2/13 Jonesy AMPS 247=1.25;+2=270 ;+12 40 +1.5=72;+2=97; 2.5-95 SHOT 1.U; +1.5 post shot 110

Discussion in 'Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)' started by Darcy and Jonesy, Feb 13, 2020 at 6:49 AM.

  1. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    Morning,

    I'll link both of yesterdays threads. He's eating well this morning. I've not been able to get a sample as I have to get ready for work and will be away all day :( But should I be increasing his dose? I'll go check the TR rules right now . . .

    EDIT: never mind, I've read through the TR rules and as per @LizzieInTexas I'm going to increase by .25 (thanks LizzieInTexas!)

    Send good vibes to my boy please

    Link re ketones: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...trace-and-small-what-now.225589/#post-2525756

    Regular daily posting: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...ps-274-1u-trace-ketones-when-to-panic.225563/
     
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  2. Marc & Jen

    Marc & Jen Member

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    Dec 13, 2018
    Have you considered a blood ketone meter? We never even tried the urine strips as we don't really have time to chase FA around all day to try and get a sample. The test strips are a little expensive but I think it's worth it for the convenience.
     
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  3. carfurby

    carfurby Well-Known Member

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    Feb 19, 2012
    Are you going to contact the vet about possible ketones? I think it can get serious really fast. I hope it will be okay. Sending prayers.
     
  4. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Paws crossed for Jonesy today. And for you as well-- it is so stressful to have to go to work and be away all day when this is going on :(.
     
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  5. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    Thanks everyone for your support. I'm off to work now. I've got a call into the vet; I'm going to see if I can buy a Ketone meter; he's got lots of soupy food; AND I've loaded him up with about an "orange" size amount of sub q fluids. I know they won't flush ketones, but it's all I have on hand and it will help with his hydration.

    Will update you when I can, thanks again.
     
  6. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Fluids are good. Ketone meters are great. Strips are expensive and you only get 10 in a bottle.

    Might need to find out if there is an infection brewing somewhere. Gingivitis or UTI are the more common ones.
     
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  7. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    I’ve got a meter on hold for me at Walmart, will pick up after work!
     
  8. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    We know he needs a dental, I’v got him booked but due to February being “dental month” my vet clinic is booked up till mid March ☹️ But he is booked.

    Should I be going elsewhere to get it done more quickly? I trust my clinic literally with my cats lives. When you ask about infection, can that be causing ketones???
     
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  9. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it’s a main ingredient in setting the stage for development of ketones:
    Not enough calories + Not enough insulin + Infection/inflammation/or some other systemic stress.

    infection raises BG, which in turn raises insulin needs.

    Insulin is required to deliver energy from food consumed to the cells of the body. When there is not enough energy from food making it into the cells, the body will breakdown it’s fat and protein stores to try and fulfill the need for more metabolic energy. The excessive breakdown of these stored reserves creates a toxic by-product - ketones. As ketones build up in the blood stream, the resulting pH and electrolyte imbalances can very quickly develop to life threatening levels , a state of DKA.
     
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  10. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Nice on ketone meter. If his teeth seem to find now, I would wait if you trust your vet. Feb is dental month, most give discounts for Feb. Usually need to book way in advance for Feb appts.

    Recipe for ketones is not enough insulin, not eating and infection/inflammation/illness somewhere.
     
  11. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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  12. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OMG.

    So glad he's eating and active-- those are good signs. First step, I'd re-test both those numbers immediately. Then... what is your evening vet situation? I feel like this is probably going to require a visit-- the "take action" number for the blood ketone meters is usually in the 2's, so 3.7 needs action.
     
  13. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Could you change the PMPS on the subject line to either +12 or PMBG. Don’t want people to think you shot that 40!

    Deep breath. How much did you feed? Retest in 20-30 minutes.

    Is your vet open tonight?
     
  14. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Above 2.6 on the ketone meter is worrying.
     
  15. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    My regular vet is not open tonight. Will change the title
     
  16. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    He's eaten about 2/3rds of a bowl of LC fancy feast. I gave him sub q fluids this morning, and honestly, he seems to be doing great. But those *&($% ketone Did I test properly? It's the first time I've used the meter. I can try for another pee test with a strip tonight, sitting in the office with him until he pees.

    Yeah, freaking out and horribly confused :'( (Edit, I've removed the 911)
     
  17. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Darcy, I'm sorry that you've got a combination of things going on. For the low BG level, can you tell us what % carbs you fed? Please retest again in 20 minutes. The ketone reading is worrisome.
     
  18. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    No LC is not enough here, give him HC now please.
     
  19. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    @Wendy&Neko I'm going to copy and paste the entire email that I just got from my vet. Please give me your thoughts.

    Hi Darcy,


    If there truly are ketones in Jonesy’s urine, that would be cause for concern. Persistent ketonuria is due to an upset in energy metabolism, when the body is using fat stores rather than glucose for energy production. It can therefore be seen in unregulated diabetes, or from malnutrition or starvation.

    Also, I say “truly” because ketones strips can be misread – for example, diabetic cats are prone to getting urinary tract infections due to the high glucose levels in their urine. If this is causing red blood cells or other impurities to come out in the urine, it could falsely change the colour on the test strip.

    If Jonesy still has ketones in his urine that would make me think that his diabetes is not well regulated. If Jonesy is showing signs of increased thirst and urination, this would be even more likely. There can be many reasons for this. His insulin dose may not be adequate, he may be resistant to insulin, he may have another infection occurring, he may have pancreatitis (the pancreas is responsible for producing insulin in the body, pancreatitis means it’s inflamed), or he may have another disease occurring that we are unaware of that is playing a role in insulin regulation, such as another endocrine disorder.


    Therefore, we would need a full urinalysis and complete bloodwork, or at the very least an accurate blood glucose reading, to know what may be happening. Abdominal imaging is often a good idea as well, so we can visualize the pancreas and urinary tract to check for any abnormalities that may be causing him to not regulate.

    For these reasons, we don’t recommend testing ketones regularly in diabetic cats as it does not tell us much about what is going on, but gives us more questions than answers. We do recommend performing blood glucose curves (checking blood glucose immediately before an insulin injection and then every 2 hours until the next injection) to more accurately judge whether a cat is well controlled. We do these every 6 months or so in “well” diabetics, and more often in diabetics showing signs of increased urination and drinking, or a couple weeks after changing an insulin dose.

    The last blood glucose curve I see from Jonesy is an email from January 7th. At that time the doctor recommended increasing the dose to 2 units twice a day, and repeating a curve in 3 - 4 weeks. Was a repeat curve done then? Vanessa mentioned that a reading came back low, and so you brought the dose down to 1.5 units twice a day, was a curve done at this time or since this change?

    In summary, at the very least, I need a blood glucose curve to be done on Jonesy so I can get an idea of what exactly may be going on. A full urinalysis would also be a good idea.

    Let us know if you have further questions,

    Dr. Melissa Cavanagh
     
  20. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    I'll get him a can of HC, I'm sorry, I don't know the % :'( Low or high . . . going to get some HC gravy stuff
     
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  21. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Darcy, could I please suggest we get through the immediate situation first? I don't like seeing 40 without some intervention.
     
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  22. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    It's okay, we're here to help :bighug:
     
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  23. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Is there an ER vet in your area? Not saying you have to go there right now, just gathering information.

    Glad you are bumping up the carbs-- 40 is way too low. Plus, with ketones in the background, you may need to find a way to shoot some insulin eventually tonight (though not yet!!!!)
     
  24. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    He's scarfing down the gravy like he's not been fed . . . ever . . .
     
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  25. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    It's been 25 minutes and he's at 47
     
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  26. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Yup, that happens to my kitty when he gets lower. Good job, now the tricky part is next test, you fed some LC previously, I think I'm still inclined to suggest test 20minutes after when you got the 40. @Nan & Amber (GA) what do you think?
     
  27. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Okay thank you for that test, that helps. The HC gravy should kick in shortly, so let's see in another 20 minutes, unless others think differently.
     
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  28. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Again, the fact that he's eating so well is a really good sign. It is possible for cats to develop high ketones with no outward signs (she's not on much these days, but I think @Bobbie And Bubba 's Bubba was one), so it's not like it's not also dangerous, but it's a whole lot easier to address when they're eating than when they're not.

    I agree, let's see what that HC can do, and keep a close eye on things.
     
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  29. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Looks like the LC brought him up some. Please limit the HC to a couple tsps. We don't want to fill him up in case you need him to eat again later.

    Can you try retesting with the blood ketone meter? Maybe test on you too, to make sure you are doing it right. Sorry, expensive strips I know.
     
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  30. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Yes, there are a couple of ER vets in the city, but I'm not going to sugar coat things, I can't handle another $2000 bill. I can't :arghh: That was only a month ago, and my other cat cost me about $1000 a few weeks ago. This will break me. I'd have to put him down . . . Jesus, I can't even think right now
     
  31. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Wendy raises a good point to keep in mind. I'm glad you fed just the HC gravy, it may be that you will want him to be a bit hungry later.
     
  32. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Well that's ONE wasted strip :banghead:

    This ruckusfruckus piece of sh*t meter. I've now wasted two strips, on myself, the meter is reading an error of "either not enough blood, or problem with test strip, or incorrect testing procedure"

    I want to throw this thing out into the snow right now as my finger bleeds all over the keyboard . . . not enough blood my ass

    I'm sorry, now I'm into the pissed off, yet still ready to cry stage. It's not pretty :(
     
  33. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Ugh, I totally understand that situation. Luckily, we're not nearly at a crisis point yet.

    Let's try to get that ketone meter re-test as the next step. I don't have one of these meters, so I don't know how they work-- can you get the BG and ketones from one sample/strip, so that you could combine the BG re-check with this?

    Yearrrgghhhh..... :blackeye:
     
  34. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    No, he's had his LC also, but he's a glutten. He'll eat any time I put food down.
     
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  35. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    I'll do another glucose test (it's been 25 minutes) and I'll *try* another ketone strip. But I'm SO frustrated at how much blood it takes! If it shows an error again, I don't know what the heck is going on
     
  36. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Well, this one is just a sanity check on that previous reading so it's not a critical monitoring thing-- just hoping against hope that maybe that 3.7 was an error and you don't need to be freaking out tonight, so it seems worth doing for that reason. But if the meter/strips keep making it difficult, then we'll just move forward assuming the 3.7 is real, and try to get a urine test somewhere down the line.
     
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  37. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    His glucose is climbing slowly, he's at 50. I've blown through FOUR useless test strips. I'm not using that p.o.s. thing again.
     
  38. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    He's currently trying to mug me of my pizza, best thing that's happened in the past hour! LOL
     
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  39. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hah! "See, I'm not sick, mom! Or, wait... maybe if I'm sick I get to eat pizza????"

    I feel like we should try to shoot some kind of dose eventually tonight to help keep the ketones down, but it's going to be tricky with him just barely hitting 50 after the HC-- I'd like some definite signs that he's rising first. Also, you're now already an hour off schedule, so it'll probably be at least two hours late by the time we could possibly make that call. Will that be a problem for you?
     
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  40. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    No, I have time in the morning to always "back up by 15" his shot. So if I'm two hours late tonight, I technically could shoot tomorrow. BUT, that would be I'm having to shoot and leave. I'm gone for about 9 1/2 hours and there isn't any way for me to get home as I'm the only one "on the floor" tomorrow at work. Can't even call in sick
     
  41. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    I did take away the HC after he ate a good portion of it, but he didn't have the whole tin.

    It's hard for me to understand wanting to getting his numbers back up, only to get them down low again :( If his numbers are low, isn't that even healthier in regards to keeping control of any ketones? I'm so confused :(
     
  42. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    He's climbed up to 72 :woot:
     
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  43. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Overall, yes, the lower numbers are healthier. The ketones story is more complicated than that, though, it's not just about low BG-- insulin has a separate, additional role to play in keeping ketones down/away. So, sometimes it makes sense to bump up carbs to try to deliberately bump up BG just to be able to shoot more insulin.

    In this case, there's also the fact that Jonesy was just too darn low to shoot at 50 (post-HC dose). 72 is much better-- how long has it been since he had that gravy?
     
  44. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Mar 19, 2016
    I'll also start off the dose discussion by suggesting going back to 0.75U. @Wendy&Neko , your thoughts?

    [Edited to add: though I would still like to see one more rising number before shooting, I'm just starting the discussion now so you can have the plan in place]
     
  45. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    hmmmm, maybe an hour since the gravy? Should I give him more?
     
  46. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    Only this morning I moved him up to 1.25. He was in the pinks and yellows for a good five days :( (I have to be away from the computer for about 15 minutes) will check back asap!
     
  47. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    No, that's good. Let's get one more test in a half hour to see if he's holding those numbers on his own.
     
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  48. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Feb 28, 2012
    With ketones in the picture, I wouldn't reduce too much, maybe to 1.0 units. But you really do have to be vigilant. I don't see any tests last night. Especially after a day of flat yellows.

    If you start to see him really zooming up, without any additional food given, you may be safe to shoot.

    Could we do a food/BG/time summary? Food should be carbs plus amount.

    +12 BG 40 - how much LC given?
    +12.25 BG 47 - food given?
    +13 BG 50 - food?
    +13.5 BG 72 - food?

    Note, including extra food given in the Remarks of the spreadsheet is helpful for next time for you too.
     
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  49. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I'm being a bit conservative here because I'm thinking that we can more or less consider that tonight's lows came off of the 1.0U depot finally filling up (rather than the single 1.25 dose this morning), and reducing from there. Plus, even on the three official days of the 1.0, you did see at least one blue. And then for a third reason, you are not going to be able to monitor at all tomorrow, so going a little conservative seems safer.

    That said, on the other side of the ledger is what I said above; sometimes, when ketones are in the picture, it's better to aim for more insulin, increasing carbs if it's necessary to do that safely. I'll be interested to hear what others who have more direct ketones experience than I do have to say. The boards are kind of quiet tonight, but I'll go ahead and tag @Sandy and Black Kitty on this question, just in case she checks in later. [ETA: oh good, Wendy has checked in with advice!]
     
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  50. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    I've no idea how to determine the exact carbs :( I'm sorry, I just know low versus high

    +12 BG 40 - how much LC given? He ate approx. 2/3rds tin of FF classic chicken, then I also gave him the HC gravy FF food. He was eating that between the +12 and the +12.25

    +12.25 BG 47 - food given? I took away the high carb food at this time.
    +13 BG 50 - food? None
    +13.5 BG 72 - food? None

    I was under the impression I didn't want him to continue eating (endlessly) in case he *needed* to eat something later??
     
  51. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    What is important tonight is calories, not necessarily carbs. But if it takes high carb food to get the calories, so be it.

    Good summary on the food, looks like the original food took him up some, but then he started rising some more on his own. Been 1/2 hour since that 72, or almost two hours since he ate. Can you test again? If up again, I think you are good to shoot.
     
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  52. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Glad to see Wendy. I was concerned over that much reduction also. Might also think about giving medium carbs so you can give the 1 u.

    What ketone meter are you using?

    @Wendy&Neko FYI. Ollie on the move again.
     
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  53. Nan & Amber (GA)

    Nan & Amber (GA) Well-Known Member

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    OK, consensus seems to be to go for the higher dose due to ketones (pending the next test).

    I'm going to have to log off for the night soon, seems like things are in hand. Hopefully by tomorrow, either the ketone meter will start behaving, or Jonesy will give you a nice sample for the urine sticks ;), and he'll have tamped down this little flare.
     
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  54. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    I'll reply to your questions in a second, but I just managed to get another ketone STRIP test. That meter is a piece of garbage . . .grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    Anyway! Today's strip is EXACTLY on the "trace" colour, not even between "trace and small"! That's good news, yes???!!!

    He's also at 97 right now, and chasing a ball ;) LOL
     
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  55. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Bayer Contour Next, thank GOD I've got lots of strips ;)
     
  56. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    He's at 97 right now, go with 1 unit? And keep him eating? (That shouldn't be a challenge . . . ;):D)
     
  57. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Ketone meter, which one
     
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  58. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    OMG . . . I'm sorry, KETONE meter :facepalm: Freestyle Precision Neo

    But I had better luck within the last 10 minutes getting a good clean urine sample so I used the Ketostix. This time the strip showed "trace" only, not even between "trace and small".

    Is it possible the sub-q fluids I gave him this morning helped to bring them down some???
     
  59. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    So, new problem! If I shoot one unit now (9:00 pm here) I MUST leave the house tomorrow morning at 8:30 at the very, very latest.

    WHAT NOW??? How would I shoot in the morning without falling back a full 30 minutes? And not being able to test at ALL for 9 1/2 hours?? @Wendy&Neko ? @Olive & Paula ?
     
  60. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    You can shoot 11.5 hours afterwards if he is high enough.
     
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  61. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    Sep 18, 2015
    Thank you Wendy, I'm so sorry to have taken up everyone's evening :( I'll shoot 1u right now. Will ensure he keeps eating well and will continue to test.

    Thanks again :kiss:
     
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  62. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    Thank goodness for the ketostix result!
     
  63. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Glad ketones are okay.
     
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  64. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 12, 2019
    Only thing I’ll add is the Nova Max ketone meter needs a lot more blood than glucose meters. It’s like .8 as opposed to .3 or .5
     
  65. Mimis mom

    Mimis mom Well-Known Member

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    Oct 12, 2019
    I have trouble with the ketone strips because the colors can look similar (I never know it’s zero or trace) but I guess small would be more obvious on the strip.
     
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  66. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

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    Nova Max is 0.3 drop size
     
  67. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

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    I was kinda desperate and had called around to a number of pharmacies. Once I found one that even *knew* what I was talking about, I said PUT IT ON HOLD, I'LL BUY IT! ;)

    On the plus side, the actual meter was only something like $8! (I suspect it may have been priced wrong, but that's what was in their system!) But I made up for that in buying TWO boxes of strips. So $50 later, 1 good test (I think??) and 4 wasted tests . . . pffffff, I'll stick to shoving the measuring cup under his butt ;)
     
  68. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Wow, that was an interesting cycle-what an evening you have had!

    yes it is possible that the sub-qs helped reduce the ketones. That’s why adding water to the food is recommended. Hydration is very important when battling ketones.

    I’m wondering if the sub-qs played a role in bringing his BG down. How did you happen to have some on hand?

    I myself don’t have experience with sub-qs but. many folks here do. Hopefully someone will chime in.
    I was in the exact same boat with BK It was late May 2008, 4 months after dx, that we ended up at the ER - diagnosis DKA. He was hospitalized for a couple days. About 1month later, within an exactly 24 hour period his ketones went from negative to large. He was down to 7 lbs and change.

    Our checkbook hadn’t recovered from the previous episode. There was no way we could afford another hospitalization. The folks in Lantus Land (this was pre Levemir, and balsagar) encouraged me to take him to another vet (the vet that diagnosed him as well as the local ER doc recommended the pink shot). A member who lived about 30 miles from me recommended a specialist, made the appointment and met me there. He required hospitalization once again. When the day came for me to bring him home upon check out I discovered half the bill had been paid by the generosity of some members here back then. He lived another 8 years, with the last 6.5 of those years were insulin free :cool:

    hang in there and hang in here. There’s no better place for a diabetic cat to be
     
    Darcy and Jonesy likes this.
  69. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2009
    Housekeeping note-

    It looks like you shot 2.5 hours late, which is AM +14.5. We always count hours since the last shot.

    Example of documenting a stall (or several) on the ss:
    68A07975-7171-4252-A263-606324DDFC05.jpeg
     
  70. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    My spread sheet is a jumbled mess. I know it. I'll try my best to fix it
     
  71. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Thank you, but I already know, I can't do it. I know that sounds harsh when written down, but I can't express all what I'm going through in my life at this time. I haven't the time, finances or the energy. I'm doing my best :'(
     
  72. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    How are you doing this morning, Darcy? I'm sorry I dropped off last, I had company over for dinner and poked my nose in a few times and saw that you were getting helped by others so I didn't post again. Hope Jonesy is feeling better today as well.:bighug:
     
    Darcy and Jonesy likes this.
  73. Darcy and Jonesy

    Darcy and Jonesy Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Thank you Christie! Noooo worries at all. I had many people holding my hand. I'm just about to do up today's post. He's up in the pinks again
     

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