? 2/13 Disco AMPS 236,+11.25 115,+11.5 93,+12 73,+12.25 60,+12.5 50,+13 45,+13.5 75,+14 93, +15 94

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Teri (Disco NoFurNo), Feb 13, 2020 at 12:27 PM.

  1. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Disco had a smooth day yesterday, and his PM +10.75 was 258, and I'm so glad for the guidance to do +10 or 11's to see where he might be headed before him AMPS is due. Looking forward to getting back on schedule after the stall yesterday morning, and again, know how to do it with the info from the stickies and members! Thx!!
     

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    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020 at 10:22 PM
  2. Si am cat mom

    Si am cat mom Member

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    Wrong way, Disco....go the other way :)
     
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  3. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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    So adorable. I hope Disco keeps heading down for you.
     
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  4. Briere Fur Mom

    Briere Fur Mom Member

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    What a honey baked ham Disco is!!!!:cat:
     
  5. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    OhMyCat! I sometimes call him my “sweet potato” because of his color… But I love the image of “honey baked ham” too!! ha ha meow!
     
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  6. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Update: At +10.75, got BG of 148... think I’ll do another now, 30 min before PMPS, good plan?

    Update: At +11.25, 115
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020 at 10:47 PM
  7. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    sounds like a plan. he does seem to like scaring you at shot time, doesn't he?
     
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  8. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Yes, just about the time I relax, he gets me uptight again!
     
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  9. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Update: 93 @11.7. PMPS due in 20 min
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020 at 11:01 PM
  10. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Tell me there is somebody else around besides me! :eek:
     
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  11. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    OMG again, I see @Wendy&Neko are on, helping another kitty, @CRL
     
  12. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    He's not as low as he was on the 8th but lower than he was yesterday morning. Stating the obvious here, I know.
    Do you feel confident to shoot?
     
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  13. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    No. About to test again.
     
  14. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Save the HC for lower numbers? Maybe MC?

    How carb sensitive is he?
     
  15. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    +12, 73. @Wendy&Neko I will have to look back at the other night, to see when I started feeding him, and did start with MC of sorts, Gravy Lovers with the gravy rinsed off. I to have MC now though
     
  16. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Ari, you around?

    @Wendy&Neko ?
     
  17. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    So, a repeat of the 8th. Do you remember what you did on that night?
     
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  18. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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  19. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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  20. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    I hope that with time and experience, I can stress and read at the same time! Thank you for looking that up. I do his pads, his ears would be shredded after the past few crashes. Almost time to test again.
     
  21. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    i feel your pain. i'm stressed as well. hopefully i will be a pro if and when Bandit decides to head low!
    last time, Wendy had said to call it a skip at 49. let us see where he heads tonight in the first hour.

    ETA: Wendy's post from the last time
    "You never shoot below 50. When he hit 49 a while back, that was the time to call it a skip unless you were willing to really move shot time a couple hours. You always feed the 40's. Which influences the blood sugar and you'd have to wait to see if he really started zooming up before shooting. The 30's always means high carb food.

    Looks like Disco is one of those whose numbers really drop without food on time. Good information to tuck away. He's done the late cycle dive a couple times. Might want to think about occasionally getting a +10 when you suspect it's time for him to break a bounce. That way you can give him a light snack at +10, hopefully prevent that diving, and not have a carb influenced preshot."
     
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  22. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    +12.25 60 and yes, I should have fed him some LC when I got the 10.75 but was conflicted as it was less than 2 hours before him PMPS was due. I will now make sure I do a +10 and not let anything get in my way, set my phone alarm etc--I do that when I am home but was running an errand and time got away from me.
     
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  23. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    it's okay. we are all learning. i guess you get a +10 from now on or a +9.75 and feed him if necessary.
    anyway, lets be positive. looks like disco is in a mood for another reduction. fingers crossed!!!
     
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  24. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    50@12.5, skipping shot
     
  25. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    YAY! ANOTHER REDUCTION! :woot::woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:
     
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  26. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Wonder if I'll ever get back to his usual shoot time of 8am and 8pm. Hadn't worked through the last crash...
     
  27. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    More of this and your 8am shot will be at 8pm and vice versa :D:D:D

    When you skip a shot, you can give the next shot at +11.50 hours from what would have been your previous PS. So tomorrow morning, you can shoot at today's PMPS +11.5.
    ETA: scratch the above line and see post below.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 1:14 AM
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  28. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Do I wait to feed anything until he hits 49? and HC on deck, LOL
     
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  29. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    We are buddies and 15 1/2 hrs apart, right? it's 9:57pm here in Oregon
     
  30. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Since you've decided to skip, feed him his dinner and see where he goes. maybe add just a little MC to the mix to prevent drops. test again in 20-30 mins. I remember Wendy saying the last time that food takes that much time to act and testing before that would be meaningless.
     
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  31. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    A buddy who had signed on for providing only moral support! ;)
    Its 11:30am here.
     
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  32. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Yes, I just read that, so every 15 min tests at this point are pointless, HaHa. Feeding him his usual LC dinner now, will test in 15 min
     
  33. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Yeah. Without insulin, any carbs will push him higher. Lets wait for him to drop below 40 for HC.
     
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  34. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Oh, you don't know how much a comfort you are, and you are doing more than moral support, you are reading my old posts to me cuz I can't focus.
     
  35. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    He just ate 3 oz of Darwin's Raw Turkey so fast, he may throw it up. his usual meal is 3 oz but the other 2 cats share a large plate of 3 oz each and usually he doesn't eat it all at once like the others do
     
  36. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    it's going to take me a while (and some) to forget that I recommended you feed LC when Disco was 39! :(

    Hopefully not. Anyway, since you skipped the shot, it gives you a bit of a buffer to get food into him.

    Let us both bookmark your post of Feb 8th for future reference. Why do i feel we are going to need it again soon? :D:p
     
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  37. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    He hit 45 at +13, fed him 2 tsp HC Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers. Do I keep feeding him 2 tsp with each test if he keeps dropping?
     
  38. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Yes, hopefully he will start heading higher from the next test once the effect of his dinner kicks in.
    Not sure how to achieve the balance of feeding him right - so he doesn't fall too low and doesn't zoom too much without the insulin. Safety first, i guess!
     
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  39. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Next test, if I wait 30 min from last test, is due in 15 min. I skip the 15 min increments, right?
     
  40. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Yup. You've fed him his dinner plus some HC. Lets wait for them to kick in. Give Disco a break.
     
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  41. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    75 @ +13.5...fat and sassy! I guess I could have waited on the HC til he dropped below 40 as I had fed him LC, but I was anxious though now I don't know which food helped him, and I probably fed too much LC but it was down the hatch in a nanosecond!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 1:19 AM
  42. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Here's a question I suddenly thought about. If you've skipped the shot, can you not shoot at 8am tomorrow? Let's see if someone with experience can help with this.
     
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  43. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Great! No more HC and MC unless he falls below 50. Test again in an hour?
     
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  44. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Yes, I am comfortable waiting an hour. Actually, now that 15 min has past, I think I'll do the next test at 30 min...an hour seems like an eternity...
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 1:01 AM
  45. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    This week got skewed a little. On Tues 2/11 AM, I was 45 min late in giving his insulin (gave at 8:45am). And yesterday, Wed 2/12,his AMPS was 113, so until I got advice, his shot time was delayed til 9:25am, so I shot him 15 min early in the PM on Wed 2/12 and 15 min early this morning (or could do the 30 min per day instead of the 15 min per cycle).
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 1:37 AM
  46. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    I think I was wrong (yet again) about the "+11.50 hours from today's PMPS". Maybe post a question tomorrow AM (on a new condo) asking about shot time? I think it should be fine to shoot Disco at 8am. But I would like a confirmation from an experienced member.
     
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  47. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Thanks for hanging in there with me once again!
     
  48. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    pfffft! it was nothing. where is he at now? have you managed to get a bite to eat?

    btw, you could post a new thread for feb 14th right away since it is 14th now, right? you could get answers to whether you can shoot at 8am tomorrow by the time you wake up.
    link this thread to that post.
     
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  49. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    It's 20 minutes til it's the 14th here, but I'll be up for a while, so good idea. And I had eaten dinner before all the excitement started, but am eating ice cream now...
     
  50. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    You can shoot any time you want tomorrow morning, because you skipped. You just need to be at least 12 hours after your previous shot which was this morning.

    It’s unfortunate you didn’t feed him earlier to prevent the reduction. Like you said, next time get that +9.5 or +10 and feed if dropping. He is barely spending any time in healing green numbers. The goal is to spend as much time in the 50-120 range, if remission is your ultimate goal. Regulation is a prerequisite to remission.

    The +1 cell on the spreadsheet for tonight needs a different colour, it’s too close to blue. After years of looking at spreadsheets, our brain gets wired to look for colour patterns.
     
  51. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Did he earn a reduction to 2.5?
     
  52. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Unfortunately yes.
     
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  53. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Oh! Thank You! Your input is so precise and to remember.

    When I feed him at the +9.5 or +10, it's LC (his usual raw diet) and is it just a snack, like 2 teaspoons, not his full meal? And do you think that the late times I was feeding him as his shot times were late, has any impact on these crashes? I need to be more consistent with his snacks and not let a cycle go by with only one snack maybe?

    And I'll fix the SS color, thanks for catching that-I am going back and forth from my laptop and phone and they look different as to my color options. Since the numbers in +1 cell go from 45 to 60, is green ok?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 1:59 AM
  54. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Why unfortunately? Not enough time in green? If so, then why reduce?

    Sorry, just trying to understand.

    And I seem to like Teri's condos more than my own! ;-)
     
  55. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    So, I will give 2.5 at 8:00am Friday 12/14. Will I be able to increase to 2.75 again if he has a good 6 cycles? If this crash was due to my inattention to testing and feeding 2 hrs before PMPS due, I hope so, as the only greens he's been seeing were on the 2.75 dose.
     
  56. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    105@15.5, going to sleep now
     
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  57. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Woke up to pee, tested Disco, 351 @ +17
     
  58. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Congrats on the dose reduction.

    I want to make a couple of observations. The 2.75u dose was held for too long (1/24 to 2/6). With TR, the dose is evaluated no longer than 5 days (when nadirs are mostly in the <200 range; after 3 days in the > than 200 range).

    I'd encourage you to give some serious thought to how low you're willing to shoot. It will help if you can start shooting lower than blue numbers. Ultimately, with TR, you want to be able to shoot any number above 50. I'm not suggesting you do that immediately but you want to work your way down to shooting low numbers. Right now, you get a low pre-shot number, skip, and you end up with the double whammy of a bounce plus skipped shot and it takes at least 6 cycles for the bounce to clear.
     
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  59. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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  60. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    In a case like Disco's where he was falling rapidly (and probably below 50), one would feed MC and shoot? Even though he was 77 at PS, it was obvious he was headed downward at some speed. That was the concern.
     
  61. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    @Bandit's Mom - That could be dangerous. You need to wait and see which way numbers are going. You also do not feed to raise numbers and then shoot. As soon as the carbs wear off, numbers can plummet. If you shoot a dropping number, use MC/HC to artificially raise numbers, and then the carbs wear off, you could potentially spend several hours trying to get numbers into a safe range. I understand the concern with Disco's numbers last night.

    It is possible to shoot a dropping number but I would not recommend it to anyone who is still new at managing their cat's FD and especially not to anyone who has very limited experience with steering their cat's numbers with food. It takes considerable knowledge about how sensitive your cat is to carbs, how the kitty responds to both insulin and carbs, and how confident you are with your ability to manage the situation.
     
  62. Bandit's Mom

    Bandit's Mom Member

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    Thanks. That's what we thought. That we didn't have the experience or the courage to shoot a rapidly falling number. This has happened with Disco on Feb 8th to. He went all the way to 39!
     
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  63. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Thank you for your expertise and input! Yes, too long on the 2.75. Not sure now why I did that, maybe fear of being new to TR or not getting asking or seeing any input on time to change in my threads. Yes, it is my responsibility to read the stickies and documents and I don't even say I'm an experienced vet healthcare professional now because I feel so dense and dumb about FD. Again, I would be totally lost without this groups experienced members!!

    I, too, feel both regret and fear that I didn't shoot at 73, but how fast he dropped on 2/8 scares me. I feel like I don't have any 'rhythm' with what he is doing. So much different than the first couple of months while on Vetsulin (in spite of these scares, glad to be off that) and the first month on Lantus on SLGS.

    And you are right, I have to be diligent on learning how to steer him with food, it seems that much of his issue is due to his food needs? As to the couple of congrats on the dose reduction, @Wendy&Neko said 'Unfortunately' and I wonder why (I'm sure she will explain that) and want to not wait to increase to 2.75 again, if he is having ok numbers, do I do that after 6 cycles per TR even though he had problems last night, but be vigilant about doing a +9.75 or +10 and steer with food. Also, as I am having trouble even figuring out what his nadir is, how do I know how not to feed after his nadir? Do I need to test hourly while I'm awake, I know now that getting +1 and+2 is important for him while I am trying to learn what his nadirs are?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020 at 12:00 PM
  64. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    If it's any consolation, I'm having a hard time sorting out when Disco's nadir is. Some of the difficulty is due to the bouncing and as soon as he clears a bounce, he drops into low numbers. I would have likely stalled last night and done the same as you did. It's also the trade off with stalling. If you had shot and then fed, there's no way to know if the numbers would have come up over that 2 hour (maybe) period before onset due to Disco having eaten dinner. Sometimes, you make your best guess which is why it's important to get comfortable with steering the cycle with food.
     
  65. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Of course, I didn't think of the fact that I could feed him to steer him and then just test 2 hrs later, for example last night when I tested him at 10.75 and he had dropped from 258 at +6 to 148 at 10.75, if I had fed him to steer him, it possibly would have brought his number up and I could have shot him at 12.75 and not skipped, right? Also, when feeding to steer, it's LC right? and is it just a couple of teaspoons?
     
  66. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    I didn't mean you would feed him at +10.75.

    If you hadn't stalled, you would have tested at PMPS, gotten the 73 and shot. At that point (PMPS), you would have fed Disco dinner. In a perfect world, his numbers would rise until onset (although you would be urged to get a +1 and +2 just in case...) and then hopefully surf in green numbers.

    I wouldn't have suggested that you feed within 2 hours of shot time. If you did what you suggested above, you would have potentially inflated the PMPS. The risk is a false sense of confidence and if you shot and didn't test until +2, there could be a good chance you see low numbers (and then panic!!). The only time I've fed or recommend that someone feed their cat after +10 is if the numbers are below 50 (on TR or below 90 with SLGS). It's the same if you're seeing dose reduction-worthy numbers at any other point in the cycle -- you use food to raise the numbers.

    When I refer to steering the cycle, it's not necessarily a matter of LC. The choice of what % carb food you use depends on the circumstances -- how low the numbers are, how fast the numbers are dropping, where in the cycle the drop is occurring, etc.
     
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  67. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Thank you for clarifying your suggestions for me, I think sometimes I condense my thoughts and leave out something important when getting direction. When one is steering with food, is there a rule on how much each portion to feed? Seems like it's 1-2 teaspoons but want to clarify that.
     
  68. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sienne--

    Just to avoid confusion, I think feeding at +10.75 was an unorthodox suggestion I made in Teri's thread this morning. I know it's not the way we normally do things, I was just trying to think of other possible ways to try to head off situations like last night's. The idea was that you'd still be keeping a 2hr food-free window (thus, shooting late), but maybe would have been able to head off the deepest part of the dive and hopefully not shooting quite as late as you would going through the usual stalling process.

    Just an idea, though-- again, I know it's not the normal procedure!
     
  69. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    How much to feed can again be situation dependent -- mostly depending on how low the numbers are. If you test and get numbers in the 30s, I'd give a fair amount of HC. (I used either Karo or honey since Gabby was gluten intolerant. Gravy based food had gluten. So I'd be using maybe 3 drops of syrup, maybe 4.) If it's +3 and numbers are in the 60s, I'd probably give a teaspoon or so of LC to keep numbers from dropping.
     
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  70. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Thx! I will keep those notes handy!
     
  71. Teri (Disco NoFurNo)

    Teri (Disco NoFurNo) Member

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    Yes, that is how I understood your suggestion, shooting a little late to still keep the 2 hr food-free. I couldn't find the suggestion as I was looking on yesterday...
     

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