4/4 Asia AMPS +3 107, +4 42!, +5 68, PMPS 431

Status
Not open for further replies.
Stacy & Asia

Stacy & Asia

Member Since 2017
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-3-asia-3-145-5-29-5-5-59-6-79-pmps-348.193585/

Bounce from the 29 did not go as high as I expected, maybe it will be a wobble bobble extended duration bounce instead? I hope it’s just over with.

Asia has been having some formed but sticky/more mucousy stools. I’m finally trying SEB which was suggested by many people for her fasting puke issue and I understand it helps with things for the other end as well. Since we don’t have antibiotics on the menu anymore, it’s easier to incorporate now. I give her cerenia every 3-4 days now instead of daily to every other day. She does fine without it most times, but then she will have a foam/water vomit and it stops that entirely. If the SEB does the job, maybe I can save cerenia for when it’s really needed.

So since I should give SEB twice a day and it needs to be 2 hours from other meds, questions:

Does this include mucosally absorbed buprenex? I would think not, but asking.

Do p binders interfere with SEB, should I skip p binders in the 2 SEB meals?

Give canna pills separate from this, yes?

Had a hard time making the gruel, it started to gel before the powder properly blended and despite using a mini hand mixer, there are still more concentrated glops in the mix. I followed the directions to heat up the water and add SEB and mix. Any tips here?

Anyone with SEB experience please answer but tagging 2 people I know who have used it off the top of my head. @Bobbie And Bubba @LizzieInTexas

ETA: I think her poo issues have more to do with the times I need to give her gravy (as a conduit for Karo). I want to make my own gravy or figure out another vehicle for Karo that she will eat it. Anyone ever made their own gravy? How do you thicken it if you want to stay away from flour? Anyone use arrowroot? Gelatin could work, but then it would be high in phosphorous. There needs to be a safe but tasty cat gravy recipe. Most of the ones I find use flour.
 
Congratulations on the reducie Asia but there are other ways of earning it besides messing with the sharks!:eek:

I know nothing about SEB! I hope it helps Asia.
 
Hey Stacy, it is my understanding that the SEB is to be giving within 2 hours of other meds that would also be ingested so the mucosally absorbed bup, I would think wouldn't matter the timing but I am not positive about that.

I am using SEB and George's Aloe Vera Juice ( AVJ) together as the two together are supposed to be even more healing for the GI tract and help with any nausea.

Here's what I do daily , twice a day. I mix 1/4 of a tsp of SEB with a 1/2 of tsp of AVJ in a tiny bowl, ( the liquid should be twice as much) and it makes a paste. Then I heat up a few tbsp. of water in the microwave until it gets hot. ( maybe 30 seconds) and then I start thinning out the SEB paste with 1/2 tbsp. of water at time. Usually I can get about 1 tbsp. of water into the paste and have it look like a thick gravy but still look viscous. And then I mix in raw food.

Both of my guys clean their plates of all the gravy both times they get the SEB gravy meal.


Homemade Gravy: Good question. I think someone else asked that a while back and I don't remember if anyone was to come up with something. If you used corn powder you'd be back to the Karo issue. My SIL is Gluten Free and I just texted her to give me the name of the non gluten flour she uses to bake and or to thicken up gravy and stews. As soon as she responds, I will let you know. I think it Xanthan Gum Flour. But, I'll let you know.

Congrats on another reduction!
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey Stacy, it is my understanding that the SEB is to be giving within 2 hours of other meds that would also be ingested so the mucosally absorbed bup, I would think wouldn't matter the timing but I am not positive about that.

I am using SEB and George's Aloe Vera Juice ( AVJ) together as the two together are supposed to be even more healing for the GI tract and help with any nausea.

Here's what I do daily , twice a day. I mix 1/4 of a tsp of SEB with a 1/2 of tsp of AVJ in a tiny bowl, ( the liquid should be twice as much) and it makes a paste. Then I heat up a few tbsp. of water in the microwave until it gets hot. ( maybe 30 seconds) and then I start thinning out the SEB paste with 1/2 tbsp. of water at time. Usually I can get about 1 tbsp. of water into the paste and have it look like a thick gravy but still look viscous. And then I mix in raw food.

Both of my guys clean their plates of all the gravy both times they get the SEB gravy meal.


Homemade Gravy: Good question. I think someone else asked that a while back and I don't remember if anyone was to come up with something. If you used corn powder you'd be back to the Karo issue. My SIL is Gluten Free and I just texted her to give me the name of the non gluten flour she uses to bake and or to thicken up gravy and stews. As soon as she responds, I will let you know. I think it Xanthan Gum Flour. But, I'll let you know.

Congrats on another reduction!
Click to expand...

The SEB I got said 1 tsp twice a day, is this too much? I might add the AVJ at some later point, but I like to space out all these new additions a good amount so I know what is doing what and who the likely culprit is if something tips the apple cart.

It smelled pretty gross, I was surprised she ate it, but I mixed it in her radcat and down it went. Maybe I can add some meat broth/flavoring to the SEB and use that for gravy! :joyful:

Thanks for asking for me. I considered arrowroot powder, it doesn't have much of a taste and it thickens to a goop not unlike the SEB, as do chia seeds. My hesitation with trying those or anything else is that I do not know definitively if it is safe for cats. Might try to get a phone consult with Dr. Lisa and see if she knows. I guess the gravy doesn't have to be thick, it just needs to be tasty enough that Asia will eat it with the Karo mixed in and it's special and yummy enough that she won't likely refuse it. Worse comes to worse, I can always syringe Karo or whatever, but I'd like to be kind and not do that if possible. The canned food gravies are so smelly I think you could hide just about anything in them. :smuggrin: I don't know how to make something that pungent without using tuna or something like that. How do the cat food people do it (we probably don't want to know)? o_O
 
If you use broth, make sure no onions are in the broth.

If you want to use SEB everyday like I do, it's my understanding that you don't go over 1/4 tsp twice a day.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
If you use broth, make sure no onions are in the broth.

If you want to use SEB everyday like I do, it's my understanding that you don't go over 1/4 tsp twice a day.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know about those toxic onions, I would make the broth myself with just meat and no bones due to phosphorous levels. I guess the ratio is different to what you use, mine is a tablespoon of SEB in 6 oz of water, so a teaspoon of that likely contains less than 1/4 tsp of the actual SEB.

IMG_2829.JPG
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Yes, I know about those toxic onions, I would make the broth myself with just meat and no bones due to phosphorous levels. I guess the ratio is different to what you use, mine is a tablespoon of SEB in 6 oz of water, so a teaspoon of that likely contains less than 1/4 tsp of the actual SEB.

View attachment 35159
Click to expand...
Yours is mixing up a batch to keep in the refrigerator and then discard what's left over in 5 days. I am mixing each time I use it. I might switch to your directions and make it easier on myself. ;)
 
Hi I use SEB with one of my cyvies that has some problems with stomach acid and occasionally with Babu to help him with the fur balls ( especially in this time of the year and beginning of winter when he changes coat) and I use a recipe I found ant Tanya's web site (http://www.felinecrf.org/holistic_treatments.htm) that allows me to have some pre prepared at the fridge and I just syringe them a little bit (about 1.5 ml each time that would be around 1/4 tsp ) , I found it's easier than trying to mix it with food they are very finicky eaters this is the recipe:

Stovetop Method
  • Take a stainless steel or heat-proof glass pan (not an aluminium or non-stick one).
  • Put one cup of cold water in the pan.
  • Sprinkle 1 to 1.5 tsp of slippery elm bark powder on to the water.
  • Let it sit until the powder is damp (this should not take too long), then bring to the boil stirring constantly.
  • Reduce the heat and simmer, still stirring constantly, until it thickens, about 3 minutes or so. It will be the consistency of watery egg whites.
  • Allow to cool and give ¼ - ½ (0.25 to 0.5) teaspoon up to 4 times a day.
  • This will keep at room temperature for a day or in the fridge for up to five days.
Microwave Method
  • Take a glass container which holds two cups.
  • Put one cup of water in the cup.
  • Add 1 to 1.5 tsp of slippery elm bark powder.
  • Heat in the microwave on high for about 1.5 minutes.
  • Remove from the microwave and stir, then put it back in for about another 30 seconds.
  • Keep an eye on it because you do not want it to boil over.
  • Remove from the microwave and stir again.
  • Allow to cool and give ¼ - ½ (0.25 to 0.5) teaspoon up to 4 times a day.
  • This will keep at room temperature for a day or in the fridge for up to five days.
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
Let it sit until the powder is damp (this should not take too long), then bring to the boil stirring constantly
Click to expand...

Thank you! :) My directions say not to boil. I wonder if boiling can change the properties any? Does it seem to work anyway? I guess that would settle it.

Did it help your civvie for stomach acid? I need it mostly for that. Asia's too old to clean herself enough to cause hairball problems. :rolleyes: Has it helped any poop issues that come up would you say?

I'm glad she eats it, so far. I don't think I could give her little bits over time because she has other meds I need to give her and keep away from the SEB.
 
My SIL got back to me and it is Xanthan Gum she uses for thickening. I don't know how many carbs or if safe for cats so a little research might tell you that info.
 
+5 42, I gave her an extra meal for the big drop at +4, which she ate. I guess my SS is telling me, big drop or no, give Karo at +4. :banghead:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Thank you! :) My directions say not to boil. I wonder if boiling can change the properties any? Does it seem to work anyway? I guess that would settle it.

Did it help your civvie for stomach acid? I need it mostly for that. Asia's too old to clean herself enough to cause hairball problems. :rolleyes: Has it helped any poop issues that come up would you say?

I'm glad she eats it, so far. I don't think I could give her little bits over time because she has other meds I need to give her and keep away from the SEB.
Click to expand...

I do watch over it so that it doesn't boil(I think the stirring constantly does the trick ) when I prepare it, but it does get very warm, so far It has been working really well, when I started giving it to her I noticed she started eating a few hours after I gave it to her and the acid vomiting ( and fur ball vomiting ) stopped I started giving it to her twice a day now I give it to her only three times a week .

With Babu I've only given it to him at certain times of the year when he starts changing coat, it has helped him with the fur ball problem ( big problem in my case since he is more hair than cat) and it included some mild constipation issues so I guess it does help with the poop issues

Giving it to them with the syringe has helped me control the timing and keep it separated from everything else
 
I would avoid Xanthum gum if you have any hint of IBD in the picture. I used the gravy from some of the Weruva products. The Grandma's Chicken Soup (21%) and some of the Cats in the Kitchen pouches (16%). Their gravy/carbs comes from potatoes. Neko also didn't handle wheat well. If you want to go the non gluten route, there are lots of alternative flours out there - DH makes a wheat flour substitute with rice flour and tapioca flour, but there are also pea flour and many others.

I gave Neko some SEB made with home made chicken broth (plain water used to boil chicken). She liked the taste for a while.

Nice depot action today. With that 29 yesterday, not susprising. Up Asia!
 
Just realized I entered numbers an hour forward on my SS. So glad I keep a handwritten log, it's saved me more times than I can count.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I would avoid Xanthum gum if you have any hint of IBD in the picture. I used the gravy from some of the Weruva products. The Grandma's Chicken Soup (21%) and some of the Cats in the Kitchen pouches (16%). Their gravy/carbs comes from potatoes.
Click to expand...

Not any more, it seems. :rolleyes:

No to potato, yes pumpkin, peas, tapioca starch and xanthan gum. If I just make my own, I won't need to worry about what is or isn't in it, it only needs to taste good. ;)

If I figure out something good, maybe we can put a recipe in a sticky somewhere, I can't possibly be the first person to want to do this?! o_O It's so wasteful to take gravy from those foods and throw the rest away. Especially considering something died for that to be food in the first place, it should go to nourishment and not in the garbage. :(
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I found Neko could take a big dive at Lev onset. But only sometimes. :banghead: So I didn't do anything different.
Click to expand...

It's almost like as soon as the insulin is available, she uses most of it up right away when she doesn't need to and then runs out and no duration. I wish I understood all the biology and processes by which these insulins metabolize. Lantus can have extremely rapid onset and be unpredictable if you accidentally hit a vein or muscle instead of fat (although I don't think that was why Asia had early onset with it). Lev doesn't work that way at all and there's a more stable system by which the insulin is made available.

I don't want to do anything different there, it will kill as many cycles as it helps. :facepalm:
 
Hate it when manufacturers change recipes. :mad: Neko got to eat the meat along with the gravy. In her day, there was no food waste. :p

You can buy flour alternative products that have various mixes, but we go through enough that DH just makes his own. Red Mill sells small packages of the above flours. Or if you have a gluten free friend, maybe they'll let you try some.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hate it when manufacturers change recipes. :mad: Neko got to eat the meat along with the gravy. In her day, there was no food waste. :p

You can buy flour alternative products that have various mixes, but we go through enough that DH just makes his own. Red Mill sells small packages of the above flours. Or if you have a gluten free friend, maybe they'll let you try some.
Click to expand...

Asia won't eat the meat in those and it's probably not such a bad thing, so it is very wasteful over here, I'm afraid. I also thought the idea with just the gravy was to get the numbers up quickly, if it's with the protein, it slows the absorption of the carbs. I usually give Asia sugar, wait a little bit (10 minutes or so) and then give real food to sustain her so she doesn't sugar crash.

I know about all those flours, I just don't know which have thickening properties and are safe for cats. Maybe I can make a broth reduction and it will be concentrated enough to be slightly thick and extra yummy. Will it reduce and thicken without bone, is the question.
 
How come the bounce from a 29 is lower than this bounce from a 42! :arghh:

PMPS 431, I did not reduce the dose per the 42 today, as it was too close to the last reduction.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top