? 5/6 Oren; AMPS=556;+2.5=484;+5.5=412;PMPS=349;+4=182;+5.5=113;+6.5=92;

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Megan & Oren

Megan & Oren

Member Since 2015
Yesterday

Ugh. i pulled a late nighter just to see what he's been doing at night because the last few days I truly thought he might have just dipped into green at some point. But best I could get up to 7.75 was mid blue. Then this a.m, is that a bounce? Just from blue? :( or did he pull a sneaky dip after 7.75?:banghead:

so the dose went up to 6.25 this a.m. I believe I will call the vet later today. He did have bloodwork done back in Jan at his diagnosis, and everything re: kidneys etc. was ok at that time. I think I'm still suspecting that it might be his teeth... Do I just ask the vet to schedule dental xrays?

I also have a bit of a tech. question about how to best print the spreadsheet to take with me. Last time I tried the print was so small it was hard to read. Is there a trick?

@Wendy&Neko, IAA is feline leukemia? I really don't think he has that, he'd gotten the vacc many times and he is an indoor cat.
 
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Good morning!

Oren, Oren, Oren ... (smh) You have got to stop chasing after Zoey and set a better example than that. Show us how good you can be today, sweet boy. :)

Megan, when I print the ss I use legal paper. I've also printed it in two sections and attempted to match them up but they don't always line up right. I've started putting the dates on my comments section because that's where I break it at if I need to enlarge it and then the comments are easier to match up to the dated line. Maybe someone will tell us both a better way to do it 'cause ours isn't very big either.

IAA isn't leukemia. Here's a copy/paste of what it is:

Cats with Insulin Auto Antibodies (IAA)

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Insulin_antibodies
When insulin is injected into a diabetic cat, the body views it as a foreign substance and the immune system sets out to destroy the "invader" insulin, just as it would destroy cold and flu viruses. When this happens to injected insulin - most of it never reaches the bloodstream thus being unable to control blood glucose. Insulin doses may be increased but the immune system only goes into higher gear and continues to effectively destroy any additional injected insulin. Over time this becomes officially known as insulin resistance.

Sharyn and Fiona states: One article on humans suggests that changing insulin doesn't work. IAA is supposed to be self-limiting, meaning it goes away at some point. (See article link below) “We have a couple of anecdotal reports of kitties who, by continuing to raise the insulin doses, were able to overwhelm the antibodies, eventually lower the insulin doses and gain control of the BG’s.”

Currently 10/09 Sandy and Black Kitty seem to have done just that. At one point Black Kitty was needing 27 units of Lantus insulin/day. He is now OTJ. GREAT JOB BK!!!!

Link to have blood sent for IAA testing:
http://www.animalhealth.msu.edu/Bin/Catalog.exe?Action=Test&Id=1494
A result > 20% is considered positive for IAA.


Further Information:

*Extreme insulin resistance (IAA)
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/diabetes/faq/p ... on-24.html

*Beta cell and insulin antibodies in treated and untreated diabetic cats
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... archtype=a


me again: there are a few beans on here who deal with that. I don't remember who they are, but I see IAA in their tags sometimes.

Hope you and Oren have a good day today.
 
OH Rose, thanks!! my tired brain last night did a quick google for IAA feline, and it came up w/ the leukemia thing?! I should have known that wasn't it but i wasn't thinking clearly at all obviously. Sounds like i have more reading to do..:bookworm: . WIthout having done so yet, i wonder how a kitty can respond sometimes, like Oren clearly has, even reaching green many times if they have IAA? One would think they'd never respond at all, but perhaps it develops over time. Sigh. Guess I do need to call the vet. At least at +2.5 he was coming down... All of this is so very tiring... time to pour more :coffee::coffee::coffee:
 
ok, vet appt. scheduled for this Friday at 1:00 pm. This is the new practice I've been to only once so far and one of the docs is their dental expert. She does procedures on Mondays, but I'm taking him in Fri. for evaluation I guess. She comes highly recommended "you'll love her" according to the receptionist! and i know one other person w/ a diabetic kitty who recommended this practice to me, also sang this ladies praises. Hopefully we can tackle this. I have to admit to being a bit nervous about dentals after poor Milo's experience (tho that turned out to not be related I think, some kind of cancer perhaps?).

Now watch Oren pull a <50 before Fri on the new dose?!
 
My first question to the vet is whether they do dental X-rays. Not all do, and Neko's doesn't have the proper equipment, so I went to a dental specialist. The other reason I got a referral for the specialist is that Neko has a heart murmur and I wanted to be extra cautious. The specialist has a team that does a lot more monitoring during anesthesia.

You can think of IAA as like having an allergy to injected insulin. It's a condition that is supposed to be self limiting after about a year, Neko's broke after 9 months. There is a characteristic look to a spreadsheet of a IAA cat and although it wouldn't be my first guess for Oren, I suggested it because it's a cheap (around $16) add on to the acromegaly test and the two often go hand in hand. If you look at the Where Can I Find note, there are some posts on acromegaly and IAA.

As for bouncing today - he's just out of practice with the blues. :rolleyes: Good luck with the increase.
 
Good boy, Oren! Much better number to start the PMPS with. Glad you were able to get in to see a dental specialist who comes highly recommended and deals with diabetic kitties. That's a comfort. After Milo's sudden passing I can understand apprehension. I think I might make sure they didn't give that pain medicine that Milo was given ahead of time but like you said, he had other issues that were discovered to be the cause. I know you'll still worry though. (So will we.) Hope he behaves for you tonight.
 
If it makes you feel any better....Skooter just had the second part of his dental yesterday....he had his first on April 1st and he is bouncing back amazingly well....

I was a little nervous about the second one after hearing about sweet Milo....but it sounds like you will be in great hands!
 
Bupe wasn't the cause of Milo's death and it's used very commonly around here for diabetic cat. Punkin got it twice a day for months. I wouldn't avoid it because it's really the best pain reliever for a cat. There aren't many choices.

The extra $16 for the iaa test is worth it, just to rule it in or out. Acromegaly is the most common of the 3 high dose conditions - the current thought is that perhaps 25% of diabetic cats have acromegaly. If that is true, that would certainly explain how many we see that are not seriously high dose, but they are insulin-resistant and harder to get regulated.
 
I thought the Bupe was given to Milo before the anesthesia which was not something that was normal procedure and what they were thinking, at first, might have been the issue with him not waking up right away. I didn't think it was necessarily the medicine that had them concerned, but the application of it being used before the anesthesia. I've got that pain medicine now for Zoey and use it without issues, too.
 
Neko has been on buprenorphine twice a day for almost a year and a half, for her arthritis. She had her normal dose of bupe the morning of her last dental. It is recommended that pain medication be given before the fact, to "get ahead" of any pain. From the 2015 AAHA/AAFP Pain Management Guidelines for Cats and Dogs:
Anticipatory analgesia provided prior to pain onset is more effective than analgesia provided once pain has occurred, contributing to both a dose- and anesthetic-sparing effect.
Click to expand...
 
thanks everyone for chiming in. After reading a bit more about acromegaly, I would like to know more about how it presented for those here whose kitties have it? I see nothing in the way of excessive growth issues in Oren's jaw or head or paws. He shows no lameness, no excessive weight loss or gain. He did lose a bit of weight from diagnosis of FD for the first month, but has since gained it back, but not excessively. Previous examinations have not turned up any heart murmurs or issues.

I think Wendy, you said something about some bright light sensitivity w/ Neko, and tearing eyes? Could it just be that if he has it, it is in very early stages? And I'm seeing conflicting info. on testing for growth hormone levels as a definitive diagnosis. What did it take for you to get confirmation of a diagnosis?
 
ECID and each acrocat is even more different. Neko's heart murmur turned up a year after diagnosis. Getting the IGF-1 test (the blood test for acromegaly) is not 100% definitive, but a heck of a lot cheaper than the CT scan or MRI which is definitive. It was Neko's IGF-1 score (440 with normal being less than 92) plus her dose that were the determining factors. That plus her voracious appetite. The first sign something was off (before she started peeing more) was her going after some banana bread. And Neko was eating mostly wet food at the time. The actual IGF-1 number doesn't mean a lot. When image (for SRT), Neko had what they call a tiny tumor, but her IGF-1 score was a lot higher than cats with half the IGF-1 score and bigger tumors. I think Julie said Punkin had no obvious signs other than his dose and appetite.
 
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