7/16/Ravan/+4 449/+8 179/pmps95/+2 258/+5 430/

2018Fundraising PageAmazon Link
7/15RAVAN/+9 250/+11 400/pmps412/+4 242/+7 265/

Opinions Please: Should I switch to Levemir due to Ravan's big Bounces? (when I use up the Lantus)
Right now I'm Happy to see a few yellow #'s but I'm worried about the Bounce.

 

Hi, I just responded on yesterday's thread. What was today's AMPS?

 

I'd like to read yesterday's thread..but the link doesn't work?

 

I have no experience with Lev but I've heard that it quite often has a later onset/nadir which means you might be shooting low numbers.

 

I've used Lantus now on lev. Must say it doesn't stop bounces all together. Cats bounce until they don't. Also in Olive's case (remember she has acro) the duration is not any longer than the Lantus. She also doesn't have late nadirs. The only difference between the two I see in Olive (can't say for anyone else) is she is less aggressive on the higher dose of lev and this dose doesn't sting her like the Lantus did at this dose. If she was still on Lantus she would probably be at a higher dose by now

 

@Sue and Luci

I just clicked on Lantus forum & clicked on 7/15 Ravan & it came on ?

 

She is talking about the link at the top of this thread, I can’t get either

 

From looking at Ravans spreadsheet I think you should have increased sooner from the 1u, I think if you increase per TR protocol his numbers will come down
On 7.4 it was 6 cycles, no greens, I would have increased then
6 cycles, no greens, I would increase, that’s what I do anyway
I may be wrong and others might weigh in
I hope and hugs pray he comes down

 

Your link to yesterday's condo isn't working.

Here is one for Yesterday

 

@Bobbie And Bubba

I shoot at 9:15 to 9:30 Central time AMPS 564 Why is it still so High? This isn't a bounce anymore? Is it?

 

On 7-2 he had blue I was told to hold dose till the bounce cleared. Just like now, Everyone agreed not to increase until the bounce cleared.

Ravan's BG is doing crazy things .Your Bella is pretty stable so for you 3 days is working. Bella hasn't gone into black or red for a long time.
Ravan has these Huge bounces that seem to be lasting longer.And the latest news that he has Pancreatitis & Kidney disease isn't helping!

His amps is 564! I'm not at all happy !

 

I do not know why the link isn't working?
I added the words "Fund raising" & now it seems to be working?

Why is Ravan's amps so HIGH?

 

I would say the pancreatitis has a lot to do with it, the vet needs to treat it and I know he must be in pain

 

Possibly a bounce from yesterday's yellows or from the large drop from PMPS to +4? Or perhaps some NDW (new dose wonkiness) when the depot has to fill to the new dose?

 

@Judy and Boomer
His really high bg seems to be mainly at amps & pmps could it be the depot is pretty much empty at that time?

 

That's not the way the depot works, JoyBee. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/what-is-the-insulin-depot.150/

 

It's confusing Ravan has not been vomiting, vet says he's not dehydrated, he eating good (And eating the very best Raw diet)
From what I read Ravan does not have the symptoms of Pancreatitis. The only thing I read they do for inflammation is Steroids!!

What are you suggesting I do?

 

Actually, the med, Cerenia, acts as an antinausea, antivomiting drug and also has some antiinflammatory effects. Steroids might be used in a case of severe, life-threatening pancreatitis or during a bad flare of IBD. In that case it's a risk-benefit situation and the insulin is dosed around the effects of the steroid. Steroids aren't to be used lightly but there's a place for them in really serious situations.

If Ravan is eating, is not dehydrated, etc. what was the basis for a diagnosis of pancreatitis? Is he showing signs of abdominal pain (sitting hunched up, etc.)? It can be a very painful condition and that's why a painkiller like buprenorphine is often used.

Unfortunately in an acute situation you might have to consider medication to help Ravan. I know you're reluctant to go there.

 

@Kris & Teasel

I read the info you provided. Thank You.
I've been considering Levemir Insulin It does say it stayed in the depot a bit longer than Lantus. What's your opinion?

I still have some Lantus to use up so it won't be for a while. I'm not sure what to do.

Did you see Ravan's Labs on his SS. His electrolytes are good. He's eating good (mostly Raw Meat diet) NO vomiting, Does not show any signs of Nausea.Vet said he's not dehydrated. He's not sitting hunched up or showing any other signs of pain.I started giving him CBD oil today for inflammation.
Several days ago he went off his food refused to eat for nearly 24 hrs. That's when I had blood work done.

What's your opinion on his diagnosis of Pancreatitis?

 

Diabetes strikes 1 in 400 cat. Veterinarians have found that the rates are rising dramatically, it is because cats are no longer eating healthy food that are suitable for their natural diets, even worse, cats are spoiled, they are eating all the time, they have excess food!

In nature, cats only eat once or twice a day and they keep moving a lot in order to avoid predators and to also find food;Our sedentary cats are becoming lazier & are also consuming a huge amount of calories every single day!

This increases their diabetes risks a lot and to lower this risk, you need to start giving your cat turmeric daily.

Diabetes is first of all an inflammatory disease, pancreatic cells are going to lose their strength and abilities to produce enough insulin and this is the reason why people and even cats get type II diabetes in the first place.

 

Is anyone using Turmeric for their cat? Please read this article http://www.foodfurlife.com/turmeric--the-golden-paste---unsafe-for-cats.html

 

Using Coconut oil?
Coconut oil, a medium-chain triglyceride (MCT) is metabolized differently than other fats. What is not known is if this is related to why studies of cats fed MCTs show conflicting outcomes: some say it's safe, in others cats developed fatty liver. MCTs are absorbed directly into the portal system without requiring bile salts; what this means is that the liver becomes primarily responsible for metabolizing MCTs. Cats, unlike dogs, are not "designed" for feast-or-famine metabolism, and fats can quickly and easily overwhelm a cat's liver, causing hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver) (prolonged use in humans can do this, too. Of course, the relationship is likely dose dependent - and there are no long term studies in cats done to determine safety.

 

No, the depot doesn't really work like that.
It's mainly because the strength of the insulin is waning.

 

I’m sorry to just get to you now on the labs. First, I’d not give coconut oil. As you noted, there is conflicting research on the effects MCTs have on cats so why risk it?

If you are wanting to use something to help support his liver, I’d either use Denamarin or milk thistle. Denamarin typically works well for most cats but you must give it on a fasted tummy an hour before food and it cannot be crushed or broken up. Keep in mind the elevations on his liver enzymes are fairly mild and could be due to pancreatitis but you definitely want to watch them. The half life of ALT and ALP is fairly short but those numbers are showing there has been something that has caused injury to his liver cells.

I’m definitely seeing pancreatitis. Have you ever read my Primer on Pancreatitis? It provides some treatment options. While it’s too soon to give subq fluids for CKD, you might find, if the vet prescribes it, that a few treatments of subq fluids might help him feel a little better regarding the pancreatitis.

In regard to the CKD, I did see that someone already linked Tanya’s website and it is the gold standard for treating CKD. The things you need to watch are the creatinine, phosphorus (I’d like to see his a little lower because the sooner you can address it and keep it closer to 4, the better he will do over the long run), potassium (you really want it midrange and it’s a tiny bit above that), calcium (his is really on the edge of being too high so it needs to be watched), hematocrit (still good). I’d be adding lots of extra water to his food and make sure he has plenty available. With CKD cats, you want them to be able to get as much water through eating and drinking for as long as possible. When the creatinine gets above 3.5, that’s when you want to think about daily subq fluids.

I’d also suggest you have the vet check his blood pressure and keep an eye on it as CKD cats are prone to high blood pressure. Left untreated, it can be extremely damaging.

Please let me know if you have any questions. I’m going to refrain right now from making comments on his insulin dose. I haven’t been around in a bit (my mom just passed away) and can’t commit to staying on top of it for you but please tag me if you have questions about his labs. I can help you sort through those.

 

@Marje and Gracie
Sorry to hear about your mother. Mine was 89 when she died & it was still a shock. I hope you find peace at this difficult time.

Thank you for the info about Ravan's labs.I don't use Coconut Oil I just posted info if someone else might need the info. I do use Milk Thistle. Once a day in Baby food in a feeding syringe.Ravan is not nauseous or vomiting. He eats good.

The vet said he was not dehydrated & didn't recommend sub Q. Wendy said it pushed her kitty into heart failure so that scared me. I started giving him CBD oil for inflammation & pain? Are cats in Pain all the time with Pancreatitis?

Ravan sleeps a lot & is drinking a ton of water.His BG is very high Especially at AMPS & PMPS I just increased dose to 1.5 last night.
I think he had an attack of Pancreatitis for the first time last week. didn't eat for nearly 24 hrs. Just slept.That's when I brought him in for Labs.

Ravan eats mostly a raw meat diet ( all his life) He's never had any dry food or even treats,ever!. I recently Bought some Low Phosphorus canned food also. He's very picky about canned food Most times he will not eat it. He's wanting Raw liver lately. My vet tells me to let him have it every day?

What do you think of giving him Turmeric/Curcumin for inflammation? Or Colostrum? I read some good thing about both. He also gets Omega 3 ,B-12 & Co Q10.

Yes I did read the Primer On Pancreatitis. I'll need to go over a few more times till it all sinks in!

I realize you are very busy , any help or advice you can provide I would appreciate very much!

 

As Sienne said yesterday, there is no guarantee that Levemir will reduce the bounces. There's a good chance Lev will help, as many do go flatter, but I can also point you to some bouncy Levemir spreadsheets. Having said that, I was happy I switched. You won't know until you try it.

New Dose Wonkiness, temporary higher numbers that often occur after an increase.

My point was that I would follow the vet's recommendations on fluids. I see too many people recommend fluids willy nilly, without knowing that there can be a down side.

 

@Wendy&Neko

BIG DROP +8 BG 179 should I give him some med carb food to slow it down? He's been eating Raw all day

Do you think Ringer sub Q once in a while would be good ,Help him to not be so thirsty?

My Vet has stated,I'm no expert on Diabetes" I told him I was on this forum & he seems to leave it up to me to figure things out!

 

@Judy and Boomer
@Bobbie And Bubba
Should i give Ravan some Med. carb to slow the drop down ? Or is it not going to make a difference? I just hate the Huge bounces & High BG!

 

No, I would not carb him up at upper blues.

As for fluids, ask your vet.

 

@Wendy&Neko

Ravan is doing one of his big drops BG 95 I assume I still shoot the increased dose 1.5 What can I expect for tonight? He is very difficult to bring up when he drops fast like this.

I thought it was good to slow the drop with food so He maybe won't bounce so much?

 

@Judy and Boomer

Is anyone out there? He was in yellow last night so he was already dropping. I'm concerned that if he goes real low he difficult to bring up. Last time he was at 35 it took 2 cans of FF gravy & 2 hours to see a climb

 

Yes, you still shoot

 

Your not shooting the preshot number, your shooting his nadir

 

You are actually shooting the onset, not nadir. You shot green on the 11th, and had a nice cycle.

 

Oops sorry @Wendy&Neko

 

I'm not worried about shooting It's getting him up if he goes too low!

 

Thank you and I’m sorry about your mom, as well.

I mainly pointed that out about the coconut oil for others reading this; I understood you weren’t giving it

I am also cautious about giving subq fluids and, in the past, when I’ve had a cat that was going to need them ongoing, I always have had an echocardiogram first to ensure the heart was healthy enough to take it. On a “once-in-a-while” basis, I’d follow the vet’s recommendation and express my concerns. You can also think about it in terms of 1 tsp fluid = 5 mls of fluid so if you are thinking along the lines of giving 50 mls of LRS (lactated Ringer’s), you can ask yourself first if you can get an additional 10 tsp of water into your cat orally in his food, etc. It depends on how soupy he’s willing to eat the food; usually raw has a higher moisture rate anyway but when I make my raw cat food, I always add a lot more water than the recipe calls for. If you do that and also add extra with each meal, you might be getting a lot more fluid into him naturally.

I’ve read much of the info on turmeric and curcumin that is available currently and, for me, it’s not worth the risk since most of the info is anecdotal. As with many herbs, especially those from China, the purity of the product is of great concern. If you work with an holistic vet that has a product they have used in cats with great results and they know the purity of it, than I believe the risks are less. I’ve not used colostrum either and I don’t know much about using it but I have heard others have used it. I wouldn’t feed raw liver every day; you risk Vitamin A toxicity.

Typically it won’t. If someone is giving subq fluids every day for, say CKD, the kitty might drink less water. But an occasional treatment with LRS would not likely result in diminishing him being thirsty.

 

Test again, see what is happening to the numbers. If you wait too long without feeding, he may drop more.

I couldn't agree more with what Marje is saying on fluids. Getting Ravan to a dose where he sees more green and learns not to bounce so much will do wonders for how thirsty he is feeling. Go after the root of the problem. If you skip tonight, he'll be at the water bowl again soon.

 

Nice PMPS!

 

@Wendy&Neko

Skip What tonight?

 

That sure didn't last long? 95 to 258 He's done the same thing before On 6/27 96 to 223