Some questions going forward

Previous thread since starting insulin here

So Mochi is due for a dental cleaning. Her vet told me to hold off for now but when the time comes is there any info on how to adjust dose/feeding etc going into the anesthesia/appointment? Vet also told me to hold off on brushing her teeth at home in the beginning since she isn't used to it but I understand it's importance now so i figure maybe wait a week or two for her to adjust see how she's doing and go from there?

Also in terms of wet food. I read the sticky on transitioning them and she's slowly taken to it and I always present it first but she still prefers the dry. Now that she's on insulin along with ketone testing. Should I start withholding food when she doesn't eat enough wet food (provided her bg isn't low or dropping) and let her beg and get more hungry until she eats more of it? I know making sure she ate before she was on insulin was top priority to limit ketone risk but is that different now or is there a certain range of bg I should wait for before it's safe to start attempts at letting her wait until she's hungry enough to eat more wet? Currently about 50-66% of her calories are still coming from the lc dry.

Edited to add: Finally got the exact value from her fructosimine test. Vet said 535. I don't get it since her first vet glucose test was 392 which she shouldve been stressed for and I've never seen values that high so I don't get how that could be an average? Does that change anything about what dose she should be starting on? The vet seems very insistent on bumping up to 1u but I said I didn't feel comfortable with that before she builds a depot and then seeing how her numbers look and even then its more than the .25u adjustments suggested and I tend to trust the advice on here more from everything I've learned so far. Either way I told them I'm not considering adjusting the dose before at least a few days of depot build up and then numbers for some days after that. (is the number difference because fructosimine results are in umol/l vs glucose readings being in mg/dl)? Also right away there's been a lot more yellow numbers, which I assume is coincidence since it takes up to 3 days to see much impact from insulin from what I understand but either way that doesn't make me want to double the dose after 1 day if it is already taking some effect.
 
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Previous thread since starting insulin here

So Mochi is due for a dental cleaning. Her vet told me to hold off for now but when the time comes is there any info on how to adjust dose/feeding etc going into the anesthesia/appointment? Vet also told me to hold off on brushing her teeth at home in the beginning since she isn't used to it but I understand it's importance now so i figure maybe wait a week or two for her to adjust see how she's doing and go from there?

Also in terms of wet food. I read the sticky on transitioning them and she's slowly taken to it and I always present it first but she still prefers the dry. Now that she's on insulin along with ketone testing. Should I start withholding food when she doesn't eat enough wet food (provided her bg isn't low or dropping) and let her beg and get more hungry until she eats more of it? I know making sure she ate before she was on insulin was top priority to limit ketone risk but is that different now or is there a certain range of bg I should wait for before it's safe to start attempts at letting her wait until she's hungry enough to eat more wet? Currently about 50-66% of her calories are still coming from the lc dry.
@Bron and Sheba (GA)
@Diane Tyler's Mom GA
 
Haven't got a chance to try this yet... but it's on our to try list!!!
There are dental wipes available at most pet stores. They are gauze wipes with something on them to help the teeth. Just rub them along the teeth - you'll be amazed what you get off. :blackeye: And easier to get in the mouth than a tooth brush if they aren't used to being cleaned.
 
As long as you are testing for ketones and there are none, I would wait 5 days before asking for advice about an increase in dose.
I wasn't planning to increase, I was just confused as to why my vet is so adamant about it even after telling them I wouldn't. Even day one 2nd cycle at around +4 she got a big drop and then a quick bounce. I was told not to expect much the first few days so it just caught me off guard.
 
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Vet also told me to hold off on brushing her teeth at home in the beginning since she isn't used to it but I understand it's importance now so i figure maybe wait a week or two for her to adjust see how she's doing and go from there?
Before you start brushing I would buy the cat toothpaste and just rub it on her teeth the grt used to it. Then try it with a thin piece of rag. Do it slowly Then introduce the toothbrush only first a few seconds. Gradually increase. I’ve been cleaning my cats teeth for 8 years and he just lies there and lets me do it. I started slowly.
Should I start withholding food when she doesn't eat enough wet food (provided her bg isn't low or dropping) and let her beg and get more hungry until she eats more of it? I know making sure she ate before she was on insulin was top priority to limit ketone risk but is that different now or is there a certain range of bg I should wait for before it's safe to start attempts at letting her wait until she's hungry enough to eat more wet? Currently about 50-66% of her calories are still coming from the lc dry.
I would not withhold food at all. It doesn’t matter if the transition is flow.
I changed above post from 5 to 7 days staying on first dose to fill the depot as you are doing SLGS dosing method as you are feeding dry goods
 
Before you start brushing I would buy the cat toothpaste and just rub it on her teeth the grt used to it. Then try it with a thin piece of rag. Do it slowly Then introduce the toothbrush only first a few seconds. Gradually increase. I’ve been cleaning my cats teeth for 8 years and he just lies there and lets me do it. I started slowly.

I would not withhold food at all. It doesn’t matter if the transition is flow.
I changed above post from 5 to 7 days staying on first dose to fill the depot as you are doing SLGS dosing method as you are feeding dry goods
Ok, can you please look at her ss real quick. I'm starting to get nervous, I was told not to expect much day 1 and it seems like her number keeps going down. Should I wake her up and give her some food? it's down to 136 now and keeps trending down. I woke her up to eat reg food, am staying up to monitor anything else I should do atm now theres a sensor error on my libre. Im trying to read how to spot test her right now while she eats. Spot test said 251. I think maybe something happened with her sensor idk, but I'm going to stay up
 
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Yes give her some more food.
Did you recheck that 84 with the ReliOn meter ?
Yes it said 251, it was my first attempt I don't know if there can be errors, but because she wasn't used to it and I was panicking she won't let me do another test to follow up. that relion test was 30 mins ago. It's the first day and I wasn't expecting to deal with anything like this right away. It's prob just an error that freaked me out from the libre but it's so early to be calm having just started.
 
I'm just freaking out because that was so traumatizing for her first blood draw so she won't trust me to take another so i don't know what to do going forward even if tonight I think is ok
 
You have done well. It is scary when something like that happens.
The libre can be unreliable under 100 so you did the right thing testing with the hand held meter.
Make sure you always offer a treat when you test. Mochi will soon realise tests mean treats. You can always give her a little bit of low carb food and test her while she has her head in the bowl.
My Sheba would race from wherever she was in the house when she heard me at the testing equipment.
 
You have done well. It is scary when something like that happens.
The libre can be unreliable under 100 so you did the right thing testing with the hand held meter.
Make sure you always offer a treat when you test. Mochi will soon realise tests mean treats. You can always give her a little bit of low carb food and test her while she has her head in the bowl.
My Sheba would race from wherever she was in the house when she heard me at the testing equipment.
I don't even know if her sugar was dropping now or the fast drop was just an error in itself, I have no way of knowing now if it got lower and lower and then caused an error or it was an error from the start of the drop. Idk if I should shoot tomorrow or just spend the day trying to get her used to the ear testing but it was really hard to do. I'm couldn't hold her ear firm enough to get the lancet to go in easily, trying to milk it to get blood was bothering her. I tried retesting after 15 mins but she was too stressed. I've watched the videos so many times and it looks so simple but it was so hard. She had no prob with the insulin shot but the blood test was a nightmare. I heard from members the libre was innacurate at low levels but I don't think it's supposed to just keep dropping from a high number all the way too low and then an error.
 
You have done well getting the first test done.
It takes time to get it down pat. We all went through it and so will you.
Wait and see what the Preshot is in the morning.
It’s better not to skip doses if possible. Post and ask for help.
How many hours until AMPS?
 
You have done well getting the first test done.
It takes time to get it down pat. We all went through it and so will you.
Wait and see what the Preshot is in the morning.
It’s better not to skip doses if possible. Post and ask for help.
How many hours until AMPS?
6 hours but she won't be still even eating when I try to get blood from her ear. I was rubbing them the last couple days to get her use to it but I was panicking seeing the numbers drop so fast and unable to draw blood so I was trying to hold her down and just made her more scared. I thought having the libre would let me slowly ease her into it while at least getting the insulin started.
 
Everything felt like it was going so smooth and then in a 5 minute window I just see on my phone it go from 200 to 84. Do i just trust the libre is currently working and go to bed without being able to spot test her again tonight which I don't think she will let me do without force at this point.

Edit. Just google searched and found this

False low readings on a FreeStyle Libre 3 sensor at night are often caused by pressure-induced sensor errors, where sleeping on the sensor compresses the area and reduces fluid volume, leading to inaccurate readings

that is most likely what happened, really wish I knew that was a thing or that the vet explained that could happen. At the very least now I know and if I notice sudden dropping I can wake up and get her off the sensor and hopefully ease her into spot testing. Ty so much for responding, that was just so scary so fast on day 1
 
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I can’t say definitely that the libre is working now or not. But I do know they can be unreliable when under 100.
If its reading 282 now it is probably correct if you look at all the other cycles around the +6 mark.
Your alternatives are 1. Feed some food and go to bed.
2. Try testing again and see if you can get a reading. Do it slowly so as not to frighten her. Offer her food.
3 stay up.


6 hours but she won't be still even eating when I try to get blood from her ear.
What do you mean she won’t be still even eating when you test? It will be fine to give her a bit of food while you test. It takes at least 15 minutes to affect the BG.
 
I can’t say definitely that the libre is working now or not. But I do know they can be unreliable when under 100.
If its reading 282 now it is probably correct if you look at all the other cycles around the +6 mark.
Your alternatives are 1. Feed some food and go to bed.
2. Try testing again and see if you can get a reading. Do it slowly so as not to frighten her. Offer her food.
3 stay up.



What do you mean she won’t be still even eating when you test? It will be fine to give her a bit of food while you test. It takes at least 15 minutes to affect the BG.
She will try to pull away trying to prick and milk blood from her ears even if I do it while she's eating, the insulin she doesn't mind thankfully. I think everything is ok for now after just finding out the readings will drop rapidly if pressure applied by sleeping on it. She physically seems fine/normal, I'll go to bed and try to go slowly testing her with relion in the morning since I know there is no emergency now. If I see numbers dropping that fast on there again, i'll make sure she isn't laying directly on it. Ty i really appreciate it.
 
False low readings on a FreeStyle Libre 3 sensor at night are often caused by pressure-induced sensor errors, where sleeping on the sensor compresses the area and reduces fluid volume, leading to inaccurate readings
Glad you found this, many members who use the Libre have indicated this problem. I had it once with Petey. You did the next right thing to test with the handheld, congratulations! The testing will get easier and you will build more confidence, which will help Mochi to trust you. You got this. :bighug:
 
Try the CET poultry flavored toothpaste. Leroy goes nuts for it. Buy the starter kit with the mini toothbrush. It's easy to poke the toothbrush into the mouth and swab around.

1613785126683-jpeg.370691
 
Glad you found this, many members who use the Libre have indicated this problem. I had it once with Petey. You did the next right thing to test with the handheld, congratulations! The testing will get easier and you will build more confidence, which will help Mochi to trust you. You got this. :bighug:
When Corky was first diagnosed he came home with a sensor “Libre” By saying this, believe me I understand your frustration, Corkys Sensor fell off the same day, the next one stoped working after 8 days and in the middle of the night the lowBG alarm would go off reading 50- and less, I was at the point of a breakdown, and my vet said goodbye, the insulin vial dropped out of my hand the next morning after he came home from the hospital on his second shot, so I understand your frustration. O was second guessing myself if I did the tight thing, no vet no more money, I banged his diabetes for 3 months with the little misinformation given by the vet until I found this forum and the first thing I was told was this… “Step back breath in and breath out” our cats sense our stress, we stress they get stressed, always test at his favorite spot let him see the supplies cats are curious, place them in front of him, pet his head and ears for a few, have the lance t close to you the strip in the monitor the rice sock in his ear ready to prick(the rice sock, a small sock with rice in it to make a small ball tied) to cup the ear for a better prick):bighug::bighug::cat::cat: you got this!!
 
When Corky was first diagnosed he came home with a sensor “Libre” By saying this, believe me I understand your frustration, Corkys Sensor fell off the same day, the next one stoped working after 8 days and in the middle of the night the lowBG alarm would go off reading 50- and less, I was at the point of a breakdown, and my vet said goodbye, the insulin vial dropped out of my hand the next morning after he came home from the hospital on his second shot, so I understand your frustration. O was second guessing myself if I did the tight thing, no vet no more money, I banged his diabetes for 3 months with the little misinformation given by the vet until I found this forum and the first thing I was told was this… “Step back breath in and breath out” our cats sense our stress, we stress they get stressed, always test at his favorite spot let him see the supplies cats are curious, place them in front of him, pet his head and ears for a few, have the lance t close to you the strip in the monitor the rice sock in his ear ready to prick(the rice sock, a small sock with rice in it to make a small ball tied) to cup the ear for a better prick):bighug::bighug::cat::cat: you got this!!
Yeah it was scary but now that it's behind us I feel like it was good to have a practice panic event where it was just a sensor error and not an actual event. Last night was basically a lesson in what not to do in that situation. I saw her numbers basically death spiral (which was just an error) and so I lost all rational thought and felt like I need to get blood now, freaked her out which made it hard to test, which freaked me out more and on and on. I can learn from this going forward if an actual event happens to not panic, give her stabilizing mc/hc food first (which is the biggest mistake I think I made last night) and then because I've given the food I can be patient with her while trying to get a test. When you say use the sock to cup the ear, I blanked pretty much everything I had read/watched in the that moment. I was trying to prick from the inside of the ear towards the back. Is it easier to go from the back of the ear towards the front? I also think until we are both more used to it I will try the lancing pen as it's quicker and less of an issue trying to get the lancet to actually pierce the skin.
 
then because I've given the food I can be patient with her while trying to get a test
Perfect! I still seem to forget everything I've learned in the middle of a perceived crisis. :joyful:

Yes, I prick on the outside of the ear while holding a cotton round on the inside. Prick, test, then hold the cotton round on the front and back of the ear for a few seconds to stop the bleeding and reduce bruising. All while he's busy eating a snack.
 
Yeah it was scary but now that it's behind us I feel like it was good to have a practice panic event where it was just a sensor error and not an actual event. Last night was basically a lesson in what not to do in that situation. I saw her numbers basically death spiral (which was just an error) and so I lost all rational thought and felt like I need to get blood now, freaked her out which made it hard to test, which freaked me out more and on and on. I can learn from this going forward if an actual event happens to not panic, give her stabilizing mc/hc food first (which is the biggest mistake I think I made last night) and then because I've given the food I can be patient with her while trying to get a test. When you say use the sock to cup the ear, I blanked pretty much everything I had read/watched in the that moment. I was trying to prick from the inside of the ear towards the back. Is it easier to go from the back of the ear towards the front? I also think until we are both more used to it I will try the lancing pen as it's quicker and less of an issue trying to get the lancet to actually pierce the skin.
I have a small flash light I place in my mouth while testing, I place the sock on the inside part of the ear (cupping it) test from the outside in, you do not need to stick the needle all the way thru the other side, withing time the ear capillaries will swell and the blood comes out much easier, the flash light is also good for you to track from the inside the veins till they began to swell, than just the feel of your thumb will know where to place the needle. I have been testing Corky on the right ear only for 3 years, his right ear has very miniature veins.
I know the feeling at first I would bombard this forum in the middle of the night all night, and I would not leave my house if Corky's BG was 150 , as well as If AMPS or PMPS was close and he was 150 I would panic again bombarding the members, now I leave my house to a Drs appt for 2-3 hours with Corky's BG at 70s if need to and even shoot insulin in the 80's(of course Corky is on ProZinc) I have never missed a shot! and we are both happy, see, the Vets at the hospital told me that a diabetics good glucose number was between 200-300 (lied)I still have the recording of their instructions, all wrong! so imagine coming home after 8 days of hospitalization, force feeding, no vet, broken insulin vial all the supplies, and not having a clue were I was standing! It was a nightmare, But I found this Forum after 3 months or so and it had been bliss ever since, Corky is a very healthy boy, he has not stepped paw in another vets office as of today, except for his regulated rabies shot nothing more, I trust this Forum Blindly and I'll say it every chance I get, Not all Vets are familiar with Feline Diabetes, and instead of making our cats better, we become a piggy bank for them, tanking back and forth on decreases/increases, prescribed food,, This is were all Diabetic parent need to be, right here in this forum as far as I am concerned, needless to say I am not by far against vets at all, there times were our precious cargo has complications and a vet is needed, but unfortunately some do not listen to us, we know our cats better than they do, so always follow your instinct:bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
Yeah it was scary but now that it's behind us I feel like it was good to have a practice panic event where it was just a sensor error and not an actual event. Last night was basically a lesson in what not to do in that situation. I saw her numbers basically death spiral (which was just an error) and so I lost all rational thought and felt like I need to get blood now, freaked her out which made it hard to test, which freaked me out more and on and on. I can learn from this going forward if an actual event happens to not panic, give her stabilizing mc/hc food first (which is the biggest mistake I think I made last night) and then because I've given the food I can be patient with her while trying to get a test. When you say use the sock to cup the ear, I blanked pretty much everything I had read/watched in the that moment. I was trying to prick from the inside of the ear towards the back. Is it easier to go from the back of the ear towards the front? I also think until we are both more used to it I will try the lancing pen as it's quicker and less of an issue trying to get the lancet to actually pierce the skin.

This has happened to us. Total panic. Memory loss. Now you are initiated. Congratulations! If you had told me that testing Kobe's ears was going to end up being sweet and cuddly and something that improved our bond, I would have thought you were lying. I thought he was going to run from me FOREVER. Be patient and loving and don't forget the treats. Tell her what a good girl she is and how much you love her. :joyful::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
This has happened to us. Total panic. Memory loss. Now you are initiated. Congratulations! If you had told me that testing Kobe's ears was going to end up being sweet and cuddly and something that improved our bond, I would have thought you were lying. I thought he was going to run from me FOREVER. Be patient and loving and don't forget the treats. Tell her what a good girl she is and how much you love her. :joyful::bighug::bighug::bighug:
:joyful::D:D:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
 
I have a small flash light I place in my mouth while testing, I place the sock on the inside part of the ear (cupping it) test from the outside in, you do not need to stick the needle all the way thru the other side, withing time the ear capillaries will swell and the blood comes out much easier, the flash light is also good for you to track from the inside the veins till they began to swell, than just the feel of your thumb will know where to place the needle. I have been testing Corky on the right ear only for 3 years, his right ear has very miniature veins.
I know the feeling at first I would bombard this forum in the middle of the night all night, and I would not leave my house if Corky's BG was 150 , as well as If AMPS or PMPS was close and he was 150 I would panic again bombarding the members, now I leave my house to a Drs appt for 2-3 hours with Corky's BG at 70s if need to and even shoot insulin in the 80's(of course Corky is on ProZinc) I have never missed a shot! and we are both happy, see, the Vets at the hospital told me that a diabetics good glucose number was between 200-300 (lied)I still have the recording of their instructions, all wrong! so imagine coming home after 8 days of hospitalization, force feeding, no vet, broken insulin vial all the supplies, and not having a clue were I was standing! It was a nightmare, But I found this Forum after 3 months or so and it had been bliss ever since, Corky is a very healthy boy, he has not stepped paw in another vets office as of today, except for his regulated rabies shot nothing more, I trust this Forum Blindly and I'll say it every chance I get, Not all Vets are familiar with Feline Diabetes, and instead of making our cats better, we become a piggy bank for them, tanking back and forth on decreases/increases, prescribed food,, This is were all Diabetic parent need to be, right here in this forum as far as I am concerned, needless to say I am not by far against vets at all, there times were our precious cargo has complications and a vet is needed, but unfortunately some do not listen to us, we know our cats better than they do, so always follow your instinct:bighug::bighug::bighug::cat::cat:
I do really like the vet and staff I found. They are extremely friendly and let me ask questions, didn't try to push for any extra tests, gave me their personal numbers in case I need to contact and reached out a few days post 1st appointment to see how Mochi was doing. But like you said, I feel this forum will be my primary source for questions/info/guidance because like doctors vets are trained in a specific literature which changes without them always being up to date on it. Glad everything has worked out for you and Corky, he has such a cute face!
 
This has happened to us. Total panic. Memory loss. Now you are initiated. Congratulations! If you had told me that testing Kobe's ears was going to end up being sweet and cuddly and something that improved our bond, I would have thought you were lying. I thought he was going to run from me FOREVER. Be patient and loving and don't forget the treats. Tell her what a good girl she is and how much you love her. :joyful::bighug::bighug::bighug:
After the event was over, I got on the ground laying next to her and just comforted her and gave her scritches under her chin and she seems like shes ok. Didn't want to add stress right away and now I know about possible libre errors so today I've been spending time getting down with her with the monitor, needles etc, just letting her smell them, observe them, let her scratch her cheeks on the caps etc while I hold them and pet her. Just like with myself I tend to try to over rush things so this was a good reminder to slow down and take my time with everything and as bad as last night was, it gave me a lot to learn from when she wasn't actually in any danger despite thinking she was.
 
I do really like the vet and staff I found. They are extremely friendly and let me ask questions, didn't try to push for any extra tests, gave me their personal numbers in case I need to contact and reached out a few days post 1st appointment to see how Mochi was doing.

A good relationship with a vet is so important. It's great that you found one that listens and answers questions. :cat::cat::cat:
 
Try the CET poultry flavored toothpaste. Leroy goes nuts for it. Buy the starter kit with the mini toothbrush. It's easy to poke the toothbrush into the mouth and swab around.

1613785126683-jpeg.370691
Squeem, I had this written down to research and here I am.

This and most toothpastes I see appear to have some ingredients that look like forms of sugar though? I’m also looking at the wipes but they have baking soda which doesn’t sound great for them either. Maybe I’m overthinking it? I could start a teeth brushing thread… looks like it’s been a while since it was discussed on it’s own.
 
Squeem, I had this written down to research and here I am.

This and most toothpastes I see appear to have some ingredients that look like forms of sugar though? I’m also looking at the wipes but they have baking soda which doesn’t sound great for them either. Maybe I’m overthinking it? I could start a teeth brushing thread… looks like it’s been a while since it was discussed on it’s own.
It's funny, I've been so busy getting used to everything else and a routine/rhythm I had the same concerns/questions about baking soda, sugars and alcohols I was planning to research at some point xD
 
Glucose Oxidase is an enzyme. Sorbitol is a type of sugar but the amount in the teeny amount you swab a cat's teeth shouldn't affect bgs. CET toothpaste has been recommended on FDMB in the past as diabetic-friendly.
 
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