2.24 Rufus AMPS 88/108, +1 113, +2 114, +4 86, PMPS 102, +2 66, +2.5 65, +3.25 97, +4.5 110 (AT2)

Discussion in 'Lantus (Glargine) / Levemir (Detemir)' started by Sean & Rufus, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Help! Do I dose Rufus? Probably? But still the 5u or should I drop?

    EDIT: I fed Rufus at 7:05, and immedietly tested. Retested at 7:40 am and was 108. Shot 5u. Will go down to 4.5u tonight.

    From now on will test first and then shoot :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2018
  2. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    With SLGS, that 88 has earned Rufus a reduction. Have you fed yet? You could retest 20 Minutes from your AMPS to see if he is coming up. That said, you did shoot a 96, which isn't too much different than 88. I can't tell from last night whether he is coming down still, or going back up.
     
  3. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I did feed immedietly before test. I'll test again now. Unfortunelty I didn't get any more tests in after the +2 last night.
     
  4. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Ah, ok...you may get a food influenced number then. With SLGS, it is not recommended to shoot under 90, so I had hoped he might come up on his own to a shootable number.
     
  5. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Checked again 35 mins after food is 108. Went ahead and gave full dose. I'll keep a check on him.
     
  6. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    What dose did you end up shooting? With SLGS he earned a reduction for dropping under 90, and he gave you an 88 earlier. Since Rufus is on a higher dose, I believe he should have a .5 reduction. I'm glad you are around to monitor. Next time if he is lower than 90, stall...don't feed and retest.
     
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  7. Nan & Amber

    Nan & Amber Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Rufus is really on the move! As Christie says, you'll definitely want to monitor closely today to make sure he stays out of trouble. Often, when you shoot a green number, they just surf and stay flat, so hopefully that's what he'll do today.

    OK, Rufus, you've already earned a reduction today with the 88, so no need for more drama. :D
     
  8. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Also, for your Spreadsheet, I'd stack the 108 under the 88 in the AMPS field, since you shot the 108, and maybe just make a note in the remarks.
     
  9. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I gave him 5. I'll go down tonight. I'm kind of in a tug of war with the board, my vet, and the internist about his dosage. I was supposed to keep him at 6u until I have a follow up with the internist. They weren't too happy about me decreasing without discussing it with them. Ugh.

    Yeah, usually routine is feed, immedietly test, then shoot. I'll have to test first from now on. It's just that he's so happy to eat when he wakes me up :)
     
  10. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I was wondering how to document this!
     
  11. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    It can be challenging to follow multiple (differing) suggestions...but, I bet if your internist and vet knew the progress in numbers the last few days, they would agree that 6u is too much :)...in fact, they'd probably be freaking out that you are shooting some of the preshots you have been ;)
     
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  12. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    So, if you don't shoot under 90 on SLGS, won't there be a huge bounce later on then? It doesn't cause too many issues? I suppose it would be like a fur shot. Just don't want to lose the great progress we are making!
     
  13. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    The internist is top notch, super knowledgeable about a LOT of things. She has a diabetic cat. Thing that gets me is she doesn't test her kitty too often. She wants Rufus to be between 150-250. I said well the other day he was about a 100, and she said her cat gets down to 40 regulary no big deal! That's why I get confused on where is a good number to be at. I've only met with the internist once, and I think that 150-250 is for people who don't home test. To keep the kitty in a safe zone. I would be happier like 100-150 I think, no?
     
  14. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    That's where the stall/don't feed and retest is helpful...you can see if his BG number is coming up on its own.
     
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  15. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Part of this process, I think, I getting familiar with your cat and how he reacts to insulin. Your internist may be more comfortable with less data since she already knows with experience how her cat reacts, and she may be using a different insulin, who knows? Me personally, I wouldn't be happy with a 40 regularly on an AT2 :eek:. You are still in the data gathering mode, but certainly as it says in the SLGS sticky, your goal is to achieve flat numbers above 90, there is no need to push a cat into numbers lower than that.
     
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  16. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    Rufus is working it!

    I have to say your internist scares me, at least with regards to FD. Between not testing her own FD kitty regularly, being A-OK with frequent 40s, and being upset about reducing a dose when Rufus gets below 90 while at the same time wanting him between 150-200 (which, btw, is not the normal range and would not lead to potential remission)....it's a recipe for disaster IMO. If you held Rufus at the 6U when he was asking for reductions, especially if you weren't testing, you very well could have landed in the ER with a symptomatic hypo, which can be life-threatening. Many vets - definitely not just yours - are just a bit too casual about insulin and FD, and they generally don't have all that much education about and experience with it, coupled with the fact that they have to juggle knowledge about many different diseases with different kinds of animals. You are doing the right thing with testing and reducing when the numbers call for a reduction. Many/most of us do "go rogue" with regards to dosing basically because WE are the ones living with our diabetic cats.
     
  17. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I will say it was the dental specialist who wasn't happy with me reducing dose without talking with internist first. I think the internist will be ok with it, I hope. And in all actuality, I may not even need to go back to her after the follow up. The ultrasound showed nothing abnormal, and we haven't received a written report, so I assume everything is ok, besides the food allergies/intolerance. My regular vet is probably not going to be working with me getting Rufus regulated (because she doesn't want to), but I need to have someone to ask questions and get meds. I might go back to my old vet. I'm not sure yet. Biggest thing for me was to get him in better numbers, and to see what if anything was preventing that. I'm thinking everone can conclude the dental was what the biggest issue is.
     
  18. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I think what the plan will be is to talk to current vet about being ok with me handling the dosing side, as long as she is ok with me getting advice or meds from her if needed. Not sure what she'll say. I know already she wasn't happy about me getting info from here.
     
  19. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    It is tough to balance and we do need vets - they do have a lot of knowledge we don't. Just remember that what you have been doing is keeping Rufus safe. It can take some time, but maybe she'll eventually actually learn from you - it can be rocky at first, but many vets do open their eyes once they see the success of an FDMB kitty!
     
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  20. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    She's pretty stubborn, but hopefully!! All I want to do is keep Rufus safe and prolong his life. I think she has good intentions, so hopefully she'll soften her stance. :)
     
  21. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Well, and another thing is she refuses to let me use a human meter. I can't afford to keep using the AT2 with all the testing. Wonder what she'll say about that...
     
  22. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Maybe think about following TR? With TR you can shoot anything over 50 but still would stall and NOT FEED if you think the preshot might be a dropping number. That might align more with your vet’s dosing.

    When I first came to the FDMB, I wasn’t home testing. I was going to my vet every few days for a check. I bought a meter and brought it there to see if it worked. My vet gently pushed me into testing. As you can see from Max’s charts I became quite a testaholic! At first I wasn’t listening to folks here who were suggesting increases and waited to talk to my vet. Soon I realized they knew what they were doing and eventually my vet stopped giving dosing advice and handled Max’s other issues. I sent him his ss every couple of weeks. At one point I wasn’t sending it that often and he reminded me to send it. He showed my ss to his vet students who came through his office. He said I handled FD better than any of his clients. And he’s a Board Certified Internist!
     
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  23. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Here's your link to yesterday's post. When you see a +2 that is lower than the preshot, there's a good chance it'll be an active cycle and further testing migth be a good idea. Or at least good to bed with some slightly higher carb food out so he stays safe.

    Congrats on the reduction.:cool: I expect Rufus is also gettting over some glucose toxicity, helping his journey down the dosing scale.
    Is she buying the strips for you? Is the vet looking at your spreadsheet daily? Didn't think so. What some people do is use a human meter most times, and use the AT on a day the vet wants a curve done.
    I almost switched vets to a local one I had used before, who also had a diabetic cat. I liked her. She rescued the diabetic cat from the SPCA. She told me she home tested. All good. Then she admitted she came home one day to a hypo'ed cat. :( Occasionally home testing isn't enough.

    Surf safe today Rufus. :D
     
  24. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Someone told me I can't do TR if I feed dry food and/or free feed. I don't know. And the 50 is a human meter #?
     
  25. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    Correct, all low carb wet food or raw is a requirement for using Tight Regulation. (and better for the cat). The 50 is a reduction point on a human meter if using TR.
     
  26. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    So I should go down to 4.5 tonight then, right?
     
  27. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Even if the dry if low carb though?
     
  28. tiffmaxee

    tiffmaxee Well-Known Member

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    Do you have to feed dry? Can you eventually get him to eat canned and maybe freeze dried or cooked chicken thighs for treats? I forgot you feed dry.
     
  29. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Problem is the other cat won't eat wet. Hopefully one day I'll be able to switch Ozzie! Rufus eats wet now, but will eat the dry too if left out.
     
  30. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Ask yourself, where might Rufus be today without what you have learned here?

    The ss tells the story.

    Go Rufus!!!
     
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  31. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Oh I know for sure! So glad to be testing at home. I guess it comes down to each vet that I work with (or have) all have a downfall in an area of FD. And I totally get that each Dr does things differently. I do respect them all. Just wish more Dr's would be open to outside info, you know?
     
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  32. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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  33. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

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    :D Looks like Rufus is confirming the decision to go down to 4.5 units tonight.

    Yes, even "low or zero" carb dry means using SLGS only. Dry is metabolized at a different rate than wet and the studies with TR were only done with wet or raw.
     
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  34. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Pretty flat today! Looks like I might need to get up a few times middle of the night for testing, never been this low for PMPS :nailbiting::nailbiting:
     
  35. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    Like someone flicked a light switch such a difference on that SS! Proud of you, Rufus! Keep being awesome in greens and blues! :cool::D:cool::D

    Sean, enjoy your PMPS pick me up! :coffee: ;)
     
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  36. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    And I'm ready for my bed now! Ugh! But him going down the ladder is totally worth it!
     
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  37. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    What an absolutely terrific day :cool::D, I'm very happy to see Rufus doing so well! Let's hope for a nice easy cycle tonight :cat:
     
  38. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    You know I was just thinking. His numbers have been terrefic, but he's not liking it so much. He has some of his old traits coming back this week, but overall this week he's still really sleepy and more nauseaous then before. I hope the sleepy and nauseua is from the lower numbers and he'll get "used" to these soon. I was thinking he'd be back to his self with these lower numbers, but maybe it takes a while to get back at it?
     
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  39. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Or it's possible that he is still getting too much insulin and that takes it out of him??
     
  40. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    It can be very hard for them to feel "right" in lower numbers, that I'm sure of. They get used to being in higher numbers, so those lovely high greens and low blues are unfamiliar. Maverick used to be very happy in pinks, now he tends to show more spunk at low yellows. We're working our way down to where he shows some nice activity in high blues ;). Rufus spent a while in high numbers, so he needs some time to adjust and feel good with those newer numbers.
     
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  41. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! I do hear that it takes time to feel "normal" in lower numbers, and the vet(s) keep telling me to take a step back, but man is it hard! Just want my "old" little buddy back the way he was! And to be fair to him, he pretty much went from reds to blues. Numbers just dropped like a brick.
     
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  42. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    I am just slightly jealous of your amazing progress these last few days ;) . Remember always... He's still your little buddy, and way more than his numbers. We can get so wrapped up in just seeing the numbers, like just seeing the forest for the trees...
     
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  43. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I know it's unbelievable the numbers in 1 week! Those teeth must have been really bothering him. It's been an interesting week and a half. Curious to see where we'll end up dosing wise. He was in red and blacks for almost 12 weeks. No progress and constant worry. Hopefully Mav starts getting a little lower soon, too! :)
     
  44. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    I've seen many people with unbelievable results post tooth work. I would love to see Rufus OTJ..antijinx. Thanks :), but he's a hard nut to crack...
     
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  45. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    +2 66 UGh! Good and bad :nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting::nailbiting: Gave him a handful of treats.....
     
  46. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Steady now, he's fine. Let's get another test in 20 mins. What do you have for high carb wet food? Any foods with gravy?
     
  47. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I have higher carb wet food, but not sure he'll eat it. I gave him about 10 treats. Hopefully that was ok. He seems more alert now. He was really sleeping hardcore before I tested him.
     
  48. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any syrup on hand? May not be needed, but good to have ready. Treats are fine, they just metabolize differently, I believe they may stay in the system longer.
     
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  49. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I do have syrup. Gosh I'll have to remember to pick up some fancy feast gravy. Wish this low number would have been in the am!
     
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  50. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    You'll need a little of this too :coffee::coffee:
     
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  51. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sean and Rufus, I'm just chiming in to say welcome. Reading your post today seems very familiar to where we started with Titan last summer. You are doing very well! Keep your vet apprised of what you are doing, best thing we did was to share the SS with ours. Take a peek at Titans SS from last summer, SCARY!! Oh by the way you are practically a neighbor, we are in River Falls WI. Take care Ed.
     
  52. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Time for another test :)
     
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  53. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    65. Gave him some higher carb wet food. Think it's 15% carbs? He's got an appetite so that's good. Weird that those treats did nothing for his bg, unless it goes up later.
     
  54. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ed! Yeah his numbers are going crazy. Weird what happens in 1 week! I'm working with 2 specialists and my regular vet. Don't think we'll need the specialists anymore :)
     
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  55. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Excellent, about 1-2tsps is good, he may need more later, you don't want him to get too full too quickly. He's mostly flat, those treats may likely have kept him from dropping further. We want him above 68...test again 20-30 mins.
     
  56. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Will do. I actually gave him about 2 oz! Whoops
     
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  57. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    Remember the high carb food will effect his numbers for up to two hours, so looks like a PJ party :p
     
  58. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Lol that's ok, first time Mav dropped under 68 on AT2 I gave him a half a can of 20% Fancy feast ....he came up pretty quick after that :rolleyes:
     
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  59. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    @MyTitan that was scary last summer! And now is on 4.5! That's awesome!
     
  60. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    PJ party in progress in this condo tonight? :cool:
     
  61. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    His usual should be 6.5u but we ran into pancreatitis this week , he quit eating so I adjusted. Should be up to 6.5 again but maybe not. He's an acro kitty but I do believe the dive down from 12 plus units was when we beat back the IAA.
     
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  62. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    I think so, it's been so long since I hosted one I missed it LOL :woot:
     
  63. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Lol, me too..Ed and I need to live vicariously through other PJ parties :D
     
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  64. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Well better tonight than tomorrow night. I'm driving to Canada on Monday to buy insulin!
     
  65. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    Ouch, save that much ????
     
  66. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    $300 vial here, $64 there. 5.5 hours each way. I'm going to buy 2 vials , so about $200 total with gas vs. $600 here.
     
  67. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    +3.25 = 97
     
  68. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    Totally understand.
     
  69. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    You will need a 4.5 to make sure it's not the high carbs holding him up.
     
  70. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    That's better, glad Rufus is back above 68! You'll want another test in 1 hour, to see if he's flat or on the rise.
     
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  71. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Looks like Ed and I are on the same wavelength :cool:
     
  72. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    If the 4.5 is around where it is now, am I safe to go to bed?
     
  73. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    I would think so, if you haven't given any med-high carb since 2.5. In other words you want him to be in the safe zone on his own and not artificially (high carbs). Plus I might set alarm to get a 5.5 or 6.5 if 4.5 is a good number just to make sure.
     
  74. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    Depending on the carb intervention, but you'd want 2 consecutive tests, about an hour apart, that show him rising without food. Did you feed anything at +3.25?
     
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  75. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    M
    Mav and Titan have been shark hunting buddies for a while.
     
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  76. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    No, no more food after +2.5
     
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  77. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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  78. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    And here I was excited and planning to go to sleep early tonight. Hahaha. Nope! But I guess if he keeps earning reductions it's worth it
     
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  79. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

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    When is your 4.5 scheduled ?
     
  80. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

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    We don't normally do back to back reductions, but I'll tag @Wendy&Neko and @Sandy and Black Kitty and we'll see what they think.
     
  81. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Oh I wasn't planning on another one already, this was his first cycle at 4.5.
     
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  82. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    12am
     
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  83. Sandy and Black Kitty

    Sandy and Black Kitty Well-Known Member

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    Yes, there is still depot action from the 5u in the mix. You will have to take it cycle by cycle right now. If downward pressure picks up too much steam a one time reduced dose, to drain the depot some, might be a good strategy.

    Eyes on the road and hands on the wheel. This is an unpredictable ride. :cool:
     
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  84. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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  85. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to set an alarm for a +6.5
     
  86. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    He's climbing nicely on his own I believe. 2 hrs after carbs onboard.
     
    Sean & Rufus likes this.
  87. MyTitan

    MyTitan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Heck of a way to meet, enjoyed the party!
     
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  88. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    And it wasn't even that much food. I'd say 15 treats and an ounce of higher carb wet food.
     
  89. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    thanks for checking in!
     
  90. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    What Sandy said. :)

    Surf safe Rufus.:D
     
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  91. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    +6.5 139. Slight bounce perhaps?
     

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