New Member - Wet food feeding guide = 4+ cans a DAY?!

Fancy Feast Classic Chicken Pate feeding guide says to feed 1 can for every 3 to 3.5lbs your adult cat weights.

https://www.purina.com/fancy-feast/wet-cat-food/timeless-favorites-classic-pate-chicken

My cat is 17lbs. His ideal weight is probably like 12lbs or 14lbs.

Even if we say he's 12lbs for the feeding guide, there's no chance my cat can put down anywhere close to (12/3) = 4 cans in a day. Just getting him to eat two cans is a struggle. Is Fancy Feast's feeding guide even accurate?

He's a grazer and former dry food addict. I have to micromanage the food bowl, where I have to re-present the food to him to even get close to getting him to finish each half can portion at a time.

Is there a low carb wet food out there that the cat actually will clean the bowl without micromanaging? The only one I found was Hills Urgent Care, which is for supplementary feeding only.

My cat is lethargic and has a constipation problem. X-ray revealed no blockages. Instead the blood test revealed diabetes. Since the diagnosis on 1/6/22, he was switched to wet food. I thought diabetes was suppose to increase appetite?!

edit: Solution to the wet food problem here.

 

Rule of thumb is 20 calories per lb of body weight, for weight loss probably best to take direction from your vet. Diabetics often don't process food fully and actually need more.

How was he diagnosed? What lab work? Did they check for ketones? Pancreatitis?

Not ignoring other questions, just "triaging" so to speak

 

Sure, I have added the spreadsheet with lab numbers to my signature, lets see if it shows up with this post. No ketones found. Elevated glucose levels, so he was diagnosed with diabetes last week.

We initially brought him in because he suddenly was struggling with constipation (frequent unsuccessful attempts at the litter box). He also didn't seem to be eating as much of his beloved dry food anymore during this time. He suddenly didn't seem keen on jumping up on the bed like he normally does anymore. He seems stiff when climbing stairs. Frequent retching (dry heaving). X-ray didn't show any blockages, I was thinking this was all due to hair in his gut after seeing this video but they instead focused on the diabetes narrative



My PMPS just an hour ago was 183 (ProZinc using human meter), so IDK what to do now. His appetite isn't nearly what it needs to be to do 3 cans a day, let alone 4 cans a day. 1/8 tsp miralax twice per day seems to be barely helping, he's still putzing around in the litter box more than usual. He is hiding under the table as opposed to cuddling with me, the lancing routine is ruining our bond so far.

 

Good job getting started!

Did they run fructosamine? Based on the tests you do have he does appear diabetic - sometimes their BG gets elevated from stress at vet so a single BG test isn't the most reliable for diagnosis.

I see you shot 0.5U? And notes say you did what we call a furshot? When that happens you never want to give another shot, because you don't know how much went in. In this case though, he shouldn't be in any danger (assuming his current full dose is ok, and it appears to be) because you shot such a reduced dose twice.

It's possible he's uncomfortable from the constipation. What did vet recommend for that? Just the miralax? Tagging @Katherine&Ruby and @Suzanne & Darcy here

Are your preshots fasting for 2 hrs prior? You don't have to fast for any other tests, just those for consistency to see if it's safe to give shot. 0.5U was ok, but you shot a 215 which was relatively close, you could have done something like 1U as well. But all data is good data, let's see what happens!

The decreased appetite and lethargy could be secondary to constipation. But it does sound a little bit like pancreatitis as well, so we'll see what happens once stool gets moving, hopefully soon here.

You'll get your bond back, don't worry. There's a learning curve for sure, but everyone settles into the new setup eventually.


@Bron and Sheba (GA) if you're around - I have to get to bed, can you give the usual links and such for new members? If not I'll try to post them in the morning.

 

I might have broken tags with the edits, so here @Bron and Sheba (GA) @Suzanne & Darcy @Katherine&Ruby

I'd suggest picking up some urine ketone strips as well, from any pharmacy, over the counter. It would be a little unusual to see ketones at these BGs, but given that he's not eating much, not feeling well, lethargic, and newly diagnosed always better safe than sorry.

 

They did want us to do a $100 frustosamine test, which I cancelled at the last second after finding this thread where all the posters recommended to not do it. This was the first thread I think I found that led me to finding these forums.

Yes, I was following the ProZinc SLGS guide here on the forums. His preshot (PMPS) was 183, so then according to that guide I had three possible choices: (1) not shoot at all, (2) delay and retest and reshoot as needed, (3) or do a reduced dose. I chose the latter, especially since he was especially lethargic today and I was too chicken to do midday tests alone without helper.

Yes, they recommended Miralax. My cat HATES laxatone gel, even the salmon flavor (he love loves salmon). And yes, he is visibly uncomfortably when straining, he is frequently unsuccessful and sometimes will only pass out clear liquid fecal fluid.

Yes, I made sure do not feed 2hrs prior. His preshot was 183 tonight. I thought about doing 1U, but glad I didn't due to botched first try.

Okay, the pancreatitis thing concerns me. His urine litter clumps also seems to be more golf ball in size, where before they would be much larger irregular shapes. I will have to research how to inquire about this to the vet or even what this entails.

He just came in my room now and is purring 2hrs after his PM shot. Man this a rollercoaster. How has someone not invented a device that makes this easier. Like a lancet that also draws the blood.

(I updated my spreadsheet and shaded the numbers in bold & red that are outside normal ranges using conditional formatting.)

 

For people using Fancy Feast Classic (or any wet food really): Is your cat really able to chow down over a half can in one sitting?

Or is following my cat around with a food bowl and doing up to 16 feedings a day my new life now?

 

A fructosamine test is not recommended once you start hometesting but it is a very good test to do to diagnose FD. That is because it gives an average of the past few weeks BGs and does not reflect any stress from the cat that can effect a vet visit BG test.

I would definitely get some Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones. Especially if there is any lethargy, not eating well or feeling unwell.
It’s a simple test and tells us a lot. And if caught early ketones can be treated easily. If not it can be an expensive vet stay.

I’m confused….has Mister been diagnosed with pancreatitis? If not and your kitty is not eating well and is lethargic, I would ask the vet to do an fPL Snap or Spec test to check for pancreatitis and ask for an antinausea medication. Also get the ketones checked if you have not already done so.

Yes, most cats can eat 1/2 can of FF in a sitting ….although some are slow or some are grazers. It is important he eats well though, otherwise you will run into other problems.
However the bottom line is…..if he is not eating and is lethargic…I would get him checked out at the vet and specifically ask for a fPL test and a ketones test.

Here are a couple of links about transitioning from dry to wet food and stimulating appetite
TRANSITIONING FROM DRY TO WET FOOD

STIMULATE KITTYS APPETITE

 

Hendrick also loved his dry food and temptations and the transition is challenging for sure. We are currently having a similar struggle, put the bowl in front he only eats so much then walks away, but if you re-present he might even finish it. Or it might take a few re-presents.

 

same exact thing I posted just the other day, and I've said those words to my wife several times recently when it seems like he isnt as enthusiastic about food as i would expect. but he IS recovering from DKA and mild pancreatitis so....sigh. like you said, what a gd rollercoaster this is and why on earth isnt there a device that pokes the ear, grabs the blood and tests it one hit.

 

My Taz is recovering from pancreatitis as well and had quite a few of the symptoms your cat is showing. For the potty box, when he was in real pain, you could tell he wanted to avoid going. He would jump in and out, and a lot of tail swishing as he decided if he wanted to get in at all. I think pushing to go hurt him. One of my first clues that something was off, was that he was sleeping in front of the bed rather than jumping up on it. Once we started home treatment (after a very expensive vet stay), he's doing much better and is acting more himself. In fact he's scratching at my door right now, wanting me to get out of bed.

 

You can increase the Miralax to 1/4 tsp. twice a day. Consider adding freeze dried pumpkin to his food or psyllium seed husks for added fiber.

 

Try to lose the loud, clicky, scary lancing device and do it free hand! Give treats always.

 

He tested negative for ketones in his blood test on 1/5/22. How do you use strips on a cat? Do you place a bunch in the litter box and pray he hits one?

No, he hasn't been tested for pancreatitis afaik. I put his lab work in the spreadsheet in my signature. I will ask about these tests.

What is the minimum amount of food he should be eating prior to getting insulin?

 

My vet said "a few mouthfuls at least"

but the more I learn, I'm no longer sure that it is as much about the food as about where the cat's BG is at the time. I'll let one of the experts here weigh in on that, this is all new to me

 

@Bron and Sheba (GA) Just spoke with the vet. On the blood test he did on 1/5/22, the test included "PrecisionPSL" which is better than the fPL Snap test. His result for PrecisionPSL was 16 (normal range is 8-26). So they said pancreatitis is ruled out.

 

Most of those labs are not too bad. Some are great and enviable (like the kidney values, specific gravity of urine, etc.). As for the elevated liver values, I have seen this a lot in diabetic cats. I think they will improve as his glucose numbers go down.

 

Well, as my vet said, cats haven’t read the manual on pancreatitis. They don’t play by the rules. But it seems like something else is going on! Did the vet have any thoughts? You could try some Cerenia or Ondansetron to see if it helps to get over a rough patch.

 

No. You have to try to stick it in the urine stream. I bought a NovaMax Plus blood ketone meter from ADW Diabetes Supply instead (after my cat had DKA and was hospitalized for a week.). This uses a drop of blood on a ketone test strip (similar to the BG test but different meter/strip.). It gives you a numerical value for the ketones.

 

Just a heads up for anyone looking for it -- that Nova Max Plus is sold as a blood glucose meter everywhere I found it. Then when you read the details it mentions it can test ketones as well.

Walmart.com has it for like $18, Amazon $14.99....neither of which get it in my hands quickly enough (next Wed maybe) so I may venture out into *gasp* brick-n-mortar land

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01G5OE0QY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Yes. It can test glucose as well… just using a different strip. I used a Relion Premier for BG because I could get a lot of strips for a lot less money. The ketones strips for the NovaMax are about $1.80 each from ADW. But ADW usually has a deal where you get a “free” meter if you purchase the strips… or maybe it’s the other way around? Free strips if you purchase the meter? I can’t remember!

 

My cat is sleeping under tables most of the day. He hasn't had the zoomies in over a week, normally he has the zoomies everyday without fail, he sounds like a horse galloping on the hardwood floors during the zoomies.

The last couple weeks he has been drinking a lot, now today I haven't seen him drink anything, but that could be because I am making his wet food into a slurry with water.

Who is the best vet in the country for cats? I feel like I need to reach out to a vet who specializes in cats, specifically for diabetes remission, as well as to figure out why my furbaby is lethargic and not himself and acting weird in the litter box. Or should a wait a week or so to let the insulin take effect?

 

Patience, patience, patience. You'll need a lot of it.

Everything you describe is normal. Polyuria, polydipsia. It's why the majority of diabetic cats are brought in to the vet in the first place, line included. That will improve when he gets into regulated numbers, as will his energy level. Ask any diabetic human, those high numbers do NOT feel pleasant, at all.

Checking for ketones is always a good idea when lethargic, but sometimes it's just the high numbers. And if they seem nauseous, in pain, not eating, pancreatitis is always the first we go for. Just because it was ruled out recently doesn't mean it hasn't cropped up since. But honestly, I think it's just the high numbers.

Please know that remission may not be possible, I want to make sure that expectation is set. The earlier and faster you can get him regulated, the better your chances are. So first goal: regulation. Remission: bonus.

He needs at least 3-5 days at each dose to see how it's working. You chose SLGS, so that means holding a dose for 7 days and doing a curve. If you can test more often, you can change dose.more often if needed.

 

i do the slurry with water every time i feed Ares, keeps him very well hydrated and i use psyllium husk powder lightly sprinkled on food 3 or 4 x per day. it has him regular and getting his stool softer too. every time i think its not working, he goes and takes a stinky stinky poo...lol. When he was first diagnosed, he had constipation (i tried alot of things) and his body didnt seem to keep water in, he just kept peeing it all out. kept losing weight no matter how much food he was eating (lost over half body weight) now he is so much healthier in a matter of weeks! grooming, zooming, playing again, gaining weight! his health shows with his BG colors on the chart

 

This is helpful, I will probably do 2 units tonight then and stick to 2 units given he's a 17lb cat.

 

@Hendrick's mom and dad
If your kitty is recovering from DKA he should be eating eating one and a half times as many calories as normal. If he’s not you may need to get an antinausea medication from the vet
Are you testing daily for ketones. ?
Can you please put DKA in the signature please so we are aware when helping you. Thanks.

 

So you don't have a lot of data, but based on my experience reading what feels like hundreds of spreadsheets, 2U is going to be too much. If you see this, I would actually go 1.5U. That lower PMPS last night tells me he probably saw green during the day on the 1.75U dose, I just don't know how low (I don't think dangerously but you never know). I am going the more conservative dosing method until you have more data, and I am assuming a reduction was earned during the day, so down to 1.5U. He didn't do too badly with that 0.5U either, so that reaffirms 2U likely too high.

 

I do think you need to let him have some time to get regulated.

 

I totally agree with this. He has already seen blue that we know of! So you should not be in a hurry. I think 2 is too high also at this point. You must go about this safely.

 

I gotta get some of the psyllium husk stuff. I noticed Hendrick's stool seems very firm since the diagnosis, he had a BM today and it was not super hard but still...I am keeping an eye on this situation.

 

@FrostD Crap, I already gave him 2u tonight after he read 308 on the Relion Premier Blu.

I will do 1.5u in the morning then. He is 17.2lbs, the vet recommended 2u.

Do I really need to lance him every two hours to find the nadir? Man, I just don't think that is sustainable.

 

you're doing better than I am, I haven't even gotten a good blood drop yet in two tries

 

I had to use Vaseline and warm rice sock method. My cats left ear is harder to get blood from than the right ear for some reason. 26ga lancet freehand. I have a helper. After lancing, I have to massage the ear towards the tip where the lance is to form the droplet bigger and bigger until it's big enough.

Learning how to do this solo is gonna be a whole different ballgame. Administering the insulin is 10x easier than lancing the ear for testing blood glucose.

It is shocking that we have satellite trackers on sea turtles, but no one has figured out a way to test glucose in a easy way.

 

Few things:
The sequence of last 3 tests leads me to believe he might be bouncing from yesterday's AM cycle (the one I just said I think he saw green). So what may have happened is he dropped lower/faster than he was used to, then his liver dumped stored glycogen into his body as a safety measure. Problem is, Mr Liver doesn't really know whats a true threat and what isn't. Very normal for newly diagnosed/unregulated cats. It can take up to 6 cycles (3 days) for numbers to come back down. So, stick with the 1.5U for at least 3-4 days before making a decision about what to do (if he drops below 90 though, that's a 0.25U reduction).

Secondly - you don't have to test every 2 hours every day. For people that are away from home, can't test often for whatever reason, we just say hold the dose for a week, then do a curve on a day you're home. OR what most people tend to do is grab random tests to fill in the blanks. So a +2 tonight, a +4 and +7 tomorrow, a +2 and +8 the next, etc.

When you see spreadsheet with LOTS of tests, those caregivers are often aiming for tight regulation, or the majority of numbers in green. The advantage to that is better chances of remission, and overall better health for the cat. The downside is quite obviously the testing required...using insulin is a bit like playing with fire, if you're going to try to get nadirs down to 50 you have to be very very careful about it.

 

thanks for the tips, we'll keep trying. And yes I agree, one of the first thing I was told about this entire deal was "pfffftt...insulin shots are going to be the least of your problems, thats the easiest part of the whole thing!" To which I was highly skeptical. I'm not a medical guy (Network dude) so the idea of giving my cat subcue injections twice a freaking day was terrifying. But low and behold that is a piece of cake. I just wish BG hometesting was!

Regarding the fact that we are living *in the future* and it seem like there should be a better way

there is the Freestyle Libra patch BUT...the more reviews I read, the more it didn't sound like a good solution. When I first heard of it I was so excited, a way to continuously monitor Mr. Hendrick's BG without stabbing his poor ears!

but man...those reviews. I wonder if any members here have ever tried to use it and what the experience was.

 

Oh, lots of people here have used the Libre on their cats, with varying degrees of success. I am trying to remember right now who has… @Liz & Minnie but she’s not on the Board that often anymore. I will try to think of more people. I do know that some cats will not tolerate them and will get them off (even with the little shirt on over it.). Other people have had them break very quickly and they have to be replaced (although I think the company will replace it for you- but you still have to put your kitty through placing the thing all over again.) I know a woman on a different group whose cat had a very negative reaction to having an RF device stuck on/under his skin.). But for some people the Libres have worked well. @Katherine&Ruby didn’t you try one on Ruby?

 

Dang, 327 on the AMPS (AM preshot). Highest number yet. Went with 1.5u anyways. Maybe 2u is better given his weight at 17.2lbs.

I tried doing the rice sock massage solo and he kept moving away too much. I don't see how it's possible to test BG without a helper. Should I try putting him in his kitty holster (walking vest)?

 

What kind of insulin are you using? I can’t remember now? ProZinc? Or Lantus? Can you add it to your signature that appears at the bottom of your posts? Too early to increase yet. The more you can test the faster you will be able to increase (if necessary). You can try the kitty holster if he’s comfortable wearing it and is happy in it. Whatever works!

 

P.S. I know it’s hard to test in the beginning! I was in tears many times that first week. My kitty was a champ, but I was incompetent!

 

ProZinc. I'll add that to my sig now

 

I have used three Libres on Ruby. They are great. You can just scan the cat, it takes interstitial readings every 15 minutes and you have continuous data as long as you scan every 8 hours, if you get the standalone Reader and have a PC you can download 24 hours of raw data. So many great things. Caveats: my cat hates having it on her, the sensors are notoriously fussy and can fizzle out before 14 days if the cat doesn't scratch it off before then, not to mention the vet stress if you don't know how to apply it yourself. I managed to apply the last one to Ruby after she went to the vet and I asked them to shave her fur down to her skin so that the sensor would stick and I applied it myself with a little vetbond. It's simple to do. There are members who don't post often who have them on their cats all the time. Here's a good post about it: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...stration-explanations-tips-discussion.221630/

If you're a network guy, you will love the technology behind this. Not sure Mr. Hendrick will though, but it's worth a try if you can manage to apply it yourself. I applied it to Ruby's neck and got a Kitty Kollar to cover it. Here is a pic of her with the sensor on and the Kitty Kollar:

 

But why don’t you use a Libre on Ruby on a regular basis?

 

Ruby looks cute in her cheesecake photo

 

Because she hates it and is miserable with it on. Not every cat reacts to it this way though.

 

I was able to do my first BG test solo tonight. Previously, my helper used a towel to hold him while I lanced. I simply used the towel, folding it over top of him (not even wrapping him)... and I think he assumed he was restrained like he would be with two people.

It's also apparent to me now that the rice sock if most useful so he doesn't tuck his ear in, more so than any other aspect of it (the heat, the backing for the needle, etc). The rice sock literally allows me to keep his ear fully extended.

He tested 303. Is that normal? I would think it should be going down, but I will stick it out the 3-4 days like @FrostD said.

Also, he seems to be eating more food now, which is good. Still far away from 4 or 5cans a day he should be supposedly eating though. I think he ate like 2.5 cans yesterday, which is up from the previous days.

 

Congrats on getting the test! Right now there is no “normal” test result. It is what it is and you have to dose carefully and test as much as you can to see what trends develop. We don’t look at static numbers. We see how low a dose of insulin takes the cat and adjust dosing accordingly. Ideally, we want the cat to be between 50-100 on a human meter. It may take some time to get there.

 

Congratulations! Your first solo test! That’s so great! Stay the course and see how be does on this dose now, following the SLGS parameters. I’m happy for your success.

 

Good job!

303 isn't too bad for newly diagnosed. What you'll want to prioritize now is tests in the +4 to +7 range, that will tell us how well the dose is working. For now, with the dry food in the picture, we want nadirs around 90

 

My cat is begging for food within that 2hrs before the PMPS. His appetite seems to be improving with each day during this cold turkey switch to wet food.

Still working up the courage do try a +4 to +7 test like @FrostD suggested... Maybe tomorrow.

I still have no clue how people manage to only have 2 or 3 feedings per day with larger cats. For example, a 12lb cat supposedly should get 4 cans of Fancy Feast Classic. So some people are able to have their cat eat TWO CANS IN ONE SITTING?! That just does not make sense, I don't believe that's even possible. It's a struggle to get my cat to eat a half can in one sitting, a little less than a half can seems to be what my cat prefers to eat in one sitting.

 

I free fed, he's about 13.5 lbs. But yes he would eat the equivalent of about 1 can as soon as I set it out, 1/2 can by about 4-6 hrs later, then the rest he may finish or eat about half. I set food out twice a day, so yes close to 4 cans total. He is not an active cat by any measure, quite lazy

 

Wow. And my cat is 17lbs and I've never seen him eat that much at any point in his life, lol. He's a grazer!

Maybe there is a wet food out there that he will like better. Hmm. So far I've tried Hounds & Gato Chicken, and most recently Fancy Feast Classic Chicken Pate and Beef & Chicken. I bet he'd love the FF Classic "Savory Salmon" flavor because he LOVES salmon, but it's out of stock everywhere due to global cat food shortage.

 

Let him eat! Can you feed him just prior to the two hour window before PMPS?

 

Yep, that's what I've been trying to do, but it didn't line up that way yesterday.

His appetite yesterday was very good. Now today, his appetite is back to being very low.

After doing a BG test, I feed him and then give him the insulin while he is starting to eat. Should I wait a period of time until after he's done eating before giving the insulin?

I did a +6 test just now like @FrostD recommended and it came back with 322! This raises more questions than answers. It's almost like the insulin is not doing anything.

edit: New thread here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/misters-dosing.258048/

 

It actually looks like he is bouncing, they can stay high and kind of flat when that happens. It would also appear he probably nadirs earlier, probably +4 or 5 ish if I had to guess

Can you start a new thread when you get a chance and tag me? This one getting long

 

You don't have to wait to give the insulin. Once he starts to eat you can go ahead and give it. That's what I always did.

 

My vet recommended 2 strict meals daily, half his daily food at one and half at the other. So I feel you on the “that’s a lot of food all at once” issue. It definitely seems like a lot. How I’m handling that with Mike is what I call giving him “courses”. I give him some of his daily meal, then leave him alone to eat. Then I wait 10 minutes, and give him more. Currently I’ve got that divided up into 4 courses. It prevents scarf and barf early in the meal, when he’s hungry and very eager to eat. It also gives him a little time to get the food down so that he doesn’t walk away if it seems like a bit too much all at once.
My other cat Violet is a civie, but I’m switching her to meals too in order to make this easier, not have to separate the two, and regulate her weight so that she doesn’t end up in the same boat as Mike. She also seems to do better with the courses too. Hope this helps.

 

I figured out the issue, now my cat is eating 3.5 to 4 cans in a 24hr period which is perfect.



Dish washer pods, the vast majority of which are scented, was causing the issue. I now use free & clear pods (unscented) and hand wash his bowls with unscented soap with a dish scrubber designated for cats only.

This "Fresh Scent" to the human nose (MUCH weaker than a cat's nose) is extremely strong, especially on silicone lids for his food bowls and his cans of cat food. These lids retain a strong odor of this "fresh scent" which cannot be scrubbed away no matter how hard you try. I literally tried for like 20 minutes under hot water with soap and vigorously scrubbing. It's like when you get paint on your hand or adhesive, you have to "wear" it off over time. After about a week and a half of hand washing them, the scent is finally gone.

So essentially I (along with most cat owners) was marinating his food in a strong chemical scent.

 

nice catch! My wife loves scented soaps, handsoaps, dishwashing liquid, you name it. I cannot stand perfume, cologne, or scented soap for the most part, always had a sensitivity to those things as long as I can remember. So I avoid them but they exist in the household and I've never thought twice about washing cat dishes with scented dishsoap. Ty!!

 

I'm so glad you figured out the problem. I only buy the Free and Clear dishwasher tablets! There are some out there that use better ingredients than others. Then again, I don't use anything scented very much. I use unscented laundry detergent (lots of people have skin reactions to the scented stuff and I can't stand the lingering scent in my clothes.) We use unscented liquid soap of very mildly unoffensive (Soft Soap makes one with aloe that has almost no scent). A lot of my cats absolutely hate scents like that so years ago I figured out what a big turn off it is for my cats to smell scented soaps and lotions on my hands when I reach to pet them. It's all about the cats around here

Now, speaking about scents. You need to be really careful about what you have in your home. Those air fresheners contain a lot of VOCs that are not good for people and even worse for cats. Scented candles can also be really bad.... I know :-( Many Essential oils that people like to diffuse are toxic to cats as well.