Oliver, was seizing now up to 232

Cat has gone into seizures on us. Shot was at 8 am
Seizure started at 10:15
Gave honey
Settled down
Won’t eat
On low carb food only
Continuing honey and sugar water
has tested at
23
23
Low
No vet available at miles from any, heavy snow
What else can I do
Insulin is Lantus

 

Hi Shelley,

I've just put out a request for help in the Lantus group. (ETA - I've asked them to reply to you here.)

If seizing at the moment, wait till it passes then immediately give another teaspoon of honey. Rub on the gums. Test BG. Wait 15 minutes and test again.

Once you've administered honey, please answer these questions as soon as possible:

1. What is the current BG?

2. How many test strips do you have?

3. How many hours since last Lantus shot.

4. What is the current dose of Lantus?

5. How many cycles (12 hours) have you been giving the current dose (so we can gauge the size of the depot).

6. Do you have ANY high carb food or treats in the house?

*** I'll do what I can to help till someone more experienced responds (I've not dealt with a cat experiencing seizures.)


Mogs
.

 

Do you have syrup/karo? Rub it on her/his gums as well as trying to get her to eat it. Worst case, syrup can be applied rectally if you have a syringe you can do that with.

Can you break down the timing and amounts of honey/sugar water? Is the cat still seizing? How far apart were those tests?

 

Bump

 

I saw your post on FB, Shelley. Everyone, she is using an Alpha Trak, so the numbers are VERY low.

 

Thank you so much for helping. I just got acceptance to the group

 

@Wendy&Neko -

Thank you so much for responding, Wendy. Are you OK to lead on this? I can't see it through (plus I've never had to respond to a cat having seizures before).


Mogs
.

 

Thanks so much for letting us know. (I had been hoping it was a human meter.)


Mogs
.

 

I put the latest answers in critter mom. He has not seized for over a half hour now. We are giving honey and sugar water about every 10 minutes. He seems more comfortable

 

• How to treat HYPOS - THEY CAN KILL! Print this Out!!
• jojo and bunny's HYPO TOOL BOX

I've never had a cat seize, but the first post contains the details.

Thank goodness for no longer seizing. What is is latest test? And how long is that from the previous one.

 

With a cat in seizures, I would do as Wendy suggested and give karo, syrup, honey....anything like that rectally. Be careful and lube the syringe...don’t worry about how much you give.

When seizures stop, you can give it orally until the BG rises above 68 but keep testing because as the syrup wears off, the BG can come back down. He needs a vet as soon as you can get him to one even if he’s doing better. Symptomatic hypos can have lasting effects. Lantus low numbers can last a long time depending on the dose and what the preshot BG was. Any info you can give us while he’s stable is helpful.

Please do not give insulin tonight! Cats which have symptomatic hypos are often very sensitive to insulin.

 

Those tests were about a half hour apart. He is taking honey and sugar water well.

 

Do you have any "gravy lovers" type food or even kibble that he'll eat?

Please keep testing every 15-20 until he's at least above 68

 

Here are Shelley's answers:

***ALPHATRAK***

* Last reading 10 20 mins ago: 27 - +4 hours after dose admin

* Almost 1 week on current dose (size of dose not yet confirmed)

* Cat won't eat.


Mogs
.

 

If the cat won't eat, you need to rub the honey/syrup on his gums or cheeks if he will allow it. If not, you need a needless syringe with syrup/honey, lube it up with vaseline or something like that, and inject rectally.

 

How much insulin did you give?

 

Shelley, please can you test again ASAP.

If still below 68 give more honey then post the BG reading here as soon as possible after that so that members assisting you will be able to guide you better.


Mogs
.

 

Update on Oliver
With blood tests every half hour and lots of honey and sugar water he is going to right way
When had his first seizure we were giving honey and his Alpha trek reading was 23!
Every half hour:
23/LO/27/31 not out of the woods but he’s not seizing and his blood glucose is going the right direction.

 

Those are all really the same basic number so he's still in a lot of danger.

I understand he's not eating but have you got any "gravy lovers" or kibble food to try? We would usually be encouraging you to get him to an ER vet, especially since even with the Karo he's not coming up the way he should but understand you can't really get out due to the snow.

What dose did you give him this morning?

 

If he won't eat, rub honey on his gums or cheeks, he is way too low and needs to come up a lot yet. If you can't get the honey in his mouth, it has to go in the other end.

 

We did give him a bite of the gravy food left over from his prior life. Will try again. It made his nose wiggle.
3 units just like I have been all week. I’m so confused. He is never getting another shot without a test immediately

 

He is taking honey well. We have been rubbing it on his gums and placing a little under his tongue. You all are the best!

 

How long ago since the last test? How long since he last got honey/sugar syrup? Good to hear you can give that orally.

 

And do not dilute the honey with water.

 

If he'll eat more, let him have several teaspoons full

 

We aren’t, thank you!!

 

Maybe try to squeeze the gravy out of the food and see if Oliver will lick some of that - or if you have an oral syringe see if he'll take it that way. Syringe slowly from the side, across the tongue so it won't go down the wrong way.

Do you have any Temptations or Dreamies treats in the house? If yes, see if he'll take some of those (they're high carb).


Mogs
.

 

It's been half an hour since the last test result, could you test again? How is your kitty doing now?

 

He is at 31 I will test again in 5 minutes. Still giving sugar and honey. He is more alert. If I miss any of your posts I am really sorry!!! This message board is new to me.

 

OLIVER IS AT 69!! We will keep it up, what we’ve been doing. Thankful for you all.

 

Woot! Go Oliver!

Give him some more honey and test again in 30 minutes.

Shelley, please can you tell us what time you gave the Lantus shot and also what time zone you're in (so we can track how far along you are in the cycle).


Mogs
.

 

Hi Mogs I see Shelley said this #1

Cat has gone into seizures on us. Shot was at 8 am
Seizure started at 10:15

 

And, I am on pacific time.
3 units. Same dose as the whole last week.
He’s twitching about every 10 seconds.

 

T

The random twitch is new. Much gentler than the seizures, but what do you think. Continuing honey ...

 

So it's almost 2 PM by you is that correct
You gave lantus at 8AM
It's now 2 PM is this correct
@Shelley.Washington

 

@Wendy&Neko

@Chris & China (GA)

@Critter Mom

 

Yeah for 69! @Diane Tyler's Mom I am also on Pacific ST.

To recap - Shelley please correct any mistakes.

8:00 am - 3 units given (PST)
10:15 (or +2.2.5) - cat starts seizing
10:15 to now, tested at various times 20's and low 30's, honey given continuously
1:30 (+5.5) - blood sugar at 69

 

From facebook, you said you've been doing this a couple of weeks.... 3 units Lantus seems like a huge dose for him to be on after such a short period!

 

From going back through your posts in the group, it looks like your vet started you at 2U and just recently increased to 3U and you were feeding Hills m/d Gluco Support.

When did you start the 2U? When did you start the 3? Did you change his food (if so, when)

 

A favour to ask of all following - right now our focus is on getting the cat into good numbers (just done) and keeping him there (work in progress). With too many people posting other things, it's hard to focus. Dosing will come later, but as Marje said - no shot tonight.

Shelley, we need to you to test again in 1/2 hour, to make sure he's staying above 68. We'll figure out a strategy going forward once we know your kitty will stay safe.

 

This is correct
2 U the two weeks before but he was still running in the 400s
We switched off hills and started on Frisky pate a few days ago
Gonna go test be right back

 

Oh no. It’s down to 38 again. 1/2 hour between test. Will keep try to get some gravy in him. He takes the honey well. And we made a title sugar syrup that we can get in him
It’s 2:15 pacific right now

 

Back to rubbing honey in his mouth. Lantus hypos can go on for hours. Is there any way of getting to an emergency vet? This would really be better handled by a glucose drip at the vets.

You might also want to consider the honey in the back end. Please test again in 20-30 minutes after the next honey.

Updating the recap:
8:00 am - 3 units given (PST)
10:15 (or +2.2.5) - cat starts seizing
10:15 to now, tested at various times 20's and low 30's, honey given continuously
1:30 (+5.5) - blood sugar at 69
2:15 (+6.25) - back to 38

 

2:35 now 37. Cat is more alert and acting a little cranky. He is twitching every so often. (Head and front paw twitches)

 

Shelley we're all REALLY worried that this may not be able to be dealt with at home. Is it absolutely impossible to get him to an ER vet to be put on a glucose drip? We don't want you to risk your life if it's really dangerous on the roads, but we're all terribly concerned that he's taking so much work and still not really responding.

Do you have a needless syringe that you could use to put corn syrup/honey/pancake syrup directly into his rectum? We understand it sounds awful, but it could also save his life because you could get more into him at once and the glucose is picked up quickly from the intestinal tract to get into the bloodstream fast. And yes, it can be a mess....but again, it could save his life.

 

Ditto what Chris said. Could you at least call a vet, even an ER vet for suggestions?

Updating the recap:
8:00 am - 3 units given (PST)
10:15 (or +2.2.5) - cat starts seizing
10:15 to now, tested at various times 20's and low 30's, honey given continuously
1:30 (+5.5) - blood sugar at 69
2:15 (+6.25) - back to 38
2:35 (+6.5) - 37

 

3:05. Oliver is at 80 and starting to lick a little gravy when given.

 

Good job! Now you've still got to keep testing every half hour for a while yet. The honey can wear off and numbers drop back down as you've seen. How is your test strip supply? Has his twitching stopped?

Recap:
8:00 am - 3 units given (PST)
10:15 (or +2.2.5) - cat starts seizing
10:15 to now, tested at various times 20's and low 30's, honey given continuously
1:30 (+5.5) - blood sugar at 69
2:15 (+6.25) - back to 38
2:35 (+6.5) - 37
3:05 (+7) - 80 licking gravy

 

3:05 Oliver at 80 and showing interest in food.

Chris, sorry I just saw this one. We live on the equivalent of a one lane logging road way up high. We are are the beginning of a severe weather warning and we cannot. Take the risk. Even if we did get out I don’t know if we could get back. Our private road goes over 1000’ pretty straight up.

 

Tes
Test strip supply is just eyeballing it about 35 of them. Thankful

 

Totally understand but that means you need to be extra careful to always have lots of extra supplies in case something like this happens again. Several cans of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (the beef is the highest carb), a good supply of corn syrup/honey/pancake syrup, LOTS of extra strips (I usually got nervous if I dropped below 200 strips in the house) and get a few 5cc - 10cc syringes (no needle) just in case. Farm supply places usually carry a wide selection of different sized syringes without needles.

 

Thank goodness. Keep those numbers up, Oliver


Now a warning, cats can be super sensitive to insulin following a low hypo. Obviously no insulin tonight, and going forward is drop that dose Waaaaay Back. I'll let the lantus people give the specific dosing advice. You are doing a great job of saving his life.

 

Shelley

It would be helpful for you and the folks helping here if I got a spreadsheet up and running for Oliver. I need to send you a private message as I need just two things from you that we don’t post publicly. In just a few minutes, you’ll see a red “1” at the top right of this page by Inbox. Click on that and you’ll have a message from me.

 

3:05 Oliver at 80 and showing interest in food.

 

3:40 Oliver at 128 and showing interest in gravy. Do I still keep feeding gravy and honey?

 

Given how long it has taken to get Oliver up into safe numbers and his having dropped back so far before, I think you could keep going with the gravy and test again in 30 minutes. Also, since you can't get to a vet it would be no harm to have him be that little bit higher (more of a safety buffer in case he might drop back again).


Mogs
.

 

Try some gravy with the meat chunks too. It's that regular food that'll sustain him.

Recap:
8:00 am - 3 units given (PST)
10:15 (or +2.2.5) - cat starts seizing
10:15 to now, tested at various times 20's and low 30's, honey given continuously
1:30 (+5.5) - blood sugar at 69
2:15 (+6.25) - back to 38
2:35 (+6.5) - 37
3:05 (+7) - 80 licking gravy
3:40 (+7.5) - 128, showing interest in gravy

 

I've updated your subject line to include Oliver's name and the latest status. That allows people to see at a glance what it happening, and know that he's currently OK. It's only once we back off the gravy and honey and he sustains his numbers that we know he's out of the woods, so to speak.

 

Yes! He started accepting little chunks of meat. BG at 4:20 is 232.

 

Thanks so much for getting us through this you all!

 

The twitching can be seizure related so please continue to indicate on your updates whether that is still happening.

 

Awesome, great job today. You can put away the honey and gravy for now. And let's wait an hour to the next test. There still may be some of the honey goodness wearing off yet. It can take a couple hours for the carbs to wear off, in which case the numbers might drop a bit, but I doubt to a dangerous level. What you are seeing now is a bounce or reaction to those lows.

You might want to think about ordering more test strips, you've gone through a lot today. In more ways than one.

Once Marje has helped you get a spreadsheet together, we can talk about strategies for dosing tomorrow.

Recap:
8:00 am - 3 units given (PST)
10:15 (or +2.2.5) - cat starts seizing
10:15 to now, tested at various times 20's and low 30's, honey given continuously
1:30 (+5.5) - blood sugar at 69
2:15 (+6.25) - back to 38
2:35 (+6.5) - 37
3:05 (+7) - 80 licking gravy
3:40 (+7.5) - 128, showing interest in gravy
4:20 (+8.25) - 232

 

Spreadsheet is up and linked. When Shelley can take a breath, I’ll get some additional info from her and fill in the empty spots but at least today is up.

Great, great job, Shelley!!! And, of course, Wendy, Mogs, and others.

As a reminder.....when we have a situation like this going on, it is absolutely best for the caregiver to have one or two, at most, experienced members helping. That avoids repetitive posts and also allows the caregiver to focus on the kitty and testing/feeding. We truly appreciate everyone’s help but it’s important to keep the thread short for the sake of the kitty and the CG. Once the crisis is past, then it’s fine to express your relief and support.

Subject line updated. Thank you all very much.

 

Sir Oliver just scarfed a 1/4 of a big can of Paws Happy Life Turkey in gravy. He is curled in my lap he probably won’t like us taking his gravy, but that’s just means he’s getting better.

 

Wonderful job Shelley. I've been watching from the sidelines as you and Oliver were in very skilled hands.

 

No insulin tonight right? What should I do at 8 am when it’s normal shot time. I KNOW I’m not giving him 3U!

 

Good job all. Shelley, breathe now.

 

Right, none tonight.

Several of us are discussing what to suggest for tomorrow morning so we'll let you know when we've come to a decision

 

You're going to skip tonight and shoot at your usual AMPS tomorrow morning.

After the low numbers that Oliver experienced today, if he's like many cats who experience an episode of symptomatic hypoglycemia, he may be VERY sensitive to the effect of insulin. I doubt your nerves could withstand another episode of Oliver in low numbers.

In the meantime, do you think you can fill in some of Oliver's numbers from previous days on your spreadsheet?

 

I’m drained. I will for sure check it and fill in tomorrow, but at first glance I did not understand and I don’t have the brain power left to think any more...

 

Thank you so much.

 

Shelley and Oliver

I just wanted you to know how many of us were watching from the sidelines (as you got great support from the mods ) and thinking about you and Oliver today praying that he would be ok and have his BG come up. I’m so glad he did come up for you and is resting well.

An extra round of hugs

 

Forgot to add an important thing to your list!...a bottle of your favorite adult beverage for when it's all over!

 

I left you instructions on the SS with the PM I sent. As Sienne said, it would be really helpful if you could add in any data but if you will PM me tomorrow, I’ll help you. Take tonight to rest.

As Chris said, we’ve (we three moderators and Chris) been discussing tomorrow’s shot in the morning and, based on our experience with some other cats, the change in Oliver’s diet, the low number of strips you have, we believe you should skip the morning’s shot as well provided he’s never had any ketones.

If you have urine or blood ketone test strips, we’d suggest you test him. We are assuming he’s been healthy....no infections?? Is he on any antibiotics and, if so, what are they for? Is there a chance you can get out tomorrow for supplies? It’s unlikely you could get more AT strips but perhaps it’s possible to get a human meter and strips? I don’t know where you are but the Nova Max Plus only requires a 0.3 ml drop like the AT and also tests blood ketones but you have to have different strips. Many members use ReliOn meters from Walmart like the Prime or Premier; they require a 0.5 ml drop.

How is he doing? Have you tested him again? It’s a good idea to test him before you go to bed.

 

thank you!

 

Good morning, Shelley.

You did a sterling job working to get Oliver's numbers up last night. I've never been so pleased to see a cat's BG go over 200! I hope that Oliver is feeling OK today and that you had a good, restorative sleep for yourself because what you went through yesterday will have been incredibly draining. You must have been wiped out after the adrenaline surge passed.

Wishing you both a much better day today.

(((Shelley and Oliver)))


Mogs
.

 

Now THAT’S a good idea. Heh

 

Thank you so much for helping us. All of you.

 

I’m sorry, I just saw this. He has been healthy, yes, no infections. The last time I tested him was at 8:00 PM PT and he was still in the 200’s. Not sure if I reported that test or not. I was planning to test him at 8:00 am PT. It’s only 3:45 a.m. now, but I have a habit of waking when I’m supposed to be sleeping. . Will let you know in the morning what he reads, again, thanks for everything getting me through this emergency.
Shelley

 

I agree with "thebigfuzz". I think a lot of us were watching this post. Thank God Oliver is doing so much better. The "moderators" are life savers. They will help you with all of this. You did a great job, Shelley, in a very difficult situation! Prayers you never have to go through that again!

 

I have been watching from the sidelines as you got great support from the mods and Chris. I'm so happy Oliver is ok ♥
Great job Shelley

 

So is chocolate. And good ice cream!




Mogs
.

 

Shelley

How is Oliver doing today? Is he eating and acting normal? Is he still twitching and how much did he do so overnight, if any? Anything different about him today?

When you are up, please test his BG. I entered the +20 for last night on the SS for you. You can enter it in the “AMPS” column or message me and I will enter it for you.

Could we also ask, please, if you could start a new thread just as you did yesterday as this one has gotten quite long. Please entitle it something like “Oliver post hypo” as that will draw our attention. Once you have posted it, I’ll add a link in this thread to the new one.

As history for others reading the new thread, we always post a link to the previous one so in the first text box of the new thread, we would appreciate it if you could cut and paste all of this below:

Previous thread: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/oliver-was-seizing-now-up-to-232.242335/#post-2730585

 

So grateful for now that Oliver and Shelley are okay. I was watching and sending my prayers and continue to do so. Mogs so good to see your name, you did so much for me. So many scary moments but watching the way all of you moderators stayed calm and cool and continued to update each moment / action and reaction. Thank you all from me for being there for Shelley and Oliver. Shelley you did an amazing job

 

Thank you for your prayers and good wishes!! Oliver and his parents were lucky to learn about this group!

 

Thanks for starting a new thread.

To all following Oliver, the new thread for today is at https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/oliver-post-hypo.242378/#post-2730887

 

Nice to see a picture of your beautiful boy!