OT...IBD, slippery elm??

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Amy&TrixieCat

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I know I should post this over in health, but I also know my LL peeps just know everything "cat" so well that I can't help but stick in familiar territory. I hope that's OK...

I know some of you guys have used slippery elm to help your kitties with the puddin' poo. My civvie Zen has had digestive sensitivities all of his life (his littermate brothers, Noah and Petey, also have issues, but not nearly as badly as Zen does). In a nutshell, I think he needs a diet change - but, of course, he's a bit picky about what he eats, so that makes things all the more challenging. He'll only eat a tiny amount of wet food...not enough to "sustain life" :roll: - so that eliminates a lot of options for us - plus I can't sneak pumpkin in to his diet. I've tried the dry versions of limited/novelty ingredient diets, and he'll stick with them long enough to prove that they work for him, but then he decided he won't touch them anymore, which sends me back to square one. Right now he eats grain-free Orijen dry, and for a few years, removing the grain from his diet DID help, but he's back to having flairs of puddin' poo. I've tried spiking his food with FortiFlora and psyllium husk (both individually and at the same time), with no real luck. He's obviously sensitive to one of the "traditional" proteins, but I can't seem to get him on anything else. Oh, and fish-based foods do make him barf.

From the vetty perspective, we've had countless fecal tests done over the years and he's negative for parasites (and, he is indoor-only). Despite having the runs, he's a happy healthy cat...he eats very well, could actually use to lose a pound or two, doesn't barf, doesn't "meatloaf", doesn't act as if he's in any sort of discomfort, and is generally very VERY energetic and spunky. It's just this poo problem that I want to help him with. He's also had a few courses of metranidazole with no change, and at the same time that stuff traumatizes him - he gives us the dramatic foaming at the mouth reaction (the first time I gave it to him, I thought for sure we just poisoned him!!). For obvious reasons, I'd like to avoid prednisone like the plague, especially since he's not sickly from this issue. And, I'd like to take the most natural approach possible anyway.

I know some of you use slippery elm for runny poos...what's the story behind that? Does anyone have any other ideas? I swear, I'm almost ready to try some crappy supermarket brand of food, just to see if that helps. I actually have a customer at my store who says Purina is the only food that prevents her cat from having the runs....I'm not sure which would be worse - the runs, or a diet of Purina!

I appreciate an thoughts, ideas, insights....

Amy
 
I think marje is one who uses slippery elm bark I've never tried it. Have you tried a live probiotic rather than the Fortiflora? Check at a health food store or vitamin shop. Look for live culture (it should be in a refrigerator) and ask for one specifically for pets. I give one to Tess every day, it certainly doesn't hurt.
 
Hi Amy. Marjes husband Mike here. Marje is at work today, but I'll make sure she sees this and will get back to you this evening. For now, we have had a couple of cats with IBD/poop issues in the past and have had great success with the slippery elm. We give it to the current bunch occasionally too for upset stomachs. We get it from one of the local health foodd stores. It comes in a powder. You just mix it with water and give it in a syringe. It has a very mild taste, almost no taste at all, and we never have any trouble getting our guys to take it or have a "yuck" reaction to it. It seems to sooth and settle the digestive tract really well. (History Geek Alert: During the Revolutionary War, our soldiers used it during the winter at Valley Forge for nutrition and to treat the effects of dysentery. History Geek Alert) I think it would be worth a try. We also use the probiotics Ann was talking about. I'll have Marje get with you tonight.
 
Thanks Ann amd Mike! Now that you mention it, I have not tried a live probiotic with them, so I'll definitely pick one up. And thanks for sending Marje my way, Mike!

And...thanks for the history info! I love when a little interesting trivia can work it's way into any discussion :-D !
 
Hi Amy,

We use fortiflora with much success for runny poos in our household. The cats just love it and we do too :-D

We used Slippery Elm Bark to help with Ella's constipation and it seemed to work so I'd be curious to know how it works for runny poops.

Hope it clears up soon!
 
Boy, if slippery elm helps with constipation that's doubly-nice, since Frankie and Mario have constipation issues! Yes, in my house, I've got a diabetic, 3 with runny poos, and 2 with slo-mo poos. It's just a barrel of monkeys here sometimes :roll: !!
 
Hi Amy.
I have not tried slippery elm, so have nothing to add.
I'm just cheering from the sidelines for your cats to feel better and have more "normal" poos :-D
 
My sister has an IBD kitty. Her cat was a kibble addict and did well on the Hill's product. She's recently seen the light and transitioned her cat to a novel protein, canned food diet. One of the foods her likewise picky cat will eat is Hill's DD. Much to my amazement, venison is the first ingredient and there's not an animal by-product in the can. The dry versions (in rabbit and venison) are also by-product free but the first ingredients are peas. These are prescription diets for skin problems but the ingredients are fine for an IBD cat.
 
It HAS been a while since I've tried canned novelty proteins with Zen, and my local high-end pet food store does have a number of varieties. I'll have to buy a few small cans and see if he's had a change of heart about canned food. We've tried several times to convert our kibble addicts over...we tried all of Dr Lisa's tips and tricks, and then some. The final verdict: these cats would rather starve to death than touch a reasonable amount of that stuff! It was crazy. Naturally, I'm kicking myself for not starting them off on canned food when they were babies....hindsight and all that jazz. I'm glad that Trixie is so receptive to canned...
 
Dearest Amy!!

Sorry I didn't get here last night as Mike promised. Long day at work and I could barely keep my eyes open after dinner.

We've used SEB for many years. It coats and soothes the intestines so it works for constipation and liquipoo. The caveat is it needs to be given one hour before or two hours after any meds. While it is not know for certain that it could inhibit total absorption of meds, it's best not to push it. Especially with meds like pepcid AC. You can give up to 5mls bid. As Mike said, we make it up and then just use a syringe to administer it. I make the gruel...recipe below but you can also sprinkly the powder directly on food if any of your kitties don't like the syringe method. It is supposed to be tasteless...I've tasted the gruel and it was. Not sure about the powder. Just be sure you get it a health food store and you buy the loose powder and inquire as to its purity.

If you want to make the gruel, dissolve 1 tsp of SEB powder in 1/2 cup pure water (spring or bottled). Warm very gently in glass or porcelain pan until just a little thick (less than 5 mins and do not boil). It thickens more once it cools. Store in the frig in a glass jar. You can double the recipe if you are giving it to alot of cats. It's good for about 4-5 days in the frig.

I hope it works!!!
 
It's so interesting that it works for both liquipoo and constipation.

Marje, in regards to the meds, would that include insulin? Or just oral medications?
 
Reagan....just oral meds not insulin. The oral meds are absorbed into the bloodstream through the digestive tract. Insulin is delivered in a different manner (see Libby's post on the insulin depot which explains lantus vs levemir insulin depots).

Great question!!!
 
Thank you SO much for the info, Marje! Zen is not a fan of being syringed, so I'm going to attempted sprinkling the powder first and see how that goes. I'll keep the gruel recipe on hand, though. Fortunately, at this point, he's not on any other meds.

I hope this one helps him, at least a little! So far, nothing else has done the trick, at least not permanently.
 
I will let you know!

One other question...didn't think of it last night, of course. Since I'm just going to try sprinkling first, do you know how much powder should I use per meal?
 
Science nerd alert (and I have Friday Brain, so I hope I didn't make a mistake)

1 teasp SEB in 1/2 cup H2O = 1 teasp in 24 teasp H2O, and 1 teasp = 5 mL dissolved SEB (the recommended dose), there is about 1/3 of 1/8 teasp dried SEB in that 5 mL dose (trying to put this in terms of measuring spoons you may have on hand)

MJ
 
MJ+Donovan said:
Science nerd alert (and I have Friday Brain, so I hope I didn't make a mistake)

1 teasp SEB in 1/2 cup H2O = 1 teasp in 24 teasp H2O, and 1 teasp = 5 mL dissolved SEB (the recommended dose), there is about 1/3 of 1/8 teasp dried SEB in that 5 mL dose (trying to put this in terms of measuring spoons you may have on hand)

MJ


Thank goodness for the Science and Math Nerds!! We luv ya.

So basically a teeny weeny pinch.
 
Teeny weeny pinch...got it! Yes, thank you science folks :lol: !!! Believe it or not, I actually have a degree in math, but no longer have the attention span for such calculations. Give me beads any day!!!
 
I'm glad MJ got to you on this, Amy. I've been swamped all day and am just getting on the board for a few.

She did the math...I was just going to say a sprinkle :lol: :lol: You can always do a little more if the sprinkle doesn't help but better to start low and increase as needed.
 
Some of you may or may not know I have a new FD foster that has just been "diagnosed" (everything else was ruled out) with IBD. Here is the interesting part for me, I have had a colon resection myself and a lot of what I am reading in LL about IBD in cats and what I have seen with Tidus I can really relate too as a human. Sorry if it's too much information. I'm just wondering...is the liquid poo/pudding poo "bad" or is it something we as humans just don't want to see?

Personally I have changed my diet significantly added probiotics and digestive enzymes to my own routine and that has worked wonders so I can imagine it's similar for cats.

Is the SEB something they need to be on forever or just with "flare ups"? My vet said I should get Zantac 75 1/8 pill twice a day for Tidus however I am not a fan of OTC meds. Any other options? I did get the EVO Venison 95% (he's on W/D with stella and chewy's now but I'm not happy with the W/D so I want to transition him off that)
 
miso00 said:
I'm just wondering...is the liquid poo/pudding poo "bad" or is it something we as humans just don't want to see?

This actually is an interesting question. We've been battling it for many, many years with Zen and his two (blood-related) siblings. Overall, their health is perfect, but they've got the liquipoos - especially Zen. I just wonder if it causes wear and tear on their digestive tract. I don't know if it does or not...it's just a thought. Like I said above, he shows no signs of discomfort, eats like a champ, doesn't barf, is highly energetic, is basically a fabulously happy cat. And, to be honest, the liquipoos seem far less distressing to Zen than the constipation seems to Frankie and Mario.

More than anything, I'd love my entire herd of cats to have normal poos, so I could just stop thinking about, worrying about, and talking about cat poo :roll: :lol: !
 
Don't let me interrupt all the poo talk, but has anybody ever figured out the carbs in SEB?

Probably different in every batch?

I swear by it, but the really mild sweet Slippery Elm Bark powder I got from iherb smells/tastes like a hint of maple syrup. So it surly must have some sap in it.

Wonder if it is safe for OTJ sugar cats?
 
from http://www.livestrong.com/article/331083-nutritional-value-of-slippery-elm/
One typical supplement dosage can contain approximattely 1,480 mg slippery elm, with 5 calories, 1 g of carbohydrates providing 1 percent of the Daily Value, and 1 g of fiber providing 3 percent of the DV.

Allegedly that's about 4 capsules' worth. I mixed this stuff up once, but can't recall how many capsules it took to get 1 teaspoon. Maybe it was around 4-5 or so? Since my quick calculations showed each kitty dose is about 1/3 of 1/8 teaspoon, I'd say the carb content is negligible.

MJ
 
from human pathophysiology (just taken this quarter), which may be similar to feline, in this instance:

metabolic acidosis may result from the passage of loose watery stools (this is different from ketoacidosis due to diabetes)
hypovolemia - overall reduced hydration
low potassium
 
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