? +6 GC 47 (and we are still not at nadir)

Hello dears!!

Im little concerned. We are +6 and GC is 47 and I have to leave now. I can come back in an hour to feed Markies again. I gave canned whiskas.

Is he earning lower in the dose? He is no showing symptoms, just a tone of voice (his meowing) that sounds like a little girl.

Silvi

 

Silvi, I have posted an alert to your post in the Health Forum. I think you have to treat this like a hypo, but I haven't given insulin in years and not sure what to advice. If this was my cat, I'd give some or food and maybe some honey or syrup.

 

Please give your kiitie some food to help bring up the BG, as you are getting low and especially since you have to leave.

 

And, could you get another test in 20 mins after the food to see where that took you. Preferably some medium carb food.

 

Bobbie, thanks to showing up to help. Silvi said she had to leave for an hour at 5:09.

Silvi, are you back yet? Please get another test and let us know what's happening.

 

Thanks foe the alert Debby.

 

I'm here too, Bobbie, if you need me.

 

I have to go. I sure hope Silvi comes back and that Markies is ok.

 

I'm hoping that, since he was at +6, he'll start coming back up, but I'm not familiar with how Levemir works.

 

Thanks Lucy! Hopefully when Silvi comes back and test everything will be okay.

 

@Squalliesmom and I are here. Thanks Debby!

 

I'm not either, but since we are the only ones that are here, I would rather err on the side of caution.

 

5:09 what time zone? Isn't she in South America?

 

Yes, I believe Argentina.

 

Thanks Sharon!! Glad you are here, you and Colin are Levemir.

 

Agreed!!!

 

Yes, it's Argentina.

 

Levemir can have a later nadir, sometimes as late as the next pre-shot test. What does the spreadsheet show for likely nadir? (I'm on my older phone which hates Google Sheets).

I'd probably be feeding a several teaspoons of medium to high carb, maybe even abort the cycle with a full meal if I couldn't be home to monitor and there is a risk of hypo. Better too high for a day than too low for a moment.

 

Hi Silvi what are you doing over here my love, everyone that knows you is in the LL forum but I have come upon your post by chance!

Markies has most definitely earned his reduction to 1.75 units although if he comes up very high at AMPS - say to the red floor - then you can shoot the 2 units ONE more time. We call that shooting through the bounce.

I think you have probably left already so I hope you left some food out for Markies. When you get back in an hour that will probably have bumped him up but if you have to just test and go out again leave more food unless he has hit the yellows already as it may wear off again.

Levemir has a late nadir so it is probable that Markies not there yet.

ETA: BJM - Markies is still pretty new to the dance and hasn't been showing a consistent nadir time but some have come late in the cycle.

 

So glad someone who knows Markies weighed in. Thinking maybe Silvi posted here by mistake. Thanks @Vyktors Mum !

 

Yeah I think she might have done too, those low numbers can get you a little flustered!

 

Thanks. I figured someone would be able to see the spreadsheet and knew that Lev could nadir late.

 

Hope Markies is okay!

 

I agree with what Serryn (@Vyktors Mum ) has said on the reduction earned. Sometimes these later nadir kitties can nadir a little earlier when they want a reduction, but I wouldn't count on it. I hope he's got food to snack on and you'll be back home soon.

 

Im back things are ok let me complete the ss

he went up to 60 something and left.. and came back after 1 hour to feed him again and left again

 

nice surprise of having you all here!! I have to set up my phone to receive this notifications.

Numbers where like this

shot time 1PM (212)
+ 6 (47) gave canned whiskas twice
+ 6.5 (68) more canned whiskas and left
+ 8 came back to feed Markies (coudln't test since I was with my nephews and Markeis was hidding under the bed), but I was able to feed him with more canned whiskas.
+10 (227)

Symptoms where: he is like isolated and meowing like a baby (thin tone of voice).

Now he is isolated not interacting nor asking for food, looks weird, like with chineese eyes (semi open). His GC is 227 but looks not him.

Its simply incredible that whenever I have to go out, he does hypo or close. It's like Murphy'w law.

Let me read all your postins and THANK YOU FOR BEING THERE!!

 

Thanks for the update. Good to know he's OK.

 

About my posting in the wrong place, yes!! I was little nervous since I had to leave and he was with this low number. Can anyone change the place were this is posted?

 

Im going to cuddle with him now.. need to see he is back to being Markies!

Let me know what you think I should do with dosing. Tomorrow I will have to leave again for some hours (more than today). This is getting very difficult. I may probably cancel tomorow's errands.

 

Happy to hear all's well!

Yes. I will move the entire thread to the Lantus and Levemir Forum.

 

Thank you Jill!! Fortunately he is ok. He cuddle with me and he is eating now.

 

Never the "wrong" place, lol, everyone will always try to help you or find someone with the proper knowledge to help! It just might take a little longer for a Levemir user to come along!

So glad Markies is okay!

 

@Squalliesmom
Whenever Lantus or Levemir help is needed in other areas of the board, the best bet is to post in the Lantus and Levemir Forum for help.

 

OK...first of all, let's get some terminology right...a 47 isn't necessarily a "Hypo"....it's a low number that needs attention. We don't usually consider it an "official" hypo unless they're showing clinical symptoms of hypoglycemia, like shaking, stumbling, confusion, seizures, etc.

A normal cat can have blood glucose levels in the high 30's, but we'll usually tell you to go ahead and start feeding something high carb when they drop below 50 because the "safety net" is getting pretty small at that point

There are lots of us that have been at this awhile that won't reduce our dose until our cats have dropped below 50 three times, or below 40 once, but usually that's for longer term diabetics or cats that are really hard to keep control of

Now all that being said, since Markies is still a "new diabetic", yes, you'd want to reduce his dose down to 1.75 starting at your next shot UNLESS he bounces really high...like into the 300's

IF he does bounce high, you have the CHOICE of giving one more dose of 2U just to help him get through that bounce, but no matter what, you'd still reduce on the next dose. That one time dose is called "shooting through the bounce"

 

thank you dears!!
I need to know what dose to continue shooting. I will decrease from 2 to 1.75 as Vyktor's mom said. Do you agree?

 

Thank you Chris!!!!!

 

I agree, wholeheartedly, just didn't want her to think there was something "wrong" with posting here, as well!

 

ok, at shot time he was 419 so he bouced. I did what you call "shooting through the bounce" so I gave him 2 units to help him with this bouncing and tomorrow will reduce to 1.75.

THANK YOU!!!

 

Perfect!! And I'm really glad you understood about "shooting through the bounce" too!! Looks like he can use that little extra juice tonight since he's in the 400's!

 

So glad all ended well. Nice to meet you virtually Slivi!

 

Point taken, Chris. Let me clarify why I put out a call for for help. The fact that Markie was meowing in a different tone made me nervous - Maggie would do that when she was too low. I didn't know how experienced Silvi was in dealing with possible hypos. I called it a possible (probable) hypo in a post in the health forum to get some eyeballs to Silvi's post in the Welcome Forum.

I haven't given insulin for many years. I did use Lev, but the protocol has totally changed since then, so I never give dosing advice. But Maggie would sometimes drop suddenly into hypo territory without any warning. Though 47 isn't a hypo, it is low enough to be extra cautious. And not all cats have the obvious symptoms you mention when they hypo. It was a better safe than sorry call on my part.

I'm just SO glad Markie is ok. Thanks everyone for responding!

 

So if 47 isn't considered hypo. what number is? I was under the impression anything 50 and lower should be treated as a possible hypo event especially since his clinical sign were showing a change in crying like Silvi stated. And who's to say that the reading of 47 was really a 37 with the 20% +/- variances on meters ? I am happy to be able to learn more because of this post. Any information is very welcomed.

 

Dears,

I opened a new thread after yesterday´s. This is it.
Markies GC bounced yesterday night and also today. Now Im shooting 1.75 instead of 2 units. During the night he went from 419 at shot time to 185 at +5 and then 147 at +6. So he dropped a lot.

Now at shot time he is 419 again, so he keeps bouncing. Can the reduction needed be more, I mean for example 0.5 of reduction instead of 0.25?

Silvi

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...5-68-shot-time-419-4-185.147159/#post-1529797

 

Maggies mom I trully apreciate all your efforts yesterday night. I was really surprised when I read all you messages. Felt really good, I feel taken care. I feel safe.. Simply thank you!

 

Bobbie and Bubba, I leart from the DCI and this forum that cats show different symptoms and behavior whenever they are on low numbers (or don't show any symptoms). I also learned that glucose on 40s could not be a big deal and that some cats are ok in those numbers.

Markies is not a low number cat. That also I learnt. Although he is not a low number cat (he shows signs of discomfort) this is not a number for example to administer syrup or honey, unless the cat is having symptoms of hypo (seizures, disoriented, etc). It seems that glucose in 40s is not a good number from the point that you dont have much space for more drops (Im sorry that I may not be the best to explain this, due to my short experience and language barrier). I mean, that is a number that calls our attention and to take action but doesn't mean that the cat is in hypo.

Hypo is not only a glucose nymber but a collection of symptoms + low glucose number.

Markies was on hypo when he reached gc of 25 and the next test the glucometer showed LO. At that time (this was October 5th) his back legs were like limping, he walked like drunk. Fortunately he didn't have a seizure. I gave him honey and food.

This time when he was on GC 47 I gave him his canned whiskas and didn't show any symptoms, just little isolation and when I was feeding him and he was meowing, his tone of voice sounded like a baby. THis is a symptom that he is not having a good time at all. I know Markies, this baby crying is only when he is not ok, or when his GC is low or when his GC is high.

Sorry to taking too long. I trully apreciate your help.

Silvi

 

Just to clarify (although I think Silvi did a pretty good job of explaining when she said "Hypo is not only a glucose number but a collection of symptoms + low glucose number")....it's just the WORD "hypo" that I am talking about....it's used too much here when what we are really meaning is just a low number. The reason I make the distinction is because people hear the word "hypo" and assume their cat is in severe trouble. Since the protocols/methods we use here encourage numbers that a lot of vets would consider "hypo", it's just important to understand that there's a difference

A "true hypo" is when they have symptoms such as the ones listed below as well as a low number....now since ECID, that "low number"' varies...if your cat shows symptoms along with a low number (even if that number isn't so low) Some cats can show symptoms at 60,70 or 80....some won't show any symptoms at 20...but once a cat has a "true hypo", they can be much more sensitive to insulin so it's just important to understand the "difference"

MILD HYPOGLYCEMIA
Sudden ravenous hunger
Shivering
Weak or lethargic

MODERATE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Disorientation
Trouble with vision... bumps into furniture
Poor coordination, such as staggering, walking in circles or acting drunk
Changes in head or neck movements
Restlessness
Urgent meowing
Behavioral changes, such as aggressiveness

SEVERE HYPOGLYCEMIA
Convulsions or seizures
Unconsciousness

 

I totally agree with you!! We used to talk a lot more about the difference between a "hypo" and a low number....I haven't seen this discussion brought up in awhile

When a caretaker is worried about their cat is not the time to quibble about the word being used though so its always better to call out the calvary!! I didn't in the least bit mean to sound critical!

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain this to me. I am still collecting information and learning and appreciate the explanation.