Nico broke his 300 streak!! 1/30: AMPS 407, +4 377

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Emily Tuomey, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  2. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Come on Nico! Come on down!
     
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  3. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Nope. I’m so frustrated I’m near tears tonight— I feel like somehow it’s my fault he isn’t getting better numbers. Nothing has changed except it’s the last tiny bit left in his original vile of insulin. But, according to some it isn’t necessarily “old” or diminished in potency. Necessarily. Do we need to start talking dose increase here? Or, wait even longer? This is cycle 7 of 2.25u now. What do you guys think? ..I do recognize that he is better than he was (red/black— now pink/yellow), but it seems a bit flat. He’s set for tonight, but would love to hear your input for tomorrow. Please, and thank you. :oops:
    @Shelley & Jess @JanetNJ
     
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  4. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  5. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Well, better then moving up. Speaking of things moving, any chance she’s constipated? My cats numbers get stuck when, eh hem, she is stuck. Lol
     
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  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you can monitor you could try 2.5 this morning
     
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  7. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Done and done. His AMPS was 397. He just isn’t moving.. super weird. Hopefully 2.5u will do it for him; I’ll keep an eye on him today.
     
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  8. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    AMPS, 397.
    +3, 361.
    +7, 290.
    PMPS, 393.
    +3, 271.
    +7, 134.

    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess @JanetNJ its bizarre how he isn’t moving, like at all, even with a dose increase to 2.5u this morning. Especially when he is usually my little Superball! With the new vial tonight should I dose 2.5u again, or 2.25u? I monitor pretty closely overnight if needed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2021
  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    2.5
     
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  10. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess @JanetNJ PMPS, 393. (So over this!!) 2.5u NEW VIAL of insulin shot. Fingers & paws all crossed— please illicit some response... ANY response!! — side note: how do I notate the new vial started on his spreadsheet? Wish us luck overnight!
     
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  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You could just write it in the comments column. This is a minor blip. Don't get worked up.
     
  12. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  13. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see the yellows and blues again!
     
  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Look at that nice low blue!!! Then the bounce. :arghh:

    I know it's frustrating Em, to see those bounces and wait for them to clear.
    Hang in there.
     
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  15. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    It’s been a long week. Just looking forward to getting some rest in this weekend. :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
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  16. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    My bouncy boy is back, it seems. A green overnight and pink this morning!

    +9: 59.
    AMPS: 357.
    +7, 92.
    +9: 160.
    PMPS: 506.

    @Shelley & Jess @Deb & Wink @JanetNJ just an update: I was planning on doing just a +7 for Nico today to let his little ear rest a bit between pre-shots, but his +7 was 92. And as he has a history of a late nadir I decided to get a +9 to make sure we are not still headed down; I don’t believe we will be, however. Time will tell. Hope y’all are enjoying your Saturday!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  17. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Oh Boy! :facepalm:

    I see that Nico got yet another green BG number this am, 1/23/21. Look for him to bounce again.
     
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  18. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Hey, after days and days of no movement one way or the other, I’ll take it!! :D
     
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  19. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see you can smile and joke about this Em.
     
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  20. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    There’s the bounce. PMPS, 506. :banghead: Although, his +4 was 252. I’m gonna keep a watchful eye on him tonight. Seems fast.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  21. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    He never did go low overnight, still bouncing.
    AMPS: 388.
    +6: 192.
    PMPS: 198.
    +3: 300.
    +10: 263.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  22. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    :oops: AMPS, 401.
    Straddling the edge today, I guess.. could tip either way tonight at this point. +6, 296.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2021
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  23. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Is Nico still playing ping-pong, practicing for the world championships?:(
     
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  24. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Indeed. BUT. We are headed in a downward trend at the moment, so I’m hopeful we are clearing it shortly. I think we just, unfortunately, we hit one right after the other and haven’t fully recovered. Fingers crossed!! PMPS, 234.
     
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  25. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    All paws crossed here for Nico.
    That PMPS of 234 is pretty nice!

    Stay low Nico old boy. Please. You'll feel better.
     
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  26. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    It is, but again I feel it could go either way.... only time will tell. I’ll test before bed, in the meantime — CUDDLES. :cat: Cuddles always help. upload_2021-1-25_19-56-41.jpeg Nope. Slooooooooow descent. +3, 212. :( Why all the yelllow..??? +10, 222.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  27. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    A string of flat yellows often means a bounce is clearing, you could be in for an active cycle today.

    Nadirs are often later in bounce breaking cycles.

    Have a look back at your PM 01/02, AM 01/04, AM 01/06 & AM 01/08 cycles when he wasn't in the middle of a bounce, or clearing a bounce - during 'good' cycles your lows/nadirs came in early in between +4 and +6.

    Fingers crossed for a good cycle today :)
     
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  28. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Starting the day with an AMPS of 314. We shall see... although I’m not feeling terribly optimistic.
    I’ll keep a watchful eye on him this afternoon. ;)
     
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  29. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Shelley & Jess CALLED IT. The return of the green with a late nadir. +8, 69. :cat: Happy dance (but prepared for an interesting evening, just in case)!!! @Deb & Wink @JanetNJ
     
  30. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Those nadirs can vary so much, and they don't always stay the same time from cycle to cycle. We wish they would.

    But it does help to look for patterns, and Shelley helped you by mentioning a few instances of some of Nico's past patterns.

    With such a bouncy cat, you have more than your share of "interesting evenings".

    I know you are using the more aggressive MPM dosing method, but you may want to think about shaving the dose just a tiny bit. Not a full 0.25U dose reduction, but a "skinny" 2.5U dose ( or you could think of it as a fat 2.25u dose). Your choice Em, since you are there and can observe Nico better than we can. Keep the dose the same if you want. Nico hasn't officially earned a dose reduction with the MPM method. But I bet he was close or even under 50 earlier than that 69 at +8.

    They sure do. Wish my former feral colony cat Dancer was a bit more "cuddly". At least she comes upstairs with me and sleeps on my bed for a while each night. You'd think after 10+ years of living with me, she'd be a little bit more snuggly. But nope. Life on her terms, and I take what I can get. :bighug:;):bighug:
     
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  31. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    :arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh::arghh:
    I can’t do it anymore.......!!! PMPS, 477. It’s infuriating. We get one good number then like twelve bad ones. Every.single.time.
    @Deb & Wink @Shelley & Jess @JanetNJ literally hitting the wall here tonight :banghead:
     
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  32. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Ok, the PMPS was high, the BG went sky high after that low green mid-day, but how was Nico feeling and acting?
    Did Nico get any food or treats when he dropped down to that low green?

    Brainstorming a bit here, of things you could try.
    1. Eliminate the Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein. I know it's supposed to be low in carbs, but maybe Nico is reacting negatively to it. The carb calculator I use says it's 7-8% carbs.
    2. Double check to make sure there is no "contraband" food that Nico might be getting to. From another pet, from someone else in the house sneaking him food, from anything left out on the counters of the kitchen or elsewhere, no food dropped on the floor, etc.
    3. Maker notes on which flavor of the FF you are feeding. Make notes on the SS of the + times when Nico gets fed. Trying to find patterns there.

    The only other idea I had is to try one of the depot type insulins, Lantus or Levemir. The gradual release of the insulin from the "depot" storage area under the skin could help to even out the BG levels.

    Please don't bash your head against the wall Em, because we wouldn't want to see you with a concussion.
     
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  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Bounce from the green
     
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  34. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink @JanetNJ (@Shelley & Jess too!) I appreciate you. Last night/yesterday was hard — and 100% me projecting — so when it came time for the evening routine I'd sorta had enough. I’m much better this morning (or today, I guess now I should say)! Clearly Nico is as well ;) I’ll try not to post when I’m having a freak out, and definitely no concussions needed. As far as how Nico is actually feeling and acting, he is his normal, goofy, cuddly self. Completely. His vet wants to give it until after his next curve in March to perhaps start Lantus instead. It was what was proposed right from the start, but after discussing options we decided to go with Prozinc because of its cost effectiveness, and if it wasn’t the right drug for him we could always switch. I think that’s a good timeline, see what happens between now and then.

    At +6 today he was 115, so I’m also going to test a +8 and maybe a +10. I want to keep an eye on that nadir for sure. I’ll post them here as they happen. Hope y’all are having a healthy, happy, and productive Wednesday! :cat:

    AMPS: 243.
    +6: 115.
    +8: 89.
    +10: 117.
    PMPS: 198.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
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  35. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Freak outs and frustrations are to be expected Em. Please go ahead and post when you just can't stand it anymore. We'll always listen. Always.:bighug:

    You are almost doing a curve yourself today. The only 2 times you didn't get a test were +2 and +4. Every bit of data helps to see what is going on. Including how Nico is feeling. We may focus on the BG numbers a lot here, but what else is going on is important too. The 5 P's and appetite are great clues.

    Wish you could come to my place and hang out for a while and chill. It's plenty cold enough with the snow we got today. Plus, the power went out here for a bit. No power, no heat, no internet. But I turned the heat up as soon as the power came back and charged my cell phone. P. I. T. B. not to have heat this time of year.

    So, are you expected a bounce by any chance?:p
     
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  36. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  37. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Then get some sleep.
     
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  38. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    That’s the plan. +3: 251.
     
  39. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Man alive, I cannot knock him outta the 3s today.. sheeshhhhh! AMPS: 311, +2: 333, +7 304. At least we are getting closer - haha!
     
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  40. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Nico is telling you to play the lottery with some combination of 3's on your ticket!;)
     
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  41. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    :joyful::joyful::joyful: Apparently so!
     
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  42. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    @Deb & Wink the streak hasn’t been broken yet.. 324 PMPS <shakes head> LOL

    @Deb & Wink UPDATE: We broke the streak!! +2.5 137 <happy dance>
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
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  43. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    That's too fast Em. Did you get another test?
     
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  44. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Just seeing this. He’s below 50 at the moment. +5, 40. He’s acting totally normal, but gave him some Temptations treats anyway. Gonna test again in a little bit, rinse/repeat, until he comes up some. Em’s gonna be one tired girl tomorrow.. Thinking this is definitely gonna earn him an immediate dose reduction (2.5u to 2.25u) for the am. I’ll keep you posted.
     
  45. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Grab a +5.5 please.
     
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  46. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Tested, but now it’s more like +6.5 as I posted a little after the fact before. 48 with treats given. Just gave him a few more. Do I need to test every half hour??
     
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  47. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Em, doesn't matter if he's acting totally normal or not. They can be fine one moment and seizing the next. Please don't take these lime greens lightly.

    You need to feed the 40's and test frequently until you see the BG rising to safe levels.

    Has he eaten any wet food?
     
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  48. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I don’t believe he’s eaten any wet food, but I can offer some now. His normal, or a gravy one? What levels am I looking for to indicate “safe??” Now I’m worried... :nailbiting:
     
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  49. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    A little LC to go with the temptations.
     
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  50. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Currently wolfing some gravy Friskies.
     
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  51. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    How much should I let him eat?
     
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  52. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Not too much an tsp or so. He's already had temptations.
     
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  53. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Okay well it’s a bit more than that (I’d say a tablespoon, maybe), so his next test should be markedly better.. How soon should I retest?
     
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  54. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Do another one 30 minutes from the last one, see where he's headed.
     
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  55. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    He'll be okay. And probably a little over carb'd now. Next time reach for the wet food first and test every 20 to 30 minutes until you see the numbers rising.

    Of extra concern here, that 40 came 'early' in the cycle, the insulin still hadn't reached it's peak.
     
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  56. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Right. That was my concern too. Next time a little less wet food— live and learn! He’s on his way up now, 82.
     
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  57. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    (PS. Why are you not sleeping right now?!!)
     
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  58. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    I'm asking myself that same question!
     
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  59. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Hahaha!! (Let it also be known, I’ll start a new thread tomorrow ;))
     
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  60. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    So assuming I should test again in like ten minutes. What number is high enough to try to catch at least an hour or two of sleep? — just in case I lose you to dreamland.
     
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  61. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Exciting night! And this is why we test. Nice catch, and yes, time for a dose Redick to 2.25
     
  62. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    He's over naidar now and heading back up.
     
  63. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    I will never say no to more tests. Let's see what kind of rise he's got going. Will be good information to refer back on to determine what/how much to feed next time. And then get some sleep :)
     
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  64. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Sleep is coming!! +7.5, 164.
     
  65. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Will reduce his dose in the morning. Crazy kid!
     
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  66. Shelley & Jess

    Shelley & Jess Member

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    Test (and feed if needed) every 20 minutes when in lime green numbers until you see the BG begin to rise to safe numbers. Then continue to test until you are satisfied Nico is out of danger - includes taking in to consideration where you are in the cycle and what you fed LC/MC/HC, wet or dry to bring those numbers up.
     
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  67. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Thank you for this. I’m not sure I know the difference between MC and HC, so I will have to do some research on those today— see what my options are. We are safely supremely high now so not to worry. AMPS, 407. And dose decreased to 2.25u.

    Hi-ho, hi-ho, it’s back to bed I go.. <whistles>
     
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  68. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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