4/11 Ducia AMPS 196 ,1U, +2 149, +4 40, +4.10 61, +4.5 68, +5 60, +5.5 51, +6 67, +6.5 67

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Tanya and Ducia

Tanya and Ducia

Member Since 2017
Yesterday :
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-226-1u-underdose-on-top-of-reduction.176145/

Good morning,

After very low green and going below 50 once in the AM cycles 4/7 - 4/8 Ducia's dose was reduced to 1U.

The AM cycle of 4/9 on 1U showed again good respond - too low to nice Green followed by another night of bouncing.

Last cycle on 4/10 AM was all Yellow. I accidentally gave her under dose - I left a drop large enough to mention as a factor. LARGE DROP, maybe a quarter of a unit large. I was told by one the members that it was unlikely to see its influence on the current cycle but I am listing it here as a factor that might be needed for the future dose making decision.

Right now it is her 5th cycle on the reduced dose. The current cycle of 04/10 PM was like this: AMPS 323, +2 322, +4 260, +6 214, +8 195.

I am uncertain about the dosage. Do I keep the dose for another cycle or do I increase? IDK.

I can see the disappointing numbers but there was a good respond on 4/9 on 1U after bouncy PM cycle with reduction. If I call this reduction another failure right now then my judgement is based on two bouncing nights and the possible influence of the under dose on 04/10 AM cycle. Is it sufficient data to make sound assessment? The 1.25U dose seems pushing her too low consistently. It's dangerous. I have to test frequently preventing her from healthy sleeping. Not to mention ear poking. No one can get well without good sleeping/eating.

What would you do with the dose?

It is 4 hours before the next shot (due at noon PST). I will be checking in/out in the next few hours and would appreciate to hear from you.

Thank you.

Wishing all our kitties good day and strong health.
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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Hello Tanya!

Others with more experience will soon weigh in, but I'll put in one vote for holding for one more cycle before increasing, possibly depending on what her pre-shot is. I'm basing this on hints that she might be breaking a bounce this morning and have some downward momentum by shot time. I don't think you'd want to do an increase under those circumstances. My only qualm is, I know that with a DKA kitty sometimes it's better to be more aggressive with insulin, but I don't know enough to recommend one way or another with respect to that. Interested to hear what others have to say!
 
Nan & Amber said:
Others with more experience will soon weigh in, but I'll put in one vote for holding for one more cycle before increasing, possibly depending on what her pre-shot is.
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Hello Nan,

thank you for the input. I will update the SS as soon as have new readings.

Waiting to hear other's opinions.
 
Hi Tanya! I am confused , the SS is reading 4/10 yet your numbers in your post today (4/11) are corresponding to yesterday's numbers. I have been off the boards for a few days, so I might have missed something.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi Tanya! I am confused , the SS is reading 4/10 yet your numbers in your post today (4/11) are corresponding to yesterday's numbers. I have been off the boards for a few days, so I might have missed something.
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Greetings from the land the really confused ones!
I corrected the original post so hopefully it makes sense.The title read 4/11 before this correction because I was typing it when 4/11 has already started as calendar date.
Right now, on 4/11 at 10 am PST Ducia is still in the 4/10 PM cycle that started at midnight or 12AM PST of 04/10.
As if it isn't confusing enough I keep referring to the AM cycles as "yesterday", sorry, my attention to details fades by the day.
Does it make any sense now?
 
Hmmm.... so, no downward momentum at shot time. If the more experienced people don't weigh in before then I think I'd still go conservative and stick with this dose for at least the one more cycle before increasing-- especially since you've been worried lately about underdosing. We want to make sure we are seeing what this dose can do before changing again, and six cycles is what is called for under TR (although again, with a DKA kitty sometimes those rules get adjusted).

I had noticed that you seemed to be working your way around the clock with the dose times!
 
Nan & Amber said:
Hmmm.... so, no downward momentum at shot time. If the more experienced people don't weigh in before then I think I'd still go conservative and stick with this dose for at least the one more cycle before increasing-- especially since you've been worried lately about underdosing. We want to make sure we are seeing what this dose can do before changing again, and six cycles is what is called for under TR (although again, with a DKA kitty sometimes those rules get adjusted).

I had noticed that you seemed to be working your way around the clock with the dose times!
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Hi,
AMPS is 196, 4 hours after meal.
Do you think I should keep the dose of 1U?
 
Nan & Amber said:
and six cycles is what is called for under TR
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We hold for a minimum of 6 cycles going up in dose. There is no minimum after reducing a dose. You hold the length of time it takes to clear the bounce and wait to see what her nadirs are like once the bounce is done. That can take up to six cycles but at some point kitties start taking less than six cycles to clear a bounce. ECID at a point in time. This is the 4th cycle since the last low green, and it looks like she was breaking the bounce last night - so I would wait one more cycle at this dose to see what she does before deciding if you need to increase.
 
Nan & Amber said:
I had noticed that you seemed to be working your way around the clock with the dose times!
Click to expand...
It must be getting the best out of me. It took 9 syringes to fill one unit this morning. I just didn't see what I was doing and then, trying to expel air bubbles I spelt out completely 3 one unit doses. It's somebody's weekly supply out of $300 vile. I have relatively good optics to see thru for that. Didn't work today.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
There is no minimum after reducing a dose. You hold the length of time it takes to clear the bounce and wait to see what her nadirs are like once the bounce is done.
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It's good to hear but I feel as if being under pressure with the past ketones history. Ducia gives much, much better numbers now but if you look at the SS - the early March and the mid March PM cycles you will see a long periods of bouncing. I know that a cat can bounce until she stops.:) But keeping the ketones in mind and knowing that they can start reappearing in the matter of hours any delay in increasing seems like Russian roulette game (it's when a revolver is loaded with one bullet instead of 7, the drum is rolled and then the players do shoot at their own hearts/heads without knowing if the bullet is in the barrel and he/she can get killed. Sick, but used to be attractive for some Adrenalin seekers in a mass scale).
I hope Ducia has a good surfing today, I do. The Greens, even the Light once are good for her.
Thank you for being here!
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
Greetings from the land the really confused ones!
I corrected the original post so hopefully it makes sense.The title read 4/11 before this correction because I was typing it when 4/11 has already started as calendar date.
Right now, on 4/11 at 10 am PST Ducia is still in the 4/10 PM cycle that started at midnight or 12AM PST of 04/10.
As if it isn't confusing enough I keep referring to the AM cycles as "yesterday", sorry, my attention to details fades by the day.
Does it make any sense now?
Click to expand...
Okay, now it makes sense. I was wondering if you were shooting PM dose early in the morning. It does look like she is clearing the bounce and glad you held the 1 unit for now.
 
40 @+ 3.55, 3 tsp gravy+2 tsp %5 pate; 61 @ 4.10 1/2 tsp 5% pate.
I guess the concern for an increase has just ruled itself out.
 
Question: I have fed her 2.5 tsp 5% pate with gravy. She is 68 at +4.5. The gravy will wear off soon.
It is onlu +4 and I don't want to overfull her.
Normally her next meal of another 2.75 tsp of 3% pate would be given around +5.5.
Under the circumstances, when and how much should I offer her food?
She seems to have response to 2 tsp.
I gave her 1 tsp 3% at +3 (I thought I could skip the ear poking) but 55 min later a drop of 100 so one teaspoon doesn't work.
 
Nan & Amber said:
Well, looks like she's coming up pretty easily. Phew!
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Knock-knock on wood!
Is it possible that 3% food as opposed her previous fav of 6% and %5 is the reason for that?
I've feeding it to her for the past couple of days.
Is food alone manipulation with BG possible for her?
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
Ear licking with "Judas" face expression. I am going to another guilt trip.
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Hah!!!! She knows how to manipulate you, doesn't she?

I think you're doing a good job steering with food-- let's see if she stays up on her own now.

Not sure if the dip in carb % caused this, as opposed to just breaking the bounce, but I think I have heard some caregivers describe their cats being that sensitive to carbs.
 
Nan & Amber said:
I think you're doing a good job steering with food-- let's see if she stays up on her own now.
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She is currently 60 at +5; It is 50 min after gravy and 2 tsp 5% and I will retest in 30 min.
If the number is lower I will offer some more snacking LC.
If stays the same or slightly above - until what time is it safe to wait before snack offering?
Nan & Amber said:
but I think I have heard some caregivers describe their cats being that sensitive to carbs.
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I read earlier today on the Main Forum that's someone Dad had a cat who was diabetic, not given any insulin at all but switched from dry to wet only. The cat lived until 18YO; never had an injection.
I would love this for Ducia!
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
She is currently 60 at +5; It is 50 min after gravy and 2 tsp 5% and I will retest in 30 min.
If the number is lower I will offer some more snacking LC.
If stays the same or slightly above - until what time is it safe to wait before snack offering?
Click to expand...

You could wait another 30mins to make sure she stays up-- it'll make her +5.5 snack late, but of course she's gotten some extras.
 
No, she is still falling - 51 at +5.5 1h25m after snack.
I gave her 2.5 tsp 3%-4% mix with water.
Except for the gravy, she hasn't anything extra today. She has another 4 tsp LC until +9 to stay within her reg food intake.
I checked her food/water for yesterday and it is as a total in her remarks section of the SS.
Would you please be able to take a look and let me know if I feed her OK? We are constantly arguing at home that I want to overfeed her. I disagree. Some beans in the house here want to make a feline Barbey out of her.
Once she reached the target weight of 9 lbs over the weekend I switched her to 1 1/2 5.5 oz LC, water about 32 ml a day.
 
The food amounts seem reasonable to me-- I don't think you're overfeeding her at all.

She's still more or less maintaining, but I'm glad she got her LC snack now, hopefully it will help her surf along for a while longer in these good numbers.
 
Nan & Amber said:
The food amounts seem reasonable to me-- I don't think you're overfeeding her at all.

She's still more or less maintaining, but I'm glad she got her LC snack now, hopefully it will help her surf along for a while longer in these good numbers.
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Thank you! The feeding is at the trial and error stage. I am glad she is eating her 3% Friskie but it loaded with Phosphorous, and has to be replaced.
 
Glad to see that +6 number there, she's having a great, safe cycle!

I need to log off now, hope you guys have a nice relaxing rest of this cycle and she gives you a chance to sleep tonight!
 
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