? 7/27 Gobbles- AM 144 PM 134 **DIAGNOSED with CHF**

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TheBowHuntress

TheBowHuntress

Member Since 2012
Hi everyone, it has been QUITE a while since I posted. Anyways, my 15 yr old Gobbles had FD from 11/12 to 5/13 (went OTG via Lantus protocol) and back on Lantus 2/15 to present....his dose is 1 DROP every 12 hours. This past Monday, I picked him up and he was panting then peed on me. I went right to the vet who detected a Gallop rhythm. His labs were OK, only out of range tests were BUN 40 (creatinine 1.6), ALT 105. His urine (has been peeing a lot for a while and also drinks a lot) is VERY dilute with no sugar present. Yesterday, he had an Echocardiogram: results are active congestive heart failure. He was prescribed lasik 6.25 mg 2x per day. Today his respirations are between 32 and 48--is 48 very high? No panting since Monday evening. No more walks on the leash. I moved his LB upstairs since it was in basement. Cardiologist said low sodium diet (getting an rx for Hills), and follow up in 2 weeks HOWEVER she said she canmot give me a "time table" on survival times. Does Lasik have any effect on Lantus and/or diabetes? Any over the counter canned foods which are low sodium? Anyone have experience with this? I feel absolutely totally helpless and my heart is broken. He was at the vet in March because his appy was not good. He was prescribed Cyproheptadine 2x day. So he is now on lasik, lantus and the cypro. BJ mentioned fish oil and vitamin e, so i will look into that. Any help, advice, experience VERY MUCH APPRECIATED☺
 
Hi Kat, sorry for the diagnosis. :bighug: Neko also got CHF. As for low sodium, it is possible to get low carb, low sodium commercial food. I also had to do low phosphorus. Tanya's site has a listing of sodium, as well as carbs for most US canned food. I mostly did raw, until she decided she didn't want it anymore. Is Gobbles getting an antinausea medicine? You don't want to give an appy stim like cypro unless you know you have addressed the nausea issue. Ondansetron or Cerenia are good options for nausea. Cerenia if any vomiting. Ondansetron worked well for Neko. Of course she threw lymphoma in the mix too and the chemo caused nausea, but it was the nausea from the heart disease which sent her into the vet. It was giving fluids for her kidneys that caused her heart crisis.

Neko did take Lasix, in liquid form. But just a little, cause Lasix is dehydrating and not good for kidney kitties. @Doodles & Karen Doodles took Lasix for a quite a while, and in rather larger doses. Is the Lasix you have in pill, liquid or injection format? Karen noticed a difference between injection and pills and it's impact on the BG. Liquid did not impact Neko's BG. Neko had 6 months after her CHF diagnosis, though it actually went away for her while and I never knew whether it was the kidneys, lymphoma, or heart that did her in.

As for respiration rate, take it when Gobbles is resting. Ideally you want it under 30.

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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I'm very sorry about the CHF dx for Gobbles. It's very hard to have a heart kitty :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

Doodles dx of advanced HCM and recurring CHF came March 2016. He wasn't a good eater to begin with but hindsight says it was likely his heart much longer then before the dx. He was never put on nausea meds and once the CHF was controlled he did eat better. I took his RR as Wendy mentioned above every day sometimes more then once. His initial dose was 6.25 mg twice a day and quickly his dose kept going and reached 30mg Lasik twice a day for almost 6 months. Sometimes I'd have to do "emergency" triple dosing (30mg every 8 hours for 3 days) . We did this to knock down suspected fluid buildup instead of tapping. I called the cardiologist often and Doodles seen them every 2-3 months unless there were symptoms then we went. Doodles had developed asthma on top of it and was coughing. CHF cats don't cough according to his cardiologist. We couldn't treat the asthma and it got so bad we set him free just shy of 1 year from the HCM/CHF dx. In the beginning we were giving Lasix via injection and yes it clearly raised his BG significantly and he was already stuck in red/black at the time. When we switched to the compounded chewables that stopped the major spikes. There can be a moderate interaction with Lasik & Lantus where it can lesson the effect of Lantus but ECID of course. Doodles also had IAA so at best we achieved better numbers but wouldn't call it regulation.

Once we got the Lasik on board I will say he had pretty good QOL for that last year. Lots of vines and prayers for you both.
 
Hi, Kat. I'm sorry that Gobbles is presenting you with another challenge. With good medication management, CHF is treatable. It won't go away but you can keep Gobbles comfortable. In addition to keeping the sodium low, you may want to be careful with water. In humans with CHF, fluids are rather are strictly limited. I'm guessing your adding fluid to Gobbles food. If you, you may want to cut back a bit. I'd ask the cardiologist about whether you need to limit Gobbles fluids.
 
I'm sorry about the diagnosis. You've received some good information. I hope it helps you balance everything out and help Gobbles feel better. Sending prayers. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I forgot to include that on monday the vet (not Gobbles' vet--he was off that day and we saw a different vet)--gave him 200 ml subQ for dehydration-- i am sure that certainly did not help and probably, on Wednesday when echo was done, he still had some of that fluid in him!!!
 
It took a couple weeks of Neko getting 100ml fluids daily for her kidney disease, for it to build up to the point of heart failure but ECID and depends on their heart condition.

Has Gobbles been seen by a cardiologist?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hi Kat, sorry for the diagnosis. :bighug: Neko also got CHF. As for low sodium, it is possible to get low carb, low sodium commercial food. I also had to do low phosphorus. Tanya's site has a listing of sodium, as well as carbs for most US canned food. I mostly did raw, until she decided she didn't want it anymore. Is Gobbles getting an antinausea medicine? You don't want to give an appy stim like cypro unless you know you have addressed the nausea issue. Ondansetron or Cerenia are good options for nausea. Cerenia if any vomiting. Ondansetron worked well for Neko. Of course she threw lymphoma in the mix too and the chemo caused nausea, but it was the nausea from the heart disease which sent her into the vet. It was giving fluids for her kidneys that caused her heart crisis.

Neko did take Lasix, in liquid form. But just a little, cause Lasix is dehydrating and not good for kidney kitties. @Doodles & Karen Doodles took Lasix for a quite a while, and in rather larger doses. Is the Lasix you have in pill, liquid or injection format? Karen noticed a difference between injection and pills and it's impact on the BG. Liquid did not impact Neko's BG. Neko had 6 months after her CHF diagnosis, though it actually went away for her while and I never knew whether it was the kidneys, lymphoma, or heart that did her in.

As for respiration rate, take it when Gobbles is resting. Ideally you want it under 30.

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Hi Wendy, i don't think he was nauseous when rx'd cypro back in March...just didn't want to eat. The Lasik is in pill form, 6.25 mg twice a day. Hindsight: perhaps heart disease was causing lack of appy back in March. I'm going to withhold the cypro today and see how his appy is. This a.m. after eating, respiration was 36. I just gave him the lasik and will recheck it in a few hours.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
His initial dose was 6.25 mg twice a day and quickly his dose kept going and reached 30mg Lasik twice a day for almost 6 months. Sometimes I'd have to do "emergency" triple dosing (30mg every 8 hours for 3 days) . We did this to knock down suspected fluid buildup instead of tapping....There can be a moderate interaction with Lasik & Lantus where it can lesson the effect of Lantus but ECID of course.
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Hi Karen, did the vet keep increasing Doodle's lasik dose? How did you know when to "triple dose"? I've read that there can be some very serious lasik side effects if kitty is over-dosed. As far as tapping, I do not like the sound of it, but read where some people are getting their pets tapped often...i see no reason to continue tapping if he starts to keep filling up with fluids...i am assuming the way you would know tbat kitty needs tapping would be because breathing is very labored? I think will not have him tapped, more than one time. So far, lasik has not affected his BG.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Hi, Kat. I'm sorry that Gobbles is presenting you with another challenge. With good medication management, CHF is treatable. It won't go away but you can keep Gobbles comfortable. In addition to keeping the sodium low, you may want to be careful with water. In humans with CHF, fluids are rather are strictly limited. I'm guessing your adding fluid to Gobbles food. If you, you may want to cut back a bit. I'd ask the cardiologist about whether you need to limit Gobbles fluids.
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Hi Sienne, He is getting an rx for Hills Prescription (low sodium)--i requested pates and one gravy. As for water: I can tell his thirst is due to diuretic, but don't I risk dehydration by strictly limited water? He has been having large urine output for months now. And yes I do water his canned food. I will ask his vet.
 
Hi Kat. I'm sorry about Gobbles new diagnosis.
TheBowHuntress said:
The vet who did the Echo specializes in Cardio. At the practice he goes to, there are several vets, and each has one or two specialties.
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I would ask your questions to the vet specializing in cardiology. Do you think this cardio vet is good? I'm just asking because I took J.D. to a board certified cardiologist, and I don't know if there is a difference, or if you would want a second opinion.
 
Dyana said:
I would ask your questions to the vet specializing in cardiology. Do you think this cardio vet is good? I'm just asking because I took J.D. to a board certified cardiologist, and I don't know if there is a difference, or if you would want a second opinion.
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Hi Dyana, as to her credentials, I read this at the vet website: "After graduating from The Ohio State University in 2004, she completed a Small Animal Medicine and Surgery internship followed by a Cardiology Internship. Her special interests include Cardiology, Ultrasonography, and Soft Tissue Surgery."
 
TheBowHuntress said:
did the vet keep increasing Doodle's lasik dose
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Yes, I was always in touch with the cardiologist. Doodles HCM got worse at every check-up which was the root cause of the recurring CHF. The dose was raised on symptoms ie rapid breathing/coughing/appetite/ BG's or follow up x-rays. Doodles was also 18lbs so a big boy. Lasik tends to be hard on their kidneys but somehow Doodles kidney's held up pretty good (he was only 9yrs old). Certainly follow your vets treatment plan.
 
TheBowHuntress said:
but don't I risk dehydration by strictly limited water?
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I never restricted Doodles water and always added water to his food. The cardiologist never advised to restrict water but of course you don't want to give fluids unless under close supervision of the vet. Doodles drank a ton of water and also peed a lot. By peeing they are expelling the salt out of their body which is a good thing. Lasix hits their system quickly and slowly fades over hours. You may see Goobbles drink more in the first few hours of giving his dose.
 
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