Our first YELLOW since diagnosis (Nico, ma-suga-butt)

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Emily Tuomey, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  2. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Bounces only go UP, but the lower than "usual" number could be the cause of a bounce!

    By the time we get our cat's diagnosed, they've usually already been diabetic for quite some time (and if we were non-human, we probably would have caught the signs faster) so even through dropping into 200's is by no means "too low", his body has had time to get used to living in the 400's and higher....so even though 200's aren't in any way dangerous, they still feel "wrong" to his body so it reacts by releasing stored sugars and hormones to bring it back up quickly.

    Don't worry....this too shall pass
     
  3. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    So his PMPS was 437, how can you tell if it’s a bounce? Just with time?
     
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  4. Chris & China (GA)

    Chris & China (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It really doesn't matter if the higher number at Pre-Shot is a bounce number or just an indicator that the dose isn't quite right yet but generally, any time they drop into numbers they haven't been in for a long time, they are going to bounce. I wouldn't be surprised if the next test you get tonight is even higher than the 437

    Hopefully, as they spend more time in lower numbers, their body will get used to being there and the bounces won't be as high and will clear faster.
     
  5. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    His +3 tonight was 421, so not higher but also not markedly less. Thoughts?
     
  6. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    AMPS 419. The first time we’ve seen a red number for a pre-shot test. Trying not to get too excited, but optimistic that we are getting closer to a more effective dosing and better health for my sweet boy. That being said, I know we are far from there but it’s a relief to have him out of the blacks. Fingers crossed it continues to go down from here. What are our thoughts today?

    ps Grateful to each and every one of you; thank you for keeping us afloat during this difficult health journey! :p
     
  7. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Back to red. +6, 454. Damn.
     
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I want to nominate the opening post of this thread for Blood Glucose Reading of the Year.

    :D


    Mogs
    .
     
  9. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Awe Mogs, so sweet! I’ll let Nico know ;):joyful: I’m trying not to be discouraged by his higher number this afternoon. We shall see how he does this evening..
     
  10. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you did the link to your old thread just fine. That way, people that may not be too familiar with you and Nico can see some past history.
     
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  11. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Gotcha. Thank you.
     
  12. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Nico is really skittish tonight, every little noise or movement bothers him. I haven’t tested yet (soon!) this evening but he was mid 400s in the afternoon. Could this be a high bg thing? Or just anxiety? I’m worried this evenings testing and insulin will traumatize him (though I know it’s necessary). But, I guess on the flip side maybe it’ll help him to feel better?
     
  13. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I’m beginning to feel like an Amy Winehouse song.....

    upload_2020-11-16_19-18-53.png

    PMPS 535 :blackeye:
     
  14. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Can anyone help me out? I feel like I’m second guessing Nico’s insulin injections, whether they’re actually going into his body versus his hair, because his numbers don’t reflect what I anticipated with a dose increase. Maybe that’s “normal” in sugarbabies though? It’s not wet or have a scent after his BID injections and I honestly think they’re going in but his body isn’t reflecting that. Am I doing something wrong?? Help, experience please!!
     
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  15. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    His numbers come down after injection most of the time. If it was a fur shot you would feel it wet in him. Patience.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  16. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Where on his body are you injecting Nico?
     
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  17. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Kinda between his shoulder blades, but just a bit lower. Is there a better spot?


    So this is potentially a totally “normal” or typical response? I’ve only had two (and not since early on) that there was definite wetness. I feel like I’m getting a bit paranoid — I just don’t see and SS’s like Nico’s... he’s like 80% black with all these little blips of other colors. I truly feel like every time I test him I have zero idea what the number, or even range, will be.
     
  18. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Some cats react better to the insulin if it's injected into the flanks. There have been anecdotal reports of the insulin not being absorbed as well when injected in the "scruff" or shoulder blade area. On the other hand, plenty of people inject the insulin in the scruff with no problems.

    I'm copying this information from the Health Links Index sticky, specifically from Marje and Gracie's Testing and Shooting Tips

    Shooting
    We all have our own techniques for shooting but just a few thoughts and others may bring some of their ideas in as well.
    • Injection sites:
    You can shoot the scruff, side of chest, side of belly, side of flank....wherever your kitty is comfortable and you have the least chance of doing a fur shot.

    [​IMG]
    • Site Rotation
    It's actually a great idea to rotate sites in order to prevent development of a lipoma or scar tissue. A lipoma is just a thickened area of fatty cells right under the skin. If you shoot in the same place repeatedly and your kitty develops one, they often will go away on their own if you switch to another site. However, if you change injection sites every day (if possible), there is a much decreased chance in developing either a lipoma or scar tissue. Both of these can affect absorption negatively. If your cat prefers scruff shots only, you can shoot one side in the morning and the other side at night; you can also move the scruff site so the first day, you shoot at the inner scruff on one side, the next day, the middle scruff, and the third day, the outer part of the scruff. Or, if kitty is tolerant of any injection sites, you can shoot one side in the mornings and shoot the scruff the first day, the chest the next, the flank the third day. In the evenings, you can shoot the other side of the kitty but in the same order.
    • Absorption Rates
    Theoretically, shots absorb slower when given in the scruff area as opposed to the chest, belly, or flank. This does not mean the BG numbers will be different. It just affects the absorption rate....faster or slower. But, ECID and you can keep track of where you shoot and see if the absorption rates vary for your kitty depending on shot site.
     
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  19. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    We are back to 600+HI tonight and I don’t know what to do for him. I don’t know what it means to have him keep having such high readings. I don’t see any other SS’s like Nico’s. I feel like it’s operator error. I reread the entire ReliOn Prime manual just now and am doing it correctly, but he can’t possibly be unreadable nearly always. He’s eating now then 2.5u. I just feel like that won’t help him. I may try to get a bunch of readings tonight/tomorrow, but that means little sleep. I just don’t know what else to do. What can I do???!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
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  20. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I shot just below his shoulder blades tonight, but can try his flank tomorrow morning. I’m really emotional about stuff tonight. Feel like I’m failing him.
     
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  21. Little Bit’s Mom

    Little Bit’s Mom Member

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    I know how you feel, but you are doing a great job for sweet Nico! Keep going and things will get better. We are all here for you to support you through this. It takes a lot of patience. Sending you and Nico hugs.
     
  22. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Awwww (((Em))) you arent failing him youre LEARNING him. This disease is insidious everyone has a personal learning curve, depending on their own unique situation. ITS GOING TO BE OK :bighug:
    jeanne
     
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  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You don’t need To stay up at night. If you want a little more readings I’d do preshots, an am +5, am +7, and a before bed. That really All you need. Let’s give this another day then we can discuss if he needs another increase. I told you last week I don’t think You are going to see much movement before 3-4 units. He needs what he needs.

    you can only control what you can. You can’t control What his pancreas does. And who knows, there might be other things at play. My cat has a high dose condition called acromegaly. She got up to 12.5 units before I could start reducing.
     
  24. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    I didn’t end up staying up last night, decided to just let it be. However, I was up using the bathroom around 2am, so got a reading then. Red. Which at least lower than black...

    Okay. I’ll try to be patient today.
     
  25. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    *** +5, 287 ***
    *************

    upload_2020-11-18_12-34-43.png
     
  26. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    lol celebrate those victories!
     
  27. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    And remember them tonight when it goes back into the black...!
     
  28. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Youre gathering data. Its all for the good.

    KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT!
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  29. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Think it’s time we talk dose (for tomorrow?). He was at 505 at +9– he’s gonna be struggling by 7p for his PMPS. We had a really good day though, and he reacted more favorably to the flank injection this morning, so think I will continue with that (alternating sides), at least for now. Maybe it was absorbed better too?? Anyway.. Hope y’all had a great day!
     
  30. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Would you please make notes on the SS, to say what times Nico is being fed? Putting in the times in the + hour format, for both AM and PM, over in the Remarks column can be helpful.

    I think you need to increase the dose again. Up to 2.75U at least for tomorrow.
     
  31. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I’d say just go right for 3.
     
  32. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    3.0u it is!
     
  33. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Does it look better now? I just put it after AMPS/PMPS. 7a/7p PST. Always the same. Hopefully that helps!
     
  34. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Did you get a chance to catch a +5-6?
     
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  35. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Grabbing a +6 here in a few minutes. I’ll report back as soon as I do!
     
  36. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    +6 330 Thoughts?
     
  37. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Update: +9 was 498. Probable he will be 600+ by his PMPS. But, I have to just let his body adjust. Thanks for your help. :)
     
  38. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Hey that's not too bad relative to the preshot. :D
     
  39. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    TRUTH. Now how do I get him to stay there longer..?! upload_2020-11-19_16-32-15.png
     
  40. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    wish I knew. But let's see what happens over the next few days.
     
  41. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Okay. Will plan to hold at 3.0u and see what his body does with it. Are tests at like +5/+7 or +6/+8 best still? Or more often? I’ll keep posting, so if more are necessary just let me know. I’m working from home (because of covid), so I can literally test whenever. He’s used to my antics now — haha!
     
  42. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see a 5 or 6
     
  43. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Yesterday we did a +5, today we did a +6. Or do you mean back to back? Or at night? Or all of the above?
     
  44. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    A 5 or a 6. No need for back to back. I think he peeks earlier than 7. Our you could do a 5 then a 7.
     
  45. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Okay will aim for a +5 and +7 tomorrow at 3.0u (7am). What about a +4? Not sure I’ve captured that hour yet.. I think +2 or +3 don’t really show much change either. Let me know.
     
  46. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Prozinc usually starts to onset around +2. So you might not see much difference then. But ECID (Every Cat is Different).

    The +2 compared to the pre-shot test can give you an idea of where the cycle is headed though.

    Getting some random tests during the cycle helps to fill in the blank spots on the SS. Like filling in books (your mid-cycle tests) between the bookends (pre-shots being the bookends). So mix it up a bit.

    A +5 and/or a +7 helps you to find the nadir (the low) for your cat Nico. It varies from cycle to cycle too, so it may not always be at +5 in any particular 12 hour period. Some cats nadir earlier. Wink was around +3 to +4, but he was on a different insulin.
     
  47. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Interesting. Thank you. What about overnight? Is that not as important as daytime?
     
  48. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Go to SLEEP overnight. Lol. The only time I test overnight (other than a before bed test) is if she's running low. You've got to take care of yourself, too.
     
  49. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    HAPPY NEWS TO REPORT THIS MORNING!! Nico was 461 AM PRE-SHOT!!!! I’m so excited for him! He’s alwayyyys 600+— such big steps forward for him. And, he now purrs during BG testing and not even a flinch for his injections. My sweet boy is a diabetes ROCKSTAR ❤️❤️❤️ Love him so!!! I’ll grab a +5 and +7 today from him for you guys as well. Happy Friday! upload_2020-11-20_7-51-45.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  50. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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  51. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  52. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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  53. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Don't be surprised if she's high later just because she isnt used to these yellow numbers and may bounce. But we are seeing A little progress no.
     
  54. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Yes, getting some tests overnight can be helpful. BUT right now Nico is in such high BG ranges, you won't see much help from staying up late to test, or setting an alarm to wake you to get a test in the PM cycle.

    As Janet said, taking care of yourself is important too. You need to keep YOU healthy, so you can keep helping Nico.

    When you start to see some blues (or some greens), then a test or two more in the PM cycle will be helpful.
     
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  55. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Yes, progress for sure. But I’m also pretty sure he’ll be back into the red, if not black, by PMPS (~1.75hrs from now). I’ll keep y’all posted. <<fingers and paws crossed>>
     
  56. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Thank you for this. (And Janet as well!) I’m still learning all the ins and outs of this, and I guess it’s all subject to change — on a dime — too. I’m sure it’ll be awhile until he starts to get consistent blues and/or greens, so sleep it is. I think tomorrow I want to get a +4 and a +6 to see where he lands there. We did a +5 and a +7 today. He’s so funny, he’s started to absolutely love it. Purrs and nuzzles his head in my arm, then when I say “all done, bug” he leaps off my lap and waits patiently for his “poke treats.” Sweet boy. :cat:
     
  57. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    You've got him trained already! Or perhaps, it's the other way around, that Nico has YOU trained to give him some treats after the ear pokes. Whatever the case, it's good that he lets you test him.
     
  58. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Hahaha probably a little bit of both— but I’m happy to give him a few low carb kibble for good behavior and job well done. No one likes to be poked, especially several times per day. He and I are poke buddies now (I am on an injection at home medication as well— for autoimmune disease), I think we both enjoy our special snuggles, and his sister is extremely jealous, she frequently gives us the side eye from across the room. Haha! But, I’m thankful it isn’t her who needs daily pokes. I’m pretty sure she’d have absolutely none of that! Wish us luck: PMPS time...
     
  59. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    Unfortunately not great news to report back. 600+ for PMPS. 3.0u Prozinc given. :oops: I’m trying to be patient, but it’s hard coming off of a good day. :blackeye:
     
  60. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    But wow look at that drop just three hours later! Look at it in comparison to the other pm +3's that have always been red!!
     
  61. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    So still hopeful? He’s back to 600+ for AMPS. 3.0u given. I guess we shall see where he lands at +4 & +6 today. Thoughts on the trajectory for a dose increase?
     
  62. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm good with another increase.
     
  63. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    3.5u tonight it is! I’ll let you know what his numbers are today :rolleyes:
     
  64. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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  65. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Good.
     
  66. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    +6 321 (still good, but he’s gonna be hurting by PMPS. Still on for 3.5u tonight, then see how that goes for a few days.)
     
  67. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Good luck!!
     
  68. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Me too.
     
  69. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    We’re gonna need it!
     
  70. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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    THANK YOU, BOTH OF YOU!!!
     
  71. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Emily, would you please start a new thread? This one is up to 70+ replies, and we like to keep them at 50 when we can. Makes the message board run better.

    Thanks. Please link this thread into your new thread also.
     
  72. Emily Tuomey

    Emily Tuomey Member

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