? New Member - Shadow, please help...

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Matt802

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Hello everyone, my wife and I have a 16 year old female indoor cat that was diagnosed with diabetes 2 months ago after we noticed her water and food intake increase but her weight and muscle mass get lower.

We took her to the vet, they did an exam + blood work. The blood work was all normal besides her glucose (600), so we started immediate twice daily injections of Lantus, starting at 1 unit. We went back approx 3 weeks later to have the vet show us how to apply a Libre 3 glucose monitor.

Here's where things were very frustrating. The monitor maxes out at 401, and her levels were not below max, like ever. We called the vet constantly, and over the last 2 months, we've kept increasing her units, and until 2 days ago, she was on 6 units, twice per day. We also used my wife's glucose monitor to check blood from her ear periodically. The vet said they'd never seen a cat have such resistance to insulin, but told us to make sure not to increase the dosage too quickly.

Still, her levels were not getting lower and her symptoms were getting worse. She had clear issues with her back legs, and I have been cleaning up urine around the litter box starting about a week ago. We often had to clean her back legs off from urine and litter stuck to her from the neuropathy. The vet didn't talk about food at all, so I ended up getting the prescription Purina DM from Chewy myself and they signed off on it last week.

Then, Friday night I noticed she was barely able to walk on her front paws as well, and she was having a really hard time getting around. My wife and I were devastated, and cried for a while that night over the fact that the next day was probably our day to say goodbye, and we had done everything we could.

Having nothing to lose, I gave her 8 units the next morning before work. I moved the litter box close to her along with plenty of food and water. When I came home, her levels for the first time ever had dropped to 350, and was holding there. I gave her 9 units for her next dose, and that night her levels dropped to 260, but ended up back over max (400) within 8 hours after.

We had planned to make the decision today to let her go, but now that the insulin actually seems to be working, are we stupid or crazy to keep trying to help her? Are we just being selfish? Does she even have a chance at recovery and gaining back any of her muscle at her age of 16?

It breaks my heart to see the higher dose of insulin finally work, but it may be too late for her, and we're just at a loss for words really. We lost her buddy, Snowball to Renal failure just before our first child was born, and now we are expecting in March, and the fact that she won't be able to meet her is just sad beyond measure, as she became a completely different cat when our daughter was born. Very very protective, loving, and patient. She's been such a great cat, and has always had a loving bond with us and I'm just lost as to what I can do because the vet just seems to be out of ideas (we are calling again soon)

Does anyone have any advice or experience with our situation?

Thank you very much for your help.
 
Matt802 said:
Hello everyone, my wife and I have a 16 year old female indoor cat that was diagnosed with diabetes 2 months ago after we noticed her water and food intake increase but her weight and muscle mass get lower.

We took her to the vet, they did an exam + blood work. The blood work was all normal besides her glucose (600), so we started immediate twice daily injections of Lantus, starting 1 unit. We went back approx 3 weeks later to have the vet show us how to apply a Libre 3 glucose monitor.

Here's where things were very frustrating. The monitor maxes out at 401, and her levels were not below max, like ever. We called the vet constantly, and over the last 2 months, we've kept increasing her units, and until 2 days ago, she was on 6 units, twice per day. We also used my wife's glucose monitor to check blood from her ear periodically. The vet said they'd never seen a cat have such resistance to insulin, but told us to make sure not to increase the dosage too quickly.

Still, her levels were not getting lower and her symptoms were getting worse. She had clear issues with her back legs, and I have been cleaning up urine around the litter box starting about a week ago. We often had to clean her back legs off from urine and litter stuck to her from the neuropathy. The vet didn't talk about food at all, so I ended up getting the prescription Purina DM from Chewy myself and they signed off on it last week.

Then, Friday night I noticed she was barely able to walk on her front paws as well, and she was having a really hard time getting around. My wife and I were devastated, and cried for a while that night over the fact that the next day was probably our day to say goodbye, and we had done everything we could.

Having nothing to lose, I gave her 8 units the next morning before work. I moved the litter box close to her along with plenty of food and water. When I came home, her levels for the first time ever had dropped to 350, and was holding there. I gave her 9 units for her next dose, and that night her levels dropped to 260, but ended up back over max (400) within 8 hours after.

We had planned to make the decision today to let her go, but now that the insulin actually seems to be working, are we stupid or crazy to keep trying to help her? Are we just being selfish? Does she even have a chance at recovery and gaining back any of her muscle at her age of 16?

It breaks my heart to see the higher dose of insulin finally work, but it may be too late for her, and we're just at a loss for words really. We lost her buddy, Snowball to Renal failure just before our first child was born, and now we are expecting in March, and the fact that she won't be able to meet her is just sad beyond measure, as she became a completely different cat when our daughter was born. Very very protective, loving, and patient. She's been such a great cat, and has always had a loving bond with us and I'm just lost as to what I can do because the vet just seems to be out of ideas (we are calling again soon)

Does anyone have any advice or experience with our situation?

Thank you very much for your help.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Forum, I am so sorry you are going thru all this, 9 units of insulin seems like a lot, but I am not the expert on Lantus, I will tag the expert Lantus member for you, in the meantime beside the symptoms, we need to know a bit more about your cat, what were you using prior to test with a human monitor, you are good
the most important thing right now is to home test, we find that a human monitor such as the ReliOn Premier monitor and strips are one of the most accurate and easiest way to home test, unfortunately the Libre is not a good choice for home testing they are extremely inaccurate, on the Highest and Lowest BG, they the sensor falls off and it usually does not last the 14 days, it is a frustrating way to test, (by experience and other members)the below there are several links for you to go to open, starting with "HELP US HELP YOU " register and place you signature, also by creating a spread sheet so we can monitor along with you his daily numbers and we can guide you on dosing. For diabetics cat the diet is very important to keep the BG numbers they should have a diet of low carbs between 0-10%, a meal schedule of 2 main meals and 2-3 small snacks a days, if tyu are feeding dry food, which I did for 10 years, all these fry foods and treats contain at least 20-30% carbs also the dye many times causes UTI, and of course over weight. Most of the members here enjoy Fancy Feast Pates, they are USA made so no wast goes in their food, below is also the Drs Food Chart with many brands and selection to choose from, the third Column on the List contains the Carb %s. Don't worry we are here for you, and concern no matter how small, please post, we will respond, This is a Wrol Wide Forum,with World Wide experts, my COrky would have never made it if it was'nt for these unselfish members
@Suzanne & Darcy
@Bron and Sheba)
:bighug::bighug::cat:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
 
Welcome to FDMB.

First, and you're probably not going to like this, many of the prescription diabetic foods, especially kibble, are outrageously high in carbohydrates. Essentially, you end up feeding your diabetic cat the equivalent of cookies, cake and ice cream while thinking you're doing the best thing possible to manage your cat's blood glucose levels. This is a link to a food chart that contains information on carbs. You want to feed your cat a diet, preferably a canned food diet, that is below 10% carb. Most members feed their cat in the 5% range and tend to use Fancy Feast or Friskies because they are a bit lower in cost. However, there are a lot of choices.

There are conditions that require high doses of insulin such as acromegaly and insulin auto-antibodies (IAA is often referred to as insulin resistance.). Blood can be sent to Michigan State University to determine if your cat has one of these conditions. If your vet tells you that these are "rare" conditions, that is very old school thinking. They are far more common than what was originally thought. The post that I linked has information on high dose conditions. I'm also tagging one of the other moderators who has expertise in this area. @Wendy&Neko

Also, please be aware that Lantus is depot insulin. It can take a few days for your cat's system to catch up to a new insulin dose. Basically, it takes around 3 days for a new insulin dose to stabilize. There are sticky notes at the top of the Lantus forum that provide an explanation for how Lantus works. I'm mentioning this since you've been raising your cat's dose. Please do so carefully and monitor at least 4 times per day (get a test before you give a shot and at least once around the middle of both the AM and PM cycles) so you are sure that your kitty isn't dropping into excessively low numbers. You can't gauge if numbers dropped low based on the pre-shot numbers only. If numbers drop low, they can skyrocket back up within a few hours and you will never know if they numbers were low earlier in the cycle. (This is what likely happened when you described the numbers when you dosed 9u.)

I'm never one to say to give up hope. I think there are more things to investigate. I'd also make sure that your vet has run a full blood panel to make sure there's nothing else medically relevant going on. Any source of infection or inflammation can have an effect on blood glucose levels. I'd definitely make sure your cat doesn't need dental work. It's a prime reason that we see cats fall out of remission.

Also methylcobalamin (methyl-B12) is a supplement that will help with diabetic neuropathy which is likely what's causing the leg weakness. It won't "cure" the problem if your cat's numbers are still high but if the numbers are regularly better, it will help to resolve the neuropathy. Zobaline is a brand that is formulated for diabetic cats and is available on Amazon.
 
Hello and welcome. I was one of those members with a "special" kitty. She had both acromegaly (a benign pituitary tumour sending out excess growth hormone that causes the diabetes) and IAA or insulin auto antibodies (like an allergy to injected insulin). Cats with one or both of those conditions can need higher doses of insulin, though not all do. We recommend cats over 6 units of insulin get the testing done that Sienne recommended. One in 4 cats has been found to have acromegaly - though that's "recent" research as of 2015 and not all vets are up on that.

The good news with these cats, is that if increases are done safely with a known dosing method, you can find an insulin dose that moves your cat into healthy blood sugar numbers. And for cats with acromegaly, there are treatments, even ones suitable for older cats. If you can set up a spreadsheet of blood sugar data, we can help you get Shadow into better blood sugars.
 
Can you please set up your signature
Information we need about Shadow
This is where you can set up what we call your signature, it's at the end of everyone's post in gray letters. Just tap on your name up top then tap on signature and add this information. You will link it to your spreadsheet

  • Add info we need to help you:
    • Caregiver & kitty's name
    • DX: Date
    • Name of Insulin (do not include dose or frequency)
    • Name of your meter
    • Diet: "LC wet" or "dry food" or "combo"
    • Dosing: TR or SLGS or Custom (if applicable)
    • DKA or other recent health issue (if applicable)
    • Bexacat or Senvelgo (if applicable) and dates
    • Acro, IAA, or Cushings (if applicable)
    • Spreadsheet link. Please put the signature link on the bottom line of your signature information, on its own, so it is easy to find.
    • Please do not put any information about your location in the signature for security reasons. If you wish to add your country location, please add it to your profile.
Be sure to click the 'Save Changes' button at the bottom. If you need help urgently it is important we know these things at a glance. We don’t want to waste valuable time finding out information.

Here is the link on how to set up your spreadsheet,it will also explain how it works
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-create-a-spreadsheet.241706/
 
Last edited:
I used to give Tyler
https://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-vitamin-b-12-methylcobalamin-5000-mcg-60-capsules-5
the Vitacost brand another member told me about
Vitamin B-12 Methylcobalamin -- 5000 mcg - 100 Capsules

Same as Zobaline , but the Zobaline is so expensive as you know
This is the same thing
The only difference is the Zobaline has 200 mcgs of folic acid
So I bought the folic acid at the supermarket and crush it up and added it to the Vitacost brand
If you can't find the 200 mcg get the 400 mcg and cut it in half and crush it up and add it, some members didn't even add the folic acid and the neuropathy improved
The Vitacost brand is a capsule so just open it and pour the powder on the wet food
Has no taste, no need to crush it up, I still give it to Tyler every now and then and he has never tasted it in his food , I always add water to his food and just stir up the methyl B-12 good
I switched to the vitacost brand because the zobaline was too expensive,
Even though the vitacost brand is 5000 mcgs and the zobaline is 3000 mcgs
What they don't need they will pee out because it's water soluble.

The Zobaline is expensive for 60 pills, 30.00 some other places want 33.00
I used to use the Zobaline when I joined, then a member told me about the Vitacost brand .

It took about 2 months for Tyler to get back to walking normal, jumping on to the couch, running around
But every few weeks I did see a slight improvement
Some members didn't even add the folic acid to the vitacost brand and it still helped and the neuropathy was gone
 
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