Newbie need dosing help with PZI-Prozinc

Hi all,

To make a long story short Nemo has been diabetic on and off for a couple of years. Each time his honeymoon would end I would have him regulated in no time, usually with Vetsulin. But now that Vetsulin was recalled my vet has him on PZI. In the three weeks she has had me increase his dosage from 1 unit twice a day up to 3 units twice a day. Each time I've done a curve (weekly) there has literally been no change in his BG numbers. Well now she wants me to increase him to 4 units twice a day which seems like a heck of a lot to me!!! He is acting ok, just drinking a lot of water. I'm taking him in today for an exam per my request not the vet's as I just think some is up. I'm getting a second opinion tomorrow from another vet.

Do you guys have any input? Does 4 units seem especially high to you all as well??

I tried my best to put together his spreadsheet and profile so hopefully it works!!!

Thanks in advance!!!
nailbite_smile I'm just super worried!!!

 

Hey there,

I'm getting the same error again when I try to access your SS:
"We're sorry, username@gmail.com does not have permission to access this spreadsheet."

Anyone else have this issue? Maybe you are working on it or something and it maybe blocks people from viewing when you are working on it? Strange.

Also just for cross posting purposes this was the other topic in Health:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6397

So you are giving twice per day which is good - when I was able to access your SS earlier it looks like maybe you were only giving once per day. Also it if I remember correctly it looked like your increases were larger - how big were your increases?

Hills M/D is above the 9-10% cab limit usually recommended here. Are you transitioning that out?

You've seen Janet & Binky's list right?
http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

How much Vetsulin were you giving?

I hope some others come along shortly with more input for you.

 

I just edited and made sure it's available for all to see now. Sorry about that!!

I am giving him his insulin twice a day. We started at 1unit twice a day and per my vet today are up to 4units twice a day. (We increased 1 unit per week) She said if this dosage doesn't have any effect than we'll switch to Lantus. But she said she didn't want to use Lantus since apparently that's only for cats who have never been on Lantus.

When he was on Vetsulin he was never on more than 2units twice a day.

I'm transitioning him off of the DM and MD (she even told me to do that today, which kind of made me chuckle). So now he will be eating a mixture of wet Wellness Grain Free and some dry Evo.

I'm hoping all of this works! I just took him in today and she ran a full blood panel and is checking for any UTIs. Luckily she should call tomorrow will all the results!!!

 

Unfortunately, the dry EVO will not be good for the BGs and DM. You are welcome to post in Health about the dry EVO but I know others have not had success with it.

You can read this about EVO - they say it is 7% carbs but this site had it tested and it is 13% carbs:
http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/diet.html
Others here feel that there is just something about dry food that is bad - something in the way it is processed or who knows but there is no known dry food that is compatible with the DM.

Also it appears you are not testing before each shot? You should be testing at least before every shot. Then you can run some curves too and spot checks. Is there any way you can get your once a week curves you have done into your SS?

Here is some reading on curves:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-curves.htm
http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-minicurve.htm

Also when you get the chance also enter in how much you dose at night - others might get confused like I did thinking you were only dosing once per day.

The general advice for beginners is the "start low go slow" approach. This mean starting out at .5u - 1u and increasing the dose in .25u-.5u increments.

How long have you been on ProZinc total now? A little over 1 week? From the very limited data in your SS it looks like maybe your kitty is starting to come down on 3u. Ideally you would like them to come down slowly. But you really don't have enough data to tell much and I know myself for one would really like to see those PS [pre shot] numbers day and night for every day plus some of the other hours.

Also I mentioned before that while you kitty is in the really high numbers you might want to be testing for ketones. Reading here:
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Ketones

Are you familiar with Smogyi rebound? Here's some reading on that:
http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi

There has been a little chatter of recent, far from anything definitive, about ProZinc potentially needing needing higher doses and I'm planning on following up on this tomorrow with the manufacturer.

I'm not a dosing pro so I'm not the best to be giving dosing advice. Things have been slow here this weekend I'm hoping others will be through here to offer more input for you.

 

The thing about dry food is that cats are obligate carnivores and they, unlike dogs, cannot turn grains/fillers/other crap found in dry food into usable energy. Urgh, I'm not a scientist but you can read about why dry food is bad here: http://www.catinfo.org/

That will give you a very good overview of WHY we say that kitties do best on LC canned food.

Welcome to the board! Gator has already given you some good links and asked some good questions. Please do read the link he provided for ketones, as this can be a rapid-onset health problem and kitties can develop DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) very quickly and if left untreated, it can be fatal. Not trying to freak you out, just letting you know how important this is.

Please do also try to get as many tests in as possible. It's the best way for you to feel comfortable with what's going on with your kitty and the best way to get data on which to base future dosing decisions. Knowing how your cat reacts to insulin is the most powerful tool you can arm yourself with during this process.

As Gator mentioned, this weekend has been slow but more people should be responding to your thread on Health, and you will get some more folks responding here in PZI, too.

Again, welcome, and don't be shy about posting any and all questions. Read, read, read!

 

Hi & welcome!!! I don't think I have anything to add to what has already been suggested, but I'll note what jumped out at me, hoping it is useful to get a second opinion, rather than being annoyingly repetitive! :lol:

- in your SS, you may want to note down the nighttime dose, otherwise you'll probably get repeated questions whether you are shooting once or twice a day

- it sounds like you may have some earlier or other data (curves?) - is it possible to add that to the SS?

- I'd agree to skip all dry food, even lower carb options, unless it's the only thing your kitty will eat

- switching to only LC canned could result in a dramatic drop in the #s, so keep an eye out for the #s coming down - I know when I give my cat some 12% carb canned food he really shoots up, so just be aware that you may see a big change, and this dose may be too much in that event - if you can make the change over several days for safety, that would be ideal