Porky's vet visit this morning - questions?

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Jennifer and Porky

Jennifer and Porky

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Hello, everyone in Lantus Land!

I've missed posting about Porky, every day, but since he went to the vet for a check up this morning, I thought I'd post about it.

Good news....and disturbing news - more on that in a sec. Porky is doing great - his weight today was 19.3 lbs. Now, 3 weeks ago, he weighed 18.5 - but now I'm wondering if that was a valid number, since he was around 20 lbs. before his pancreatitis/diabetes diagnosis. I'm more inclined to believe today's number. I've been feeding Porky around 3 3-oz cans a day - that should be around 270 calories or so, which is recommended for him to lose weight (Porky should be around 15 pounds).

His ears look good - and his temp was normal.

Now for the disturbing news....my vet took Porky to the back so that they could do a hand-scale on his teeth. When she came back, she told me that they gave him some antibiotics and some oral metacam. I thought that sounded familiar, but couldn't remember why. I did some poking around when I got to work - and now I remember - and I'm freaking out! It seems everything I read about this is bad - and that it is not even meant to be given orally to cats! I don't know how much she gave - but I did call the office and asked for her to call me back about this.

I'm upset - she gave these things without even asking me first. Now, I know it won't automatically case kidney failure or other severe problems - and it's too late to do anything about it now - but I'm worried.

Sould I be on the lookout for anything specific in Porky's behavior?

I also gave her the printout of the Lantus protocol - and she told me that she does start off on low doses. But....when I had Porky there after his initial diagnosis, within 5 days they had upped his dose from 1u SID to 3u BID!!! I don't want to overreact, but I'm now starting to question several things about my vet....opinions?
 
((JEN)) try not to panic - I however am blown away that the vet gave meds and AB without telling you.

Did they tell u what it was for?
 
(((Jen and Porky)))

yes, Metacam can have bad side affects, but my civie Azrael has been on it daily (for cancer pain management) for more than 6 months. while it can have bad side effects, I don't think one dose will be life threatening.
 
ack, i thought i posted here....question: that 'took in back for hand scaling'.....did your cat just get an "awake dental"?
if so, yes i have lots to say about your vet....
 
I've had hand scaling done on Porky's teeth before - if the cat is compliant, I think they like to do this instead of a full put-under-anesthesia dental. Porky's a very mellow, easy-going guy, so there were no problems.

I'll ask the vet when she calls, but I'm thinking the AB and metacam were because of the scaling that was done. Overkill, perhaps? :?:

Again, I'm not trying to overreact, but the more I think about it, the more upset I get! cat(2)_steam
 
Jennifer and Porky said:
I've had hand scaling done on Porky's teeth before - if the cat is compliant, I think they like to do this instead of a full put-under-anesthesia dental.
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http://www.felinediabetes.com/phorum5/read.php?8,73506
Dentals - General comments
Posted by: Lisa dvm (IP Logged)
Date: March 8, 2005 10:32PM

4) I want to mention also, that any dental done without anesthesia is not only a waste of time, but cruel to the animal. There is no way that an adequate exam/cleaning can be accomplished in an awake animal. In addition to this issue, all an 'anesthetic-free' dental results in is a false sense of security in the pet owner that their pet's dental needs have been adequately addressed which is very far from the truth. The tartar that is seen on the outside of the tooth - that may be removed during an anesthesia-free dentistry - is not a problem with dental health. It is the area UNDER the gumline that is the issue and no awake animal is going to let a human probe under the gumline on the inside and outside of every tooth. Removing the plaque does serve some purpose in that it removes bacteria from the mouth and this is a good thing with regard to seeding the rest of the body with oral bacteria, but this issue is not pertinent to dental health.

Anesthesia-free dentals offered by lay people are illegal in CA and with very good reason.
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Awwww, Im so sorry your vet did that! Its infuriating!!!! Im glad you called them back and I hope you tell them that you NEVER want them to administer medications before consulting with you first. Just not okay, PERIOD!

In regards to the metacam, when you speak to them, please find out the dose they gave and how they administered it (via syringe or drop method). things you would want to look out for are, increased drinking, vomiting, lack of appetite, lethargy, change in bowel habits, etc. Here is a link to the fda NSAID website:

http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/safetyhealth/productsafetyinformation/ucm055434.htm
and potential side effects to look for:
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/FDAVeterinarianNewsletter/ucm093573.htm

Latte had metacam induced acute renal failure, now chronic. I cant tell you if one dose could or could not cause such a severe problem for Porky. But now you know what to look out for, and that your vet was out of line by doing this. Some day, there WILL be a law requiring informed consent for medications like this, ....I promise!!!!

I hope porky continues to do well! I bet you are so proud of him! I had to chuckle when you mentioned his weight, as he is well over twice Latte's size. ;-) I told her Porky could squish her in a second, so be nice if they ever come accross each other! :lol:
 
Well, goodness, Porky sure is a big boy! My civvie Booboo is around 1/3 his weight. I hope his diet helps him shave off a few lbs in time.

I don't know how comfy you are with your vet, but no matter what, I would expect the vet to tell you exactly what meds is being given, and why. Whenever Shadoe is taken by the vet tech, I ask exactly what is going to be done, why and how.

Be sure you tell your vet that you need the info before things are done, not after the fact.
 
Jennifer:

I don't know if you've ever had periodontal work done. This is the equivalent of a scaling procedure (if not identical). No human dentist/periodontist would do this without local anesthesia and I think any of us would be rocketing out of the chair if anyone attempted to do a scaling without anesthesia. It would be very painful, to say the least. If you wouldn't tolerate having periodontal work on yourself without anesthesia, why would you let the vet do this to Porky? (I'm not saying this is your fault. I know how much you care for Porky. I would be having a serious confrontation with my vet if this occurred and probably calling around to see if, as Dr. Lisa noted, it is accepted practice in your area.)
 
No real update - I'm still waiting for a call back from the vet. But Porky seems fine, so far - his usual flirty self.

I'm sitting here feeling like such an idiot - to just blindly trust my vet and let them take Porky into "the back" and do whatever! What is it about people in white coats, with a "Dr." in front of their name? We assume they're experts and can do no wrong. :sad:

Yes, in hindsight, I should have asked more questions about exactly what they were going to do, but I agree: she shouldn't have given Porky any medications without my knowledge. When I speak with her, I will definitely be telling her my wishes on that. And I'll be asking exactly what was done on the scaling - I'm guessing it was just surface plaque removal, but...who knows at this point???

Sigh...I'm trying not to beat myself up so much over this. :cry:
 
Please don't beat yourself up over this; how were you to know?

But now you do, so make your demands and wishes known at the start of every visit, and research everything before saying ya sure ok.

And Porky will thank you too.

I don't go to the vet without my pile of papers with info and lists of stuff that others have said are harmful and lists of pain meds, good and bad.

Instead of beating yourself up, just gather up a pile of info for your next visit and you will feel better for having prepared.
 
Jennifer and Porky said:
I'm sitting here feeling like such an idiot - to just blindly trust my vet and let them take Porky into "the back" and do whatever!

Yes, in hindsight, I should have asked more questions about exactly what they were going to do, but I agree...
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Jennifer,
We SHOULD be able to trust our vets to do what is best for them AND fully inform us of tx's PRIOR to doing so (sorry for all the capitalizing, LOL). There are laws, Depending on your state (tho I think it applies in most, if not all), as well as veterinary ethics that you should always be informed of your options. The vet did not do their job. What you have learned from this is that you can and will hold them accountable for the job the didnt do today and in the future.

When Latte was given the metacam, I did it willingly. Had I been told the truth I may not have been so willing. I was given three choices of pain relievers. I was told the other two would not work. Metacam was the best thing out there. Since this was one of the first times i had ever brought Latte to the vet in her 14yrs, at that time, I trusted them. I didnt even go home and look up information on it!!!! Can you believe that?!?! I would look up info on drugs prescribed to me, but not my cat?! *sigh* For a week I didnt even know something was wrong. Changes in bowel habits, vomiting, and not eating were due to constipation, according to the vet, and prescribed me MORE metacam to help relieve any arthritic pain from straining. I went on a trip for one week and came home to a cat I didnt even recognize.

It was not until I called the FDA to file an adverse reaction soon before I was about to (but didnt) put Latte down, that I learned more about the drug. Ive had to work a lot on the guilt. When I feel bad, I try to focus on being proactive to make sure these things dont happen to other people.

In the meantime the vet we have now (diff vet/same clinic) is very respectful toward my concerns of what happened and fully informing me of my choices, letting me ask questions, being patient when I have to go home and think about it or research it, etc. Anytime I have had to see another vet (including specialists), I make it very clear about our experience and that we need their guidance and expertise, but I will be making the final decision on any of Latte's care. Ive rarely met resistance with our approach. And when I do, I move on.

Sorry this is so long. sorry this has happened. I think you and porky are going to be just fine. You are now not only a loving and wonderful bean to Porky, but more educated and informed. :mrgreen: And maybe, by your speaking up to the vet, THEY will learn as well!!!! Im quite certain there are one or two people reading your condo that have learned a lesson from this as well.

Take any guilt, even anger...put it aside and go snuggle with your big guy!
 
OMG Jennifer!! So upset by this event!! Once my old bad vet gave my civvie a scaling after he had given him some sedation(yes he had to be sedated as this guy came to my house) right in front of me!!! I was not on the board yet! He gave me NO ab's or pain meds & I only remembered when I read this cat(2)_steam --
Then, he gave Moonie her first dental & did give metacam at time of the surgery--She had 5 teeth out then..She was on the metacam that day & next am, but was fine, right after that..
Her second dental was by our new vet who gave metacam at the surgery, & buprenex for after & I gave it to her for 4-5 days.
I was told by Jill, Jojo, and everyone else who ever had a dental, what to ask for & what questions to ask..
BUT How Dare he go & do that painful scaling on Sweet Porky without your consent??? How would he like it??
Could you maybe start looking for a different vet, if you are so appalled??
It really was a violation of "patients rights"
Hugs to you & Porky!!!
 
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