4/23 Willow PMPS 308bg +3 67bg +4 33bg

Good morning

Previous tread http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-22-willow-pmps-343bg-3-217bg.156645/#post-1659427

Question this morning Willow is 196bg do I still give her the full 3.5units?
We know from her charts that she can have a 300+ bg drop from this amount on insulin.
Last night she did not eat any of the food we left out, she is eating now

 

As long as you can monitor and have plenty of strips SHOOOOOOOT the full dose she can't drop 300 points from here. You want to shoot those lower numbers to try and keep her lower permanently

 

Good luck with the cycle and keep up on the monitoring.

 

Okay gave it to her and will watch her
A little worried, this will be my first really low number shot

 

It gets less scary the more you do it. When they are in lower numbers and you shoot low, they tend not to drop as fast. But that said, you want to still monitor her. Shout out if you need help.

 

PS she is just beautiful BTW!

 

Morning,
Thank you,
I have a busy day and between my wif and I we will be checking her as much as we can.
Looks like the new amount is bringing her down. Hope is stays in the good green numbers all day!

 

Teeheehee I can't wait until you have a green PS! I hope she shows you some greens today but I suspect she's going to bounce from last night so it will be a bit of a fizzer for you but it's very good practice - prove me wrong Willow prove me wrong

 

thank you
She is a cool cat, I never had a cat who acted like her. She is always by my side when I'm home. When I leave and come home she merows really loud and comes to me. From there no matter where I go in the house she is right behind me. Take a shower? She sets outside the door, go to the rest room? She follows me in and lays at my feet. I get out of bed in the morning? She is right behind me. Should have named her shadow.

 

Lol
You almost sound like the Vet, he said Willow had proved him wrong so many times he gave up on thinking of what the outcome was going to be.
I would love to get her stable to the point where I'm not spending so much time monitoring her everyday.

 

My Siamese cat Sug, GA was the same way. She also followed me into the bathroom in the middle of the night and sat by my feet . After she passed I was distraught. The wails that came out of me were almost primal. Bubba took over accompanying me to the bathroom the first few nights after her passing. Then, it typical guy style, I was on my own again!

 

Sounds like Bubba was not a bathroom kitty. One of our other cats use to follow me in the bathroom, he stood when Willow move in and took over.
I had a siamese name Sebastian, he was one of the cools cats I had ever had before Willow. Talk to me and other stuff. He lived to be 19 years old.

I'm noticing that when Willow is in high numbers her fur coat is dry and hard. When her numbers get low they get soft again. I have noticed this a few times with her.
I know when a cat is dehydrated there for very dry very similar to what I'm experiencing

 

Good observation with her coat. It's amazing how the numbers affect they way they look.

My Sug, a Bluepoint, was also the coolest cat. She lived to be 17 1/4 despite health issues. She was feisty and had so much personality. She ruled the roost and after she was gone, I realized how big her presence really was.

 

So sorry for your loss,
When my guy went I was so sad. There were a few times I thought is this cat going to live forever or what?
I had friends whom should ask is that the same came you have had forever? Yep him and his sister are going to live for ever. After he died Chloe only lived for another year. She was so sad he was gone. She lived to 20 1/2 years old. I had them two for so long.
Pets become family, we understand them in ways others can't understand.

 

James, congrats on that AMPS!!!

 

Thanks for reminding me Sandi! James you have earned this!

 

Nice job shooting. I hope Willow gets used to those lower numbers soon and surfs for you.

 

Help

I checked her at her +3 and she is 67bg

 

Hello James,

The forum isn't very active at this time of the day, and I'm not a specialist, but I'll try to help you.
You will need to test Willow every 15 minutes.
Do you have honey or syrup? You need to massage immediately her gums with honey.

 

She is 48bg

 

I just gave her karos syrup she did not like it

 

The honey on the gums will elevate nearly immediately her BG.
Does she eat by herself? If so, you should also give her high carb food.

 

48 on an Alphatrak is much too low. You need to intervene now by giving her something with high carbs. Do you have any high carb gravy, karo syrup, or anything similar? We need to get that into her pronto. And we need to be testing every 15minutes. She's dropping too fast.

 

Can you massage her gums with honey?

 

She is on Relion micro

 

I have AD prescription
Or I have MD dry food

 

I used a syringe and injected it into her mouth

 

Do you have any "Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers" food James?

That's what we usually use....just pop the top off and squeeze the gravy into a bowl and give her a couple teaspoons of just the gravy part

 

I gave Carol syrup with the syringe

no
I dont

 

These foods contains not enough carbs, I think.
You need to use honey or syrup.

 

How much syrup?

 

OK....how much honey did you give her?

Go ahead and give her a teaspoon of her regular food and test again about 20 minutes after she got the honey

 

The honey or syrup needs to go directly in the blood system, that's why you need to massage her gums with it.
If you inject it with a syringe in her mouth, it will not go directly in her blood.
The other way would be to mix water and honey, put this mix in a syringe, and inject it in her anus.

 

I'm given her some of the dry food that will shoot her up quickly

 

How much

 

47 is too low, but as long as we can stop her from dropping any more and get her back above 50, don't panic

50 is our "take action" number

Don't feed the dry food....it takes too long to get into her bloodstream and takes too long to get back out again

 

She's eating like dry food like it's crack cocaine

 

So sorry, I missed the notation on your spreadsheet about the meter change.

Karo syrup is a temporary measure. It will boost her blood sugar in the short term, but it tends to wear off quickly so you have to be vigilant because her numbers might start to dip again. It would be good if you could get a little regular wet food in her too, which can help to raise and stabilize her blood sugar longer term.

How sensitive to carbs is Willow?

 

OK I only gave her a little bit about ad

 

Take it up James and please test again when it's been about 20 minutes from the honey/karo

She's OK....we just don't want her to drop any more

 

The equivalent of a hazelnut on the gums

 

What do you mean regular wet food I only have one type of wet food fancy feast, and AD

 

We are at 51

 

Her regular low carb food....the Fancy Feast....only about a teaspoon...we don't want to fill her up in case we need her to continue to eat later...add a couple of drops of honey/karo to the food

Please take a breath and after feeding the FF, test again in 30 minutes

 

I gave her a little dry food, syrup and some wet food

 

OK...no more food or syrup.....test again in 30 minutes

Breathe James....breathe

 

I'm breathing very hard! Lol
I knew something was up by the way she was acting, she wanted to be petted rough around her ears and was back to being the cat I love.

 

When you have the time (in between tests) please update both your spreadsheet and the subject line so people can easily see how she's doing

 

Good job recognizing the difference in behavior that made you get those spot check tests. Jenks gets real frisky and energetic when he's in the 40s too, so whenever he appears out of nowhere, is looking for food at odd times, or is coming to seek me out when its not feeding time, that's usually a good sign that I need to check his numbers.

I see this is your very first trip to the 40s. Welcome to the club!

Maybe @Chris & China can weigh in on this to confirm, but that probably means Willow earned herself a 0.25U reduction, starting with tomorrow morning's shot.

Also, while we're waiting, I'll refer you to the Hypo Toolbox info post so you can stock up on the necessities for when this happens again in the future. A good thing to have on hand is a gravy-rich food that is high in carbs. That way you can crack a can, and separate the gravy portion to give to your cat. It's great for a good blood sugar boost without unnecessarily filling their tummies which could prevent them from wanting to eat later in the cycle when you really need them to.

 

My wife just ran to get more test strips

 

Absolutely.....Willow earns herself a reduction so tomorrow morning her dose goes down to 3.25 U

Note....in your "hypo toolbox", keep a spare box of at least 50 strips

 

What do you mean Gravy – Rich food?

 

I'll need to read that tool box note

We just bought another 100, we had 10 strips and planed to get more in the morning

 

The Fancy Feast "Gravy Lovers" foods....if your wife is on the way to WalMart, have her pick up a few cans

 

I mean food that has a lot of gravy in it. If you look at it, it's like cutlets or shreds of meat in gravy. Like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers or Friskies Prime Filets or Savory Shreds. If you can get a hold of your wife, perhaps she could pick some up while she's at Walmart?

Just for the sake of examples:
https://www.fancyfeast.com/gourmet-cat-products/wet-cat-food/gravy-lovers

https://www.friskies.com/cat-food/wet-cat-food/prime-filets-chicken-tuna-dinner-in-gravy

 

Wait she said we were giving her before fancy feast beef feast in gravy
She is already back

 

We have the Beef feast in gravy and was giving her that before and I changed her back to the other food because it seemed her numbers went up when she was eating that food

 

It always works out like that!! That's why I keep a spare box of at least 50 "tucked away" somewhere....when my "regular stash" starts to get low, I replace it, but I don't break into my "spare box" unless I need to....that way they're always there

 

33bg

 

The "Gravy Lovers" are high carb foods....but if you look at the label, they specifically say "Gravy Lovers"....You should always have at least a few cans set aside in case of these kind of "emergencies"

The Fancy Feast Classics are pate type foods and are low carb

 

I just did syrup with water in a syringe in her anus

 

33bg

 

If she's dropped to 33 now, give her more syrup.....several large drops and test again in 20 minutes

There's nothing more she has to prove tonight....if you have some food with gravy, go ahead and carb her up

If all you have is the dry, go ahead and give her a few more pieces

 

Ok, 33 is definitely too low.

If you have any food with gravy, we need to use it now. Separate the gravy portion, mix into the gravy a good deal of syrup (1/2 teaspoon or more), and make sure she licks up as much of the gravy mixture as possible. Some people my disagree with me, but I say to also give her a little more dry food because it's going to act like an extended release high carb food once it kicks in.

I also need you or your wife to look up the number and location of the nearest 24-hour veterinary hospital. I don't want to cause any alarm, but we don't know how Willow will react to being this low, so if she starts to exhibit any signs of hypoglycemia, I need you to get her to the hospital as soon as possible.

 

Have you tried to rub her gums with syrup?

 

I have tried she fights me
I gave her the syrup enema as someone suggested

 

She is back at 56bg and pissed at me

 

Yes, that's me who suggested to inject syrup with water directly in her rectum.
My vet told me that a moment ago, and that's the most effective way to elevate numbers.
But as the effect is immediate, it doesn't last too long.
She needs to be fed with high carbs also.

 

She'll get over it....what else has she had to eat since the syrup into her rectum?

56 is safe, but you'll want to continue to test in case she drops again....another test in 30 minutes

 

How is she acting now?

 

A 56 is good, but we're not out of the woods just yet. That number may start to go down again as the effects of the syrup wear off. We need another test in 30 minutes.

 

She has some of the gravy food and she does not want to be around me.
I'm sure having a half full syringe with syrup and water injected into her anus was not on her bucket list.
Let alone she does not like the tast and now has to clean her butt full of this stuff.
Just saying she may unfriend me for awhile

 

I'm sure it wasn't! Hopefully the next time she drops too low, you'll be able to get her up with the high carb food and not have to resort to that!! It's pretty extreme (but if it saves their life, who cares?)

I have to take my mom to church in the morning or I'd continue to stay and watch for you. @AZJenks is an experienced member and will watch for you. I've also asked @Gill & George to pop in if they can. (another experienced member)

I'll add @Wendy&Neko to the list too....I saw she's online and I know she lives on the west coast

 

I can be here all night. So you won't be alone.

Just a reminder: It's about time for Willow's next test.

 

Thank you everyone

 

@AZJenks Thanks - I'm falling asleep on the sofa and about to head to bed.

It does get easier James. First time is pretty scary. You might want to print off a copy of the Sticky Note on Shooting and Handling Low Numbers, and include it in your hypo kit. You never know when the power might go off. And congrats on the first reduction!

 

Thank you
Wow that was a little stressful! I started to relive the night she went to 19bg and I had to get her to the ER vet who was 45 minutes away and made it in 22 minutes. That drive was not one I would ever want to try and do again.

 

Thanks
What is the hypo tool kit?

 

@Wendy&Neko , @AZJenks she is 130bg

 

See post #49 above by @AZJenks - it has the link to the post.

 

The hypo toolkit is a bundle of stuff that every cat owner should have at the ready to be able to treat low numbers when they occur. Here's a link that contains information about what to stock:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

 

You can breathe more slowly now. I'd wait another 1/2 hour and test to make sure she's still coming up. No feeding. You want to make sure she's coming up on her own without food. Ideally test a couple hours after the last high carbs were given. Carbs can wear off and the numbers come back down again, so you want to make sure she's still high enough once the high carb has worm off.

 

Hi there, just been reading all about the action tonight!
I'll check in on you again in 30 min to make sure willow is coming up, as Wendy explained, we want to make sure that she is staying up of her own accord.

 

Thanks Gill! And James, you can take the 911 down now, she's in safe numbers for now.

 

Ok, a 130 is nice and safe for the time being. We'll need to get another test in about 30 minutes. It's important that you're not feeding her at this time because we need to look for numbers that are either stable or rising without being influenced by food, syrup, or other sources of carbohydrates.

At this point, one of three things will happen:

1. The syrup is going to start to wear off, and her numbers will start to decline. If that happens, we may have to repeat this all over again.
2. She'll remain stable for the remainder of the night.
3. Or, her blood sugar will shoot through the roof. Also affectionately known as a bounce.

 

Hi
I'll be checking her at 12 pm
Not sure if you read the one post I gave her a half full syringe with water and syrup, in her rectum
Breathing a little better,

@Wendy&Neko

 

I have to log off before I fall asleep on my keyboard. Paws crossed she's up at the next test, but not too much.

 

Thank you for being there. Have a good night

 

No, I read it. Regardless of the route of administration, karo syrup remains a short-acting carbohydrate boost. So we need to be prepared for the possibility that it may wear off.

Also -- and please understand this is just informational and by no means a critique -- rectal administration of syrup is typically a technique reserved for treating cats who are unresponsive and suffering from severe symptoms of hypoglycemia. In the future, we can begin addressing readings under 50 with things that are a lot less stressful for you and a lot better for the kitty's dignity

When you have time, the general tips & techniques for dealing with low numbers can be found in the Handling Low Numbers sticky post

 

Sorry to have given this advise

 

I'll read up on it

She is 235 bg

 

If it worked that is all that matters.
I appreciate you taking the time to even help. I tried rubbing the gums and she was not having it, tried syringe with syrup she fought it, your ideal worked.

 

Yes, your right, in that sort of event, only the result matters.
I have already met hypo events, but my cat let me rub his gums, so I didn't have to take the other "route".

Anyway, good job!

Congrats

 

I have been reading the sticky notes, what popped out was the gravy has 15% carbs. Houston we have a problem, we had been feeding her this type of food until I just changed it because I felt it was affecting her numbers.


Question
Thoughts on tonight, should I get up every 30 minutes or one hour to check her

 

With her blood at 235, she doesn't need a check for another hour. Ideally, what we look for are two consecutive readings that are either stable or rising without being influenced by food or other carbs.

Unfortunately, with this being her first time at these numbers, we just don't know how she's going to react. So I'm hesitant to say that she's definitively safe for the rest of the night, especially with her ability to have such big drops.

No matter what, please remember that she earned a reduction tonight. So reduce her dose tomorrow morning by 0.25U.

 

Okay
So I'll check her at 1 and take a cat nap

 

So, if I understand well, you were feeding her with high carb food until recently.
You need to be really cautious with the transition to low carb food.
Just to give you an example: my cat used to receive 4 IU twice daily, and never reached green numbers.
Now that he eats only low carb food, I have reduced the dose to 1.25 twice daily, and he surfs in blue and green numbers.

I don't have the experience to give any advise about dosing, but just want to warn you to be cautious with the transition of food.

 

Regarding the high carb gravy food:

It's not meant to be part of her normal diet. It's simply a tool to boost blood sugar when its gets a little too low, like what happened earlier tonight.

When she dipped into the 40s, for instance, that would've been a time we would've recommended feeding her a tablespoon or so of high carb gravy, perhaps mixed with a little syrup.

The reason gravy works well is because it boost blood sugar without filling the cat's stomach. This is important because sometimes it takes several cycles of feeding gravy and testing before we can get a cat's blood sugar into the safe range. If we were to use food to do that instead of gravy, that risks the cat getting full and refusing further food or worse, vomiting -- both of which can cause problems in situations where the numbers are either still too low or dropping.

 

I'll check in at 1, just in case there are any issues.

 

386bg
Thank you for helping

Going to sleep