Sugars jumping around

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SamuraiFox

SamuraiFox

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So on my database, the sugars I have gotten are jumping from the 500s to as low as in the 100s (for the first time since he was diagnosed). I know y'all say not to do glucose curves on our own, but I'm afraid I'd be unsuccessful too much to have a reliable curve, so he's going in on Tuesday for his first curve. Is the jumping sugar normal until he's fully stabilized?

Side note: I know I don't have a super complete database, but every sugar I have gotten is in there. I worked the past 3 nights so my partner did the shots but is unwilling to do the blood sugars, and sometimes despite a couple of pokes I don't get a drop- and I'm not willing to push it 'cause we're still training that ear pokes are OK. I allow it, because it's better than the shots being as much as 4 hours late, and my Zoey is pretty feisty now that he's feeling better.

Zo's unreliable about how much he eats, which just doesn't seem to be very much, and he's cruising on mostly pates with some supplemental prescription kibble for when he's just not eating the pate and I'm too worried to not feed him anything. Per facebook group advice, I'm going to start leaving some of the wet food out all the time (and picking up a couple of hours before shots) because he really needs to gain some serious weight.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm still worried about him, I'm glad we're going in on Tuesday so I can ask the vet some questions, and I'd like some reassurance that he'll fluff up again and we're on our way to a long & healthy life.
 
For the Vetsulin, are you rolling the bottle in your hands a few times to make sure it's mixed before drawing up the insulin into the syringe?

What foods has Zo been eating lately? Does he prefer kibble to wet food?
 
stop a moment and breathe, too -- as they keep telling me, this is a marathon not a sprint -- it's still early days for you, and since we can't see many mid cycle tests, it's also difficult to figure out what is happening throughout the cycles

it's tough when they won't eat -- is there any kind of food he DOES eat more of? sometimes it helps to add a "topper" to the food -- bonito flakes or parmesan/romano cheese or crumbled up freeze dried treats -- I've found it has to smell good INITIALLY though they'll eat more of the blander food below afterwards

when you go to the vet, it might make sense to discuss transitioning to a depot type insulin, which will give your cat a more constant flow of insulin hormone, particularly when you aren't getting intermediate tests but only having your partner shoot blind -- any way you can convince your partner that the preshot test are really crucial, particularly on Vetsulin which tends to drop the blood glucose fast and alarmingly low at times
 
JamieH said:
For the Vetsulin, are you rolling the bottle in your hands a few times to make sure it's mixed before drawing up the insulin into the syringe?

What foods has Zo been eating lately? Does he prefer kibble to wet food?
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Yeah, I make sure to gently roll/ agitate the bottle before use. I even made sure my lovely assistant knew to do that, too.

He's eating either the 'script dry kibble- which it appears he definitely prefers- or fancy feast/ friskies pates. I think a couple of times I knew his sugars were high 'cause he got into the other cat's kibble that got left available. I put the kibosh on that as soon as I figured that one out, so now they're both gonna be getting the pates. The other cat is totally stoked about this development.

I'm working on the partner trying to glucose test, but the cat has a good mind of his own so it's tricky. I'm going to have him help me with it more & more so he gets used to the idea. Maybe he'll start trying once it freaks him out less. I think I'll be able to guilt him into trying once our routine is better, the sugars are more controlled, and Zo is closer to a low level consistently so I can emphasize that we don't want him to go hypo. He already understands that low sugars are worse than high.

This morning at the vet was very much just a dropoff scenario. I asked them to use my glucometer too so we have a good idea of how the tests line up for future communication. Hopefully this afternoon we'll talk about results & changes with the vet so I can pester her a little.
 
New here but our experience with vet curves were awful, cat highly stressed, they even tried to give her a pill to calm her down and she got aggressive, nightmare experience so their readings weren't reliable anyway. New vet installed FreeLibre glucose monitor on her neck and I can scan her at will, has been amazingly great. Used three of the glucose monitors while vet was increasing Lantus and a little over two weeks ago, her numbers dropped into normal range and then dropped into dangerous low range three days so I stopped insulin altogether. I did notice that her numbers rose into 200s when I gave her 1/4 c of prescription dry Royal Canin. Did that twice, figured out that was why numbers were climbing so she is on Fancy Feast wet food now, no dry food. I also have her on Zobaline B12 and her weakness in legs is slowly improving. She jumped on the couch this morning to be next to me!
FYI, first vet had her on Vetsulin, next two vets preferred Lantus. We moved, reason for changing vets and changed vets again after nightmare curve experience. This board has been amazingly informative and more helpful than the three vets.
 
Pamiam said:
New here but our experience with vet curves were awful, cat highly stressed, they even tried to give her a pill to calm her down and she got aggressive, nightmare experience so their readings weren't reliable anyway. New vet installed FreeLibre glucose monitor on her neck and I can scan her at will, has been amazingly great. Used three of the glucose monitors while vet was increasing Lantus and a little over two weeks ago, her numbers dropped into normal range and then dropped into dangerous low range three days so I stopped insulin altogether. I did notice that her numbers rose into 200s when I gave her 1/4 c of prescription dry Royal Canin. Did that twice, figured out that was why numbers were climbing so she is on Fancy Feast wet food now, no dry food. I also have her on Zobaline B12 and her weakness in legs is slowly improving. She jumped on the couch this morning to be next to me!
FYI, first vet had her on Vetsulin, next two vets preferred Lantus. We moved, reason for changing vets and changed vets again after nightmare curve experience. This board has been amazingly informative and more helpful than the three vets.
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Pam, I'm so glad to hear Maggi is doing so well. Amazingly enough, sometimes a kitty gets very lucky and the diet change, plus a little insulin support is enough. Just posted on Pickle's Human thread last night regarding this very subject, and a description of what remission is and how it's determined.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-pickles-diet-controlled.219155/#post-2440632

You know, I'm certain, that once a diabetic always a diabetic, even if diet controlled. You just will need to be observant and test at least once a month, if not more often, just to be sure she is in normal BG numbers. Kudos to you and congratulations to Maggi for her journey to The Falls (remission).
Another week in normal numbers with no insulin and we can have an OTJ (off the juice) party.
Keep us updated so that we can celebrate with you, please.
 
Just seeing your post and checked the spreadsheet. I see you gave Zoey 1.5u of Vetsulin this AM on a pre-shot f 168. I would advise against giving insulin unless pre-shot BG is a minimum of 200 and until you get more data and can test pre-shots consistently and get some mid cycle tests, you might want to increase that slightly to 225. Please keep us posted on how Zoey is doing.

I noticed you raised the dose from 1 to 2u recently and wonder if that was at the vet's recommendation following an in office curve. In office curves are not reliable and usually give the vet the impression the cat needs more insulin leading to dose increases that are often too large. Doubling the dose is a huge increase. Insulin is a hormone not a medicine so unlike 2 aspirin working better than 1 for a headache, increasing insulin is like fashion often is too much insulin.

I understand it can be hard to test a cat who is less than co-operative but it is critical to get a test before every shot to ensure it is safe to give insulin and to get mid cycle tests whenever you can so you can determine how low BG is dropping on a given dose. Random testing at home will give you much better information than a vet curve and keep Zoey safe.
 
We did just do a vet curve, and she recommended 2u. She also checked my glucometer against hers and I'll be doing the next curve. I think I won't give 2u again, but sticking with 1.5. His predinner was 191 this evening, and I did just give him another 1.5, making sure he ate, and I'll keep an eye on him. I did check on him today when I shot him with the 1.5 to make sure everything was ok, and he did just fine.

I will try to get more mid-cycle numbers, but we're just getting into our routine of everything so I don't want to overwhelm him or me by trying too many times. There have been several stressful moments trying to get numbers on him.

/u/ MrWorfMen'sMom: how many cans of pate do you feed Menace? My Zo needs to get some weight on him, but he barely eats 2 cans a day and seems satisfied. We're having a hard time breaking kibble habits around here so I think there's some resistance going on.
 
SamuraiFox said:
We did just do a vet curve, and she recommended 2u. She also checked my glucometer against hers and I'll be doing the next curve. I think I won't give 2u again, but sticking with 1.5. His predinner was 191 this evening, and I did just give him another 1.5, making sure he ate, and I'll keep an eye on him. I did check on him today when I shot him with the 1.5 to make sure everything was ok, and he did just fine.

I will try to get more mid-cycle numbers, but we're just getting into our routine of everything so I don't want to overwhelm him or me by trying too many times. There have been several stressful moments trying to get numbers on him.

/u/ MrWorfMen'sMom: how many cans of pate do you feed Menace? My Zo needs to get some weight on him, but he barely eats 2 cans a day and seems satisfied. We're having a hard time breaking kibble habits around here so I think there's some resistance going on.
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@MrWorfMen's Mom
 
Amount you feed really can't be compared to another kitty. It depends on size and activity level and quite frankly Menace needed to lose a lb or so not gain and she is a medium to large kitty. Do you know what Zoey's ideal weght is? You can roughly calculate how many calories she needs per day by multiplying 13.6 X ideal weight in lbs +70. Then adjust calories up or down based on current weight and activity. So with an underweight active cat, you'd add more food or with an overweight inactive cat lessen portions. It's important to remember that a diabetic isn't utilizing the food they eat efficiently so they often need more food/calories to maintain their weight much less gain it.
Menace eats about 250 to 275 calories per day or roughly 2.5 to 3 cans of FF pates.

Not sure what prescription kibble you have but all of them are too high in carbs for diabetic cats. If you need to feed kibble (Menace was a total kibble addict and refused wet food for over 2+ years of our journey with diabetes), then I suggest you consider Young Again or Dr. Elsey's. Both companies will send you samples so you don't have to purchase a big bag to find out Zoey isn't a fan.

I understand testing can be stressful in the beginning but Vetsulin acts fast and drives BG down quickly and sharply. With the numbers you are currently getting I strongly recommend you test before every shot and get at a very minimum, a test before bed as many kitties go lower at night than they do during the day. Without testing you have no idea if the dose is too low or too high and Zoey's BG is getting much closer to normal at this point. You do not want her BG falling below 90 as that is the point where you need to intervene and give her food to keep BG from dropping further.

While high numbers are obviously not good, too low a BG can kill quickly. For Zoey's safety, testing is really crucial at this point in time.
 
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