? 3.13 Rufus AMPS 118, +6 105 Adequan ?

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Sean & Rufus, Mar 13, 2018.

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  1. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    So, Rufus pooped a little this morning. About an inch, but better then nothing? I don't know, sure seems like another issue. Hopefully this increased dose of miralax and cisapride will start kicking in. Seemed like a little ordeal to get that poop out and it wasn't super dry, but it wasn't squishy either. It was very dense. Sorry for TMI!

    Yesterday
     
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  2. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry about TMI poop stuff, you're in great company on this board with that! :joyful:

    Hope Rufus gets sorted out soon and the meds help with that. I'm sorry for your bust vet visit yesterday. That is frustrating. I don't understand why all these vets near you won't use adequan? o_O The second FD vet I went to basically said he didn't think it worked, but I'm sure if I said I would like to try it anyway he would have let me. Did the vet seem to be on board with trying it, but just wanted some of these other issues to settle first? Or did they think it was a complete contradiction? Hopefully the gaba will help a lot with the arthritis. Asia is only on pain meds for arthritis, which isn't ideal, I'd like to address it further than just pain management, but at this point she has so many other things going on, not sure adding yet another med in the mix is wise.
     
  3. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Stacy :) The vet said that since he wasn't eating right, the adequan could make it worse. Seems she had no desire to ever use adequan on him, which is dissapointing seeing as she uses it on her kitty. They are going to call in a few for check up. I'll ask again. I din't give Rufus the gaba last night, only the bupe. that stuff knocked him out, and didn't want the gaba on top of that. So another thing with the gaba is only my old old vet has it in pill form. But she doesn't think it's a good idea to keep a cat on it long term as t can cause liver issues. She was very reluctant to give me a weeks worth. She is also the one that is telling me to push further with the IBD/lymphoma issue, which I agree with.

    Just so much going on. He seems better. Hanging out more, more involved. Purring more. But eating is down, won't jump, can't poop. I just keeping thinking that 1 thing fixed will break it all open, but it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back (sometimes 2).
     
  4. Stacy & Asia

    Stacy & Asia Well-Known Member

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    That is good news, you have to remember, he is not his lab results! If he's feeling good and acting right, that is a huge positive and those are the things you hang on to, the other things may come along with time and intervention, but until then, he's doing well all things considered. It is tricky balancing multiple ailments, but we all do the best we can and usually the cats aren't as bothered about it as we are! ;)
     
  5. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Oh I know, but my huge concern is the not eating. He is eating maybe half, maybe less, the cals he needs for the last 5 days. And when he does eat, it's food that he has an intolerance to. I just want him to understand that if he eats a different food, he'll feel better later on! At least that's what I'm hoping the issue is!
     
  6. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    It sounds like the meds may be starting to kick in with the pooping, so that's something. If he is backed up, it can take a few days for things to fully clear out.

    I'm still iffy on the idea of using both bupe and gaba at the same time...mind you, though, I've never used gaba, so I have nothing other than my gut instinct to back that up. Did she say why you should use both? And actually, what is her reason for prescribing them to begin with - just so we have a feel for her thought process?

    I've never heard about Adequan making a poor appy worse...in fact I've heard the opposite in that once arthritis pain is addressed, it improves appetite.

    Sometimes it does help to try and step back and take a deep breath - easier said than done, I know. But you don't want to be constantly changing things before something has a chance to work. Some things do take a little time to kick in, so patience can be helpful when trying to resolve some of these things.
     
  7. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I don't remeber exactly. It was a lot of technical mumbo jumbo. Something about his sore throat and the gaba for the arthritis. Said that if his body needs the bupe it will use it, and if not it won't? It's a narcotic and gaba isn't and the body will use what it needs? Gosh now I am confused. I haven't given the gaba today. Not sure I will. She said to space them out 2 hours apart to see which each does to him, but he does the same on both. Lethargic and sleeps (at least for the first 2 hours).

    I honestly don't know what to do at this point regarding the adequan. Maybe hopefully my IM knows a collegue that will do it. If that is the case, I'm sure that I'll never be given a script for it though.

    That's what I was thinking. If he is in pain, and the adequan helps that, hopefully it would improve appetite.
     
  8. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    The idea of using the two at the same time really does make me nervous - again, though, this is my gut. I asked around about it, and it seems using the two together could cause nervous system depression that could lead to complications like respiratory distress.

    I have heard gaba causes sleepiness. I have had experience with bupe, and I've seen spaced out kitties; happy kitties; scarily stoned kitties. Bupe is can be very useful under the right circumstances and at the right dose. On the flip side, it can cause constipation, and I don't know if you want to be adding to that issue right now.

    Again, I'd consider taking a step back and pondering all that is going on. Maybe write down a bunch of observations and concerns, and then give the vet a call with that list in hand, so you won't forget what you want to ask, and so you can write down notes as she's answering your questions.

    The adequan situation is just baffling my mind...I wish I had an answer for you on that one.
     
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  9. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    Also - just a couple thoughts on his throat issue. As Bobbie mentioned last night, the pilling without a chaser can cause esophageal erosion. And, if he happens to have some acid reflux on top of that, that will also contribute to the sore throat. And of course maybe the sore throat is why his eating is down; maybe acid reflux is why he's lip smacking....sort of a double-whammy. So, maybe at least for a while, using pepcid consistently will help with that issue. Just a thought....

    I don't know how esophageal erosion is healed, unless it's just be removing the thing that caused it - and in this case, it would be using the water chaser after pillin that was mentioned yesterday. You want to use a fair amount of water to ensure the pill gets down, but you do want to be careful about squirting it in somewhat slowly - you don't want him aspirating the water.
     
  10. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for checking about those 2 meds together! I haven't given the gaba since Saturday I believe. I should be writing these down before I forget! So currently his only med are insulin, cisapride, and bupe. No nauseua meds. No supplements. We'll have to see how his appetite is at noon. He ate about half his breakfast and had 3 treats. Again he is downstairs and stoned. I went to check on him and he starts purring immedielty, he must really like that bupe.

    No I am in the posistion of which vet to talk to. I really wish I would not even had gone yesterday. Just complicated the situation. So my plan is to call my the vet I've been using currently tomorrow about his poop. See what they say. Talked to them yesterday about coming in. The IM is difficult to get a hold of. They have tech s that will call back, but not ideal situation. We do have an appointment next Thursday. We really need to figure out the nausea / inappetance issue. IS it from constipation? IBD from food intolerance? Cancer? It's just a fricken roller coaster. He's good for a time, and then back down again. And also it's so frustrating when I know he is eating a food that more then likely is causing issues, but everyone wants me to continue on fancy feast. He's just going in circles with it. He eats it, it causes issues, he doesn't want to eat right for a while, then he starts eating it again. Why oh why will he not eat the novel proteins? I seriusly might just give him dry food if he'll eat it because it is novel. I might have to up his insulin but at this point what we are doing is NOT working.
     
  11. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Oh sorry using miralax right now, too.
     
  12. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunely I know pepcid causes him some constipation. But going forward I think miralax as maintance would help.

    Figured out a solution to this! Pill him and miralax chaser :)
     
  13. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    It has gotten very complicated for you. Didn't she say use pepcid yesterday, or am I remembering that incorrectly? I would consider adding that in - it may help with the throat problem. I just had a memory while thinking about all this: Trix was always a very vocal cat, but at one point after the CKD set in she lost her voice - just a squeak would come out. At that point, she was also started on Pepcid - and over time, her voice came back. I believe the acid reflux caused by the CKD was burning her throat and that caused her to lose her voice.

    Unfortunately a few things in the mix are going to possibly cause constipation. But, it does become a balancing act - and it does take time to figure out the right combination that works best for all the issues at hand. You are persistent so you'll get there. But, I would be hesitant to change things too frequently, because then you really don't know what's causing what.

    I did the mirialx chaser with Trix - worked very well on all counts!
     
  14. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Like I said the other day, I have too many cooks in the kitchen! Wish we had 1 point of contact. Everyone had different med ideas, duration, combination, etc...
     
  15. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    That's why standing back for a minute and taking a deep breath, and writing stuff down, can help.
     
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  16. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I get that! I tried taking him off of everything, mainly to get the constipation issue resolved. He was on onda, cerenia, and gaba last thursday. It was also his worst eating day. That's when I first thought to take him off everything, becuase if he was on all of that and it didn't work...

    Vet yesterday didn't talk about pepcid. Current vet doesn't like him on pepcid. IM says it's ok for life. Which goes back to my point of different advice form different vets. I get that they all have there own way of doing things, but they all do differ on duration of meds. IM never said anything about stopping or taking a break from cerenia. Vet yesterdday said after 4 days they can get brain damage. I obviuosly just want to do what is best for him, without harming him.
     
  17. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    totally! Thing is is that I have a ton of mental notes, but everyhting seems to change on a daily basis. What works one day doesn't the next. But yeah, i should be writing it all down.
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  18. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Have talked to 8 vets in total, none will do the adequan. Ugh!
     
  19. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    That is just so weird. Adequan has been used for cat for at least 7 years - and I say tat because that's when I started using it for the first time. What is their reasoning??
     
  20. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    That they have never used it in cats before. That's what they all keep telling me. I'll just keep calling.

    These places have no problem giving cerenia to cat, and that drug is not for cats.
     
  21. Wendy&Neko

    Wendy&Neko Senior Member Moderator

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    What dose of bupe is Rufus getting? If he's stoned, maybe it's too high. Bupe is dosed based on weight and is a range. Often vets prescribe at the high end and it's OK to back it off a bit until he's happy but not stoned.

    Old school was Cerenia was not to be used long term. New school is it's OK. Depends which school the vet went too. Neko's IM vet was fairly young and up to date - she was on Cerenia as a daily drug. Fine if there are no liver issues.
     
  22. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    It seems after about 4 hours he's "normal". His appetite is a little better today, so not sure if it's the bupe or because he pooped a little. He was still lip smacking a little.

    Ok. So bupe dose. Contracting info here. On the label, it says to give him .2ml. Then down below it say Buprenophine Oral Solution 0.3mg/m . But the pre filled syrings are at .3ml. Did they screw up the syringes?!
     
  23. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    So I found a vet that will do Adequan, but it's only 1 time a month. Seems different then what is talked about on here. Also, the vet yesterday and now this lady today at a different place say that the Adequan severly diminishes their appetite. Is that true? I don't need the shot to exacerbate the current issues...
     
  24. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    There is a loading cycle with adequan - usually twice a week for 4 weeks; once a week for 4 weeks; every other week for 4 weeks, and then usually once every 3-4 weeks as needed for maintenance. At least that's the protocol my vet followed.

    I never saw diminished appetite because of adequan. However, by the time some kitties are an adequan, they're sometimes getting to be pretty senior and other health issues that may cause diminished appetite.

    I swear you are hearing things about adequan from these vets that I've never heard in all the time that I've used it!
     
  25. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    Also, like Wendy's Neko, Trix was on Cerenia daily for about 2 years with no adverse effects.
     
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  26. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this clinic said they'll do it, but I have to use them from now on, and they need to do a full exam and all that. I get it. But, he's had so much "work" done recently, can't they use that info? Plus the whole 1 time a month doesn't sit right with me.

    I'm going to call the IM and see if she knows somebody that will do it.
     
  27. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    That's a long time! I'm just concerned and hoping he doesn't need it for life. I'd like to figure the issue out, if possible. Who knows.
     
  28. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Specialist and that clinic doesn't carry Adequan at all.
     
  29. Amy&TrixieCat

    Amy&TrixieCat Well-Known Member

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    You can always see if they'll transfer records for you...but a lot of medical facilities (human or pet) do like to have their "own" set of labs and all that.

    If this vet is current enough to know at least a little bit about adequan, maybe you'll be happy with them????

    First things first, though...maybe just focus on the constipation/nausea issue for the moment and when you feel like you've regrouped a bit, revisit the adequan thing.
     
  30. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering though, could be wrong since he's on pain meds, that the arthritis is part of the issue. If he's not wanting to go because there is pain involved, and then gets blocked up? I do know that he doesn't squat like he used to. Very helpful for collecting urine.
     
  31. Sean & Rufus

    Sean & Rufus Well-Known Member

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    Found a place to do the Adequan!
     
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