? 6/30/Ravan/ampsHIGH/+5 435/+10 464/pmps554/+5 260/+8 270

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/6-29-ravan-5-456-pmps535-2-348-4-210-8-97.197650/

Why is his BG going so high at amps & pmps. It's so high this morning it doesn't register! Ist time it's this high!

Then he drops real low in the evening. I gave him some food each time i tested & it seems to have made it worse. Could it be too much insulin?
Found this in an old post by Dyana from 2013
"Bounces all over the place can be from too much insulin, but sometimes cats just bounce because they have a strong liver. Most cats stop bouncing after awhile, once they are on a dose that doesn't freak out their liver."
What do I do ?

 

@Dyana
Can you Please look at Ravan's SS & offer some advice?

 

Oh my! Ravan!
Somehow we need to level him out. This morning when I saw what he did last night by +2 I posted in your condo that perhaps you could try giving a spoonful of med carb at +1 when his PS level is quite high. He drops so very much in the first couple of hours and we need to slow down the drop. I don't think you need to test at +1, just give the spoonful of food and then test at +2.
Other than that idea, idk. @Wendy&Neko do you believe Ravan is receiving either too much or too little insulin?

 

@Judy and Boomer

Judy did you read my post? I was giving him food after every test this morning & it seems to have made his bg worse!

 

J.D. used to bounce to the moon and back.
I would say Ravan is bouncing from the green last night or even partly from the 53 the night before. I would not raise the dose. I would keep the same dose for now, and hope his liver calms down.
Today, you can both can take a break from pokes and tests. Maybe get one at +10 or +11 to see how it compares to the PMPS test. That will help to let you know how tonights cycle might go. Get some things done today, while you can.

 

@Sienne and Gabby
Please Help! No one seems to know what to do Or have an answer why my cats bg keeps going higher

 

Yes I saw it. A tsp of food every test wouldn't cause that to happen. I've tagged Wendy, she's much better at dosing decisions than I am!

Obviously we don't know how long Ravan will decide to spend in black today but it may be a while since he was green only 4 hours ago.
I would suggest that, tonight at PM +1, give him a tsp of med or even high carb food in an attempt to slow down that drop.

 

@Dyana
Thank you for responding. Could you please check Ravan's SS once in a while ? Do you think it might be too much Insulin? Last time he was at 1.25 he dropped to 39 I had to lower his dose.

If i hadn't been giving him food this morning his bg might have been a lot lower. I think he may be very carb sensitive?

 

Sorry, I didn't read this until now.
I pretty much never gave J.D. dose reductions unless he went below 40. He had been a diabetic for 8 years already in 2013.

Yes, I will try to keep an eye on Ravan. I don't know why some cats have extreme bounces. I just know J.D. did and oh how I envied the cats with spreadsheets that showed flat cycles.

 

Exactly. So hopefully the +2 tsp of food helped but he needs more help. Try giving a tsp of med carb food at +1. Not necessary this morning! But tonight when he is likely to drop again

 

Hope he comes down for you today, come on Ravan you can do, hugs to you both?how is Peggy sue doing this am?

 

@Bellasmom
Thank you. I'm upset ! His bg is going higher instead of getting better.Doesn't seem there is anything i can do.
Peggy Sue is good, still eating! She wants to go outside so bad but i won't let her unless i'm out too. It's 10 am & 90 degrees !I'm not going out!

Send some vines to Ravan so his bg starts getting a LOT Lower! ( it helped Peggy Sue!)

 

Vines for Ravan's BGs to slowly get a lot lower. It's the steep drops that cause the bouncing.

 

@Dyana
Thank you Dyana! We need all the help we can get!

Last time Ravan was on 1.25 he dropped to 35 & got a decrease. Doesn't that mean too much insulin?

 

Sort have the same problem with Olive. She will be pink or red for PS then dive in the first 3 hrs, surf for about 2 hrs then zoom back up. This is what I tried. Olive gets 3-4 cans a day (3 oz cans).

PS regular 3% carb food. Then at +2 I gave 1 tsp 6% and then again at +3. To slow down the sharp drop. That didn't seem to work so tried 12% carbs for +2 & 3. It helped a little.

Now what I do is down right feed her so most food is in by +5. So she gets 1.5 oz at shot time. 1 oz at +2 and +3. 1/2 oz at +5 or +6, and 1/2 oz at +8 or +9. Sometimes she doesn't eat the later snacks, but she is getting her calories in the first 6 hrs of cycle.

It has taken a couple of weeks but she isn't diving anymore. Still has pink and red PS but in between is all yellow and short time in blue. Going back quite a ways she never saw yellows. She went pink/red right down to blue green and then bounced right back. I don't think her PS now are bounces its just normal climb at end of cycle. She is now getting use to yellows and high blues for most of cycle. Just a reminder she is acro so that makes it more difficult to deal with.

You might have to try playing around with the food. Give each change time to work or not work (this was the hardest part) before trying another change in food schedule.

It's something to think about. Using food to manipulate the cycle. It's trial and error and won't happen overnight. It took me forever to figure this out. I knew food was important role, but didn't think it needed to be so precise.

Good luck.

 

@Olive & Paula
Thank you for responding & your suggestions. I did try feeding this morning +2 I added a little HC to his FF +4 1/2 can FF Classic +8 another 1/2 can FF His amps was so high it didn't register! Must have been over 600!
Ravan is 16 I'm so afraid these huge #'s are gone to harm him!
His PS is getting high & higher instead of lower. He was doing better weeks ago. I don't understand why BG is getting worse?
Last time he was on this dose he dropped to 35. Could it be too much insulin?

 

Joy, Raven is bouncing and then the HC at +2 will drive the numbers higher. Don't panic. Remember these bounces are the bodies normal reaction to a perceived low. And the body will adjust the other way. Just keep doing what you are doing. You may want to use LC only on bounce days.

 

@Tracey&Jones
I don't understand why he's not bouncing in lower #'s? He keeps going Higher?

Do you mean I should NOT add HC to his FFClassic or give higher carbs at all?
Ravan eats several times a day He also gets his raw meat, besides the FF.
He gets very Hungry when his BG is HIGH. He's not overweight. He lost weight weight in the beginning now he eats a lot but isn't gaining weight ,yet.

 

@Bellasmom,
Thank You! Such a beautiful Photo,Peaceful! I'd Love to have that in my Yard! ( I could pick the grapes & make wine, that might calm me down! )

 

HELP
I can't seem to down load the Food Chart? I click on the words Food Chart & it just keeps taking me to another page?

 

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

 

His numbers will keep going up until they don't. Look at Jones SS - he got a 54 yesterday and didn't seem to bounce...until today!

I meant when he is in a bounce cycle don't add in the HC - just keep to his LC and raw. He can eat as much as he wants though...I would keep up with the snacks through out the cycle.

 

@Tracey&Jones @Olive & Paula
If you look at Ravan's ss from last night he started in black at PMPS and dropped almost 200 points in the first two hours. After having eaten at PMPS he should have been higher or perhaps level; certainly not 200 points lower. The +2 snack may have helped last night but it didn't catch the big drop which obviously happened before +2. I have suggested to JoyBee that she try a +1 med carb snack when his PS # is high (and we're expecting him to drop, not like this morning). Any thoughts on this?

 

@Tracey&Jones
If Ravan bounced in yellow I'd be very happy! Just several weeks ago he was doing good. Why do you think his am & pm bg went so very high?
He doesn't get snacks,never has. He eats as much as he wants,never felt the need for snacks. Maybe that's why he's never been overweight?

 

Some kitties can control their appys, others can't.

 

I'm wondering where in Ravan's cycle we are now? I'm guessing around +5? I would suggest getting a test now or around +6 to see what he's doing.

 

@Judy and Boomer
+5 435 Why do you think his am & pm Bg has gone up so high?

 

I don't know why his "high" numbers are so much higher than before. His liver is sure working overtime to "protect" him from those lower numbers.
We will break through this, it will just take some time and, unfortunately, some experimenting to see what works.

I do have another idea but we always try to test out one theory at a time and that way we know what works and what doesn't. I am hoping the +1 med carb food helps.

I would suggest grabbing another test before PMPS, maybe at +9.

 

@Dyana,
I'm confused about your kitty J.D. How long did he live with Diabetes? (20yr birthday confused me) His SS scares me It looks like Ravan's.
After all you went thru with him didn't you ever figure out WHY he was bouncing so High,for so long?

I don't understand why Ravan's am & pm bg has started to go Higher?
Why isn't his body getting used to the lower #'s

This is 2018 No ONE has figured this out yet? Does this happen to humans also?

 

@Judy and Boomer

Now I more confused! Tracey & Jones said DO NOT feed any higher food just stay with the LC when he in a bounce.

My Brains (if I even have any left) are going to Implode!!

 

Yes I agree to feed him low carb food when he's in a bounce. The trick is to try to determine when he is coming out of the bounce because when he does, he dives. And we want to slow down this dive.

I am hopeful that if you get a +9 test we will be able to tell whether he's coming out of the bounce. Paws crossed

 

I think Judy and I are saying the same thing. It is not easy but learning when and how to give MC and HC can be hard in a kitty that likes to dive and bounce. I have been through it.

Like Judy said, to watch for that drop and then give the right food at the right time is the key. Then learning what the bounce looks like and not to feed more into it.

 

Try smaller amount at +8 maybe 1/4 can. He is already rising by then and 1/2 can will just add to it. Or just the raw as that would have very low carb if any.

 

J.D. was diabetic from 11 to 20, so 9 years. Some cats just bounce. He has tabs on his spreadsheet from 2008 when I joined, through 2014. Here's his 2013 spreadsheet. All I know is that he had a strong liver. I work 50 to 60 hours a week, so I did the best I could. I just left food out, prayed a lot, and did tests at night and on my days off.

 

@Dyana
How old was he when he died? 20?

 

Yes. When he was 14 to 16, I prayed he would make it to 18. When he got closer to 18, I prayed he would make it to 20 or his early 20s. He passed away while I was away at work Big Tears! just a couple of weeks after his Birthday.
And I wanted so bad to take the day off the day of his 20th Birthday, but could not. He lived a great life. He walked on a leash and we went for long walks before work and after work. That helped him with his arthritis (and probably mine too), and later when the pain meds caused constipation the (then shorter) walks helped him in the poo department, I think.
Because he was diabetic, I could not leave him at home, so he flew with me from NJ to CA and back once a year to visit my Dad, for 8 years. He didn't go the last year because I felt it would be too much stress for J.D. My Dad just passed away a couple of weeks ago, on June 12th. More Big Tears!
The day before J.D. passed away, my neighbor stopped us outside to say how great J.D. looked, and asked his age and I said he was 20. She said her cats that lived to be 18 or less were lethargic and skinny and laid in their beds all day. J.D. liked his walks, and loved and trusted me. My vet still mentions how great of a cat he was. He also loved Buddy the cat who "raised" him, and Ginger, my other cat who he "raised", and I have many many photos of them snuggling together or bathing each other. He had a very good life, diabetes and all.

 

@Dyana
Thank you so much for sharing that with me. He did have a wonderful life , You're a very compassionate, loving person.
I have TRUST issues from past experience with people i thought cared about me.
Our animals give us "Unconditional LOVE" I've chosen to keep their company!
So Sorry to hear about your dad. It sounds like you were close to him. Recently someone said to me," you've been thru this many times before, it should be easy by now" (Talking about my cats dying)
When you Love another Being it Never gets easy to say goodbye!
Over 47 yrs I buried 13 in my garden. I think about each one every day & miss them all!

Thank You

 

Ravan will tell you if the dose is too high by going under 50. He hasn't done that yet. You test enough you would catch the lows.

Those high greetings are hard to see. I hated when Neko's meter used to greet me "Hi". She started going higher when she was finally seeing better stretches of lower normal numbers. She got over it, in her time, not according to my schedule, It helped me to think of the high greetings as her response to me finally getting her into better numbers that she wasn't used to. The other thing that is causing those high numbers for Ravan is those steep drops. No one can tell you exactly how to feed the curve to slow down his drops. ECID, and you have to experiment to find out what works for Ravan.

Another thing to consider, don't feed for tests after nadir in the second half of the cycle, unless you have to for low number or he is still dropping fast. Low or no carb treats are fine. But carbs after nadir will slow down the insulin action and impact duration, causing him to skyrocket at the end of the cycle.

 

Thank you.
I have been here a long time. I'm just paying it forward. This is a great forum filled with very caring compassionate people. The people on this board helped me out when I had to go to California suddenly to visit my Dad before he passed. One took my cats into her house and pet sat for me, another picked me up at the airport in California and drove me to my Dad's house and back, and another helped me out via phone call when I was lost in California. I have become friends with many people here. It becomes a family, and is a great group of people. You are in good company here.

 

@Dyana,
I just tested Ravan he's still high +10 464 I looked at his SS & he always drops to the low # +5 or +6 He just ate a spoon of FF Classic any suggestions for tonight?

To me that's MORE than family My real family wouldn't do all that for me!

 

@Dyana
Ravan has got in the habit of eating at 2:30 am I have no idea how to change that. When he wants food he gets very loud & very persistent. No way can I sleep through that or ignore him.
If there's not enough food he'll pester me for an hour till I give him more. ( I never last an hour at 2:30 in the morning.) So how i'm going to do this with his food is beyond me! And then no food after his nadir?

That's 5 hrs? He has never gone that long without eating!

 

I have a cat like that as well. A lot of people on this forum can tell you about the several months when Boomer was waking me at 2:00 to...I kid you not...stir his food. I got him out of that habit by giving more food at +3. I give him a wee tiny amount of chicken pate and 3 or 4 pieces of chicken at +9.

We'll have to experiment with the food a bit. I really don't know whether I expect him to come down tonight. Waiting to see what PMPS is.

 

@ Wendy&Neko

The last time Ravan was on 1.25 dose, after 2 weeks he suddenly dropped to 35BG at +4 AM Surprised me!
He's been on 1.25 for almost 12 days now & he did go down to 53BG +8 PM two night ago.And he did have food in him. It might have gone lower without food.

His nadir is at about +7 4:30 AM I shoot at 9:30 That's 5 hrs without food? That's going to be a problem!

 

A cat's insulin needs can change over time. For that reason, we only look at about the last couple weeks of data. The last time he was on 1.25 units was over two weeks ago.

If you must feed after nadir to soothe the hungry beast, try feeding a small zero carb snack. Neko for years had gotten a small meal around the time that was her +9 and expected it. As an acrocat, she was adamant about her food entitlements! I switched it to zero or very low carb, then gradually reduced the amount. Feeding carbs to keep him safe is different.

 

@Wendy&Neko
@Judy and Boomer
pmps 554 He doesn't usually drop till +5 or 6 Any suggestions?

 

I'm a bit surprised he's still so high. But surely he's ready to come down soon!
Last night he started out black and dropped almost 200 points in 2 hours.
You could grab a +1 test and, if he's dropped any, give him some med carb food.

I'm heading to bed but if I happen to be awake in an hour I'll check in on you.

 

I really need some sleep & Ravan nearly always drops around +5 It's 2:30 & he's at 260. I just gave him a spoon of raw meat.
I'll check again at 5:30. I do love those green #'s but I'm hoping for blue. He needs to put the brakes on these drops!!
Slow down Ravan or I'll take away your drivers license! Typical kid, likes to race around & doesn't think his mom knows!

 

5:30AM BG270 YAY!

 

Just wondering if you grabbed a +1 test and/or whether you gave food?

 

@Judy and Boomer

He ate quite a bit at 9:30 after his shot And his poor ears are a wreck so I did not check at +1 He goes up at +1 & +2 In the past he was always Higher so I stopped checking at those times.
He nearly always drops at +4 & +5.
I gave him only small amounts of raw meat during the night. I wonder if the lower #'s are because of the raw meat or just because his body adjusted.

Right now I'm relieved his BG is down. I'd rather see Green but These numbers look great compared to the last 2 days!
His right ear has stopped giving even a drop of blood. And the left one is just over used. I do all the things I'm supposed to, his ear is just being poked too much. It really needs a rest to heal.
He runs & hides when I get the test stuff out!

I sure hope today he just stays in the middle NO BIG drops!

 

Well that gave me BIG TEARS! These beautiful animals are here for such a short time (even 20 years isn't enough).