09/06 Shmee AMBG 146, +2 65, +3 65

Amanda & Shmee

Amanda & Shmee

Very Active Member
Previous condo

Good morning L&L,
Shmee is supposed to have a 1/4 pill of Cerenia today around 11am but according to multiple people it is gross tasting so I don't even think I am going to try... I originally told her I would like the shot but she said the shot stings and the pill has no taste. I still don't know if I should even try it... He is already getting the two liquid medications and the probiotic in his food, I don't think I want to risk losing his trust. I might just tell my vet I tried and he won't eat it, and ask if I can come pickup a few shots on my lunchbreak..

The vet also has him on Gaba for pain... so I hate that he is going to be mopey/sedated again today... but if that makes him feel better I am ok with it. I am still not convinced it does though, as last night he still meowed sad when I picked him up, and he did not sleep in bed with me. He has not slept with me for two nights. My vet called me last night to make an appointment for the bloodwork (Monday evening) and I asked about Bupe versus Gaba. She said the difference is Bupe is an opioid, and it also has sedative properties. I honestly think that no matter what I ask about she just really likes to do things her way.... so I would like to get your thoughts. What are the differences between Bupe and Gaba for pain?

And as for insulin, since he dropped rapidly yesterday with only .1, Dr. McCue and my vet agree I should hold off. They said I might only have to give him insulin whenever he needs it.... which I really do not want. If he is going to go off it, I want to do it right, and have him be off it for good. But since he isn't feeling well right now I guess I cannot worry about that.

Ana & Frosty said:
Does he meow when you press on his abdomen? Or just when you pick him up?
Click to expand...
​
I just tried and he was mad at me for disturbing him laying down... lol so I have to try when he is up and about. Which isn't much now a days... except when I am getting him more food. I will try today.
 
Last edited:
+2 65 :eek:. Geez Shmee. Gave half of his +3 meal early and 1 TBSP HC.

He can barely walk from the Gaba.... I hate seeing him like this. Curious if Bupe would be any better. @Ana & Frosty I felt and pushed around his abdomen and it did not seem to bother him right now. But he's pretty weak and out of it from the Gaba, which I guess is a good thing if he was in pain before...
 
Amanda & Shmee said:
Curious if Bupe would be any better
Click to expand...
Like I said yesterday - I don't know anything about Gaba but Bupe (all opioids) can cause constipation. All pain meds make Gizmo dopey/mopey. I am currently giving just a tiny, tiny bit after his last PM wet food (@ +4.5). It does seem to help. I am giving for panc flare.

Gizmo's pain meds it oral Torbugesic. My original vet prescribed it vs. bupe because it is less expensive. The last bottle I got from Diamondback, compounded with NO sugar (liver flavor - yum :eek::rolleyes:). It is stronger than his first bottle. I am considering asking for a trans-dermal (you rub it on the inside of the ear) pain med.
 
Mandy & Rex said:
If you aren't giving insulin, then you don't need to give HC. Shmee's numbers are looking good. I don't know about the meds.
Click to expand...
Really! Oh geez I just gave him another TBSP :facepalm: I didn't want him to get too low...

LizzieInTexas said:
Like I said yesterday - I don't know anything about Gaba but Bupe (all opioids) can cause constipation. All pain meds make Gizmo dopey/mopey. I am currently giving just a tiny, tiny bit after his last PM wet food (@ +4.5). It does seem to help. I am giving for panc flare.

Gizmo's pain meds it oral Torbugesic. My original vet prescribed it vs. bupe because it is less expensive. The last bottle I got from Diamondback, compounded with NO sugar (liver flavor - yum :eek::rolleyes:). It is stronger than his first bottle. I am considering asking for a trans-dermal (you rub it on the inside of the ear) pain med.
Click to expand...
Ok thanks for the info, if both will make him mopey I should probably just stick with the Gaba then. That trans-dermal option sounds interesting, much easier that's for sure. That would be great.
 
When I used the bupe on the civvie...it made her nuts...really she went off the rails and started attacking the water fountain.

I have never used gabepetin in a cat only a dog for her arthritis, but the IM indicated that it was more of a mild sedative for a cat at the pill size that Jones decided to eat off the floor one time, which I assume is a standard dosage size.

I just put Jones' cerenia in a capsule - size 3 with his other meds...one pill and done.

Poor Shmee, I hope he feels better soon.
 
Amanda & Shmee said:
That trans-dermal option sounds interesting, much easier that's for sure.
Click to expand...
If your vet will call it in here is one place you can get it.

https://www.diamondbackdrugs.com

Is the gaba liquid or pill? If liquid you don't have to give him the full prescribed dose, you could reduce it a bit. My vet once told me "if two Advil gets rid of your headache, why would you takes eight?" :smuggrin: if liquid be sure you are shaking very well before measuring out the dose.

If pill, check with your vet to see if you can split it or quarter it. Some pills cannot (should not) be split.

Gizmo is (seems to be) extremely sensitive to meds. Shmee may be one of those also.
 
Tracey&Jones said:
When I used the bupe on the civvie...it made her nuts...really she went off the rails and started attacking the water fountain.

I have never used gabepetin in a cat only a dog for her arthritis, but the IM indicated that it was more of a mild sedative for a cat at the pill size that Jones decided to eat off the floor one time, which I assume is a standard dosage size.

I just put Jones' cerenia in a capsule - size 3 with his other meds...one pill and done.

Poor Shmee, I hope he feels better soon.
Click to expand...
Oh wow :/ Ugh well that makes me feel better about the Gaba at least.
I just tried the pill in food. He didn't eat it. Ugh I wish the vet would have just took my request and gave me the shot. About to call up there and see if I can pick some shots up on my lunch break.
 
Actually since I already paid for the pills, I think I am just going to try and give him one orally with water to flush it down since they are so small. Hopefully we will only have to do this a few days so it shouldn't be too bad. I just called and asked the vet if it was safe since he ate a tiny bit of it already in the food. Waiting on the call back.
 
Amanda & Shmee said:
Actually since I already paid for the pills, I think I am just going to try and give him one orally with water to flush it down since they are so small. Hopefully we will only have to do this a few days so it shouldn't be too bad. I just called and asked the vet if it was safe since he ate a tiny bit of it already in the food. Waiting on the call back.
Click to expand...
Have you tried Pill Pockets? My civvie used to get his thyroid supplements wrapped in a piece of Pill Pocket. No fail, he was always waiting for me at the dosing times (6 AM/PM). He loved them!!
 
Amanda & Shmee said:
Actually since I already paid for the pills, I think I am just going to try and give him one orally with water to flush it down since they are so small. Hopefully we will only have to do this a few days so it shouldn't be too bad. I just called and asked the vet if it was safe since he ate a tiny bit of it already in the food. Waiting on the call back.
Click to expand...
I would give him a good amount of liquid before the pill....how about some tuna juice with no broth in it...just tuna, water, salt...or even some baby food. Then pill quickly and follow with some baby food or tuna juice. As long as he doesn’t crunch down on it, he should be fine.

I’ve used gabapentin, tramadol, and bupe for pain and the one I, personally, prefer is bupe because it has such a nice dose ranging. I got mine compounded into a flavored liquid with no artificial sweeteners...or sweeteners of any kind, and that easily allowed me to vary the dose within the range. Because I gave a low maintenance dose to my kitty with arthritis, he never was groggy and he’s nevertheless was constipated. It’s when you are giving higher doses that you can run into issues. That’s the only pain med I will use.
 
A
Amanda & Shmee said:
Previous condo

Good morning L&L,
Shmee is supposed to have a 1/4 pill of Cerenia today around 11am but according to multiple people it is gross tasting so I don't even think I am going to try... I originally told her I would like the shot but she said the shot stings and the pill has no taste. I still don't know if I should even try it... He is already getting the two liquid medications and the probiotic in his food, I don't think I want to risk losing his trust. I might just tell my vet I tried and he won't eat it, and ask if I can come pickup a few shots on my lunchbreak..

The vet also has him on Gaba for pain... so I hate that he is going to be mopey/sedated again today... but if that makes him feel better I am ok with it. I am still not convinced it does though, as last night he still meowed sad when I picked him up, and he did not sleep in bed with me. He has not slept with me for two nights. My vet called me last night to make an appointment for the bloodwork (Monday evening) and I asked about Bupe versus Gaba. She said the difference is Bupe is an opioid, and it also has sedative properties. I honestly think that no matter what I ask about she just really likes to do things her way.... so I would like to get your thoughts. What are the differences between Bupe and Gaba for pain?

And as for insulin, since he dropped rapidly yesterday with only .1, Dr. McCue and my vet agree I should hold off. They said I might only have to give him insulin whenever he needs it.... which I really do not want. If he is going to go off it, I want to do it right, and have him be off it for good. But since he isn't feeling well right now I guess I cannot worry about that.

​
I just tried and he was mad at me for disturbing him laying down... lol so I have to try when he is up and about. Which isn't much now a days... except when I am getting him more food. I will try today.
Click to expand...
Amanda - Merlin takes Cerenia all the time. We crush it with a pill crusher and mix a little baby food with it. He laps it right up. I know baby food has cornstarch, but just maybe a teaspoon will do the trick for Shmee. Cerenia is good stuff. Good luck!
 
Leo had bupe last year after his abdominal surgery. It seemed to help him. As others said, it causes constipation.

The cerenia just made Leo feel weird and did not help his appetite. I hope it works for Shmee.
 
How much gabapentin are you giving? I give Olive 12.5 mg every 12 hrs. She's not groggy but was never active much anyways. She is definitely more comfortable. I've read from others that the grogginess lifts as they get use to it if given consistently. I have not used bupre on her but did on previous kitty Smokey. He was on bupre, a low dose daily and he did find with it.
 
I did end up just giving it to him orally coated in butter, and washed it down with water. Since he was on the Gaba and a little sleepy anyway he did great. Thank you for giving me all your experiences! Since I have the Gaba I will stick with it. And today he did seem like his stomach (or whatever was bothering him) wasn't bothering him, which is good. I don't know if it was the Gaba or Cerenia that helped, but it seems like both did their jobs. Hes been pretty lazy all day since he's drowsy from the Gaba, although about an hour or so ago he got up and went to his cat tree, used his scratcher, and climbed up to the window. So that is great to see. I am really worried once he goes off the meds in a few days he will feel like crap again... but I hope not. Hopefully whatever was bothering him will have run its course by then, and its not something major. I just realized I never really posted photos of him since the surgery, I will definitely do that tomorrow! For his PM meal, he didn't eat it all, he ate about half. It has his meds in it.... so hopefully he goes back and eats the rest soon. Its a double edged sword - I am happy he is not ridiculously hungry like he has been, but I need him to eat his meds! And it makes me wonder why hes not super hungry anymore! Lol it never ends.... I know, I need to take a chill pill :)
 
Side note I keep forgetting to mention - he has been drooling. I wouldn't say a lot, but I wouldn't say a little either... I mentioned it to my vet and she pretty much shrugged it off. I just noticed it again so I thought I would mention it. When we checked his stiches yesterday they looked great.. When he has the Gaba in him tomorrow I will check them again.
 
Amanda & Shmee said:
+2 65 :eek:. Geez Shmee. Gave half of his +3 meal early and 1 TBSP HC.

He can barely walk from the Gaba.... I hate seeing him like this. Curious if Bupe would be any better. @Ana & Frosty I felt and pushed around his abdomen and it did not seem to bother him right now. But he's pretty weak and out of it from the Gaba, which I guess is a good thing if he was in pain before...
Click to expand...
I think it's a good sign that he's not tender. either the pain is better from the gaba, or maybe it wasn't his stomach, but either way, this is good. I can only talk about humans, but if a human has pancreatitis, even with pain meds they will still be uncomfortable when you press on the upper part of their abdomen. Pain meds (opioids) take a good amount of pain away but not completely. So the fact that his belly isn't tender to touch is a good sign.

As for difference between opioids and gabapentin, opioids affect the opioid receptors and gabapentin works on the GABA receptors. Doesn't really help, does it LOL. It basically works differently. Opiates are considered stronger and tend to knock someone out more, are more addictive which means someone can become tolerant to them and can cause someone to be more drowsy, and also causes constipation. Gabapentin is really better for neuropathic pain, but my vet told me that theres evidence it helps with anxiety in cats so it may work differently in animals. That would be a better question for the vet. But long story short, opioids are stronger and more sedating. You want to use the least strong medication you need for pain. Opiates are usually given as a last resort.

Also, whoever above said not to worry about low numbers if he is not getting insulin is eating, they're right. It really looks like he's going into remission! When it comes to SRT, surgery, or Vetoryl for our cats with hormone secreting pituitary tumors, the insulin protocols here do not apply These protocols have been created for regular diabetic cats. Thus, always err on the side of caution with insulin after surgery or any procedure that will rapidly reduce the excess hormones produced by the tumor. Not to scare you, but in case of Cushing's, there was a kitty who went on Vetoryl and went dangerously hypo. She had other medical problems too which may have contributed, but we speculate it may have been at least in part because Vetoryl started working quickly and her insulin depot became a problem. So I would not give any insulin unless you really see a trend upward, and definitely after discussing with the vet. (Again, these are special circumstances that are not accounted for in the protocol here.)
 
Amanda & Shmee said:
Side note I keep forgetting to mention - he has been drooling. I wouldn't say a lot, but I wouldn't say a little either... I mentioned it to my vet and she pretty much shrugged it off. I just noticed it again so I thought I would mention it. When we checked his stiches yesterday they looked great.. When he has the Gaba in him tomorrow I will check them again.
Click to expand...
This makes me think that he is having mouth pain rather than stomach pain. Even if there is no infection it may still be uncomfortable just because it's still fresh, and may explain the not eating. I would keep an eye on that, and maybe let dr. McCue know if it doesn't get better or worsens. My non diabetic Bella had an infection in her mouth a year or so ago and was drooling a lot. After antibiotics it stopped.
 
Amanda & Shmee said:
Lol it never ends.... I know, I need to take a chill pill :)
Click to expand...
If you find that chill pill please let me know :) I'm only really good at giving advice when I'm the third party and it's not my cat. If it's my cat all my knowledge and critical thinking skills go out the window. :facepalm: Frosty is supposed to have his abdominal US with sedation on Saturday and I'm already sick about it. Idk what's worse, that or the fact that I can't feed him that morning. He's gonna go NUTS. Even if his belly is OK I honestly don't know if I can handle him going through this surgery just based on what I am reading. You are so amazing and brave. I envy you. :bighug::arghh::banghead:
 
I tried both bupe and gaba with Neko. She needed a long term solution for arthritis. Gaba made her sleepy, not so great for her arthritis pain. Bupe worked. She had a higher dose, but a little pumpkin kept her regular. It didn't make her sleepy. I think pain meds are ECID.

Good call on the skip today. I think you can put the HC away in the cupboard. His pancreas did well today. If you can, try feeding him a small snack at +8-9 each cycle to see if you can get that pancreas to lower the PS values. Let's call this a food trial, without insulin for now, unless he goes a lot higher. Shouldn't have much depot now. :cool:
 
Amanda & Shmee said:
I did end up just giving it to him orally coated in butter, and washed it down with water. Since he was on the Gaba and a little sleepy anyway he did great. Thank you for giving me all your experiences! Since I have the Gaba I will stick with it. And today he did seem like his stomach (or whatever was bothering him) wasn't bothering him, which is good. I don't know if it was the Gaba or Cerenia that helped, but it seems like both did their jobs. Hes been pretty lazy all day since he's drowsy from the Gaba, although about an hour or so ago he got up and went to his cat tree, used his scratcher, and climbed up to the window. So that is great to see. I am really worried once he goes off the meds in a few days he will feel like crap again... but I hope not. Hopefully whatever was bothering him will have run its course by then, and its not something major. I just realized I never really posted photos of him since the surgery, I will definitely do that tomorrow! For his PM meal, he didn't eat it all, he ate about half. It has his meds in it.... so hopefully he goes back and eats the rest soon. Its a double edged sword - I am happy he is not ridiculously hungry like he has been, but I need him to eat his meds! And it makes me wonder why hes not super hungry anymore! Lol it never ends.... I know, I need to take a chill pill :)
Click to expand...
Coated in something that will help it go down smooth was a good idea. All pills should be flushed somehow like that. And if I were you, I’d be analyzing everything as well so you don’t need to take a chill pill. You are doing exactly what you should be doing. Once he settles down, then you can chill. I’m glad you have each other.
 
Phoebes Gaba comes in a capsule, it's a 100mg capsule. I divide it in half and put it in a #4 gel cap. I feel like a drug dealer cutting the dope. Lol. It made Phoebe groggy in the beginning. Now she's 10 foot tall and bulletproof. She also gets bupe compounded into gel, we rub it in her ear. That makes her a little sleepy but she gets around better with it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top