4/5 Willow PMP 335bg 145bg @+3

Hello

See tread from yesterday http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/4-4-willow-pmp-476bg.155679/#post-1644497

Question! Do I still give her 2.5 insulin with her number dropping so low?
Yesterday AMP was 735bg this is a huge drop over 24 hours

Checked no keytones

 

Also note her hungry has decreased a lot, she did not eat a lot this morning

 

The short answer is yes shoot the full dose. So good to see her out of the black, let's try and keep her away from it.

 

Does she seem like she feels unwell, or does she feel OK? Great that there is no ketones.

I do agree with Serynn...this is much better for her than those blacks were. With any luck this means you've found a "breakthrough" dose that will keep her in healthier numbers. Are you able to keep close tabs on her today since this will be your lowest preshot? I would start with a +1 and +2 to see how she's responding.

 

I agree with Serynn and Amy. The only way to get her into normal numbers is to shoot every 12 hours. Of course you need to be able to monitor. It would be great if you could find a go to food that she will eat unless she is really sick. It takes some trial and error to get there. For Max it turned out to be Soulistic Triple Harmony and berbers baby food. Now he loves a freeze dried food which is his special treat after fluids. It's too high in phosphorus or I'd switch to it as it's no carb. Keep posting results.

 

Hi
I gave her the 2.5 a little late,
She did wake us up at 6:00 am with a little vomit, not like the other morning. I could hear her stomach gurgling this morning. We changed her night wet food to see it this helps. She has stopped drinking huge amounts of water as of yesterday. I'm adding water to her wet food.
I will be able to check her this morning at +1 +2. Then I need to go to work

 

The reduction and fluid intake could possibly be that the insulin is starting to help her heal, too. But, it is always a good idea to add food to her water...even healthy kitties just don't drink enough!

 

By the way great party video

 

Thanks! Trix's party was extra long because she was a unique case of being on insulin for 3 years when she went OTJ.

 

We did remove all dry food as of three days ago as you advised, our two other cats did protest. They don't seem to eat a lot of wet food, they would eat all day dry food and both of them seem fat to me.

Willow is eating right now, I know this is a good thing!
Yesterday I had cut her meals to 1/4 -1/2 amount of wet with water to help fight that hunger. For her weight it said two cans of wet food and she has been eating 4 a day.
Hope this works today

 

Remember, though, that you don't want to cut calories too quickly - especially with unregulated diabetes and a near-miss with hepatic lipidosis.

 

Hi

I understand,
I have a lot of wet food out for her now incase she gets hungry, both upstairs and downstairs has food for her.
She is in my lap, same place every morning since we got her.

 

Hi,

Her +1 300bg she ate a lot of food when I gave her her shot.
So far so good

 

Congrats on the lower number!

 

Thank you!
As you can see on her spreadsheet it has been a battle!

 

I understand your battle, believe me! And it's a battle that we both plan to win, right?

 

Nice number for Willow!

 

Yes!
If you read my story about Willow and the hell we went through you will know I'm a fighter, I never yeld , take a knee when I feel I'm in the right.
This is a battle that we will win together !

 

Hi
Came home and checked her she is 150bg at +3

 

That is still in a safe number range and overall Willow hasn't dropped drastically since her preshot. With the AT2 meter you want to keep them above 68. You could give her a Tbsp of regular food and then retest in another 2 hours if possible. It is still hard to judge when Willow has her nadir.

 

I agree - that is a very nice number. Yes, it's a drop, too, and that can be scary, but it is a safe number. As Mary Ann said, a little regular (low carb) food and test again in a couple hours. Hopefully she'll start surfing!

 

Hi

Okay, just came home to check her +4
She is sleeping
Has food out, do I need to force feed.

 

Unless her number has dropped a lot from the +3 test do not force feed her. Some kitties will develop an aversion to foods that are force feed. She should be eating according to her normal pattern and as long as she is consuming her normal amounts then just continue with her normal feeding pattern. If you have concerns about the +4 test please post again.

 

What's her +4 BG? I'm guessing the need for force feeding will be highly unlikely, but let's see where she's at.

 

I'll post

ill post it in 15 minutes

 

Hi she is 160bg at +4

 

Looking good. If you have to go back to work you could leave out a bit of regular low carb food.

 

Perfect!! Surf it, Willow!!

 

Hi
Yes we have two bowls with wet food out for her. One upstairs and one downstairs.
I'll go back home and check her at +6

Sorry for being that guy freaking out!

 

Wow, look at her today. Very colorful. I bet she feels better too. Keep it up Willow.

 

T

Thanks!

 

Numbers are looking good!

 

We have all been exactly where you are right now. We'd rather see someone freaking out than being complacent, that's for sure! It does get easier, and you do get more comfortable. Just remember that since you home-test, you have a lot of power and control over things.

 

Hi
Thanks,
Just checked her +6 163bg

 

Nice day for Willow today! Glad to see her in much better numbers. Keep it up Willow!

 

What a nice run of numbers for Willow!!! Hope she continues.

 

Thanks everyone!
Could not have got here without the support from everyone on here!
It has been hard to work today because I have been worried about running home, to check on her.

Question!
If I decide to do the SLGS I was reading on what to do with her PMP shot i know I will be asking questions to stuff in the sticky, sorry in advance!

 

What a wonderful looking day for Willow!

 

Really good day for Willow!! Prayers that it continues tonight!!

 

Thank you.

Finally some good news!

 

Willow had some good numbers this morning, but don't be too concerned if she reads higher this evening. There is a good chance that she might bounce up higher after the blues today...although every cat is different. Good luck with your PMPS reading!

 

I know that everyone is really pulling for you and Willow!

 

What a great day for Willow!!! These are much prettier numbers!!!

If she's above 150 at PMPS, you'd want to shoot the 2.5 as long as you have plenty of supplies and can test as often as you need to tonight.

Getting a +1 and a +2 are good ideas the first few times you shoot a lower PS number....looks like this morning she had a bit of a food spike at +1.....that's good information to know but since you don't have more data on her, we don't know for sure that she always gets a food spike

 

She ate a lot first thing this morning right after my first test,
I'll be keeping an eye on her tonight!
Thanks again everyone !

 

Hi
She is a 335bg gave full 2.5 units
We only have 10 test strips for the alpha , I had my wife buy a relion micro and there is a major difference between the results
The micro showed 246bg while the alpha was 335bg. Is this a normal amount of difference between the two? 89 points?
I'll check Willow at +2 she had a good amount of food with her shot tonight,

 

Fabulous to see the break-through today! You've made great progress! She spent at least 4 hours in blue numbers today - that's great. I'd suggest you hang onto this dose for a few cycles and see how she does with it. Sometimes shooting lower even one time can lower the entire range the kitty is in, so let's just watch to see what happens.

I know your initial diagnosis, DKA and vet experiences were really challenging, which is an understatement. I think you'd be surprised to know how many others here have had similar experiences. The beginning of this Sugar Dance is often very difficult.

Don't be surprised if she bounces from the blues today. It would be typical and expected - she hasn't been in that range for a while and her body likely now thinks that 400+ is normal. Bounces can last up to 3 days, so if she stays in higher numbers for 3 days, don't worry. She'll come back down again when the bounce resolves.

As long as she's not eating dry food, there isn't any compelling reason for you to use SLGS. Tight Reg is more flexible - you can increase more frequently if you need to.

 

It's normal for a human meter to read less than a pet meter like the AT2. Just make the switch, note it on your spreadsheet so it's obvious we're not looking at human glucometer numbers, and move on. Don't even try to compare or you'll go crazy. It's apples and oranges, and there is no direct comparison formula. I'd encourage you to just use up the AT2 strips, then put that meter away and switch to the new glucometer.

 

I totally agree with Julie....there's just no way to compare the two meters...the only thing you have to remember is that using a human meter (on Tight Regulation), we decrease the dose if they go under 50....On the AT, they are reduced if they drop below 68

We've had lots of people try to compare the two and it just leads to more confusion

I know you've got to be out of town or something later in the month and your wife will be doing most of the testing, but you might talk to her about doing TR. There's a great sticky on "Is Tight Regulation possible with a full time job?" with lots of ideas on how others have been successful with TR despite being gone at work 5 days a week

Having the autofeeder will really help too since if you're concerned about her going too low when someone isn't there, you can always put high carb food in it.

If you look at China's spreadsheet, you'll see an example of how you can put a "line" across your spreadsheet to indicate you're using a human meter ....look for 3/24 for the day she had her dental

 

Thank you!
What is interesting is she played today! she has been more active today then in the past month. She is back to being right next to my side no matter where I'm at in the house. She even begged to be petted and she never does this. She seems like she is feeling a lot better.
Right now she is downing a whole 3oz can of wet food! Her little belly is sticking out.
I went by my vets office today and gave them this form website address. They will give it to others who have pets like us!
The girl at the front desk said everyone their still can't believe Willow is still alive, she said when a cat comes there DKA they are done for.
Checked for keytones! Negative !

 

They've never heard about us....we don't ever give up!!

It'll be even more gratifying when Willow's numbers are a lot better and they see how well she's doing then!!

It's wonderful to hear she's acting so much better....it really can be quite miraculous the difference the right treatment can make

 

Will do!
I have the autofeeder ready. Been adding water to the food, she seems to like this.
I leave on the 15th to the 17th late night, I need to get her on the form and up to speed with everything. I just showed her how to correctly put The insulin in the syringe, I was totally doing it wrong before.
The sticky notes on here have helped so much!

 

I'm surprised - but happy - that she's feeling energized. It's not uncommon for cats to feel yucky when they get back into normal numbers after being in high numbers for a while. Even though the normal range is normal, once they've gotten used to high numbers they often act like someone stole their caffeine when they first get back into normal range. Often after they've spent more time in normal range again, people will report their cat is behaving like they did pre-diagnosis again. That's really great to hear.

If your wife isn't able to test as much as you when you're gone, don't worry. We often have people travel and can help you figure out a "vacation dose" a day or so before you leave. We can look at how she is then and suggest a reduced dose so she's safe from low numbers while you're traveling.

 

What is interesting is there is so much conflicting information regarding this disease in cats on the Internet.
I read all this stuff online about what numbers to give a shot and what numbers not. Completely different then the sticky notes on here. I'll follow everyone on here! They are fighters and live the battle everyday.

 

There is a difference between using a depot insulin and a traditional, non-depot insulin. Most of what you're reading on the internet is likely to be about non-depot insulins. Without seeing it, that would be my guess at least.

The Tight Regulation Protocol is the only dosing protocol for diabetic cats using depot insulins - Lantus and Levemir - that has been published in a professional veterinary journal. For those who want to follow that, we just help interpret and apply the information to the particular cat's situation. This site really does have a wealth of information and experience - not to mention dedicated volunteers who show up every day to help new members learn how to take care of their cats.

 

I was really lucky....the day I took China in because she had lost so much weight and looked next to deaths door, we got the diabetes diagnosis but the vet wanted to get a urine on her too....since I had to come back the next morning to take my drooler in for shots, I just let her stay the night so they could get the urine sample and that night I did some internet searching

Pretty much every link that came up when I searched for "feline diabetes" landed me here, so I spent a good deal of that night reading the information available, and since I had a son that was diabetic, as well as spending a lot of time in the "medical field" over the years, everything I read just made sense...about diet, about "good" insulin versus "bad" insulin, about doing small changes in dose, etc.

I've seen other forums since then and read other protocols but none of them make as much sense to me as the one here does....and the people here are so generous with their time and knowledge!! It's unusual (once an animal has passed) for the caretaker to continue to be as involved as the people here are too, but you'll see the initials (GA) after a lot of names here....those are kitties that have "gone ahead" and the caretakers are still here...paying it forward

We become very much like family here....we suffer the loses of both furkid and human together....we celebrate the victories together. If someone who's posted regularly suddenly stops posting, we worry...together.

This is truly an amazing place

 

That just gave me a tear because because Julie and pumpkin have a GA next to her name. So sorry Julie for your loss, thank you for all of your help. This is a family and friends.


Guess who got another low reading.? +2 241bg
I was on another wedsite catsite.com and posted my story there, I was looking for help and a member there gave me the link to this site. Without that member giving me this site I don't know where Willow would be today. The help and guidance I have received from this group has saved her. I even called a person who runs a nonprofit who helps people who need help in paying their vet bills when they can't afford the cost to save the pet. I told her how wouderful and helpful this site and people are. I then sent her the web address.

 

Beautiful day for Willow

Test her again in a couple of hours to see where she's at, I'll keep an eye out for you. Believe it or not before long you'll be complaining that 241 is too high

 

Yes, punkin passed away almost 3 years ago now. He had acromegaly, which is one of the high dose conditions and is very hard on the body. We did everything we could for him, even driving from Oregon to Colorado to get the acro tumor radiated. Thanks for your kind words. I miss my little buddy, and remember him with love. The bond you get from taking care of a diabetic cat is incredible.

I help people now because others helped me. It's just paying it forward.

 

Nice to see Willow's numbers down! I have to echo everyone else...this is the best site with the most amazing people!

 

I thought the bond between me and Snick was strong before this....it's even stronger now!

 

Hi
She just ate 1/4 can of wet food, it I check her in an hour won't her numbers go up?
I'm really happy with her numbers today! Been a little stressful because I have been worried all day about her going to low and no one here.

 

This is always the best thing to read! Its always great to see those numbers down, but when you see them feeling betting and acting like their old selves, its just amazing.

Our Smokey has been gone for 3 years (I can't bring myself to put that GA on my avatar), but I just keep collecting sugar cat fosters to bring to the forum The support here is amazing and the protocol works.

 

You are a really good person! Thank you for helping me and others. Punkin was lucky to have such a good person there for him. I feel we are caretakers for our pets, they will only be here a short time and it's our job to take care of them, we are lucky to be able to enjoy this short time with them and their unconditional love they give us.


I have always had a connection with all of my pets, khalisee and Magic willows house buddies had shunded me for awhile because of Willow. In the past few weeks both of them have warmed up to me again. They are brother and sister and can be a handful. Neither will come when I call them, they only come to me when they want something. Willow on the other hand is like a dog, she is by my side the moment I'm home. If I get up and leave the room she is right there.
I take a shower? She sets outside the door until I'm finished. The interesting things is she sleeps on my wife at night yet if I leave the room she is right behind me.

 

With Lantus, it's helpful to compare the +2 to the preshot. That's because typically, Lantus onsets about 2 hours after the shot, meaning its action to lower blood sugar begins about +2. If the +2 is significantly lower than the preshot, that tells you the action has already begun, so you are likely to need to pay more attention and test more that cycle.

So like last night, when you see a large drop at the +2, I would get another test in an hour or so to see what she has planned.

 

Generally yes but if a kitty is going to come down fast their regular LC food won't always stop them or slow them too much - I'm not saying that's what Willow's going to do tonight but it's something to bear in mind for the future.

What sized can are we talking and how many hours until you'd normally be heading for bed?

 

Not necessarily....it depends on a myriad of things....how close she is to nadir, how effective the dose is, how much is in the depot, etc...etc....that's why we call it the sugardance...the steps are always moving and changing!....then you add in the fact that she's a cat and cats like to be unpredictable!!

 

I was the lucky one - he was a blessing.

After you've been here a while you'll realize how many people whose kitties are gone are still here helping out. Sienne & Gabby, Marje and Gracie, Dyana and JD, Melanie and Smokey, Rhiannon and Shadow, hmmm, there are more but i'm drawing a blank. Not everyone gets the GA into their signature - it's actually kind of difficult to do after having it be "julie & punkin" for a long time.

 

I know he's feeding Fancy Feast, so if he gave her 1/4 of a 3oz can, that's all she had

I'm happy to see you join the conversation @Vyktors Mum! It's time for me to take my cold to bed...although with China at 64 @+6, I expect I'll get a nap and then get a +8 or +9 just to make sure

 

Sorry to hear about smoky.
You foster sick cats?

 

Night

 

Just checked her again she is 145bg +3
Should I be worried about going to sleep

 

That's a good number, but pretty sizable drop and still pretty early in the cycle. Are you able to catch another test yet tonight?

We foster diabetic cats I don't usually use the term sick. We didn't set out to just foster diabetics, but the shelters we foster for have kept us in good supply of them over the last couple of years.

 

Teehee see what I mean about the food. I wouldn't go to bed just yet grab a +4 and we'll see where we're at. Hopefully she gets on her surfboard like she did for this morning's cycle.

Since we don't know her patterns too well yet though I'm afraid it's looking like there might be the need to set an alarm for some later testing even if she does. You ok with that?

 

If I need to stay up or set my alarm I will what time should I check her again?

 

Yes,
I'll do a +4 and what other times should I do

 

We foster diabetic cats I don't usually use the term sick. We didn't set out to just foster diabetics, but the shelters we foster for have kept us in good supply of them over the last couple of years. [/QUOTE]

Your good people to take care of them!

 

Melanie is a miracle worker with her diabetic foster kitties she must have the record for OTJ parties

I'll be keeping watch for your +4 and we can make a plan from there. It's hard to plan too far in advance because everything depends on the next number.

 

I'm thinking that we should have a +4 by now, hope everything is okay

 

Yeah. She is eating waiting for her to stop

 

**** she is at 70

 

Sorry the first test strip did not work, had to get another one, she was eating, when ahead and got a test

 

Wowsers it looks like you have a long night ahead how awesome that she is

How much did she just eat?

 

I think it would be best to test her again in another 30mins the way she is going. How is she tolerating the testing? I suspect she may have a lot more to go tonight.

I'm so excited with her being green - doing my happy dance

 

Also I'm don to 5 test strips left for that meter
I had my wife buy a micro meter today and I ordered some more test strips that will be here tomorrow for this meter.

 

She ate some, not a whole bunch, I filled her blow to,make sure she has food all night

 

Do you know if you're following TR or SLGS as yet?

You have strips for the human meter though don't you? You're testing on an Alphatrack at the moment aren't you?

Just remembered you are using the alphatrack definitely test in 30 mins. 68 on the AT is the point that we'd start feeding high carb food - do you have some? If not you can add some syrup to low carb

 

I syrup,
Yes on the alpha meter
Yes on the strips for the other meter

 

Will test in 5 minutes

 

I have a/d should I give her that?

 

At this point you don't want to let her eat too much as you don't want her to be full if you need to get some carbs into her. I would leave the bowl down but if she goes to it and starts eating like a maniac take it away and test immediately. If she is under 68 then you will want to let her have just a teaspoon or two of food with a little syrup on it. Try about 1/8 - 1/4 of a teaspoon.

It's a good idea to get some high carb wet food to have for these situations as the carbs from the food last a bit longer than the syrup in giving them a bump up.

 

Hi she is at 99bg and eating again

 

12:30 is her + 5 she is eating a lot should I give carbs

 

This is awesome for Willow.

How are you doing?

Hold off on the carbs for now

What type of fancy feast are you feeding?

 

I also have dry food and AD dry food
She went pee

 

Tender beef and chicken feast. Classic

 

How am I doing?
I have a headlamp strapped to my head running around like a chicken with his head cut off!

 

Should I test again in 30 minutes or 1 hour
Down to five test strips for this meter

 

Everyone said I should follow the TR however I agree with the decrees of the slgs

 

When you have more than one test in the same hour you can stack them on top of each other. You then need to manually colour the cell (using the icon that looks like a paint tin tipping) take a peek at Vyktor's spreadsheet to see how it's done.

LOL at the image I have of you now!

Since she's just eaten again you could try for a little catnap if the adrenalin will let you but maybe it's not long enough because she really needs a test an hour after the last one.

Don't worry it's not always like this, it can be a little hectic when we're learning their patterns and getting them regulated though.