1/31 Boomer AMPS 126 +3 88 +6 86 PMPS 85 +3 94 Allen's results not good news

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Judy and Boomer

Judy and Boomer

Member Since 2014
Yesterday
Good morning!

AMPS 126:eek::( shooting .75u
Today when setting up the auto feeder I set up a snack instead of a meal for +9. It worked before in bringing his PS numbers down; let's see if it helps this time. If it doesn't, he's cruising for a dosecrease:(

I was reviewing the ss this morning; I was sure that I had noted when I started a new vial of insulin. I know it was when he was starting juice again after OTJ but he did that a couple of times last year in July and then again in November. Going back through his OTJ/on the juice timeline, I'm pretty sure the vial I'm using is from July 2016. So I'm wondering if it's losing it's potency.

Boomer "sang" last night again after his 2:00 foods but he didn't come to the bedroom doorway so I presumed it didn't have anything to do with his food. He did eat most of his food last night but left a bit in each dish.

We haven't received Allen's test results back yet; b/w was last Wednesday and we were told "up to a week" for the results so we should hear today. Allen seems fine and has been pooping every day (although the litters haven't been cleaned yet today so I don't know whether there was one last night) and he seems like his old self except for 2 things.....we used to spend all morning letting him in and out of the laundry room because he wanted to graze all morning. He doesn't do that now so much. And his affection level has gone down....he used to crawl all over DH every time DH sat down....he really liked to cuddle with DH and gave all kinds of hugs (aka head butts) etc but he's not doing that much now. I meant to weigh him (and Boomer) this morning but didn't think of it until I was already getting food ready. So hopefully tomorrow.

Today on this Bean's agenda: editing the baby pictures. I didn't have it in me yesterday; I was just too tired. I did do the sneak peek for them yesterday morning so I'm attaching it here. I really feel the need to get out for a walk but it's cold and snowing :p
 

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Fingers crossed that you will get Allen's results today and that it's good news! I hate waiting for results. Iris's culture was done last Tuesday and they told me the same thing: up to a week. I really hope that the vet has the results when I bring in Capone today.
 
I might get a new vile too Judy. Hope you get Allen's BW back today, it's painful waiting for the results. Certainly hope the little man starts acting like himself soon. Good luck editing today and maybe a nap too!
 
Goos BW vines coming for Allen - a week is a long time! I'm glad most of him seems normal; hopefully he'll be back to snuggling soon.

Boomer...work that juice. 'Nuff said!

Good luck editing today, Judy!
 
Sounds like you should try a new vial if that is that old. I threw one out when Bubba started back on the juice again that was almost 6 months old. Hope that helps.

Sending good BW vines for Allen and glad he's pooping and hope that all is good with his personality change.

The photo is adorable and she looks like a little Indian Princess in her red papoose.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I might get a new vile too Judy. Hope you get Allen's BW back today, it's painful waiting for the results. Certainly hope the little man starts acting like himself soon. Good luck editing today and maybe a nap too!
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So......if I get a new vial of insulin.....what dose do I start off with?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I would probably stay with where you are and monitor at +2 or +3 to get an idea. It might be that you'll have to reduce him or it might be that he'll just give you all greens for a week and earn a reduction.
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Or it might be that it's not the insulin at all but entirely Boomer's pancreas :(
 
When I set up Boomer's auto feeders today, I gave him a snack instead of a meal at +9. I'll do the same thing tonight. Hopefully it will make a difference at PS.
 
Come on Boomer work the juice or you will be getting the dosecrease with Lincoln... cute picture ... hope you have a great day... and praying for good results for Allen :bighug::bighug:
 
Allen's ionized calcium and PTH results....PTH zero. Ionized calcium
1.78 mmol/L. Normal is between 1.00 & 1.40
Dr Larry consulted an internal medicine specialist and she indicates 80% that it's lymphoma due to the level of Ionized calcium and the weight loss.
@@Marje and Gracie I would very much appreciate your assistance!

I know there are members here who have experience with lymphoma. I have all of my questions and Dr Larry's answers in a text message.
 
Oh Judy! I am sorry! I know nothing about lymphoma but I know that others on here have been able to treat their babies. Prayers and hugs to you! Scritches and kisses to Allen!
 
{{{Judy}}}

I'm so sorry the news on Allen wasn't better. Did they say if they suspect what kind of lymphoma it is? Large cell, small cell or medium cell (yes, they come in sizes)? Where is it, do you know? Usually they have to do an ultrasound if it's in the intestine, to determine which section it's in. Then, to narrow down what kind it is, they do a biopsy. If it's in the upper section, they go down the throat. If it's in the lower section, they go in from the other end, and if it's in the middle they have to do it surgically. Lucky us, Harvey's was in the middle, but he came through the procedure beautifully.

Harvey had intestinal lymphoma, Cinco had ocular lymphoma that spread to his nasal passages and Minka had renal lymphoma, so I have had a lot of experience with it. Ask me anything. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Looks like the dosecrease threat worked! Nice job, Boomer. :D
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Large cell, small cell or medium cell (yes, they come in sizes)? Where is it, do you know?
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No he didn't mention it and no we don't know where it is. I'm thinking that, because of his constipation (which has been ok for a week now) it is likely intestinal but I'm guessing. I don't know squat about this. May I pm you and send you the complete conversation between Dr Larry and I?
 
{{{Judy}}} so sorry to hear about a possible lymphoma diagnosis.:bighug: I have experience with two kitties with intestinal lymphoma, Neko and civie Theo. Civie Theo is currently in remission. I echo Tricia that an ultrasound is the next step, if they think it might be intestinal lymphoma. Biopsy (surgical or endoscopy ) is the best way to go for diagnosis, if they see thickening. The location of the bowel thickening is also telling. Neither Neko nore Theo had a proper biopsy. Neko couldn't have it because her heart block meant she could not have anesthesia. Theo did not either, cause his vet is not a big believer in putting older kitties under. Instead, we did a series of ultrasounds that was showed progression from IBD to lymphoma.

Are there oncologist vets in London? Or would you have to go to Guelph? Talking to either an onco vet or an IM vet (depending on type of lymphoma) may be the way to go.

If you do buy a new vial of Lantus, I'd go with a 5 pack of cartridges instead. If one goes bad, you are wasting less insulin. You can usually use cartridges to the last drop.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
{{{Judy}}} so sorry to hear about a possible lymphoma diagnosis.:bighug: I have experience with two kitties with intestinal lymphoma, Neko and civie Theo. Civie Theo is currently in remission. I echo Tricia that an ultrasound is the next step, if they think it might be intestinal lymphoma. Biopsy (surgical or endoscopy ) is the best way to go for diagnosis, if they see thickening. The location of the bowel thickening is also telling. Neither Neko nore Theo had a proper biopsy. Neko couldn't have it because her heart block meant she could not have anesthesia. Theo did not either, cause his vet is not a big believer in putting older kitties under. Instead, we did a series of ultrasounds that was showed progression from IBD to lymphoma.

Are there oncologist vets in London? Or would you have to go to Guelph? Talking to either an onco vet or an IM vet (depending on type of lymphoma) may be the way to go.

If you do buy a new vial of Lantus, I'd go with a 5 pack of cartridges instead. If one goes bad, you are wasting less insulin. You can usually use cartridges to the last drop.
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Thanks Wendy. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Feel free to ask questions, there are a number of us here with lymphoma experience. :bighug: Small cell intestinal lymphoma (the most common, if that's what it is), is very treatable with drugs. I am very lucky that there is a specialty vet clinic 15 minutes away. You are lucky to have Guelph and the vet school within reasonable distance.

In the short term, try to get Allen over to low carb food if you can. Cancer likes carbs.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Feel free to ask questions, there are a number of us here with lymphoma experience. :bighug: Small cell intestinal lymphoma (the most common, if that's what it is), is very treatable with drugs. I am very lucky that there is a specialty vet clinic 15 minutes away. You are lucky to have Guelph and the vet school within reasonable distance.

In the short term, try to get Allen over to low carb food if you can. Cancer likes carbs.
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We've been feeding him more fancy feast; he always got a couple of snacks of it but since Boomer doesn't get it anymore we've been giving Allen more. I've been attempting, very slowly, to change both over to Weruva, the ones that are both low carb low phosphorous.
 
I am so sorry about this news - definitely not what you wanted to hear. I don't know much about lymphoma in cats, but I fostered a dog with lymphoma a few years ago. Pred made a HUGE difference for Oakley (the dog). He was dumped at a kill shelter by his previous owners after he had probably already been sick for quite a while. So we are started the Pred much later than what the vet would have wanted and it still made a difference.

Sending lots of good thoughts your way. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Well, it is pretty standard treatment for intestinal lymphoma and for IBD. It is a very useful drug in reducing inflammation, but it does have its drawbacks. As you may know, prolonged use can lead to diabetes. That is how Harvey got his. When Harvey's BGs kept going up, his oncologist had me reduce the dose of the Pred. We found a lower dose that kept him comfortable but also allowed his BGs to come down and I was able to regulate him more easily. Hopefully your IM or oncologist will be willing to work with you to find a good dose for Allen, if they prescribe Pred, and not just go with the textbook dose (which is what the IM that was previously treating Harvey did). Just watch him for any signs of FD, like drinking a lot and peeing a lot (which can also be a sign of kidney issues). Don't be afraid to poke him if you are concerned. In fact, it might not be a bad idea to get some clue where his "normal" BG run now, before he begins treatment, so you know what is and isn't normal for him. If there is a possibility that they will do a biopsy to identify which kind of lymphoma it is, they will not start giving him Pred until after the biopsy, as it can skew the results.

I think it is a great idea to get Allen on low carb, low phos foods now. I hope he likes them and makes it easy on you!
 
Judy and Boomer said:
our thoughts on pred? Anything I need to be aware of if/when we give this to Allen?
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My civie Theo is on pred, 5 mg a day. He started at 10 mg then we reduced down after a couple of weeks. It was a game changer for him. His symptoms got much better, basically went away. Neko could not have pred due to her heart. Make sure the vets are confident Allen's heart can handle pred before starting it. @jayla-n-Drevon 's found out the hard way that her civie Rico could not take pred, so did Marje with Gracie. Some cats, the minority, on pred can get diabetes from prednisilone. I test Theo periodically, last BG was 68. :D On the higher dose of pred he ran in the high range of normal. There are a couple of other side effects of note. Increased drinking and appetite - not always a bad thing but I did have to guard Neko's fuds. It can cause some lowering of the immune system - Theo got the sniffles when he first started pred, but it went away. There can be long term muscle wasting - Theo has some weakness in a hind leg, which doesn't impact him much.

If they do confirm intestinal lymphoma, they may talk about starting chemo. Theo is (and Neko was) on Leukeran (chlorambucil). The newer dosing methodoligy is one dose every two weeks. Post and ask if you get to that point.

I don't know how practiced you are with giving Allen pills, but if you haven't already, I'd start seeing how he likes pill pockets. Give him "blanks" so he thinks they are just treats. Thankfully Theo loves his pill pockets, though I do need to rotate the flavours every once in a while, or rehydrate a freeze dried meat treat and stick a pill in there. In the US you can get pred compounded into treats, don't know if you can in Canada.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Well, it is pretty standard treatment for intestinal lymphoma and for IBD. It is a very useful drug in reducing inflammation, but it does have its drawbacks. As you may know, prolonged use can lead to diabetes. That is how Harvey got his. When Harvey's BGs kept going up, his oncologist had me reduce the dose of the Pred. We found a lower dose that kept him comfortable but also allowed his BGs to come down and I was able to regulate him more easily. Hopefully your IM or oncologist will be willing to work with you to find a good dose for Allen, if they prescribe Pred, and not just go with the textbook dose (which is what the IM that was previously treating Harvey did). Just watch him for any signs of FD, like drinking a lot and peeing a lot (which can also be a sign of kidney issues). Don't be afraid to poke him if you are concerned. In fact, it might not be a bad idea to get some clue where his "normal" BG run now, before he begins treatment, so you know what is and isn't normal for him. If there is a possibility that they will do a biopsy to identify which kind of lymphoma it is, they will not start giving him Pred until after the biopsy, as it can skew the results.

I think it is a great idea to get Allen on low carb, low phos foods now. I hope he likes them and makes it easy on you!
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Thanks so much Tricia!:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
My civie Theo is on pred, 5 mg a day. He started at 10 mg then we reduced down after a couple of weeks. It was a game changer for him. His symptoms got much better, basically went away. Neko could not have pred due to her heart. Make sure the vets are confident Allen's heart can handle pred before starting it. @jayla-n-Drevon 's found out the hard way that her civie Rico could not take pred, so did Marje with Gracie. Some cats, the minority, on pred can get diabetes from prednisilone. I test Theo periodically, last BG was 68. :D On the higher dose of pred he ran in the high range of normal. There are a couple of other side effects of note. Increased drinking and appetite - not always a bad thing but I did have to guard Neko's fuds. It can cause some lowering of the immune system - Theo got the sniffles when he first started pred, but it went away. There can be long term muscle wasting - Theo has some weakness in a hind leg, which doesn't impact him much.

If they do confirm intestinal lymphoma, they may talk about starting chemo. Theo is (and Neko was) on Leukeran (chlorambucil). The newer dosing methodoligy is one dose every two weeks. Post and ask if you get to that point.

I don't know how practiced you are with giving Allen pills, but if you haven't already, I'd start seeing how he likes pill pockets. Give him "blanks" so he thinks they are just treats. Thankfully Theo loves his pill pockets, though I do need to rotate the flavours every once in a while, or rehydrate a freeze dried meat treat and stick a pill in there. In the US you can get pred compounded into treats, don't know if you can in Canada.
Click to expand...

Thanks Wendy! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
My civie Theo is on pred, 5 mg a day. He started at 10 mg then we reduced down after a couple of weeks. It was a game changer for him. His symptoms got much better, basically went away. Neko could not have pred due to her heart. Make sure the vets are confident Allen's heart can handle pred before starting it. @jayla-n-Drevon 's found out the hard way that her civie Rico could not take pred, so did Marje with Gracie. Some cats, the minority, on pred can get diabetes from prednisilone. I test Theo periodically, last BG was 68. :D On the higher dose of pred he ran in the high range of normal. There are a couple of other side effects of note. Increased drinking and appetite - not always a bad thing but I did have to guard Neko's fuds. It can cause some lowering of the immune system - Theo got the sniffles when he first started pred, but it went away. There can be long term muscle wasting - Theo has some weakness in a hind leg, which doesn't impact him much.

If they do confirm intestinal lymphoma, they may talk about starting chemo. Theo is (and Neko was) on Leukeran (chlorambucil). The newer dosing methodoligy is one dose every two weeks. Post and ask if you get to that point.

I don't know how practiced you are with giving Allen pills, but if you haven't already, I'd start seeing how he likes pill pockets. Give him "blanks" so he thinks they are just treats. Thankfully Theo loves his pill pockets, though I do need to rotate the flavours every once in a while, or rehydrate a freeze dried meat treat and stick a pill in there. In the US you can get pred compounded into treats, don't know if you can in Canada.
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I am so sorry of the possible dx Judy....
As Wendy said we found out the hard way and after a few days we were in ER as Rico could not breathe without oxygen-
He is doing very well on budesonide and he also gets a small dose of lasix (about 7mg 2x a day)
I gauge the lasix by his rr-he also gets vetmedin 2x a day.
It was a rough ride for a few weeks but we just had BW yesterday and I am so pleasantly surprised.
I think it may be useful to tell you that I have always specifically asked about how his heart sounded from any Dr we saw and nothing was ever heard. In fact we were at a feline specialist less than 2 weeks before and she heard nothing.

The night I went to ER the Dr. told me he had a "gallup" heart beat .... in the morning it was a murmur....when I took him home she couldn't tell if it was a murmur a growl or a purr.
The cardio heard a "slight" murmur on the same day....all very curious ???
He was getting sq fluids which in small amount which is the only thing that fits.
you are in my prayers....:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Increased drinking and appetite - not always a bad thing but I did have to guard Neko's fuds.
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Oh, yeah, I forgot about the increased appetite. When we first started Harvey on Pred, on the higher dose, he was always hungry. Ate anything I put in front of him. After we lowered the dose he got much pickier. Once the kidney disease took over it was hard to get him to eat. I almost suggested we increase the Pred again!
 
So.......
I'll start weighing Allen once a week (is that excessive?)
And I'll get some pill pockets although I think I may be able to pill Allen. But I'll have the pill pockets as backup.
And I'll start taking his BG occasionally....maybe once a week (or should I do it more often). I took it mid January and it was 59.
Will try to transition to Weruva a little quicker....being on pred may help this if his appy increases
Must talk to Dr Larry about Allen's heart and will it handle pred
 
Judy and Boomer said:
I'll start weighing Allen once a week (is that excessive?)
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No. I weighed all my cats once a week in their senior years.

Judy and Boomer said:
And I'll start taking his BG occasionally....maybe once a week (or should I do it more often). I took it mid January and it was 59.
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My thinking, and someone may tell me I'm all wet, would be to do a "mini curve" - pick a day test before he eats in the morning, then after three hours, six and nine hours, so you see how his numbers usually run during the course of a day. I don't think you'd need to test him regularly until he is actually on Pred. I'm just thinking it's a good idea to have a baseline.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
So.......
I'll start weighing Allen once a week (is that excessive?)
And I'll get some pill pockets although I think I may be able to pill Allen. But I'll have the pill pockets as backup.
And I'll start taking his BG occasionally....maybe once a week (or should I do it more often). I took it mid January and it was 59.
Will try to transition to Weruva a little quicker....being on pred may help this if his appy increases
Must talk to Dr Larry about Allen's heart and will it handle pred
Click to expand...
If Allen doesn't like the pill pockets (Rico thinks they are poison) I got some size 3-4 and 5 empty capsules and put anything that may taste bad in a gel cap and dab a little butter on it. The butter makes a big difference ... we have a routine now so he eats right after which is a relief for me so I don't worry about the gel caps getting stuck.
I dab vaseline on Dre's pills and that works great too .... also helps him poop!
When Rico was on the pred he did eat really well -- he is eating more on the budesonide too and has turned into a chubby boy. Awesome BG!! :bighug:
 
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