2.21 Rufus AMPS 512, +5 496, +8 475, PMPS 363, +4 299, +8 149

Discussion in 'Lantus (Glargine) / Levemir (Detemir)' started by Sean & Rufus, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
  2. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    3 things to note:

    Reduced dosage from 6 to 5.5 last night
    I did not take away food 2 hours prior, however he ate his whole can this am so not sure when/if/how much he ate
    Free feeding dry food again, it's zero carb, however wondering if there is still some pain going on in his mouth from dental.
     
  3. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Jun 15, 2015
    Bouncing stinks, but the good news is that he had a nice stretch yesterday AM cycle. We have a saying around here: They bounce till they stop. Once he gets used to being in better numbers the bouncing slows down and/or goes away. However, some kitties bounce all the way into remission .

    Take the bounce days and give him and you a pokey break and just grab a mid test today for some more data. This is the 2nd cycle with a reduced dose and the depot needs to fill and that will take up to 4 cycles.
     
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  4. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Eating within 2 hours of the test can cause a food bump but this start is more than a food bump. He is higher this cycle than last night, but some kitties bounce higher in the 2nd cycle after a low number; Bubba did that.

    Keep an eye on the possible pain from the extractions. Some things to indicate his mouth is still sore are, pawing on his face, drooling, moving his head back and forth while eating as if to try to move the food away from the sore area. If you think it's a possibility, a quick vet check might not be a bad idea. Did they place sutures after the extractions?
     
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  5. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    The boy knows how to bounce, that's for sure. But, the bounces are getting shorter.

    The reason for taking the food away 2 hours before PS is so you have an accurate BG reading, so unless circumstances are somewhat "dire", (ie, if lack of appetite is a serious issue and you really need him to eat), you really do want to pick that food up 2 hours before a PS test. It's important for accuracy, but also for safety - with food in the picture, you don't know if a PS reading is "true" or food-influenced. If you shoot a number that has been artificially inflated by food, you could potentially end up with a hypo once that food wears off.

    I know it sounds like a broken record...but since he was doing well on wet-only after his dental, I'd seriously give that a go, at least for a good while, to see how he works the juice on an all-wet, LC diet. I can't hurt to try that as an experiment.

    As Bobbie said, you can cut back on pokies on bounce days, but as we've seen, Rufus is breaking bounces faster, so don't completely skip out on testing during today's cycle. He could potentially drop like a rock.
    The depot actually needs to drain, not fill, since this is a reduced dose.
     
  6. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Good catch Amy! I need more coffee :coffee:
     
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  7. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    He was eating the dry exactly like he was eating it when he had teeth issues. Manipulating with tounge, cruching on the side, some dropping of food. Dental vet tech called yesterday to see how he was doing. I told her I was concerned when I caught him sneaking some dry, because he was supposed to be off of it for 2 weeks. She said go ahead and let him have it. If you're still noticing these things maybe we can get him in this week. He has tooth resorbtion and there were 2 teeth that werent extracted that are starting to show signs. Kind of wish she just would have extracted them then to be done with it.
     
  8. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the wet food was working. Dentist wanted to me to check out the potential teeth issue by having him eat the kibble. I still haven't tried regular wet food. I'm still blending and liquifying his food. Real test is will he eat a normal can of wet food. He used to just chomp it down. Now he just licks at it for 10 seconds and walks away. Like chewing hurts.
     
  9. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    And I knew something was up with him because he was all happy and cuddly and purring and ate all his food. Unfortunelty those are the signs of him being in high numbers.
     
  10. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand why they wouldn't handle those that looked questionable while he was under general anesthesia. That would be a good question for him. If he doesn't bring himself down after the bounce clears, ( that can take 6 cycles) it night be worth a vet visit to check out his extraction sites.
     
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  11. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I'll have to re read the report. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me now. I like to think they know more about this stuff than me, but if he has to have go through surgery again (soon), I will be not be happy. The clinic that did the dental and ultrasound are top notch, though. Only available through referral.
     
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  12. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    Feb 14, 2011
    Have you tested Rufus since AMPS? With a bounce you don't necessarily have to go crazy with testing, but since he's breaking bounces faster, you should definitely grab a test to make sure he's not taking a nose-dive. Plus, even with the .5U reduction, the 6U depot is still in play - it takes some time for the depot to adjust to dose changes whether they are up or down.
     
  13. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    Hi, yup I did at 12pm. 496 :banghead:
     
  14. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    Good deal...at least he didn't continue up!
     
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  15. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    @Amy&TrixieCat @Stacy & Asia , Is this "normal" or ok? Still high 400's. Bounce doesn't want to break, just am nervous. Hopefully it will break and I'm sure it will. Just sucks.
     
  16. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    Yep, this is not unusual. It can take up to 72 hours/6 cycles for a bounce to break. Rufus has shown us he likes to head to lower numbers, so I'm sure it will break at some point. Keep close tabs tonight, too. If it doesn't break within a few days, then you would want to consider re-increasing the dose - but you're not there yet. One favorite saying here is that treating FD is a marathon, not a sprint...it's the hardest lesson in patience for all of us.

    It's hard to see the numbers, but remember that Rufus is more than his numbers...be sure to look at the "whole cat"!
     
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  17. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! Yesterday was his best day numbers wise, but he slept almost the whole day. I think he just has to get used to it. He and his body are definetly fighting the lower numbers :)

    Thanks again so much for checking in on me and Rufus, and for the advice! We so appreciate it :)
     
  18. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    I'm going to try and get some late night numbers tonight, to see if any changes happen.
     
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  19. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome! We're a family here...we watch out for each other.

    Yesterday was proof that Rufus is making progress. And he does seem to be breaking the bounces more quickly...additional progress. So you are getting there....
     
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  20. HWright

    HWright Well-Known Member

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    Jun 19, 2016
    Re slurry vs canned fud “straight up:” It may be that the added liquid and purée consistency is more moisture, less stress to his mouth and easier on digestion than canned fud straight up.

    I’d be inclined to agree that the kibble and so soon before amps, could be, as others have said, a fud influenced factor.

    Also, you mentioned about resorption and the vet keeping in two back teeth that were maybe suspect. Azalea’s dental surgeon did same, though at the time it really was a matter of taking care of the worst offenders and getting Azalea out from under anesthesia and into recovery as soon as possible (age, ckd primary concerns).
     
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  21. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Dec 12, 2016
    On our civvie the vet did the same thing for one tooth. She said that because the one in front was so bad that it may be affecting that one tooth however by removing the bad one that one may be ok for years to come. She was thinking it was worth a shot at keeping the tooth.
     
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  22. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I think either his jaw is sore, one or both of those 2 teeth, or just inflammed still. I hope he get back to eating the regular wet food soon. It really is a pain to blend his food all the time. I'm not even sure at this point if he ate the dry food, could have been Ozzie. Just more gone than normal, but Ozzie doesn't really dig the new low carb kibble.
     
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  23. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    I've tried to read up on resorption, I think I get it. Not sure why they wouldn't remove the suspect ones if they have a greater chance of causing issues in the near future. I'll make sure to ask all these questions at our follow up.
     
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  24. HWright

    HWright Well-Known Member

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    Jun 19, 2016
    I know how you feel about blendering food. But it does afford you the opportunity to customize with liquid (water, bone broth, sardine water etc) and mix in supplements, pumpkin, whatever...so that things sort of....blend together...;)

    I make enough for a day’s worth at a time (currently for 4 cats) and refrigerate the rest for the next meals of the day. ;)
     
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  25. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    OK so this is what the dentist wrote regarding those 2 teeth "His upper canines also had some mild bone loss associated with them on the palatal (inside) surface. This was not enough to inspire me to extract these important teeth, but they will be teeth we will monitoring carefully moving forward."
     
  26. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Feb 28, 2012
    Since the canine teeth are so important to cats, vets try to keep them as long as possible. Neko had an iffy upper canine for three years, until she passed. No pain, and it didn't get any worse as seen on subsequent x-ray. We were also in monitor mode. And it took her about 10 days after extraction to get over the inflammation and higher numbers.

    Down Rufus! Thing of bounce days as days you get a break and do something for yourself, even if it's shopping for cat food. :p
     
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  27. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    Well, we are down to 363 now.

    Regarding the teeth, I hope the reason he isn't back to eating normal is inflammation or something besides these canine teeth. Or maybe the sutures? He's eating the same funny way as he was before dental. I'm going to see if he'll eat unadulterated wet food. Crossing fingers. I didn't realize those were the teeth until I reread the report. We have an appt tomorrow for the follow up.
     
  28. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    Did you brush her teeth ever? I bought some dental gel that you rub on their gums or put on their fur and let them lick it off. Not sure how effective it is. I'll try to remember to ask at the vet tomorrow.
     
  29. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

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    Check the toothpaste that it is diabetic safe.

    Looks like he is slowly coming down. This is where the patience pants get a little bit tight.......
     
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  30. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    I tried a couple of times. We came to an agreement about her mouth. :mad::cat:
     
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  31. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    Yup, it's sugar free. Not sure how effective of a product it is. It's a gel that you wipe on their gums on put on their paw and have them lick it off.

    Yup, I noticed the numbers are dropping. I'm going to try to wake up and get numbers during the late pm/early am!
     
  32. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    And we continue to go down again
     
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  33. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    +8 149. Woke up to him vomiting, but nothing coming out. Noticed in my notes this is 3rd time in 2 weeks (ish) that he does this at 3 am. He was super lip smacking. Noticed at these lower numbers he gets that way.
     
  34. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    Oct 2, 2017
    Does he eat overnight? Asia will vomit if she goes too long without food, and it’s usually nothing or juts clear liquid. Glad he’s coming back down, hope he starts to feel better in good numbers soon.
     
  35. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Jan 10, 2018
    I had dry food out, deli roast beef, and a can of wet food out. Neither cat touched any of it. His lip smacking was really bad. I'm sure it was the nausea from coming down in numbers. He begged for fridge food (turkey), but I didn't have any but gave him more deli roast beef. Didn't want it. Gave him some sheba that I had way back in the cabinet and he licked at that. Finally I just gave him 2 treats which he devoured.
     
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