02.07 Rufus AMPS 144! First time this low! +1.5 381, +3 449, +8 550 PMPS 569

Discussion in 'Lantus (Glargine) / Levemir (Detemir)' started by Sean & Rufus, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    You guys,

    Rufus has been diagnosed since Thanksgiving 2017. Never has he had a BG reading below 340. I haven't been checking him as often as I should because ears beat up, numbers not moving, discouraged, lazy. All the excuses. I keep getting told to check before shots but I wasn't really because numbers we're always high.

    This morning I decided to check. Thank you God! First time ever it has been this low! 144 and checked again and it was 162! Wasn't sure if I should give him his dose, and the emergency vet said to talk to regular vet first. So it looks like he won't get his am shot.

    This is so exciting! Hopefully a sign if good things to come :)
     
  2. Chubba

    Chubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Congrats on your lowest amps ever! How exciting for you and Rufus. :cool:
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  3. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Yay!!!!

    Did anything change recently? Maybe some of the support supplements have started to kick in?

    Very exciting!
     
  4. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I upped his dose from 5 to 5.5 Monday night. Otherwise not much. He had a bad appetite last night for his pm shot and really only ate some deli ham overnight. Pretty strange, but I'll take it :)
     
  5. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    It's a good thing you are testing. To be honest, I would take today's lower number as a warning about testing before shooting. You just never know what a kitty will do with his or her insulin, and the only way to be sure they are safe for insulin is to test before giving it. Fortunately, you and Rufus already know the deal with testing, so now it's just a matter of being consistent - for the sake of his safety. At the very least, the safest bet is to test before each shot, and at least one time during each cycle (day time and evening). I know it can be discouraging when you always see high numbers, but things can change in an instant, as Rufus showed you this morning.

    I totally understand not shooting today, but ultimately, these are the numbers you want to work towards - and even lower, once you see what Rufus is doing with his insulin during each cycle. With testing and learning how Rufus responds, you can get his numbers down to the normal range more consistently, which is overall better for his health.

    It sounds like that dose increase really kicked in. We usually to keep increases to .25u at a time - that way you don't bypass a good dose or don't suddenly end up overdosed with the potential for hypo.

    Have you read the stickies at the top of the forum? They are loaded with tons of great information, and we are always here to answer questions. Let us know how we can help!
     
  6. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Hi Sean, it looks like you have a couple of active posts today, so I am attaching for others to keep them updated...in this one, you commented that you did indeed shoot.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/too-small-of-dose-increase.190799/#post-2127347

    Can you please let us know approximately how long after your AMPS of 144 that you gave insulin, and how much? I see that you are using an AT2.

    This is very important: Please also get another test in an hour after you gave the insulin, and continue to monitor this morning. I know in past posts you were concerned about his ears, but for the sake of safety, you need to know where this dose of insulin is taking him. I also hope you have some high carb food on hand in case you need it. If your next number is lower than 144, I would start intervening with 1-2 teaspoons of food. It may be that Rufus was low last night, and that 144 is him coming back up, but with a higher dose and not much data, it is difficult to anticipate which way he will go this morning. Just my suggestions, as I am concerned for you and Rufus.
     
    Amy&TrixieCat likes this.
  7. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Thanks for your update and links, @Christie & Maverick - I was under the impression they didn't shoot.

    As Christie said, please keep up with testing today since you did shoot. And, even if you didn't, testing is a good idea to gather more information anyway!
     
    Christie & Maverick likes this.
  8. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Thanks! Vet tech called me and told me to shoot him. So, he got his dose an hour late this am.
     
  9. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    OK. As Christie mentioned, it is very important that you test at +1 to see where Rufus is going. You will most likely need to test beyond that as well, but a +1 can be a good indicator.

    Also, this evening remember to shoot 12 hours from when you actually shot this morning, especially with that dose increase. You can inch your way back to your usual shot time. My personal approach for doing that is to shoot 15 minutes early per cycle until you are back to your usual time.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  10. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Ok. Tested 1.5 after. First test 338, second test strip 424. My meter was weird with variance in numbers before, but was better the last week or so.

    So now I'm at a loss. And my regular vet just called an broke up with me. ugh.
     
  11. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Wow...that is quite a jump. What did you feed him this morning? Was it high carb?

    This might not be your meter - it could very well be a bounce from the lower-than-usual numbers that Rufus's body is not used to. If it's a bounce, that's OK...it's part of the process of getting used to insulin for many kitties.

    I would still continue to test today. This is a perfect opportunity to gather data on how Rufus responds to insulin.

    If you don't mind me asking, what happened with the vet?
     
    Sandy and Black Kitty likes this.
  12. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I definetly plan on testing all day.

    Long story short, vet doesn't like any "input" from anyone other then herself. Dental specialist and an er vet both think I should see a specialsit with his issues maybe being the cause for numbers to not go low. Rufus lost yet another tooth the other day, so I called dental specialist and that set off a chain that pissed off regular vet. I did a curve on sunday, gave the vet tech my paper on monday. Was told I'd get a call. Never did. So I thought I'd increase dose because it appeared 5 untis was not enough. She now says shes frustrated with me and I need to go to the specialst only now. I told her before Rufus likes tempation treats and deli meats. She said no more temptations and only deli meats. Gave him deli meat last night cuz he din't want regular food. Now that upset het too. She says I don't listen to her.
     
  13. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    Sounds like getting a new vet isn't a bad idea.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  14. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    I'm glad you'll be testing all day - it will be very good info to have.

    Sorry about the vet. A lot of vets don't like outside input, but it is odd that she doesn't like outside input from other vets. Hopefully you can find a vet that will work better with you.

    I do have to agree that Temptations aren't great for a diabetic kitty. Have you tried giving him freeze dried chicken for his treats? Many kitties her love them and they are low carb, so FD friendly.

    Did he get his regular Fancy Feast pate (low carb) for breakfast this morning, or did he get something higher carb? Just wondering if this is a bounce or a food spike.
     
  15. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Yeah, I feel like it's probably for the best. Just sad that it came to this. No real notice that we we're going to break up. I think (know) she doesn't like me giving any advice from here.
     
  16. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Sean:

    In all likelihood, the vet said no Temptations because they are crazy high in carbohydrates. Depending on how often you are giving Rufus Temptations, it may go a long way to explaining why his numbers are so high. Likewise, depending on what kind of deli meat you're giving Rufus, it may contain sugar. (Anything that's brined will contain whopping amounts of salt and sugar.)

    I can't imagine that no one has pointed out that raising Rufus' dose based on the lack of any PM cycle testing is a seriously bad idea. For those of us who look at a cat's spreadsheet any time before posting, Rufus' spreadsheet screams of a cat that is bouncing. Just as an example, Gabby could start a cycle with a pre-shot number in the 400s, drop to the 40s, and bounce back to the 400s. If I wasn't getting tests during the cycle, I would have raised her dose when a dose reduction was indicated.

    You really need to get at the absolute minimum, one test during the PM cycle in addition to your pre-shot test. Lantus dosing is based on the lowest number in the cycle. Not testing during the PM means you are missing half of your data. If you don't get some indication each and every cycle of where the numbers are heading, there's no conceivable way you can keep Rufus safe, let alone gauge his progress.
     
  17. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Yeah, I assumed if I went to the dental specialist (which she reffered me to), that they would be working together. Even when it was suggested to see a specialist, I thought it would be supplemental and all working together. I've only been going to her since September. I had a great previous vet but they are 35 mins away and with allt hat was going on with him (his underlying issues), it was nice that this vet is 2 minutes away. And I still have a test out on my other cat. I'm wondering at this point if my other cat is welcome there or what. I really feel that she broke up with me. So strange.

    He had a fancy feast beef breakfast. I did have a zobaline crushed in it and also 1/4 tsp of the young again probiotic. He did have 8mg of ondanstron at 8ish at which time I gave him 1 treat. Maybe that one treat pushed his numbers??

    He won't eat freeze dried treats. Tried numerous ones and no go :(
     
  18. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I totally get that tempations are bad. I was only giving him 2 at time, maybe 3 or 4 times a day. I didn't think it was that bad, but it could have been. I always look at the numbers on the deli meat. I couldn't find the numbers on this one, but it was spiral cut ham. I'll call the manufacturer. I do now plan on testing some during the pm.

    You think Rufus is bouncing? I guess I just assumed that since his numbers usually were in the 400's that they weren't budging. He did have better numbers on Sunday, but not that much better I thought.
     
  19. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    While Temptations are not good for FD kitties, I doubt just one pushed his numbers up that much. So this is a bounce that Rufus has going on. Sienne did a good job explaining it - and the importance of testing - above.

    Others may have treat ideas....
     
  20. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I'm off to search for what "bouncing" means...
     
  21. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    I'm not the best at explaining bouncing, but in a nutshell, when the body is used to being in high numbers, the liver sort of panics and dumps a bunch of glucose-like stuff (sorry, I can never remember the technical term) into the blood stream and this in turn causes BGs to spike up. It's an effort to protect the body from going hypoglycemic. This happens when numbers are lower than what the body is used to, but it can also happen if there is a steep drop in BGs, too, even if the end result of that drop is a higher number. Bouncing doesn't happen to all kitties, and it doesn't happen all the time. Over time, as the body gets used to lower numbers, bouncing usually adjusted and bouncing reduces, and most often resolves. However, some kitties never stop bouncing, but that's OK - it's just their adaptation of the sugar dance. Testing more will help you learn about how and when Rufus is bouncing, and hopefully over time his bouncing will stop and he'll give you nice flat safe curves.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  22. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Kind of makes sense. You explained it well, just need to wrap my head around the concept :) I'm going to get another test in here shortly.
     
    Amy&TrixieCat likes this.
  23. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Let us know what his next test says!

    Many folks here have dealt with bouncing, so you're not alone. They will share their tips and lend you a shoulder to lean on. (Trix wasn't a bouncer...one of the lucky few.)
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  24. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Updated, numbers are higher yet :(
     
  25. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Ok, so the ham I feed him has 3g sugar per 2 oz. I gave him .25 ounces. Do you think that is ok? Or are we looking to feed 0 sugar?
     
  26. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Yep, that is quite a bounce. I know it's discouraging to see - but it also means he is seeing some good numbers in there. Now the trick is to use testing to see when he's bouncing so you can reign in the numbers. I would continue testing today to gather data - it can only help.
     
  27. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Also, with regard to bouncing - sometimes it can take up to 3 days (or 6 cycles) for a bounce to clear. As Rufus gets used to lower numbers, the time it takes to clear bounces should reduce.

    This is another reason why testing is important. You don't want to increase a dose based on a bounce, but rather on accurate BGs. So when you're testing frequently, you will know if the numbers are bouncing or genuine readings. The reason you don't want to increase on a bounce is because bounces produce artificially inflated numbers, and therefore increasing based on bounce numbers can actually result in dropping too low. I hope that makes sense.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  28. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Just got off the phone with old vet. She said I should not have given him his insulin the am. Now I feel bad. I feel all these test numbers are fake now. Should I just no even him dose him tonight to see if that lowers his numbers? My concern is pmps is high, do I dose becasuse it might keep numbers high, if it's low do I dose? This all so confusing.
     
  29. Carol in Chicago

    Carol in Chicago Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    You should find a ham with 0 sugar. Sounds like this may be honey ham. :eek:

    You didn't hurt him, but there is a better choice in terms of deli meat - go for something with 0g sugar.
     
  30. Carol in Chicago

    Carol in Chicago Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2017
    No - don't feel bad. You need to monitor and get the data. You have some very experienced people guiding you now. Please take advantage of their expertise. They are all trying to help you help Rufus.
     
  31. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    It was a spiral cut ham. I assumed it would have been low. ugh. He won't eat deli chicken (because he's weird), and can't have deli turkey. Nothing is ever easy, is it :)
     
  32. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Important question-

    Are you checking for ketones?
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  33. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2016
    I'm sorry. I know how confusing it is to hear all these different voices!

    Your vet was concerned because she's focused-- rightly-- on safety, and is using a set of expectations derived from average pet owners. "Average" pet owners don't test, or test very infrequently, and need a pretty big safety margin. You're an above average pet owner, though, and because you were prepared to monitor after shooting, it wasn't unreasonable to shoot. That said, as others have mentioned, you do need more data to be able to shoot and dose safely and effectively-- not necessarily a lot more tests, but a more focused approach to testing. Always a before-shot test, and at least one test in between shots to see how things are going.

    I wouldn't skip tonight's shot, although of course let's see where he is then. He's likely to stay high, but we'll see. There's no reason to not shoot if he's high, just the opposite. Once he's in a bounce (as he is now), more insulin isn't going to make the bounce worse if that's what you are worried about, instead it will help to counteract it and (eventually) bring him back down. Bouncing does make it hard to judge what a dose is doing, the only way forward is to keep getting data until the patterns become more clear.

    Seconded. Any time a diabetic cat is running in high numbers and is at all inappetent, ketones are a worry, but you should be checking regularly regardless.

    Hang in there!
     
  34. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Ugh. You should not feel bad. You gave insulin (which many do, even with numbers much lower than this), AND you took measures (testing) to make sure Rufus was safe. That is how FD is. Not to mention, wasn't it one of her techs who told you to dose????

    These numbers are not fake. They are what is really happening with Rufus right now, and it is important data to have so that you can start seeing trends and patterns - then you can tailor treatment specifically to Rufus.

    I would not skip insulin tonight. That will makes his numbers even wonkier. Lantus works best when dosed every 12 hours, so if you start randomly skipping shots for no reason (noting that there CAN be reasons to skip, such as low BGs), it will confuse Rufus's body even further. Of course we do have to actually see where Rufus is this evening, but if his current trend continues, then yes, he should get insulin tonight.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  35. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I have the strips. Just bought them the other day, but haven't yet. I'll do it today!
     
    Amy&TrixieCat likes this.
  36. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    The "new" vet vet tech told me dose, when I called my old vet to tell her I'm coming back to her, she said I should not have dosed.

    I know the numbers aren't fake, I guess what I meant was he was in lower numbers without the insulin, so is it being high artificially. I was wondering if I skipped a dose, maybe his body would calm down and lower the numbers on its own. That's the part I can not wrap my head around.
     
  37. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    I'm not super strong with explaining bouncing, so I will try to get some bounce-experienced eyes here. But basically, no - skipping this morning's dose would not have prevented the bounce.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  38. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    here is an explanation from the info sticky:

    Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).

    As @Amy&TrixieCat mentioned, these numbers are not fake, you are seeing today part of a pattern that likely has been going on for a few weeks, at least. This is why many of us suggested a while back in your main forum post, that testing is very important to understanding how your cat responds to insulin, before you make any dosing decisions.
     
  39. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    OK. I thought I was doing better on getting test numbers, then my vet told me to slow down and not do any for a while. That's why there is some open space. I'm going to do amps & pmps checks from now on and try to get 2 during the day and at least 1 hopefully 2 at pm.

    The bounce part that confuses me is this. If he was at 144 and then I gave him insulin later, why would his body dump the sugar then? I guess I should have tested gain before the shot, but that's why I am confused. I guess what your saying is I just for the luck of God caught him a rare state where his body had yet to dump the sugar, and for me to see it happening? Does that make sense?
     
  40. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    You are doing better :bighug:, I'm sorry if I came across as harsh, I personally didn't agree with your vet's approach to not testing, and then suggesting to you to keep increasing the dose :woot:. I suspect the body started dumping the sugar before your AMPS of 144, to me he likely went lower overnight. The bounces can take up to 6 cycles (3 days) to clear. Again, it's not just hitting a low number... let's say he was at 500 at your preshot last night (although we didn't see a test), you gave insulin, then he started dropping to a number he isn't used to...that sharp drop alone can cause a bounce, and the kitty ends up staying in higher numbers where is it more "comfortable". I hope I have explained my understanding, but would like others to chime in if it isn't all that clear or accurate.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  41. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Since Lantus takes about 2 hours after the injection to kick in, his body was probably already in the process of starting the bounce before you shot. Sometimes/often times even after you shoot, you will see a bounce (that's where the "it can take 3 days/6 cycles to clear a bounce" comes in).

    The thing is, we don't know how low he actually went last night, so he could have already been on the way up even when you got the 144.

    Many vets discourage frequent testing. Honestly, that scares the you-know-what out of me. It doesn't hurt to test; it becomes a bonding experience with the caregiver and kitty; and it keeps the cat safe. Insulin is powerful and potentially dangerous if used incorrectly; testing greatly reduces (if not eliminates) that danger. As important as vets are in caring for our kitties, this tends to be a pretty common area where we disagree. One question we often would consider posing to vets who discourage testing is: Would shoot insulin into their child without testing? I guess most vets think caregivers either won't follow through, or they have a big misconception about how cats respond to testing.

    Testing will give you valuable data to help get Rufus's BGs inline, AND it will keep him safe.
     
  42. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Amy&TrixieCat likes this.
  43. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    LOL...we posted basically the same thing at the same time...sharing a brain!
     
    Christie & Maverick likes this.
  44. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    No no not harsh at all. It's just I wasn't seeing too much improvement (or maybe there was) and vet was saying not to test, so that's why I didn't. After today I truly see the importance of it. I'm going back to my "old" vet after I see the specialist. She told me they encourage home testing from day 1. So there's a plus.

    I guess my biggest frustration in all of this is all the different advice. I totally love the people on this board and the awesome advice, but I can't really "use" it unless my vet was on board with it, which most of the time she wasn't. So I'd see things on here and then get ideas, and that would make her mad. She said she frustrated with me. I can't even be a team with her. Her way or the highway. Sad situation. Glad she broke up with me today :)
     
    Amy&TrixieCat likes this.
  45. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    I think we've all ultimately ended up with a mixed-bag of how we address our kitty's FD. As I said our vets are very important, no doubt, but the people on the board here live with FD day in and day out and many vets have very minimal training and experience with it. I relied on a combination of the two to care for Trixie's FD, and because of that she did wonderfully for a very long time.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  46. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    And that's what I said to her. The people on the board live everyday with these cats. They know things. Her response was that they don't have schooling and license. I know most of her frustration was me being discouraged on the lack of progress, which wasn't her fault (maybe), but she didn't share her thoughts or ideas with me very well.
     
  47. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Sometimes you kind of have to tip toe around certain ideas with vets (and human doctors, too). You don't want to step on their toes because you do need them for care, but ultimately, though, you live with Rufus. It always amazing me that vets discourage someone who wants to test....someone who wants to go above and beyond for their kitty. (Another train of thought for another day, though.) There are vets who will work with you, too, though...and it sounds like the old vet could be the way to go.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  48. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I see you mentioned elsewhere that Rufus's ears were looking pretty sore. Have you been using Neosporin with pain relief on them after you poke? It can really help the healing process. I used to alternate ears, give the other one a chance to heal.

    I really like Neko's vet for most things, but we diverged on the concept of dosing. She was all for home testing, but I was her first client to do so, which meant she had no idea what daily blood sugar logs could look like. Throw in the fact that Neko had a couple of conditions she thought were rare (acromegaly, IAA) and it just became simpler for me to handle the dosing (with help from here), and the vet did everything else. I used to drop the spreadsheet off every week or two at first, then that stopped, once she saw that I was getting good data to make dosing decisions.
     
  49. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I haven't used the neosporin, but I do have some here. I think this split will be good for both of us. Frustrated with each other. She has dealt with other diabetic animals, but not sure one that has issues like Rufus. And it helps that I do really like my old vet, and they are feline only there.
     
  50. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I asked in the main forum, but i'll ask here too and then delete whichever doesn't get a response. Ketone test strip. Came back inbetween neg and trace. Hard to tell. At which reading do we get concerned?
     
  51. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    I recommend you always post here in L&LL first - lots of folks here very experienced in all things FD...and who now are becoming familiar with Rufus. If it's an emergency (life threatening) tag your condo header with the 911 icon. If no response here by all means cross-post in Health.

    Anything above trace warrants a call to your vet. You do not want to delay taking action.
    Please incorporate at least 1 ketone test each day into your new routine. Ketones can quickly develop to life threatening levels. I found it helpful to read the strip near a window - the natural light made it easier to tell if the reading was negative or trace...there is a certain 'glow' the strip takes on when the reading is 'trace' that is not present if negative.
    My BK once went from 'negative' to 'large' in 24 hours (below is a snippet from his ss) things quickly developed to DKA and he almost lost his life.

    ketone development.png
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  52. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Oh wow! Glad you caught it in time!
     
  53. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Have you tried bonito flakes?
     
  54. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    I haven't heard of those. But I was told to stay away from beef, fish, and turkey for now. I'll ask the specialist what she thinks about them!
     
  55. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Bonito flakes are tuna so they are on your "stay away" from list.

    Orijen and ZiwiPeak make boar and lamb treats, respectively.
     
  56. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    We've tried 4 or 5 brands, and different proteins. He has zero interest in these freeze dried treats. The ZiwiPeak looks interesting. Kind of like a beef jerky?
     
  57. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, it's like a jerky style treat. PureBites e also has a freeze dried duck treat. Orijen's lamb and boar are freeze dried.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  58. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    So yeah, I'm super confused. AMPS 144, give insulin and numbers go high, high, higher. If it was a bounce, wouldn't they at some point gone down? I'm going to try real hard to get a late pm bg, but I have a 4 hour interview tomorrow and don't want to sleep bad tonight.
     
  59. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    The bounce will break...eventually. Sometimes it can take up to 3 days, though. The thing is, when a bounce breaks, it can be sudden, so you don't want to become complacent just because you see a high number at shot time. We know that this dose can get Rufus down to at least 144, if not lower, so you definitely should get at least a before-bed test in tonight, and if that is notably lower than his pre-shot, you'll want to test again to make sure he's safe. If you recall, Sienne mentioned earlier that her kitty could go from 400 to 40 and back up to 400 all in one 12-hour cycle.

    Good luck with the interview...fingers crossed Rufus helps you out!
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  60. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Thank you! I'll definelty get another test in, in about 2 hours, I guess this is the time I don't want to see a huge drop. (I feel really horrible typing that :( )
     
  61. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    We've all had that thought...we say our kitty gave us a permission slip to do something (go out, go to sleep, etc) when they don't dive on us. Of course, though a nice non-black surf would be nice to see here!
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  62. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    True, pinks would great right about now! This really isn't a good time to be without a vet. Rufus 1st appt with the specialist is next Wed. I'm going to be relying on the nice people here for help :)
     
  63. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    We are happy to help as much as we can...don't hesitate to ask questions about anything!
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.

Share This Page