4/27 Floyd 372, shoot full dose? | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

4/27 Floyd 372, shoot full dose?

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Janine & Floyd (GA)

Janine & Floyd (GA)

Member since 2018
Floyd rallied a bit last night; no vomiting and ate about 90% of his food.

Overnight, no vomiting, but very lethargic this morning. He's nauseous and refusing to eat anything including treats. Watery diarrhea. :arghh:

I'm not shooting right now. I'll take him into work and give him his Cerenia dose and some mirtazapine.

Any and all advice appreciated.
 
Oh poor Floyd! Is the diarrhea foul smelling like when there in pancreatitis? Has Floyd ever been DKA? That would be a concern with skipping a shot. I hope the Cerenia and mirt helps. I have had really good success with Florastor probiotic when there is diarrhea issues. You can get it at CVS, cheaper on line but you need it now.

Here is yesterday's post so peeps can follow along:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-26-floyd-amps-hi-2-5-543-5-hi-pmps-520.194705/


ETA: Hopefully you'll get him eating in a bit and can shoot late if your schedule can accommodate being off.
 
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Bobbie And Bubba said:
Oh poor Floyd! Is the diarrhea foul smelling like when there in pancreatitis? Has Floyd ever been DKA? That would be a concern with skipping a shot. I hope the Cerenia and mirt helps. I have had really good success with Florastor probiotic when there is diarrhea issues. You can get it at CVS, cheaper on line but you need it now.

Here is yesterday's post so peeps can follow along:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-26-floyd-amps-hi-2-5-543-5-hi-pmps-520.194705/


ETA: Hopefully you'll get him eating in a bit and can shoot late if your schedule can accommodate being off.
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It sure stinks, so I'm presuming it is pancreatitis. GI lymphoma is on my list of possibilities as well. He's never been DKA, but I'll be checking him today.

I can shoot late, so as soon as he eats and I get a good number, I will.

DH will pick up the Florastor for me.
 
I’m so sorry Floyd isn’t feeling well. Make sure you give the appetite stimulant after the Cerenia has had a chance to kick in so he isn’t ravenously hungry but nauseated at the same time. He may not even need the mirtz if nausea is the real issue. Maybe keep a bottle of the Cerenia and some 1cc syringes at home in the fridge? The injectable is more useful when they don’t feel well as it doesn’t have to be given orally and and works rather quickly. It should last a long time in the fridge and keeping it cold helps with the sting. I would just give it daily for now until you figure out what is going on and are over the hump.

s boulardii Is the type of probiotic that is great and recommended for diarrhea, I haven’t used it myself because we haven’t had that problem. SEB can also be given in a certain way to help with diarrhea. Of course both assume you can get him to eat these things.

I would shoot something when his numbers are up a bit, even if it’s a half dose, they still need insulin for things other than eating. Definitely check for ketones, you should regularly check him at least until his numbers are lower and more stable, but with any illness occurring, you want to rule that out for sure.

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Are you giving fluids? Gizmo never has diarrhea with pancreatitis but ECID.

What about pain meds? I am never sure if Gizmo is in pain (or how much) but give as a precaution but am conservative with the pain meds because they seem to kill appetite. I usually give after his PS food so that I know he got some food into him. Gizmo seems to be more nauseated than in pain with his pancreatitis.

I give Cerenia every day at the suspected onset of panc. I give it for a minimum of 5 days and then I give every other day, then twice a week (etc). I give Ondan AM/PM for 5-7 days and then discontinue. I also give Canna Companion (as needed), usually 2x/day for a day or two and play it by ear.

As a preventative I give marshmallow root with his AM/PM food when I am not giving meds. It is similar to SEB but Gizmo seems to like it better. I prepare the MMR into a slurry and mix with his PS food. MMR and SEB shouldn't be given +2/-2 hours from meds because it can inhibit the absorption of them.

Hope you can get Floyd to eat and get some answers.:bighug:
 
For the Florastor, give 1/2 capsule mixed in food twice a day ( my guys don't detect it in the food) . After diarrhea stops, give 3 more days, then go to a maintenance dose of 1/4 capsule twice a day for about a week.
 
Update; Floyd is not doing well. He has not eaten much since I last posted and right now is refusing everything. He's very weak and for some reason not urinating. I can express his bladder, but it gets very big and painful. Still having bloody, foul-smelling watery diarrhea. He has an IV going as well.

Thanks for the vines, everyone.
 
vibes.gif tons of healing vines coming your way.
 
I’m so sorry Janine. I’m glad you have all the resources at hand to help Floyd feel better. I hope he perks up with the fluids and you get to the bottom of it soon.

Feel better Floyd, healing vines to you! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Update: He ate a few kibbles of c/d (getting desperate here!!) but that's all. He's interested in food, but turns away after a few bites (if that) of anything.

I think the urine issue may be solved. I gave him an injection of butorphanol for pain this morning because that's all I had and I think it sedated him so much, he couldn't posture properly in the box. Plus, it's a small box in the cage he's in. The sedation seems to have worn off, now he's back to lethargic vs obtunded/ataxic, and just urinated on his own.

Picking up up ondansetron on my way home, plus some novel foods to try and DH picked up oral bupe. So, paws crossed we'll be in better shape after that.

Thanks again for the vines - keep 'em coming!!
 
Question: How do I adjust his SS for the late shot? I'm filling it in still based on 7 am and 7 pm shot times. Do I keep it the same as I plan to work back to that time?

Also - he just ate some more!
 
When my Harvey had p-titis, we gave him both Cerenia and Ondansetron at the same time, followed by Cyproheptadine. That combo worked best for us. Of course, ECID.

For diarrhea, the S. Boulardii worked great for my kittens. I put it into smaller capsules, rather than on food (Size #5). Marje told me the dose for diarrhea is 1/8 capsule every three hours until it stops, then go to a maintenance dose of 1/4 capsule a day.

Sending lots of healing vines and prayers.

 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
The maintenance dose of 1/4 is what Marje gives Tobey - he weights over 11 lbs. The kittens were already at 9 lbs, and that's a common size for adult cats. She knew that when she gave me the dosage, but I'll double check with her.
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Okay, please do as I have been dosing for diarrhea as I said above and have been telling others on the board the same thing and want to be doing it correctly and giving correct advice.
 
Floyd is eating better this evening. Some chicken baby food, Sheba pate, c/d. He's up to 372.

I'll be ready to shoot soon. Should shoot a full dose or half again? I cannot stay up all night with him. I'm still sick myself and exhausted.
 
Sorry I missed the drama today. :bighug: You should be OK with a half dose. Probably even full dose as I bet he'll be on the rise to a sharp bounce. I would retest again, it's been 45 minutes since that 372.
 
I'm glad Floyd is eating better. Ondansetron did a better job for Neko, sometimes the combo with Cerenia was the ticket.

Not to cause any more worry, but how is Floyd's heart? That was my experience when Neko went off her food. It was a bit of guess which condition caused the appy loss.

Be good tonight Floyd.
 
Many, many vines for Floyd.

I also used the ondansetron/cerenia combo with a lot of success. You can also dose the ondansetron tid if he needs it.

Have you ever run a GI Panel through TAMU? If he has low B12 or EPI, the S. bouldardi won’t touch the diarrhea.

Looks like he is concentrating his urine “ok” although I don’t know when you took the sample in relation to giving fluids. His HCT is trending towards anemia although it is consistent from two months ago. I also see he’s had a few episodes of very mildly elevated ALT. The P is really high.....do you normally feed a food with a high bone content? You would know better than I how to address that if it’s not due to CKD but I haven’t seen P binders given to a non CKD kitty...but, again, I don’t know. Of course, it’s “possible” he’s Stage 1 CKD. That’s why I like the SDMA... one more piece of the puzzle esp with really early CKD. Once he starts eating, cooked egg whites can probably help with the P.

The therapeutic dose for an adult for S. boulardi is 1/2 cap bid as Bobbie said; however, for liquid diarrhea, you might want to try emergency stop especially if you know his B12 levels are normal. If you don’t know and don’t think you’ll test for it, what do you think about giving him B12 shots just in case his serum B12 level is low?

Here are the emergency stop instructions from IBDKitties.net:
EMERGENCY “STOP DIARRHEA” DOSING INSTRUCTIONS

Jarrow Brand S. Boulardii is the most commonly locally available S. Boulardii supplement (in the U.S.). It is usually sold as S. Boulardii + MOS. “MOS” are mannan-oligosaccharides, a medium that promotes utilization of the probiotic in the intestines. It seems the MOS makes the product bitter, as most kitties will eat “plain” S. boulardii (Nutricology, A.O.R. and Renew Life brands listed here) when sprinkled on or mixed into foods – but not the S. Boulardii with MOS. This is not to say this product cannot be used, it can, but it usually needs to be syringed or pilled into the cat. If you can find an S. boulardii supplement at 5 billion CFU without MOS (there are plenty of other brand options, at least online), you may find it easier to use if your cat is not inappetent. Jarrow does have a product available in premeasured packets rather than capsules. If available, these packets will make it a little easier to use for emergency treatment if you have or can purchase small (size 3) empty capsules. Some cats eat the Jarrow S boulardii mixed into a bit of Beechnut baby food and fed as a “treat.”

For emergency “stop diarrhea” use, it is recommended to purchase size 3 empty capsules. Fill 10 or so of these, and administer them to your cat every 2 hours. This often stops diarrhea within 24 – 48 hours, other than when diarrhea is caused by another disease that requires treatment (low B12, exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, hyperthyroidism, as examples). This “loading dose” can be continued for three to four days if necessary. It is NOT necessary to use this approach, it can be given at “therapeutic” doses twice a day (and doubled if you see improvement in stool but diarrhea or soft cow patty stools have not resolved).

NOTE: IF USE OF S BOULARDII MAKES DIARRHEA WORSE, STOP. Give kitty a break for 3 days, and start over at a MUCH smaller amount, and very slowly work up to the therapeutic dose. If even the small amount makes diarrhea worse, your cat is likely sensitive to yeasts and this cannot be given.
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Good idea to keep a close eye on ketones. As long as he’s not eating his normal calories, I would suggest checking ketones twice a day, if possible.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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