? 5/20 The Furball tested low (1,8 mmol/L), do I panic and what do I do for the PM shot?

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Ron

Ron

Member Since 2014
Good afternoon/evening all!

This is my first post here but I've been lurking for quite awhile now (ever since my cat was diagnosed with diabetes last year). We've been giving him Lantus for a little over 6 months, but I have just recently mastered testing at home. I've downloaded the spreadsheet and have been recording results for the past several days. The results are not as complete as I would like but we are getting there.

The cat in question (affectionately named Ratface) is now 17 years old, is an indoor / outdoor cat. He was diagnosed last May (2014) with diabetes. He started with Caninsulin but it didn't seem to work for him and we changed over to Lantus in October of 2014. Due to a family emergency this April, he was boarded at the vet clinic for nearly a month and they monitored his blood glucose and shots for us. He's been in my care for the past 3 weeks and sadly is not doing as well as he was under the care of the veterinarian. He's been losing weight and seems to not want to eat. We've been feeding him Fancy Feast Elegant Medley (White Meat Chicken Florentine) and he's gone from regularly eating 3 - 4 cans a day to barely eating one. I've supplemented his food with raw liver, which I know isn't great for him but it seems to be the only thing he will actually eat. I've finally mastered getting consistent blood glucose levels and have been charting out his result on the great spreadsheet I found here (linked below).

I got home from work today and tested his blood glucose and got a reading of 1.8 mmol/L. Seeing as how he usually floats in a much higher range, I figured I made a mistake in my read and took another getting a result of 2.0 mmol/L. 20 minutes later and it was 2.9 mmol/L. Okay, good news is he's not going to explode on me. Bad news is I'm not too sure what to do for his evening dose (which is coming up in about 90 minutes). I've skipped a couple of days when his readings were low preshot and they seemed to bounce back up to the regular high numbers I expect and I'm trying to get him on a regular shooting schedule but it is difficult with work, a family member in hospital and all the odds and ends that come with that.

Now for my question. If his blood glucose is under 5 when it comes time to give him his shot, do I skip the shot? If it's 5 - 10 should I reduce the dosage (currently 2.5 units)? Any advice anyone could offer? Any suggestions on ways to entice my cat to eat? Is the "Liver Shake" from the FAQ worth pursuing or is it something that I should avoid?

Thanks in advance!

Ron



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sImI-h7Fa9zwXQRRO4Poc9pqt1k5bh_CNboX8YkrI90/edit?usp=sharing
 
Hello. That reading is too low..your kitty is in hypo numbers. I am too new to give dose advice but I would suggest you change the title of your post to add "911" to get immediate help.

Do you have syrup and higher carb foods avaailable>
 
First, I'm glad to see he's up to 2.9 (52)! That 1.8 (32) was definitely too low and earned him a reduction in dose...so he needs to go back down to 2.25. I might even suggest starting him lower than that and getting more testing in now that he's at home so you can see if he needs that much.

For now, you want to keep testing...at least 30 minutes from the 2.9 and again 30 minutes after that to make sure he stays above 50 (2.8) without any more food

If he's still above 50 after that, let's see where he's at then and figure out what to do about the PMPS tonight
 
Hi and welcome to LL. Chris best me to it! I was trying to figure out the world numbers but the color let me know it was too low. When you get a low reading line that it's a good idea to feed a spoon go gravy, high carb food, or a few drops of karo.
 
the liver shake is a good thing...
you can also get meat only ( stage 1 ) baby foods and add water.... or even a pate and add lots of water in order to syringe feed.


secondly.... please get rid of the ff elegant medley florentines.....
spinach is bad for cats and I can't believe any food company is doing anything with it....

those high numbers you've had are what we call a bounce.... they are normal....
his dose is likely too high....
we need to get our most experienced eyes to come help you determine a better dose.

i'll go find why cats should not have spinach....and bb....
 
Thanks everyone! I'll test him again in 30 minutes and see where he is at and post the results here.
 
Next, while it's great that you have the spreadsheet up, the majority of the people here are from the US and we use a different scale than the rest of the world, so if you could go back and download the WORLD spreadsheet, it'd really help. That spreadsheet will automatically convert the numbers for those of us in the US to the scale we're used to dealing with.

When you report your number here, it'll also help if you'll convert them....it's easy...just multiply by 18

The food you're feeding is really too high in carbs too. I use that when China is running a little low....it's about 12% carbs and we want them eating under 10%. The Fancy Feast Classics (pate's) are under 10% but there's a list of pretty much all the foods on this Food Chart. Look for Column C and find foods under 10%
 
found it....
Spinach does not belong in pet food! Spinach has one of the highest calcium oxalate levels of any food.
Cooking does NOT diminish the oxalates much at all, very minimally. The oxalates in spinach are very sturdy,
binding and are around 600-750 content milligrams per 100 gram serving. You’d have to boil or blanch it to
reduce it even 5-15% and then you’ve lost all the nutrients in it. 1/2 a cup of cooked spinach contains 755 mgs of
oxalates and 1 cup of raw spinach contains 656 mgs. Because spinach is now being added in a lot of pet food
brands, you may want to make sure to feed other foods and rotate that food so it's not fed everyday. Or if your
cat suffers from kidney, gallbladder or thyroid issues, you should forgo feeding it to them altogether! They should
not be eating any foods with those levels as it can do severe damage. Spinach can cause crystal formation in
the urinary tract and kidneys in cats. Calcium oxalate stones are EXTREMELY painful and once formed in the
kidneys, cannot be removed. Whether cooked or raw, spinach should be completely avoided in cats and has
been shown to cause such major damage it can result in hospitalization and in some circumstances, death. I
personally know someone who's cat died from being fed raw spinach. I recommend writing to the pet food
companies that do include spinach and request that they remove it completely from their products. NEVER feed
raw spinach to your pet, whether they are ill or healthy!
www.ibdkitties.net/January2012.html
Click to expand...
 
I'm linking the information on how to handle low numbers.

@Chris & China - Ron is using the World template. The toggle is at the bottom of the sheet.

When you say your kitty isn't doing well, can you be more specific? He's not eating well. What else is going on? Does he look uncomfortable? Is he lethargic?

Are you testing for ketones?

Also, do you have recent BG test numbers for your cat. What's on the spreadsheet looks like it's from last October.

Without more data, you may be looking at skipping a shot unless numbers are above at least 150. If your cat is prone to ketones though, we may need to reconsider.




 
Okay I just did another test and he is at 4.7 mmol/L (84.6) now. I've updated the spreadsheet with the new results. @Sienee and Gabby (hope I'm doing that right) what is the last line you see on the spreadsheet? I'm showing line 26 with today's date, but I see if I flip over to the US sheet it hasn't updated, not sure how to get it to automatically carry the data across. When I say he isn't doing well, I should have clarified. He is his usual self, more sedate than he used to be but perfectly capable of being a pain in the ass when he wants something. The issue is that he has really stopped eating his canned food having gone from 3 or 4 cans a day to maybe 1 a day (if I'm lucky). I've been feeding him raw liver to try to kickstart his appetite. He does go outdoors, so he may be catching food to eat out there since he has lost some weight but not a ton.

How would I test for ketones - The urinalysis sticks?

Thanks for the note about the spinach, didn't realize that it was bad for cats. Unfortunately I'm in Canada and the recommended foods from the Binky list and other sources don't seem to be available here. Any Canadians who could recommend a brand I could get at a local grocery store that is good for diabetic cats? I live in a small town and don't have a lot of choices on where to shop and he won't eat the FF Chicken Pate.
 
Does he act nauseous? Does he act like he's hungry but then walk away from his dish? That's not nearly enough food and cats need to eat or tgey can get fatty liver disease. Have you tried all meat baby food without garlic or onion? Boiled chicken?
 
He's vomited a couple of times over the last week, maybe once every couple of days. haven't seen I'll in the last 4 days. He defiantly acts hungry and will nibble at his food but won't eat much. Really he just licks it. Haven't tried baby food or boiled chicken, but I'll grab some tomorrow morning and see if I can entice him to eat it.
 
It's very common for cats to get pancreatitis. It can make them nauseous and many are in pain. Does he sit in a meatloaf position? My cat gas had chronic pancreatitis for 5 1/2 years. There are a couple of really good meds for the nausea. I give Max ondansetron which is a Hunan med but I think while its not expensive in the states it is in Canada. I would call your vet and see if you can get some cerenia to try. It is a pet med and also very good for nausea and inflammation. If he's nausea he's not going to want to eat so I'd call the vet in the morning.
 
Liver, raw or cooked, contains a lot of Vitamin A and too much vitamin A is toxic to cats as it is fat soluble and is stored in the body, not excreted. So I would only feed liver on moderation and not every day. Lisa Pierson says to use 4 ounces (113 grams) liver per 3 lbs ( 1.3 Kgm) of meat when making raw diet for cats so that should give you an idea of how much to use. That amount of food would last my cat about 10 days so that would mean about 10 grams liver a day is safe, which is not much liver but enough to safely give a cat.

Can you get the Weruva brand of cat food. It has low carb suitable for cats?

ETA: if you are going from a higher carb food to a lower carb food, which you should do if your cat is diabetic, please be aware that his need for insulin may drop to a lower amount and you will need to monitor closely when you swap to a lower carb food to make sure he doesn't drop too low.
 
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I just did another blood test and got a result of 7.3 mmol/L (131.4). He doesn't seem to be in any discomfort (although not impressed by the number of ear pokes he's gotten today). I'll set up an appointment with the vet tomorrow and see if I can find any other food (although I think my choices are really limited to Fancy Feast and Friskies). I'll grab some all meat, non-garlic and onion baby food and see if I can get him to eat that. What should I have the vet test and do I skip the shot for tonight with his numbers where they are?

Edit: He occasionally sits in a meatloaf position, but more frequently curls up and sleeps on his side. Now that I'm thinking about it, his water consumption has plummeted as well. It used to be at least a cup a day and generally it was two, now it's less than a cup a day (150 - 200 ml).

Thanks for all your help everyone, I sure appreciate it!
 
Yes test for ketones with the urinalysis sticks. You don't need the full urinalysis sticks, you can just use the ones that test for glucose and ketones. Not sure where you get them in Canada, but we can get them from the chemist or online.

ETA: will he eat gently boiled chicken breast or thigh? And you could also give him the juice it is cooked in? Not a complete food but fine to give for a few days til you get sorted. It is low carb so watch the blood sugar levels
 
If you're not sure you can get him to eat, I think I'd skip tonight....otherwise, you could stall another 20 minutes or so and see if it continues up (I am betting it will) and if you're pretty confident you can get him to eat, shoot the reduced dose....but you'd want to make sure to get a +1 and +2 to see where he's going so you can intervene early if necessary.

If you can't monitor tonight for any reason (low on strips, high carb food or need sleep), I'd probably skip too, but the most important part is if you're sure you can get him to eat tonight. That's the most important thing right now
 
I'll try to solve the sheet problem tonight, if I can't get sheet one and two to sync, I'll just set up a new sheet.
 
I may be able to find baby food at a 7-11, he'll nibble on some food in about being an hour or two, so I think I'll skip the shot tonight and see where he is at throughout the night and morning.
 
often cats who vomit will get a food aversion to that food....

it may help if you switch your subject line to canadian food help...... we have several canadians.


he will likely continue to go up high.... part of that bouncing....
 
Max likes Gerber's stage 2 chicken, ham, or turkey. He isn't crazy about Beechnut but it has less carbs. Gerbers isn't high carb but it does contain cornstarch. It's important that he eat and Gerbers often works. I would ask your vet to run the Spec fPL test to check for pancreatitis. If you don't have recent labs a CBC and chem 25 and urinalysis would be a good idea since he is drinking so much water. It very well is the diabetes but I'd want to make sure the kidneys are okay and to see if anything else is going on that explains the loss of appetite and vomiting.
 
Hi from a fellow Canadian. Do you have any pet food or feed stores near you? The supermarket or Canadian Tire do sell the Fancy Feast Pates which are mostly OK as are the Friskies Pate. A large number of the other low carb options available in the US are also available in Canada, in pet/feed stores.
Ron said:
'll grab some all meat, non-garlic and onion baby food and see if I can get him to eat that.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately - not available in Canada. The meat choices seem to have either corn starch (carbs) or veggies with onions in them.

Here are some other suggestions on getting a kitty to eat.
 
Just did another read and he's at 14.9 mmol/L (268.2). Still not eating much, will try to get a little more into him tonight and then off to the vet tomorrow morning. Thanks for your help everyone!
 
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