12/08 Tiny Solè AMPS:85, +3:118, +5:109, +9.5:68, +10:151, PMPS:161, +4:106, +5:126, +9:93

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Joanne&TinySole, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    YESTERDAY

    AMPS: 85 at 7 AM
    - gave a hearty LC meal and 0.1 U Lantus at 7:30 AM

    Will monitor closely today.
    Go Tiny, GO!! :D
     
    majandra likes this.
  2. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    WhooHoo! Look at that AMPS! Go Tiny! Surf smoothly! :joyful:
     
    Joanne&TinySole likes this.
  3. Amanda and a Loudogg

    Amanda and a Loudogg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Love that AMPS! Especially fantastic considering the NS last night! Go Tiny Go! But stay safe out there!
     
    Joanne&TinySole likes this.
  4. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Fingers crossed!
     
  5. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    +3: 118 at 10 AM
     
  6. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
    Wow beautiful start
     
    Joanne&TinySole likes this.
  7. Rosie & Bailey

    Rosie & Bailey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Tiny is doing beautifully! Keep it going Tiny! Surf safely!
     
    Joanne&TinySole likes this.
  8. JoyBee&Ravan

    JoyBee&Ravan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Still do'in good! Lets see some more green! :D
     
    Joanne&TinySole likes this.
  9. Jill & Scooter

    Jill & Scooter Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Lookin good Tiny! More greens for a please!
     
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  10. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    +5: 109 at 12 Noon

    ...holding steady! ❤

    ❤❤❤ fingers crossed!

    ❤!!!

    So far so good! ❤

    I think she'll show her greens later today!

    Tiny says "ok! Since you asked so nicely! :D
     
    Jill & Scooter likes this.
  11. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    +9.5: 68 at 4:30 PM
    - small LC + MC snack given
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  12. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Can I ask why you didn’t reduce to a drop dose? 0.1 is looking like too much insulin. :eek:
     
  13. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    +10:151 at 5 PM
    - the rise is food-induced
     
  14. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Mostly because even though we are not technically following TR, we pretty much following TR, even though we are SLGS.

    Tiny barely gets any kibble. If she goes for the kibble, that means she's hungry, so we test - yep, she's running in the low #s - and then we feed LC FF as a snack.

    If I don't give Tiny LC FF every 2 to 3 hours she'd consistently be in the greens.

    Can you tell me how many drops of insulin are in 0.1 U?
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  15. Bellasmom

    Bellasmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2018
    Awesome numbers
     
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  16. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    We are also using the AlphaTrak2 meter with AT2 strips. I didn't want any variables, or math, that I have to deal with!
     
    MrWorfMen's Mom likes this.
  17. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Tiny is looking good.
     
  18. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    You would have to tell me how many drops in your 0.1 unit dose. Load a syringe with 0.1 units, then rotate the plunger and try to squeeze out even sized drops, then count them. Different syr8 gets, different zero lines can mean different number of drops in0.1 unit. Someone posted a description of the drop dose in your post yesterday.

    If you are constantly having to feed her to keep her safe, that’s another sign the dose might be too high. Plus, any dry food means using SLGS. Those guidelines are there for safety. She did get to 68 today, which is the reduction point for even TR.
     
  19. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Tiny is still hitting some blue range numbers that suggest she continues to need a little bit of insulin support. At this point she has not dropped below 68 which is the TR reduction point for a pet meter so holding on the 0.1u seems prudent to me until Tiny's occasional higher blue numbers start coming down. Having used a pet meter for a good part of my journey with feline diabetes, we really don't have any instructions that "fit" this situation. Unless Tiny drops below 68, why would drop the dose below 0.1u? At this point despite intending to use SLGS, Joanne is basically forced into the TR protocol.
     
  20. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    That is the wrong way to look at it. Safety is first. Dry food, any at all, forces Joanne into SLGS. OTJ kitties that are being tested with an AT usually have some low blues in the picture.

    A drop dose still provides some insulin support.
     
  21. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    It's not constant feeding, I'm helping her stay safe. Most times she's level and holding her own without food/my help.

    Again, she's not really eating any kibble. If she goes for it, that indicates she's hungry so she gets LC FF
     
  22. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Definitely the wrong way to look at it, @MrWorfMen's Mom .

    For reference from the Proposed adjustment to Start Low, Go Slow protocol: please read beginning with post #24 for a better understanding of the SLGS method, guidelines, and intentions as far as the process of going OTJ.
     
  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Sorry Jill...maybe I'm just being obtuse but when all the BG readings being used for reference in the documentation are from human meters, how does this apply to a pet meter user?

    Your own comments seem to substantiate my view of this situation

    fwiw, my 2 cents: leave it vague and deal with starting an OTJ trial on a cat to cat basis. my reasoning: obviously we want to set kitty up for a strong remission, but some newly diagnosed kitties are very clear about telling us when they're done with shots. otoh, there are many kitties who have been on insulin for quite awhile and are still throwing high numbers during a cycle despite dropping below 90 mg/dL on 0.25 unit. those are the kitties who would probably benefit from dropping to a 0.1u dose before withholding insulin to begin an OTJ trial. i'd like to hear other's thoughts because i'm aware my point of view is definitely influenced from living and breathing TR for years.

    I just took my cat with IAA into remission using a pet meter without the use of "R" as a secondary support so I don't think my view lacks some credence.
     
  24. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I don't see how.
    I wasn't aware you had, but if you're talking about Menace, I believe you did switch to a meter calibrated for humans? Correct? Not to mention, it's a little bit like comparing apples to oranges. IAA is self limiting... as such usually breaks around a year into it. Without carefully studying his ss, a quick look appears the IAA broke prior to the first year's end??? Not sure what if anything this has to do with Tiny.

    The point is taking a kitty into OTJ status, especially when following SLGS, may involve various approaches. Those approaches take various things into consideration... considerations for and about both cat and caregiver. Suggestions and opinions are offered. These suggestions are based on a whole lot of experience. That's what was done today...
     
  25. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    PMPS: 161 at 7 PM, by the way
     
  26. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    My opinion was just one offering based on my experience because although my spreadsheet shows human meter readings, I was still employing my pet meter along the way. I too hold safety above all else when it come to any kitty who comes to this forum and would not suggest anything that might jeopardize that safety. That said, it has also been my experience using a highly rated human meter (according to the Consumer Reports) that human meters can and sometimes do, read low at lower range BGs for felines when compared to pet meter readings. To get a STRONG remission when one is using a pet meter, I am suggesting that it would be preferable not to be seeing readings approaching the upper ranges of "normal" based on pet lab results and that dosing should be determined accordingly. Using a human meter, we are told to aim for a range of 50 to 80 with only occasional reading in the 100's yet the upper limit of normal using a human meter is considered to be 120mg/dl. Tiny has not dropped below 68 (low end of normal pet meter) but has exceeded 150 (general high level of normal on pet meter) on a dose of 0.1u. So I still don't see why suggesting continuing a dose of 0.1u poses any safety issue when Tiny's PMPS today was 161 on the pet meter.
     
    Joanne&TinySole likes this.
  27. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Various approaches from experienced members? Wouldn't that include Linda's experience? I'm open to all levels of experience if it will help Tiny.

    Again, were "following" SLGS, but she's not really eating kibble any longer, so we're following a modified SLGS to TR.

    She's almost there. There is no precise means to get any cat OTJ, only guidelines. I'm the foot soldier, here to help her, that's all.
     
  28. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    Joanne, don't know if it would help you, but here are a few spreadsheets from OTJ kitties with peeps who did and continue to use the AT to test. Might give you an idea of what AT numbers to look for both around the time they went OTJ, as well as after. Ninja Viktoria was following SLGS, Cocoa, Jade, Ebony using SLGS, Grey, Lana, and Rufus also SLGS with a bit of dry. Those are just the ones from 2018. They have a lot in common with Tiny, the majority of them were also fairly recently diagnosed, none with high dose conditions causing insulin resistance. And most of them have blue as well as green on the spreadsheets. I could point you to a couple SS of AT users with high dose kitties who went OTJ, but I don't think they are relevant.

    FWIW, I think it's significant that you didn't shoot last night at a green PMPS, and she was still green this morning. I think she might just be done with this dance.
     
  29. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Wishing you and Tiny the best, Joanne.
     
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  30. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    Thanks, Jill. We're going to do this.
     
  31. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    I agree, she's almost done. I want her to finish strong and stick her landing on the dismount!!! She's doing the work, I'm just feeding her the right food!

    There are not a lot of people here using AT2 meter and strips. It has been difficult to discern a path for my situation - AT2 meter/strips and SLGS. I'll have a look at those SS - thanks for sending them along!
     
  32. majandra

    majandra Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2018
    Good luck :) Seems our kitties call the shots!
     
    Joanne&TinySole likes this.
  33. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    +4: 106
    +5: 126
    - small LC snack given so I can catch a few zzzzzzzzs
     
  34. Joanne&TinySole

    Joanne&TinySole Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2018
    +9: 93 at 4 AM
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018

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