MUCH blood this time. ::shiver::

69 at +3. Which still seems low (it is slightly higher than yesterday's reading at this time.) I gave him only 1 unit last night & 1 unit this morning with his breakfast. He's been doing wet food only. Seems to be having some messier poops.

Any dosing advice? Should I post this in the ProZinc forum?

This seems so crazy because it was only a little over a week ago that he was in the 400s in the vets office all day long on his glucose curve. (They were likely using a pet glucose meter though).

 

Wow... Ok so he's earned another reduction. Go to 0.5 units. I have a feeling with this food change your cat is going to be in remission soon.

 

That would be remarkable. I would love that for him. (for us!)

 

hi @JanetNJ - his PMPS: 94

Now what? no shot? .5? This is ProZinc. Thanks!

 

No shoot!

 

Okay. I have to say, I'm grateful but dumbfounded (just because at the vet's office they were so darn high every single time). It's making me question the home meter! Like... could it somehow be off?

 

I think we have all had this thought at some point! You can always test yourself to check and be sure

 

I think more likely he was bouncing from going too low, or it was the high carb food he prescribed.

 

Hi everyone. Thanks again to everyones help on here. I seriously feel so lucky to have found this forum.

Puddy got a 92 on his AMPS. I skipped his insulin again. I did check the Relion against another human meter (the other read that he was at 76). He was SUPER HUNGRY this morning: meowing and meowing, energetically trotting up and down the stairs "FEED ME MOM". Not sure if that's okay or not(?) The boy does need to lose some weight, & to be honest, I really have no idea how many calories I'm giving him at this point. We do about 3.5 oz of wet food morning & night. A few Purebite snacks in between. I imagine the caloric value changes based on which wet food I'm giving him.

He was nearly 20 pounds the last I checked. He should likely be closer to 15. He's a BIG CAT regardless, but I would like him to get to a more healthy weight. He's very inactive despite our efforts to get him to play.

 

AMPS 92
PMPS 101

Continued with no shot tonight (so he has not had insulin in over twenty four hours) @JanetNJ @Diane Tyler's Mom @Sarah&Soph

 

On the label somewhere, it will tell you how many k/cals are in it. A general starting place for calories is to feed 20 calories per pound of IDEAL weight, so if he should be about 15lbs, that's 300 calories per day.

You can also add water to canned food to help "fill him up" without adding any extra calories. Split his total calories into several smaller meals.

 

Wow, great numbers today!

 

Whooohoo puddy!! Keep going! We want to see a remission!!!

 

Thank you so much for these guidelines & advice. Very much appreciated.

 

thank you! i really appreciate all your feedback.

 

Thank you @JanetNJ !! Your advice & encouragement have been amazing.

 

Great numbers did you happen to get an AMPS this morning?
Puddy is looking great
I'm not that experienced at giving dosing advice, Janet is a prozinc you and is experienced

 

Hi @Diane Tyler's Mom

I did not get his AMPS today, unfortunately. I can definitely try tomorrow. He's been off of insulin (based on the preshot numbers I have) for a little over 48 hours now.

 

Ok no problem , he's looking great though
He's just too darn cute

 

I did forget one thing....you should weigh once a week. You don't want them to lose more than 2% per week or it puts them at risk for hepatic lipidosis and if they're gaining (when they're supposed to be losing), you know that even the "starting point" of 20 calories per pound is too much.

So basically, weigh once a week and adjust as needed! A lot of us have baby scales (great place to look for these is at yard sales that advertise baby stuff) but you can use a regular bathroom scale too. It's not as accurate but it's good enough. Just weigh yourself, pick up kitty and do the math!

 

Thank you for that addition! It's good to know that 2% or less is a healthy number for weight loss. I have a spreadsheet for his weight as well. Was planning on weighting every Friday. Now at least I know what numbers are healthy in terms of weight loss (the vet did not give me those guidelines either.)

 

thank you! you should see him currently- he lays on his back like a person. lol.

 

Tyler does the same thing, they are just too cute