New to insulin and injections

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by JenM92, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Hi everyone!

    Let me start with saying this forum and site have been amazing for information. Our kitty was diagnosed with diabetes in late June of this year. I suspect it had been going on a while, initially this was my boyfriend's cat but I moved in around Feb. She was overweight and her fur was matted and always felt dirty. She dropped a huge amount of weight and we got concerned, noticed she had a UTI and brought her in and got our diagnosis. Unfortunately, the vet that was able to see her ASAP has been atrocious to deal with. We were told for the first month to feed her half a can of the Purina pro plan DM wet food twice a day then bring her back after a month to check her sugars. During this time, no other information was given. We tried several times to call and there was always some kind of excuse to why the vet couldn't talk.

    Fast forward to her month check in, not surprisingly her fructosamine level was still high so insulin was recommended (after she told me perhaps my boyfriend and I should have a conversation about putting her down). Our kitty (Gem) had a very difficult start to life, she was abused and then abandoned as a kitten for an entire month before someone found her locked in an empty suite and she has some issues and aggressiveness towards certain people now. That being said, I can brush out mats, trim her nails and have never had an issue. But because the vet struggled and had to sedate her, I felt as though she was giving me no options.

    Thank goodness I advocated at least TRYING the insulin, and let me tell you I cried such happy tears when the first injection went incredibly smooth. No meowing, no flinch, nothing. The current dosing is 5 units of caninsulin twice a day and maintaining the same diet of the wet food. I have made an apt with the vet I'm used to seeing with my parents animals who I completely trust and enjoy seeing. My long winded story leads me to the question, this morning was the first morning Gem definitely moved around and wasn't thrilled when I made the tent in her scruff. I'm assuming that is because I need to change my injection site periodically? Is there a rule of thumb for how often to move? She also needs to put on some weight as the undiagnosed diabetes dropped her down significantly low so I don't feel as I have too many places to go with the injection. Bonus question, we switched to dried salmon and dries chicken for treats that she enjoyed, any recommendations for diabetic safe treats? Snapchat-1414898798.jpg
    Thank you for reading!
     
  2. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    WELCOME TO FDMB! Boy am I glad you found us! smh sounds like Poor kitty has been through the wringer. Poor baby.
    We are dedicated to helping any and all diabetic kitties so you have found a safe place to land.

    5 units is a heck of a lot of insulin. Not that its unheard of but we get so many coming here from Vets that unfortunately dose cats like they do dogs. Cats metabolize insulin completely different from dogs...BUT WE CAN HELP! Dissect the word Caninsulin = Canine Insulin.:eek:
    There are more suitable types of insulin, that work well for cats.

    Theres a wealth of information here with good folks to help you navigate it. Again welcome to our forum and hold on for more replies!
    jeanne
    btw your kitty is adorable. There are a LOT of adorable's here:bighug:;)
     
  3. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Hi and welcome Jen and Gem!! :bighug::bighug:

    First of all, I’m happy to hear you’re looking at other vets. Any vet that recommends putting a cat down because it has diabetes or is difficult to handle should not be practicing :mad:

    I’m concerned about the high starting dose of Vetsulin. First Vetsulin, also called caninsulin since it was made for canines as in dogs, is not always the best insulin for cats who have higher metabolisms. Second, it’s a very fast acting insulin which makes the huge dose scary to me. Please know you need to feed Gem at least 30 minutes before giving her the Vetsulin because of how fast it hits. I’d seriously consider switching to a gentler long acting insulin like prozync or Lantus. Since you’re seeing the new vet, I’d ask about that. Also I hope you’re feeding her more now. Again, it sounds like the vet is treating her as if she were a dog. Cats are grazers and do better eating smaller meals several times a day. We suggest giving the bulk of the food around shot times then smaller meals here and there. Most of us here feed Fancy Feast pate which is low in carbs. You want to feed her foods that have less than 10% carbs. Freeze dried treats are the best. Is that what you mean by dried salmon and chicken? The 2 brands I like are PureBites and VitalEssentials. Minnie really likes the PB shrimp and the VE minnows. Diabetic cats need to eat more because they can’t process the nutrients in foods efficiently even when they are eating, hence the weight loss. They also burn calories just by peeing since there’s sugar in their urine. Do you know her ideal weight? A good rule of thumb is ideal weight x 20 = calories intake daily. Minnie should be 16 so she should be eating about 320 calories a day. I think Gem probably needs to eat more.

    I don’t think her reaction was because of the same injection site, though I could be wrong. Some insulins sting more than others at higher doses and 5 is getting up there. I’d try to fill the syringe and let it get to room temp before the shot. Cold insulin can also sting more than at room temp. what’s the length of the syringe’s needle you’re using? I started with 12mm and switched to 6mm. Minnie tolerates those way better because it’s a short needle that goes in. Also, always shoot at an angle like 45 degrees, not straight down into her body. That makes a big difference. The further away from the base of the neck, the better. Here are the sites you can try

    03CCED3E-D77D-4C8D-AC30-95499EA8C4A6.jpeg
    lastly, we also really suggest home testing because it’s the only way to make sure your cat is at safe doses. If you’re up to trying it, we can give you great tips and you don’t need an expensive human meter, most of us use Walmart’s ReliOn
     
  4. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Waving to you from central Ontario.

    So glad you are seeking a new vet. Your current vet is incredibly out-of-date.

    5 units of caninsulin is a very high dose. Caninsulin (canine) is not a good insulin for cats. Cats have a different metabolism than dogs. This insulin drops a cat fast and hard and rarely lasts the 12 hours. Did the vet start you at this dose? or was it a gradual moving up the scale (even then, it is recommended that increases are done 0.25 units at a time)?

    There are better insulins out there, Lantus being one of the best and very affordable in Canada.

    It is incredibly important that you test glucose levels at home. It is the only way to keep your Gem safe. The five units is a big dose. A lot of Canadians use the FreeStyle Lite glucometer. It takes a small amount of blood. Strips in Canada are expensive. Having PC /Shoppers points help. (The Relion meters are not available in Canada).

    In an emergency
    To answer your question, sometimes cats flinch. You can try injecting to one side of the scruff and then the other. With the weight loss, you should have a decent amount of scruff to play with.
    There are also other places to inject under the skin.

    Only feeding at shot time is out-dated thinking. And why only 1 can per day? Unregulated cats cannot metabolize their food properly and are usually ravenous.Cats handle insulin best when they are fed a main meal before each shot and then a couple of snacks inbetween.
    Feed 1/2 can before shot time. Then a snack (a couple of tsps) two and four hours later (this is because the caninsulin is hitting hard during these times).

    BTW: there is nothing special about the DM food other than the price. Fancy Feast and Friskie pates are low carb and do the job quite nicely.

    The freeze dried treats are perfect to use as treats for testing. Get a test, give a treat. The freeze dried single ingredient treats for dogs can be used. A little cheaper and the same thing. Just doesn't have the pretty kitty packaging.

    Food chart link (you are looking for under 10% carbs).
    Canada only food chart (it has not been updated in awhile and may not be entirely accurate)
    Canada
    Vet interview/screening topics
    Blood testing at home
    Sorry for bombarding you with all sorts of stuff, and welcome to the best place you never thought you would be. Vets get little training in diabetes. The people here have done their research and have lived feline diabetes 24/7. We can help support you every step of the way.
     

    Attached Files:

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  5. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Thanks for the speedy reply everyone!

    It's so comforting to hear there's information and help here, beyond appreciated!

    I have been feeding her more, though I'm thinking not enough still. I was given NO direction as far as when to give the injection, literally nothing. So I've been doing the injection as she eats. Let me tell you that is stopping as of now! I've read on a couple of different posts that fancy feast pate is a good one, so I think I'll go and pick some up today as well!

    The brand of treats I have is the UBite raw bits in salmon and chicken, and yes freeze dried raw! She likes them a lot :)

    The syringes are a 12mm 29 gauge but I purchased 8mm 30 gauge to switch too. How long can I safely leave the insulin loaded to warm?

    I was going to make an apt for her at the end of the month, perhaps I should be going in sooner?

    Really appreciating this you guys!
     
  6. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    No, please bombard me. We have been given nothing for information and I'm desperate to do whatever I can to keep this cat happy and healthy. She deserves it after everything she's been through.

    We're on day 5 of injections and the 5 units was the starting dose. You should have listened to this vet talk to the couple next to me with their dog. I was horrified.

    I will be picking up some pate as well today, fancy feast for the win! I am off work this week, however next week I start my usual Monday to Thursday 730 to 530. Any recommendations for getting the extra food in?
     
  7. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    You can do 20 minutes or so. I also run the syringe in my fingers to get it warm. It’s a small amount so it warms up fast! The other thing you can do is give her a treat after just like we do with testing so she has a positive association
     
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  8. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I couldn’t agree more! She’s adorable and she’s lucky to have you on her corner!!! :cat:
     
  9. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    I agree with what everyone has said. You really should be home testing especially with caninsulin, it can drop a cat's BG fast.
    It's the only way to keep Gem safe.
    I wouldn't wait until the end of the month to see the new vet.
    What a cutie pie Gem is.
     
  10. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Yes!

    The high dose of caninsulin is worrying. It could be that Gem needs a high dose, it could be that she is being overdosed.
    While you are waiting for the appointment, run out and get a FreeStyle Lite meter. Sometimes comes free with the purchase of strips. If not, there is a coupon for a free meter here. Just don't tell them it's for a cat.

    https://www.freestyle.abbott/ca/en/order/lite.html
    A box of 100 strips costs roughly $80CDN.

    (Your new vet may insist on a pet meter called an AlphaTrak. The strips are crazy expensive at $2/strip. Human meters work just fine. That's what the vets all used before pet meters were marketed. The two meters cannot be compared side-by-side. They are calibrated differently. But low is low and high is high and there are protocols for both meters on this forum.)
     
  11. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    if you're in the US, Walmart’s ReliOn is great and has the most affordable strips. I also really like that the strips have a chip that “sucks the blood in” I find it much easier to collect the drop and know I have enough that way! I started with Freestyle and even that gets pricey after a while. Yesterday I used up 4 strips with one test alone! 50 strips only last me about 2 weeks :nailbiting:
     
  12. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi Ale she is from Canada :cat:
     
  13. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Oh scratch that then :(
     
  14. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018

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    Since you are going back to work from 7:30 to 5:30 you can give the insulin at 6:30 AM and 6:30 PM so at least you can get a morning test in after you give the insulin.
    Maybe even 6 AM and 6 PM
     
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  15. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Do you have other cats? When I was working full time, I’d split up 2 cans of fancy feast within 2 hours in the am before leaving. So she’d get 1/2 a can when I got up, then another 1/2 30 minutes later and one can before I left. I’d do the same when I got back home with another 2 cans. The feeder Diane posted is a great option for overnight as well!
     
  16. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
  17. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    As you test the ears they will grow more cappilaries and testing will become easier
    Aim for the sweet spot , You might want to purchase 28 gauge lancets and do it free hand on a 46 degree angle, eventually more capillaries will grow and it becomes easier
    Start to rub his ears to get him used to it, warm them up first, if need be put some rice in a sock and warm it in the microwave and put it on his ears, make sure its not to hot. You don't want to aim for the vein

    [​IMG]Diabetic Cat Care Home Testing Your Cat’s BG


    [​IMG]
     
  18. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Thanks you, truly, everyone this is great.

    I followed my gut instinct and got her to the vet. She's been lethargic and I couldn't tell if it was the heat, it's been about 36 celsius here for about 5 days. But I just thought no, I can't risk this. Hoping to get some more answers and that second opinion.

    That feeder looks awesome, I'm going to check it out! I also have no worries getting up early so I can start doing testing. Waiting on the vet, I imagine it'll be a few hours.

    And no, just the one kitty!
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  19. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Oh my, so glad you brought her in!
     
  20. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    Following your gut is the best thing you can do always!!! Keep us posted. Lantus is very affordable in Canada. Most of us order it from Mark’s Pharmacy in Canada so if you decide to switch to Lantus that’s an added bonus!
     
  21. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Q["Aleluia Grugru & Minnie, post: 2604236, member: 28971"]Following your gut is the best thing you can do always!!! Keep us posted. Lantus is very affordable in Canada. Most of us order it from Mark’s Pharmacy in Canada so if you decide to switch to Lantus that’s an added bonus![/QUOTE]

    Thank you, I will!

    I just got off the phone with the emerg vet I took her too (vet we will be regularly seeing couldn't see her today but recommended she gets in asap as well) and she was fantastic. Not only were they able to get a reading without sedating her, the vet was able to do an exam too. Reading came back okay! So no big panic. She suggested doing a fullblood work which I agree, make sure everything else is working the way it should and she said once she has results back, we can discuss better insulin for Gem. She also recommended we start home testing (duh), unlike the previous bet that didn't even book a follow up apt with me....so grateful for vets that actually give a crap!

    And so thankful for the wonderful internet strangers helping me out, this is amazing you guys. I can take a deep breath now ❤️
    PS, ordered that feeder from Amazon! It looks like exactly the solution I need!
     
  22. Red & Rover (GA)

    Red & Rover (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Jen, you can get Lantus at any human pharmacy.
    You would want the box of 5 cartridges ($120).
    In Canada, humans need a prescription, cats do not. Just say it is for your cat.
     
  23. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    That's great news and so glad you liked the vet and seems like she knows what she is talking about.
    I'm happy that feeder will help you out while you are at work.
    Keep us posted ok, That face of Gem's is too adorable. That poor baby had a tough start, so happy you and your boyfriend took her in.:cat:
     
  24. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
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  25. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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  26. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    That’s wonderful news Jen! It’s a great feeling to trust your vet. It makes all the difference in the world!!

    Did they tell you what her BG was? And how many hours after her shot was it taken? I’d still be a bit cautious about giving her 5 units without home testing. It’s an extremely right dose to start with. Most cats are started at 1 unit just to give you an idea and go up from there. You might want to consider reducing the dose until you can home test her.
     
  27. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    The other variable here is that most cats get super stressed at the vet, just like Gem, and the BG reading at the vet will always be higher than at home. So if her BG was on the low side at the vet, I’d really would get her down to 1 unit until you’re up and running with testing :cat:

    tagging @JanetNJ who has experience with Vetsulin
     
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  28. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Hey everybody!

    Some great news once again. Gem's blood work came back looking really good, no issues anywhere else. Some blood in the urine sample so she may have a slight UTI again. The vet was able to do the antibiotics already via injection so I don't need to do any oral ones. Can't speak of this vet highly enough.

    She also agreed with what everyone is saying, I am so happy I decided to post and get that second opinion. So Gem is now on 1 unit of Lantus twice a day. She will be getting much more for little meals during the day as well. I have ordered that feeder and thankfully while I'm at work this week, the lady that is in the basement suite below us can feed her intermittently too as she is off work, and knows Gem and what's going on. We have a second apt booked for next week as a follow up to make sure everything is going well. What a relief! Oh, and she gave me some reading to do as well. What a difference in experiences....

    Oh! I believe she said she was at around 13 when they tested her? They took it again as I had given insulin at about 8am, the initial test was at 12, they took again at 3 and it had come up which the vet expected.
     
  29. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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  30. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

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    Dec 21, 2019
    Best news ever! I can’t tell you how happy and relieved I am to hear you’re switching to Lantus and starting at the right dose which is 1 :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    13 in a pet meter equals to about 234 which at the vet is on the low side so I have to guess she was going much lower with the Vetsulin around shot time. And the UTI may have been a god send as it may have helped keep her BG higher and away form hypo range! Anyway water under the bridge now because you’re on the right track with Gem and on the road to get her regulated soon!!!

    I’m very happy for you all :cat::cat::cat:
     
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  31. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Thank you! As am I ☺️ What told me right away this was a much more educated and caring vet is when she called the first time to discuss getting bloodwork and she and her tech were able to do an exam and get the BG level. First vet had to sedate Gem right away. This is the first time after getting our diagnosis I feel confident, much of which is owed to everyone here ❤️
     
  32. Aleluia Grugru & Minnie

    Aleluia Grugru & Minnie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2019
    I think it also makes a huge difference when you have the knowledge from members here and you go in already knowing what you should hear. Then the vet just reinforces what you already know and it’s easy to see they’re a good match for you and your sugar baby!

    Keep us posted on how agem does on Lantus and ask questions when you start to home testing her too! Lots of great tips like warming up the ear to make it easier for the droplet of blood to “pour” out, always giving a treat for positive association as I suggested for the shot too, and even singing to calm both of you down :)
     
  33. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Oh definitely! I felt way more prepared when the vet was talking to me, and I understood more what she was saying instead of just agreeing and thinking wait what, later on

    You betcha! I've been working on massaging her ears, and around meals and snacks, I'm tenting her skin but not injecting her so she gets used to the feeling without the prick. Lots of praise and good treats! She responds really well to that. That's also how we taught her to sit when my boyfriend and I were laid off with covid earlier in the year, haha.
     
  34. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Sep 21, 2018


    Here is a you tube video about the feeder
     
  35. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    @JenM92
    Hey Jen, I would also add a little water to the wet food so it doesn't get crusty,
    I don't use a feeder but if I don't add water to Tyler's wet pate he won't eat it, plus water is good for them, so I add water and stir it around , not soupy though
    He's a real pain in the butt
     
  36. JenM92

    JenM92 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2020
    Oh thanks that's a great idea!

    A cute pain in the butt I bet ;)
     
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  37. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    That guy's voice reminds me of:

    "Crucifixion? Good. Out of the door, line on the left, one cross each."


    Mogs
    .
     
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  38. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    So glad to hear you've found a better vetty bean, Jen. :)


    Mogs
    .
     
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