Pantera needs your help

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Mycatloveseveryone, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. Mycatloveseveryone

    Mycatloveseveryone New Member

    Jul 31, 2019
    Hi guys! I've posted before in some other forums, but I was told to check out this forum in order to help lower my cat's BG numbers and try to get him into remission.

    Cat's name: Pantera

    Age: Pantera was a street cat before he was taken into my apartment. Before he was taken in, he had been neutered and was most likely given a round of shots. From my best guess, Pantera is an older cat, possibly around 12 years old or older. I've had him living as an inside/outside cat for a few years, and then now he is totally an inside cat now for the past few years, but he still likes to take walks outside on his leash. He is a very good boy for doing so! He is starting to develop some grey hairs and has some potential arthritis and minor issues with one of his hips, but since he has lost weight from his official diabetic diagnosis, his arthritis has gotten much more manageable and has decreased immensely.

    Symptoms: Pantera started showing signs that something was different with him around summer 2019. He started losing a lot of weight rapidly and would like to go to different places of the house to hide because he wasn't feeling well. Pantera went to the vet and was tested, and his initial BG was in the mid 300s (around 350). After this initial BG, the vet wanted to put him on Vetsulin. However, after doing more research about how many more cats seemingly go into remission using Prozinc, Pantera was given Prozinc instead from his very first dose of insulin. After taking his insulin every day, he seems better, but Pantera's numbers really fluctuate from week to week, and I am trying to get his numbers to stabilize and to eventually decrease to a normal insulin level.

    Other health concerns: While being tested for diabetes, Pantera was also found to be FIV-positive. Being FIV-positive, he is prone to immune issues and infections. The vet also determined that Pantera might be fighting off constant infections in his gums and teeth, which might be raising his BG numbers. The only way to help these teeth problems, the vet said, was through surgery. Even though Pantera doesn't have too many teeth left, I do not want to go through with a surgery because of potential surgery complications (especially since Pantera is FIV-positive) and because of his age. Instead, Pantera was given a round of antibiotics for his teeth/gum infections, as well as antibiotic ear drops to heal any ear infections. Though these medications helped Pantera feel better initially, some forms of infections have come back time to time and have been treated at home.

    Food: Before being diagnosed, Pantera was a 17 pound cat and ate throughout the day - wet food approximately 2-3 times per day and dry food always out. Now that he is diabetic, Pantera is given wet food twice a day right before his insulin shot. The vet suggested that this is the best way to help stabilize his BG numbers. After trying out various different low carb foods and reading various posts and threads about what food is the best for diabetic cats, as of right now, Pantera is eating Fancy Feast Pates twice a day. He is given either one or one and a half cans of the pate meals. After being on this diet for a few months, Pantera is now down to approximately 14 pounds, which seems to be a healthy weight for him (he is a very large domestic cat!).

    Prozinc dosing: Pantera started off with 3 units of Prozinc. Right now, he is at 3.50 units of Prozinc. I don't want to increase his dose so that he gets more dependent on higher doses, but the vet wants to continue to increase his dose and bump up the dosage to 4 units. I am hesitant, and since Pantera's BG numbers sometimes bounce around a bit, I'd rather not try to increase his dose just yet. However, Pantera's BG numbers are still very high throughout the day. For example, he is usually in the 500-600s right before he gets his shot and at his lowest, he's usually around the 300s. However, he has tested lower at times (within the 300s right before his shot or in the 200s a few hours after his shot). I know this is not considered "low," but I don't want him too low because even though I have a pet camera at home to monitor him, my work prohibits me to be at home for long spans of time to be there if he needs some food in the middle of the day.

    Any suggestions would be much appreciated. What should I do? Should I continue with this dosage amount and/or feeding him Fancy Feast twice a day?

    Thank you for reading!
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  2. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

    Feb 28, 2012
    Hello, it's been a while since you last posted. Do you have any blood sugar test data for 2020? If you could put in even the last two weeks worth of data on your spreadsheet, it'll help us help you. It sounds like his numbers are high all the time. Ideally you'd like him to spend more time under renal threshold, which is less damaging on his kidneys. 300's and 400's are too high.

    Others have suggested you get an automated feeder to feed Pantera when you are work. That's how you can keep him safe when you are away. You don't need to feed just at shot time. Multiple small meals in the first half of the cycle are fine. Learning when his nadir or low times are will help you know what time the auto feeder should open to give him food. Food is how he can bring up his numbers and keep him safe. The Fancy Feast pates are fine.
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  3. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Jun 8, 2016
    It's hard to give dosing advice without recent numbers. I suspect the high numbers may have more to do with a painful mouth rather than too low of a dose. He might never be able to be regulated well while he's got infections coming and going. I know you are worried about having a dental done, but perhaps see about putting him on antibiotics prior to surgery. He's only 12 and could potentially live many more years. You don't want him to be in dental pain for 5-8 more years! My cat is 16 and had a dental for the past three years. I think if the dental is done you'll see the dose and numbers come down.

    Food. So the rule of thumb is about 20 calories per pound. So if 14 is a good weight you'll want to feed at least 3 cans per day. Two is not enough to maintain that weight. Most ff classic flavors are about 90-95 calories each depending on the flavor. If he's unregulated you may need to feed even more of he continues to lose weight (3.5-4 cans) because unregulated diabetic cats are not able to utilize the nutrients properly and so they are literally starving even though they are eating in no need to only feed twice a day, just no food 2 hours prior to the preshot test. Ff is a good choice.

    ProZinc can last up to 14 hours ago is possible that those lower preshots are just because the last dose hasn't worn off. A preshot over 300 is not one that you should lower a dose over. You want to work toward getting that nadir DOWN into the hundreds.

    I know it's scary when you are at work, but you'll have more peace of mind if you get mid cycle tests when you are home. Can you fill in more info on that spreadsheet?
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
    Deb & Wink likes this.
  4. Mycatloveseveryone

    Mycatloveseveryone New Member

    Jul 31, 2019
    I updated the spreadsheet. Thank you Wendy&Neko, JanetNJ and Deb & Wink for your feedback.
    JanetNJ likes this.
  5. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2013
    The W/d dry food is very high in carbs. Are you still feeding that food?

    Pre-shot BG (blood glucose) tests are very important. You want to always get that pre-shot test, both AM and PM. That test will tell you if the BG (blood glucose) is high enough to give Pantera his insulin.

    Then you need some tests in the middle of the cycle, to find when the nadir is.

    You need to test both AM and PM cycles. Many people get a "before bed test" every night.

    Your cat needs more insulin. Those high blood glucose levels are not good for him. You want to see a nadir in the blue or the green range on the SS (spreadsheet).
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020

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