Singha-out of remission :(

Sam&Milo(GA)&Singha

Sam&Milo(GA)&Singha

Active Member
Posted on main board:
Good morning. Some of you know me from my posts about Milo. He and his litter mate, Singha, have been diagnosed with diabetes (at different times). Singha was first, last August. He was on 1 unit of Caninsulin 2x daily for a year. I didn’t know about this group and just kept up this routine as I was told by the vet (no BG testing at all).
In July his brother Milo was diagnosed. I started doing testing on both cats and Singa was always under 5.5 and his vet told me to stop the insulin. I didn’t know at that time to reduce him slowly. He remained for the past month always in the 5 range when I would do spot checks.
Now that I found this group, I’m doing things very differently with Milo and I realize that Singha should never have been taken off his 1u dose completely but should have beenreduced gradually.
Singha has been throwing up the last little while and yesterday refused food (not like him at all). I checked his BG and he was 189 before bed and 178 this morning. So... what to do? I still have his Caninsulin and I think it worked for him. I feel like 1u is a lot with him just being in the blues. I don’t even know what protocol to follow since he’s more than I year post diagnosis. Plus I have to return to work very soon. I’m not sure I have time to monitor him enough to know what he’s like to try TR at this point. But I’m also not sureabout trying to follow two different protocols and two different insulins etc. Maybe I should go straight to Lantus with him like Milo? But I still have lots of Caninsulin left too butfewer syringes.
I need help!! I think I’d like to shoot tonight or tomorrow morning at the latest when I can monitor him no matter what I protocol I choose.
Singha ate this morning and seems more like himself. No vomiting. He seemed to vomit the raw of if I fed him too much in the am. can vomiting cause BG to go high or vice versa? I can never get a keytone urine test done with him or I would have already tried.
Thanks in advance for your help.
 
Hi Sam - just want to let you know when I get off work in a few hours I can sit down and type out a message to you. :)

Just to throw out, TR can't be done with Vetsulin, the insulin is too harsh for the protocol. Hang in there!
 
Okay! Sorry for the delay. :)

So, I want to make sure I don't mix your two kitties up.
Milo - on Lantus TR
Singha - possibly out of remission, was previously on Caninsulin

Correct? And does Singha have any sort of SS to share? How long was Singha on insulin? Is Singha showing any signs of diabetes again, or is the only thing the elevated BG? How is he eating today? Before starting insulin I would get a fructosamine done. Sometimes an illness can knock a cat out of remission. Is it possible he is sick? Have you checked him for ketones? Not eating/vomiting can indicate issues like pancreatitis, which comes gradually. If his appetite is poor I would take him in to be checked.

In regards to which insulin to put him on if needed - I would stick with Lantus. Caninsulin is a pain to work with, and while it's awesome it got him to remission the first time, it's less likely to happen the second time around. Plus I think it'd be a little risky for you to have two different insulins being used. You're only human and I can only imagine what might happen if you're on auto-pilot and draw from the wrong vial/pen.

Let me know if I misunderstood anything, since you've got two kitties.
 
You have completely understood the situation with the two cats! Milo (white kitty) is on Lantus, freshly diagnosed this summer. Singha (brown kitty) had a bowel obstruction last summer and we did surgery. In the course of those vet visits and diagnosis for surgery, they discovered the diabetes, heart murmur and confirmed that he's totally blind. I believe Milo is deaf. They are my very special needs kitties. I am a special education teacher; I didn't expect this at home too! But they are lovely, just with challenging health issues. Milo doesn't have great teeth so I need to have that addressed once it seems like the right time. Singha may have the same problem but it wasn't mentioned last vet visit.
I did not do a SS on Singha because he was taken off of Caninsulin (he was on it for 11 months) before I was up and running with this group. I started doing spot checks once I had a meter and he was always under 5.5, no matter when I tested him. So, I believed the vet and I believed he was in remission. He is not showing other signs of diabetes. He generally is a really good eater but when I switched him to a raw diet, I noticed if I fed him too much at once in the morning (his regular amount), he'd throw up. So, I've adjusted to smaller meals and I am giving him a chance to get used to it more. It was going well but he threw up the other night (there was a hairball in it so that's what I attributed it to...) and later on in the evening. Then he didn't want to eat after that and seemed a bit out-of-sorts. However, he's back to eating well again today. The only thing is the elevated BG but I thought maybe the stress of vomiting a couple of times was stressful enough to elevate the BG??? I can not get a keytone on him as I rarely notice him heading downstairs to the litterbox and he's very easily spooked because of his blindness. He seems perfectly fine today, just slightly elevated BG still (all in the blue range, I believe). I'll start a spreadsheet when I get a chance.
I like the idea of trying Lantus, if his BG doesn't come back down. I think I'll monitor and see how he is tomorrow before making a decision what to do (vet, Lantus etc). One compounding factor is I just switched to a OneDrop meter and discovered it's reading high. However, even with the Contour, Singha is still blue today.
I hope I've explained that all well enough. I appreciate your expertise and support with this newest development.
 
Wow! :eek: I guess fate knew you'd be able to handle those two! Why is it the beautiful longhair kitties are the ones with all the extra needs! :woot:

I think I would get a test or two in after he eats to see if you see any pancreatic activity from him. The advice from the health forum is good; maybe double-check to make sure he doesn't need a dental. Do keep us updated on him. :)

On the ketone issue - totally get it, my girl preferred to do her business outside and when she did use the litterbox, she kept her little butt so low to the ground + big floofy tail meant there was no way I could get a ketostix under her! In hindsight I would have purchased a blood ketone meter. I think that'd be something sensible to have on hand in general, especially with two diabetics!
 
He's eaten and now dropped down to 106. What does this mean? What does pancreatic activity look like?? These kitties are as high-maintenance as they are gorgeous!

No insulin and here's the numbers: 9.9 (NS)/+3.25 8.9/+4 8.4/+10 8.3/+14 5.9 (2 hours after eating raw diet--lamb)
 
Pancreatic activity is just any indication that the pancreas is trying to do its job - which it looks like it is! That's a really good thing. :) Think it'd be wise to keep checking here and there for a few days, that's a really good sign. I'd recommend posting them in your other thread too. :D
 
I created and linked his spreadsheet just now. He regurgitated a bit of his breakfast but seems fine and ate more about a half hour ago. No more vomiting. I'm going to check with the vet but probably can't get him in until tomorrow. Should I be posting to the same forum as with Milo (Lantus) or where? I'm not clear... I will keep checking BG. I am open to getting a keytone meter as well. Do you have any recommendations of a kind? I will have to rely on Amazon.ca as I am in Canada. Options are much more limited than with amazon.com unfortunately.
 
I should also mention I was worried about a possible blockage as I got worrying about Singha because there's not a lot of poop happening lately. However, I have been doing some reading and a raw diet apparently often reduces the amount of poop and it's less smelly. With two cats it's kind of hard to tell who is doing what... But he's eating again and when he does throw up, often it's right after eating and is better when he gets less to eat, particularly in the morning. He is acting well. I do supplement with herring oil and I also gave him hairball treatment to make sure everything is well lubricated...
 
You'll have to publish his spreadsheet, it's not giving me access. :P

Has he always been vomiting his raw or no? I think you'll want to post on the Main Health since Singha isn't on insulin yet and you don't want people to confuse him and Milo.
No personal experience with ketone meters but it looks like a lot of members use the Precision Xtra or Nova Max Plus meters. Link to more info.

I've heard that about raw diets as well with less poop. Fingers crossed that's all it is!
 
I think you should be able to see the spreadsheet now. Singha hasn't been on the raw diet for very long. He sometimes regurgitates some of it but not always the same kind and not all the time (except the beef ....a definite NO). He seems to be more prone to regurgitating the food in the morning if he eats too much (too fast???) He LOVES to eat. I have a vet appointment tomorrow at 2pm. Hopefully there's nothing seriously wrong with him. He is acting quite normal, not like last summer prior to surgery. So, at least I have that to compare with.
 
Perfect! :)

Hahaha a kitty that lives to eat! There's the suggestions of spreading the food out on a plate to force them to slow down, or adding a golf ball to their bowl. Am looking forward to hearing what they say tomorrow! Fingers crossed!
 
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